2011.07.10 01:00 - Observers, Testability, Alts and Permissions

Eliza posted this session...

[01:06] Yakuzza Lethecus: morgen wol
[01:06] Wol Euler: morgen yaku
[01:06] Wol Euler: alles in ordnung?
[01:07] Yakuzza Lethecus: ja, alles normal
[01:07] Wol Euler: gut :)
[01:07] Yakuzza Lethecus: just about to grab my 4th cup of coffee :P
[01:08] Wol Euler: working on my first :)
[01:08] Wol Euler: cheers!
[01:13] Wol Euler: hello qt
[01:14] Qt Core: Hi all

[01:14] Yakuzza Lethecus: actually last week when you mentioned to have a conversation with a sociologist, the question on testebility came to my mind, in how far does to notion that we have to be aware that everyone can be everything and even researchers can be behind every corner influence mesurements for sociolotists

[01:14] Yakuzza Lethecus: hey qt
[01:14] Wol Euler: good questions :)
[01:14] Wol Euler: being observed changes what we do, sure
[01:14] Wol Euler: a *good* sociologist is aware of that too, and makes it explicit
[01:15] Qt Core: knowing about being observed ;-)
[01:16] Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning rhi
[01:16] Wol Euler: hello rhi
[01:16] Qt Core: hi Rhi
[01:16] Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Yaku
[01:16] Rhiannon Dragoone: Hello Wol
[01:16] Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Qt
[01:16] Qt Core: (thinking about people singing in their shower)
[01:17] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:17] Wol Euler: we have to trust that the people we interact with are not secretly observing us
[01:17] Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, people sing in the rain, at least Frank Sinatra did,so why not the shower?
[01:17] Wol Euler: just as in RL actually ...
[01:17] Wol Euler: market research types do secretly follow people around in stores (and museums!) seeing what they do
[01:18] Wol Euler: the sociologist I spoke to does that properly, "by teh book"
[01:18] Qt Core: but mostly they follow your fidelity cards and credit cards ;-)

[01:19] Wol Euler: before every interview she explicitly states that it *is* an interview, the subject of the interview, that my words will be recorded and possibly published, and asks for permission
[01:19] Wol Euler: and still does that even though we've now had 5 interviews together :)
[01:19] Rhiannon Dragoone: What does she interview people for, Wol?
[01:20] Wol Euler: primarily about gender and sexuality, how these are created and lived-out in virtual envorinments
[01:20] Wol Euler: *environments
[01:20] Rhiannon Dragoone: Wow. That's an interesting topic
[01:20] Wol Euler: and how they possibly feed back into RL
[01:20] Wol Euler: yeah :)
[01:20] Wol Euler: the interaction between RL and SL is very interesting

[01:20] Rhiannon Dragoone: Well,I have more insights into guys from having been one here i sL
[01:21] Wol Euler: yep :)
[01:21] Rhiannon Dragoone: I don't completely trust them yet, but I'm more open from experiencing what they do.
[01:21] Wol Euler: walking in their shoes, as it were
[01:21] Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah
[01:21] Wol Euler: it's odd and intriguing how well that works!
[01:21] Rhiannon Dragoone: It sure is; it's amazing.

[01:22] Rhiannon Dragoone: And you're less envious; there's a sim admin/discussion leader who fawns over men, and takes them seriously, no matter how stupid they are, but is disdainful toward women; I'm less jealous of that knowing that I could come as a male, and even if she knew it was me, she would treat me differently.
[01:22] Wol Euler nods.

[01:23] Rhiannon Dragoone: In fact, I'm tempted to go to her events as a guy, but although I didn't promise the other admin I wouldn't use more than one alt, he is liking Huntress, and I'm thinking I should stay as her.
[01:24] Qt Core: don't get all this, maybe i overthink things but can't really get how i would act differently in a female form here il sl
[01:24] Wol Euler: try it and see :)
[01:24] Wol Euler: I didn't think I would feel differently in the other gender *either*
[01:24] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:24] Rhiannon Dragoone: Qt, well a lot of men don't, and you develop "guydar," because of that. But try assertin yourself the ways guys do, only to be called pushy, or a bitch. You'll change.
[01:25] Wol Euler: yes, people make you change, for good or bad
[01:25] Rhiannon Dragoone: I feel different as the other gender, but I'm still me, *I* think I am, anyway.
[01:26] Wol Euler: one thing some guys have said is that it makes them aware of their male "privilege"
[01:26] Wol Euler: the automatic power and authority that they have
[01:26] Wol Euler: or took without thinking
[01:26] Rhiannon Dragoone: Yeah, I've noticed that I have male privilege when I'm a guy.
[01:26] Qt Core: then there is laziness, about making another avatar, ;-)
[01:26] Wol Euler: yep
[01:26] Wol Euler: well, qt, that is a differnt matter :)
[01:26] Rhiannon Dragoone: Qt, lol; well, you can have one made
[01:26] Wol Euler: but if you make an alt, the new default avs are very much better than when we were newborn
[01:26] Wol Euler: they look good
[01:26] Rhiannon Dragoone: I have one custom made; it was supposed to look like Clint Eastwood, but doesn't
[01:26] Rhiannon Dragoone: He's handsome, though.
[01:27] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:27] Wol Euler: brb, coffee and aspirins needed
[01:27] Rhiannon Dragoone: Maybe I should come here sometimes as him; when Cal isn't around.
[01:28] Wol Euler nods.
[01:28] Wol Euler: as long as he was naked, we'd recognize him :-P
[01:28] Rhiannon Dragoone: It's just that Cal wants me authentic
[01:28] Rhiannon Dragoone laughs
[01:28] Qt Core: i may just wear the burka and pretend to be a female av... that would be quick and easy !
[01:28] Wol Euler wonders what that word means
[01:28] Wol Euler: no, qt, that would not work
[01:28] Wol Euler: the avatar makes the experience, trust me on this
[01:29] Rhiannon Dragoone: I have to laugh at that, as at Philosphy House, there was a guy who always went naked; so when I first showed up, people were convinced I was his alt.
[01:29] Qt Core: :)
[01:29] Wol Euler chuckles.
[01:29] Rhiannon Dragoone: Yeah, you have to have the other gender; you'djust be a guy in a burka, a cross dresser, if you did that.
[01:29] Wol Euler: yep
[01:30] Rhiannon Dragoone: People would still treat you like a guy, maybe a degenerate guy, if they're intolerant, but a guy noneheless
[01:30] Qt Core: how would they know ?
[01:30] Wol Euler: the point is, you would know :)
[01:31] Rhiannon Dragoone: Your form would show, Qt; a burka doesn't hid it.
[01:31] Rhiannon Dragoone: And even if you had a female AO (which is a groteque thaought btw), you would reveal your masculine form.

[01:32] Qt Core: in the end i think that (for me) the answer to the gender issues (at least in sl) is my cube form, perfectly genderless... or you thing the cube male and a sphere female ?
[01:32] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:32] Wol Euler: good question

[01:32] Rhiannon Dragoone: Qt, well, interestingly enough, I have a Platonic Solid avatar, but as it has my name, people still think of it as female.
[01:33] Wol Euler: it still might feel different if you thought that the person in that cube was male or female.
[01:33] Wol Euler: certainly the world would not know
[01:33] Rhiannon Dragoone: One friend's kid was seeing me on the screen and asking "Why is the lady a geometric solid?"
[01:33] Qt Core: yes, your friends would know that
[01:34] Rhiannon Dragoone: I mean I suuppose I could get the guy who made it to give me another copy and create an alt, and have Antonio come here, and that would make it a male experience.
[01:34] Qt Core: (luckily people lnw my name as male, if not it's wrong pronunciation as cutie would raise many problems) ;-)
[01:34] Wol Euler: heheh
[01:34] Qt Core: lmk=know
[01:34] Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, but you *are* a cutie, Qt.
[01:35] Rhiannon Dragoone pinches Qt's cheek
[01:35] Qt Core: but it wasn't my idea when getting that name
[01:35] Rhiannon Dragoone: What was your idea?
[01:35] Rhiannon Dragoone: Rasima! hi!
[01:37] Rhiannon Dragoone: You're hiding behind the pole, Ras; just like I do
[01:37] Rhiannon Dragoone: ok
[01:37] Wol Euler: hello zon
[01:37] Zon Kwan: hey all
[01:37] Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Zon!
[01:37] Qt Core: Hi Zon
[01:39] Rhiannon Dragoone: We're talking experiencing the opposite gender here in SL
[01:40] Zon Kwan: ah
[01:40] Zon Kwan: i like the opposite
[01:40] Rhiannon Dragoone: I do feel strange when I'm naked as a guy; kind of all dangly
[01:40] Wol Euler: do you have a female av? I can'
[01:41] Wol Euler: I can't remember
[01:41] Zon Kwan: nope
[01:41] Zon Kwan: i am a man
[01:41] Wol Euler: and ...?
[01:41] Zon Kwan: lol
[01:41] Yakuzza Lethecus: hi zon
[01:41] Wol Euler: seriously
[01:41] Wol Euler: you know, nearly all of the cats in SL are human in RL
[01:41] Rhiannon Dragoone: Wol, and the ravens
[01:42] Wol Euler: most of the robots are too
[01:42] Qt Core: you know some that isn't ?
[01:42] Qt Core: ;-)
[01:42] Wol Euler: I don't rule out the possibility :)=
[01:42] Zon Kwan: well i haven had the need yet to have a female avatar
[01:42] Rhiannon Dragoone: Iwent as a ravan to PRT, and although they knew it was me, they completely ignored me; I guess I experience 'human privilege,' and now know it from being a bird.
[01:43] Wol Euler: one does experience the world differently in a differnet form...
[01:43] Wol Euler: because the world treats one differenty
[01:43] Zon Kwan: nods..might wlee be so

[01:43] Qt Core: maybe before trying to be female i have to try some other (male) experiences here in sl, like wearing a ie ;-)
[01:43] Qt Core: tie
[01:43] Zon Kwan: lol
[01:44] Wol Euler: heheh
[01:44] Rhiannon Dragoone: heh
[01:44] Qt Core: i have only one in rl, from a clumsy tentative to give me a christmas gift
[01:44] Zon Kwan: i would guess a female avatar would be more hit than a male one
[01:45] Wol Euler: that is where it startts, yes :)
[01:45] Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, I went to blacheart's as a guy and was wondering why people weren't hitting on me. lol
[01:45] Zon Kwan: as a male one can be quite in peace if one wants to
[01:45] Rhiannon Dragoone: Until i realized, 'Oh, that's right.'
[01:46] Wol Euler: heheh
[01:46] Zon Kwan: perhaps its conditioned..see a female..hit
[01:46] Wol Euler: women are presumed to be available :(
[01:46] Rhiannon Dragoone: I have been verbally abused here in SL like in RL buy abusive guys who wouldn't do it to another guy.
[01:46] Zon Kwan: i heard french men are grown up like that
[01:46] Qt Core: i think my sexual expertience of sl was frozen after the second day here, i tped in a sm female dominated community...
[01:47] Zon Kwan: hope noone from france is here ?
[01:47] Rhiannon Dragoone: I know, because when they think I'm a male avi, they don't abuse that avi.
[01:47] Wol Euler: heheheh
[01:47] Wol Euler: did you stay, qt?
[01:47] Rhiannon Dragoone: Qt, sounds like a great place. What was the name of it, Qt?
[01:47] Zon Kwan: it is though of an insult if a man doesnt try to hit a woman
[01:47] Wol Euler: and not just frenchmen, zon, no way. males of all nations and cultures in my experience
[01:48] Rhiannon Dragoone: You mean hit on a woman? Unfortunate lack of a preposition there
[01:48] Zon Kwan: it was in newspaper
[01:48] Qt Core: for the (long) time it toke me to understand what was happening there... you know at first was quite intruigued by the almost naked girls ;-)
[01:48] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:48] Rhiannon Dragoone: yes, I *notice* how you react to almost naked girls, Qt.
[01:48] Zon Kwan: mm
[01:48] Zon Kwan: its naturaö
[01:48] Rhiannon Dragoone: You too, Zon?
[01:48] Zon Kwan: nods nods
[01:48] Rhiannon Dragoone rolls her eyes
[01:49] Rhiannon Dragoone and restrains from jiggling
[01:49] Wol Euler: it's conditioned and taught
[01:49] Zon Kwan: i am a man..cant help it
[01:49] Zon Kwan: yes
[01:49] Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, poor thing; no control
[01:49] Wol Euler: many men *do* help it though
[01:49] Qt Core: after all as you teach to kids watch and don't touch... without asking first i may add
[01:49] Wol Euler: right
[01:49] Zon Kwan: its the game of life
[01:49] Zon Kwan: women know how to play it
[01:49] Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, we do, eh?
[01:49] Zon Kwan: men usually dont as they r more stupid
[01:50] Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
[01:50] Wol Euler: let's say they are more intensely focussed
[01:50] Wol Euler grins.
[01:50] Zon Kwan: lol
[01:50] Rhiannon Dragoone puts her hand under her chin, juts her chest out a litle, and bats her eyelashes at Zon
[01:50] Zon Kwan: mm
[01:50] Wol Euler: whereas women try to figure out what is going on
[01:50] Rhiannon Dragoone: Don't know what you're talking about, honey.
[01:50] Zon Kwan: mm..i thinks so..smiles
[01:50] Rhiannon Dragoone: But I'm just a girl, and you're sooo smart.
[01:50] Zon Kwan: lol
[01:50] Zon Kwan: exactly
[01:51] Wol Euler throws a cushion at rhi
[01:51] Rhiannon Dragoone: Lmao!
[01:51] Qt Core: that too... how i could even try to imitate a girl ? ;-)
[01:51] Zon Kwan: those eylashes drive me grazy...
[01:51] Wol Euler: it's not immitation, qt, that is the amazing thing
[01:52] Wol Euler: it is not roleplay, not as such
[01:52] Rhiannon Dragoone gazes adoringly at Zon; her pupils catch the light in just the right wasy so she looks starry eyed.
[01:52] Wol Euler: okay, *that* is roleplay :-P
[01:52] Rhiannon Dragoone and ducks as Wol throws another cushion at her.
[01:53] Zon Kwan: /is cought up by the charm of that mysterious woman
[01:53] Rhiannon Dragoone takes out her red lipstick (never mind where she had it), does her lips, rolls them, and smacks, all the while ostentatiously *not* looking at Zon
[01:53] Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, I can't go on. lol

[01:53] Yakuzza Lethecus: by now i don´t believe most of the gender related topics in secondlife, everyone always knew that the genders are flipped, knowing tomboys in rl makes it even harder to have ,,the picture of how woman are" , i know some males of have the cutest avi´s in secondlife and i still find those cute but i can´t say that sl gender switches my opinion on avatars
[01:53] Zon Kwan: lol
[01:54] Rhiannon Dragoone: Yaku, how women are? Women are people who are treated, well, like women.
[01:54] Wol Euler nods.
[01:55] Qt Core: and in the end it is easier to treat avs like they seem to be just not to have to remember the underlying gender, if he/she isn't someone you speak daily
[01:55] Wol Euler: this business of gender and identity is an emergent property of virtual worlds. I very much doubt that Linden Lab thought "let's make a place where people can experience embodying in different genders and species"
[01:55] Wol Euler: right, qt, exactly right
[01:56] Rhiannon Dragoone: Qt, you can drive yourself crazy if you don't simply accept a person's presentation of self.
[01:56] Rhiannon Dragoone: And therapists say now, irl, that you're supposed to take the person's gender self-identification.
[01:56] Wol Euler: there is no reason to react to ahything but what you see IMHO
[01:56] Wol Euler nods.
[01:56] Rhiannon Dragoone: heh. Even this one person who is convinced I amm a guy treats me like a girl. She's the sim admin who hero worships guys.
[01:56] Qt Core: it is like the alt issue at large, use the name you see, not the one of thye main av, you don't know why he/she is here with the alt, for rp or for hiding from someone, maybe someone even present
[01:57] Wol Euler: yep
[01:57] Rhiannon Dragoone: Qt, yes, and I've noticed that when people use the main avatar's name, it's never for a nice purpose
[01:57] Wol Euler: yep
[01:57] Wol Euler: this is an interesting difference between SL and games like World of Warcraft
[01:57] Wol Euler: people there often use RL names in stead of the av name
[01:58] Wol Euler: the avatars are seem as tools used by a RL person, not as identities
[01:58] Rhiannon Dragoone: at a sim where I go as Huntress, I was called Rhia, and next time it happens, I'll call the cuy Sunny. His name is Sunfire, and he *hates* being called Sunny.
[01:58] Qt Core: (i may betray my own decision as i refuse to use the how are they called, the name you can change weekly?)
[01:58] Rhiannon Dragoone: So I'm armed and ready.
[01:58] Rhiannon Dragoone: Display name
[01:58] Wol Euler: or you could just enable display names :)
[01:58] Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, i think it's ok to call a person by his account name or his display name.
[01:58] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:58] Rhiannon Dragoone: I don't think there's any protocols about that yet; people are still adapting, and not everyone has the new viewers.
[01:59] Qt Core: no, no, i explicitly disabled them wol
[01:59] Rhiannon Dragoone: I call one person Ataraxia or Violet both, and she accepts both.
[01:59] Wol Euler: huh, why?
[01:59] Qt Core: with avs and title and titler it is already a big mess
[01:59] Zon Kwan: yhe question of identity is very interesting..we are waht we identify ourself to be
[01:59] Qt Core: avs=alts
[02:00] Wol Euler: but ... why care, qt?
[02:00] Rhiannon Dragoone: Zon, yes, alts raise the question of identiy, and gender changes raises the question as to whether gender is part of youor essence.
[02:00] Wol Euler: why not just use the name that you see?
[02:00] Rhiannon Dragoone: I always took for granted that I was a girl, but now, I see I am a spirit who is embodied as a girl.
[02:00] Zon Kwan: essence has no gender..only identity has
[02:01] Wol Euler: right
[02:01] Wol Euler: to both :)
[02:01] Rhiannon Dragoone: essence is identity, the way I was using it.
[02:01] Rhiannon Dragoone: Aristotelian sense
[02:01] Zon Kwan: to me there is a difference
[02:01] Rhiannon Dragoone nods
[02:01] Zon Kwan: identity changes
[02:01] Qt Core: it feel fake, if you change alts you "deserve" a new name, otherwise you don't (i'm complicated like that)
[02:01] Yakuzza Lethecus: Actually often i wonder why there are so many ppl talking about ,,disrespect" so they bring a judgement in a debate but aren´t telling the exact situation. Like mentioning disrespectfulness of woman is something everyone would agree upon is a bad thing. So tthere is often not a lot of flesh but opinions that serve some standpoints. Well that´s very often my feeling at least.
[02:02] Rhiannon Dragoone: Qt, well what about this? When I gave birth to my alt, Huntress, I wanted a last name connected with the Moon. I chose Selenium as the closest; her display name, though is "Huntress Selene."
[02:02] Rhiannon Dragoone: The name I wanted.
[02:02] Rhiannon Dragoone: Some people put their rl name as their display name.
[02:03] Wol Euler: though vefry few :)
[02:03] Rhiannon Dragoone: Dar does that; his rl name is Doug, and that's his display name.
[02:03] Qt Core: interesting use of a silly feature ;-)
[02:03] Wol Euler: amusingly the Lab thought taht would be the case, that we would all rush to have our RL names as display names. Wrong!
[02:03] Zon Kwan: ppl change their rl names too
[02:03] Rhiannon Dragoone: A guy I know who masqueraded as a girl, his account name is Andromeda (fem.) but his display name is "Andrew."
[02:03] Zon Kwan: oftne when married
[02:03] Wol Euler: true
[02:03] Wol Euler: and also generally, all the time
[02:04] Wol Euler: the guys you play football with on the weekend probably don't call you the same thing your wife does
[02:04] Wol Euler: right?
[02:04] Rhiannon Dragoone: heh. There was a guy whose display name was "Penis," he changed it though when people said it fit him well.
[02:04] Qt Core: so two alt genders two display names gender for possibility of confusion ;-)
[02:04] Yakuzza Lethecus: Well, it was very expensive to have a userspecific display name, on for example science talks the speakers can just ,,use their real name".
[02:04] Yakuzza Lethecus: wasn´t it like 800$ in the past ?
[02:04] Qt Core: and two rl, so 8 really
[02:04] Wol Euler: plus the many varieties of inter-gender or neuter
[02:04] Rhiannon Dragoone: Time for me to go.
[02:05] Wol Euler: bye rhi, sleep well
[02:05] Yakuzza Lethecus: night rhi
[02:05] Rhiannon Dragoone: ty, Wol
[02:05] Zon Kwan: nigt beautiful rhi
[02:05] Qt Core: bye Rhi
[02:05] Rhiannon Dragoone: night Yaku
[02:05] Rhiannon Dragoone: bye Qt
[02:05] Rhiannon Dragoone: nite, handsome Zon
[02:05] Zon Kwan: mmm
[02:05] Rhiannon Dragoone waves and poofs
[02:06] Qt Core: as nowadays you choose only your "first name" i may end up being able to make an alt (i spent several hours in the past trying to get a good name with no success)
[02:07] Wol Euler: same thing still applies, though, the first names must be unique
[02:07] Qt Core: and good
[02:07] Wol Euler: that was one of the reasons for display names, so that there could be hundreds of "mike smith"s
[02:08] Qt Core: (wors feature of display names ever)
[02:08] Qt Core: t
[02:08] Wol Euler: I think it was a red herring, it was a total misunderstanding of the way that people *in* SL see their identities
[02:08] Wol Euler: the Lab had no idea what it is like to live in SL
[02:09] Qt Core: it is a source of tons of drama if not worst for unsavvy people
[02:09] Wol Euler nods.
[02:10] Qt Core: can one use "Linden" in display names ?
[02:10] Wol Euler: no
[02:10] Wol Euler: amusingly enough
[02:10] Wol Euler: they stated that duplicate display names would cause no confusion, but they won't allow that.
[02:11] Qt Core: so they know something about their business ;-)
[02:11] Wol Euler: obvious fail
[02:11] Qt Core: double underline under their
[02:12] Wol Euler: heheheheh
[02:12] Wol Euler: mind you don't get banned for that.
[02:12] Qt Core: ok, disregard my last two sentences
[02:12] Yakuzza Lethecus: well it´s an l instead of an i
[02:13] Wol Euler: indeed
[02:13] Wol Euler: and nonetheless...
[02:13] Qt Core: evil clever yaku
[02:13] Yakuzza Lethecus: but since Linden is so popular our mind will filter that out
[02:13] Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, lovely
[02:13] Yakuzza Lethecus: can´t change till next week off course
[02:14] Wol Euler: yep
[02:14] Zon Kwan: gtg, see ya
[02:14] Wol Euler: be zon, take care
[02:14] Yakuzza Lethecus: take care zon
[02:14] Qt Core: bye zon
[02:15] Wol Euler: *bye
[02:16] Qt Core: i wonder why you have to be part of a group to have a title, why you can't just gave you one (i found them interesting/funny ... when they are so)
[02:16] Wol Euler: well, you could wear a "titler" prim
[02:16] Wol Euler: people who roleplay combat often do that, for example
[02:16] Qt Core: yes, but it is different
[02:16] Wol Euler: true
[02:17] Wol Euler: you could make your own group :)
[02:17] Wol Euler: and invent your own titles
[02:17] Qt Core: (one of the few reason for making alts)
[02:17] Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, you need a second avatar for a group
[02:17] Wol Euler: yep
[02:17] Qt Core: alts are created, make or they just sprouts ?
[02:18] Wol Euler: heheh, created I'd say
[02:19] Qt Core: agreed, just a silly q that flashed in my mind
[02:19] Qt Core: saw a image from mithology about full formed gods coming out from Jupiter like athena if i remember it right
[02:20] Wol Euler: that is slightly different here, the avatar as body and image forms at once, but the alt as personality takes a while to develop
[02:20] Wol Euler: as do our identities in RL
[02:21] Qt Core: and when it is formed it start to change, so no stop or stability
[02:21] Wol Euler: when you go back to the bowling alley for teh fourth time and the guy at the desk recognizes you, then you have made a new identity as "the qt who bowls"
[02:21] Qt Core: or better immobility
[02:21] Wol Euler: just like RL:)
[02:21] Wol Euler: no stability there either :)
[02:22] Qt Core: it would be so easier...
[02:23] Qt Core: time to go, the not yet roastet roast is claiming my attention
[02:23] Wol Euler: heheh
[02:23] Wol Euler: have a good day, qt, and cooki well
[02:23] Yakuzza Lethecus: bye qt
[02:23] Qt Core: bye all, have fun
[02:24] Yakuzza Lethecus: have a great sunday and week everyone
[02:24] Wol Euler: bye yaku
[02:24] Wol Euler: bye recorder!