The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado. Present were Calvino Rabeni and Zen Arado

Addicted to Learning:

Zen Arado: Hi Cal
Calvino Rabeni: Good day Zen :)
Calvino Rabeni: How are learning projects going ?
Zen Arado: hmmm
Zen Arado: trying to give p so much learning
Zen Arado: think I am addicted to learning
Calvino Rabeni smiles
Calvino Rabeni: Same here
Zen Arado: was going to do a computer course but didn't get a place
Calvino Rabeni: No doubt we'd be able to find an extensive literature to study on the topic of "addiction to learning"
Zen Arado: it was oversubscribed
Zen Arado: ha ha yes
Zen Arado: I'll do a Ph D on it
Zen Arado: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Well my recent drug of choice has been Google Scholar, but I'm trying to get it under control again
Zen Arado: oh...you shouldn't have told me that
Zen Arado: I'll be on that too
Calvino Rabeni: Urp ...
Zen Arado: was listening to this guy lately
Zen Arado: Darryl Bailey
Calvino Rabeni: As a warning ... :) not that I recommend anyone would actually do this .. but you can put nearly any reasonably academic book title into Google Scholar and get lists of related books and those that cite it and extend the ideas
Zen Arado: http://darrylbailey.net/
Calvino Rabeni: thanks ..
Zen Arado: would be great for research

Darryl Bailey ideas:

Calvino Rabeni: I don't get the notion of "false appearances"
Zen Arado: think he just means they aren't solid
Calvino Rabeni: but that's a truism?
Calvino Rabeni: sort of like "true facts"
Zen Arado: yeh but lots don't see that
Calvino Rabeni: based on a predefined definition of truth
Zen Arado: the bit I have trouble wit is the 'determinism'
Calvino Rabeni: And it sort of suggests there might be true appearances, or maybe, true non-appearances, ... ?
Zen Arado: it is all happening by itself
Calvino Rabeni: Determinism, eh?
Calvino Rabeni: That sort of implies lining things up and ordering them by a theory of causality
Zen Arado: 'It is all happening spontaneously. There is no question of you trying to do anything.'
Zen Arado: a Nisargadatta quote
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: it feels 'true'
Calvino Rabeni: He strikes me as a stylist, sort of making statements on the extreme side of things, perhaps for their effect?
Zen Arado: but it kinda absolves us of responsibility then
Calvino Rabeni: But it does bring up an interesting question
Calvino Rabeni: hmm, it's that there doesn't seem to be a "neutral" perspective in the sense of being without consequence and ontological commitment
Calvino Rabeni: in the sense of having ethical consequences and entailments
Zen Arado: no 'view from nowhere' you mean?
Calvino Rabeni: yes
Zen Arado: but maybe that's because we separate ourselves from the flow of life
Zen Arado: 'If we sit quietly, making no effort, life expresses itself clearly; it simply happens on its own. There’s nothing else to get. The great truth is obvious. The heart beats; the breath comes and goes. Vibrations, pulsations, twinges, feelings, thoughts, and emotions rise and fall. Urges rise and pass; some become actions, others do not; and so life flows.'
Calvino Rabeni: it can't be done, it's a posture
Calvino Rabeni: So what does that perspective entail?
Zen Arado: but that's the way we think isn't it
Zen Arado: ?
Zen Arado: why does it entail anything?
Zen Arado: it just is the way it is
Calvino Rabeni: everything entails, in the web of codependent arising
Calvino Rabeni: no one gets to sit on an island
Zen Arado: something lke that
Zen Arado: feels like a loss of control
Calvino Rabeni: the heart beats, the waters flow, the self selfs
Zen Arado: and a loss of responsibility
Calvino Rabeni: yes very possibly
Zen Arado: in one of his talks he describes a baby in the womb
Zen Arado: it doesn't think 'my 9 months is nearly up, I better get ready to be born'
Calvino Rabeni: no, but maybe ... I gotta get outta here!
Calvino Rabeni: dunno why :)
Zen Arado: :)
Zen Arado: it all just happens
Calvino Rabeni: it may happen with intentionality
Calvino Rabeni: intentionality might be an intrinsic part of the "just happening"
Zen Arado: a new born baby just sees everything flowing around it
Zen Arado: but then it is taught symbols and labels
Calvino Rabeni: who knows ... that's speculative, and insofar as we can find ways to know, there's evidence to contradict that idea
Calvino Rabeni: Actually .. sorry I don't have time to get into that right now
Calvino Rabeni: I need to fly
Zen Arado: well it hasn't got the conceptual tools yet
Zen Arado: ok np
Zen Arado: ty for stopping by
Calvino Rabeni: Take care .. be well
Calvino Rabeni: Bye :)
Zen Arado: you too
Zen Arado: bye Cal