2011.05.05 13:00 - dream yoga and going off the rails

The Guardian for this meeting was Lia Rikugun. The comments are by Lia Rikugun.

Qt Core: Hi Lia
Lia Rikugun: hi qt how are you doing?
Qt Core: quite good, you ?
Lia Rikugun: good and tired :)
Lia Rikugun: so what would you like to talk about?
Qt Core: don't know, do you have a topic to suggest
Lia Rikugun: hm

dream yoga

Lia Rikugun: i started to read a book about dream yoga
Lia Rikugun: do you have any experience?
Qt Core: yoga very little, but connecting yoga and dreams no
Lia Rikugun: oh
Qt Core: it is about doing yoga in dreams... many positions would be easyer ;-)
Lia Rikugun: haha
Lia Rikugun: i think it is a little different
Qt Core: hi Bruce
Qt Core: and hi Alfred
Alfred Kelberry: wuff!
Lia Rikugun: not too much concentrating on the body in the dream but a state of awareness
Lia Rikugun: hi everybody!
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Lia Rikugun: we just started to talk about dream yoga
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Lia, and QT, and woofer dog.
Alfred Kelberry: lia the cute tail :)
Lia Rikugun: i would be vrey interested if you had expereinces already
Alfred Kelberry: dream yoga?
Lia Rikugun: yeay all the cuties together ;)
Alfred Kelberry: when you fall asleep in an awkward pose? :)

do you see yourself in your dreams?

Qt Core: i rarely myself or my body or my body is prominent in my (few) dreams
Lia Rikugun: hehe
Lia Rikugun: qt i didnt understand
Qt Core: see
Lia Rikugun: ah
Lia Rikugun: :)
Qt Core: i was thinking about how much i see my self in my dreams
Lia Rikugun: so you experience the dream from your eyes view? qt
Alfred Kelberry: yes, indeed, qt. same here.
Qt Core: mostly, yes
Lia Rikugun: i am wondering, i dont really know, have to check tomorrow morning
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Qt Core: even when it is about how i look or how i'm clothed i "know" that, but don't see that
Alfred Kelberry: lia, be sure to check your tail in a dream :)
Lia Rikugun: hehe i will
Bruce Mowbray is envious of folks who remember their dreams.
Alfred Kelberry: qt, you need a mirror in a dream
Alfred Kelberry: so do i
Qt Core: that woulf quickly become a nightmare, alf ;-)
Lia Rikugun: you dont remember your dreams bruce?
Alfred Kelberry: :)

remembering dreams

Bruce Mowbray: i remember having the dreams - but not the content of the dream.
Bruce Mowbray: The emotional impact lingers, though.
Alfred Kelberry: bruce, i hardly ever remember them either
Bruce Mowbray wonders if he's actually a dog, dreaming.
Lia Rikugun: i think it can be practiced,
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Lia Rikugun: trying to remember every morning some bits, no?
Qt Core: the question is why one should
Lia Rikugun: yes thats true
Bruce Mowbray: Well, I once used a tape recorder to record every dream that had the power to wake me up.
Lia Rikugun: i dont know, just think its interesting right now, could change in a week :)
Alfred Kelberry: when i was a kid i hoped to see this or that in a dream, now i just fall asleep :)
Bruce Mowbray: and it was almost profound. . . the discoveries.
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray: but that was a long time ago. . . when i got a divorce.
Lia Rikugun: oh sorry bruce
Bruce Mowbray: np!
Bruce Mowbray: I dreamt of ocean liners that had been thrown onto shores...
Lia Rikugun: these were strongly emotional dreams?
Bruce Mowbray: and of motor cycles that refused to start - no matter how hard I tried...
Lia Rikugun: interesting
Bruce Mowbray: and of huge auditoriums where I was the only person seated...
Bruce Mowbray: So GLAD that those dreams are behind me now.
Bruce Mowbray ponders dream yoga....
Bruce Mowbray: and would like to hear more about it.
Lia Rikugun: i had a very short lucid dream afew days ago
Lia Rikugun: this was very interesting
Lia Rikugun: I was in my old school
Lia Rikugun: and i dont know what made me become aware that i am dreaming
Lia Rikugun: but suddenly it was clear
Lia Rikugun: and wow directly I was thinking what should I do,
Lia Rikugun: I saw my mother (who died)
Lia Rikugun: she told me I should do yoga :)
Lia Rikugun: then i woke up
Lia Rikugun: I got too excited
Lia Rikugun: she said should do yoga because it would help me with something
Lia Rikugun: but I dont remember
Lia Rikugun: well well tahts all
Lia Rikugun: sorry didnt want to interrupt the conversation
Bruce Mowbray: Did you do Yoga, then?
Lia Rikugun: no :(
Lia Rikugun: I woke up directly
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmmm.
Lia Rikugun: and i dindnt do it while being awake

becoming aware in your dreams, lucid dreaming

Qt Core: i think the only way i become aware in/about my dreams is when i feel they become too absurd, not bad, just too much absurd to stand them and i awoke
Lia Rikugun: so you directly woke up qt?
Lia Rikugun: hi darren
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Darren!
Qt Core: yes, usually it is also about the time to awoke, plus or minus half an hour
Lia Rikugun: we are talking about dream, lucind dreaming and dream yoga
Qt Core: hi Darren
Darren Islar: hey everyone :)
Bruce Mowbray: and Alfred and I have said that we don't remember our dreams very well.
Darren Islar: thanks for the info
Bruce Mowbray: and Lia has just recounted for us an amazing dream about her mother - recommening that she do Yoga.
Bruce Mowbray: recommending*
Darren Islar: your mother told you so in a dream, that is amazing
Qt Core: i think that i remind only the dreams i have just before awakening, absurd or not, for the others i remember only about having them
Lia Rikugun: it was a lucid dream
Lia Rikugun: the last moments were very short unforetunately
Lia Rikugun: qt you only wake up in the morning once or more often during the night?
Qt Core: in the morning
Lia Rikugun: oh wow
Lia Rikugun: deep sleeper :)
Qt Core: just sleep deprived ;-)
Darren Islar: well, the first hours you dont' seem to dream
Lia Rikugun: thats what I read too, soemthing like the 4 first hours
Bruce Mowbray wishes he were a deep sleeper -- Unfortunately, all it takes to wake him up if for the dog to turn over and scratch.
Bruce Mowbray: is for the dog*
Bruce Mowbray: sorry about that, Alfred.
Qt Core: i'm calld away, may or may not be back to continue this discussion
Darren Islar: I think boxy is afk for a moment
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Qt!
Lia Rikugun: bye qt
Darren Islar: ok, see you QT
Qt Core: bye all and as we say in italy... do golden dreams
Lia Rikugun: yeay you too!
Bruce Mowbray: I think Boxy has fallen asleep -- Perchance to dream?
Darren Islar: :))
--BELL--

stopping normal routines

Bruce Mowbray: I heard Ken McLeod at one of his podcast retreats tell a woman ther --
Bruce Mowbray: who did yoga regularly --
Bruce Mowbray: that she could do yoga at the retreat,
Bruce Mowbray: but only if she did it without moving.
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Alfred Kelberry: qt left
Darren Islar: wb boxy
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh! Boxy has awakened!
Alfred Kelberry: *takes his cushion*
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Lia Rikugun: heyhey boxy
Alfred Kelberry: nice hair, darren
Lia Rikugun: yes come closer to me :)
Darren Islar: thanks boxy :)
Alfred Kelberry: i wonder if i should let them grow like that :)
Darren Islar: hehehe
Lia Rikugun: what exactly did he mean by "without moving"?
Bruce Mowbray fears a shaggy dog story coming on.
Lia Rikugun: just yoga in the mind
Lia Rikugun: ?
Bruce Mowbray: He (Ken LcLeod) meant that she should not preoccupy herself with the normal routines of her life. . .
Darren Islar: or keeping the same position
Bruce Mowbray: but rather, to become part of the reat experience itself...
Bruce Mowbray: so, to do her Yoga as part of the method that the retreat was practicing.
Alfred Kelberry: he needn't to be so cryptic :)
Lia Rikugun: ah ok i see
Alfred Kelberry: made lia confused :)
Darren Islar: still puzzled
Lia Rikugun: hehe yes
Bruce Mowbray: puzzled?
Alfred Kelberry: maybe they do it on purpose
Alfred Kelberry: to leave you puzzled and wondering... even more :)
Bruce Mowbray: It was a very strict retreat -- among persons who had been with Ken for a long while. . .
Darren Islar: well, I know that things said by a teacher can have more layers
Bruce Mowbray: and he wanted them to concentrate on the purpose of the retreat -
Bruce Mowbray: not to abide by their normal routines in real life...
Darren Islar: and the yoga is the 'routine' here?
Bruce Mowbray: no --- ha ha -- the woman at the retreat wanted to do her normal Yoga routines at the retreat -
Bruce Mowbray: but Ken didn't want her to do them.
Alfred Kelberry: yes, bruce, but wouldn't it be easier to say it in these simple words? :)
Darren Islar: that's what I meant
Bruce Mowbray wonders what "simple words" are?
Darren Islar: falling back on known practices
Bruce Mowbray: yeah, Ken did not what her to do that -- falling back.
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Darren Islar smiles at the different meanings of 'falling back'
Bruce Mowbray: Retreatshave a special sort of "protected separation" -- or sometimes do.
Alfred Kelberry: rollback a transaction :)
Bruce Mowbray: Calvino would call that a "container."
Darren Islar nods
Alfred Kelberry: ah, a good word
Bruce Mowbray: and I suspect that Eos would have a similar word for it.
Bruce Mowbray: a parenthesis in our lives ---
Bruce Mowbray: through which to peek at the possibilities.
Darren Islar: retreats are meant to make space
Darren Islar: space we often don't feel in our daily lives
Alfred Kelberry: yes
Alfred Kelberry: time to live in the moment for a while
Darren Islar: and to explore some practices more
Bruce Mowbray: And yet, the purpose of the retreat seems to be to enhance our routines -- through something learned at the retreat -- or something experienced there.
Alfred Kelberry: yes, bruce
Darren Islar: yes :)
Darren Islar: it is like putting you back on the rails
Alfred Kelberry: practical approach of dharma :)
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh! Interesting image, Darren.
Darren Islar: strangly enough that combination is important
Darren Islar: you bind yourself going to a retreat

going off the rails...

Bruce Mowbray: or perhaps, to get us OFF our normal rails.
Darren Islar: doing the things they ask from you
Darren Islar: narrowing things down
--BELL--
Darren Islar: just to open up space :)
Darren Islar: let's say a different track :)
Bruce Mowbray: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: yeah. . .
Alfred Kelberry: bruce, i like off the rails concept
Bruce Mowbray: explorations.
Bruce Mowbray: I used to be a long-distance walker...
Bruce Mowbray: in my younger days.
Bruce Mowbray: would walk at least 200 miles on a trek. . .
Darren Islar: wow
Bruce Mowbray: and over and over I would get off the "path"
Darren Islar: :)
Lia Rikugun: wow tahts a lot
Bruce Mowbray: and surse myself for the disadvantages of being off my path.
Bruce Mowbray: but the...
Bruce Mowbray: I realoized it was the purpose of my hiking to get OFF of my path for another view.
Bruce Mowbray: realized*
Bruce Mowbray: GOSH -- all those typos!
Bruce Mowbray: did you understand my meaning?
Lia Rikugun: yes :)
Darren Islar: yes :)
Bruce Mowbray: ty,!
Darren Islar: I've done some hiking to, not that much though
Bruce Mowbray: Getting off the routine and predictable path is a challenge -- especially for one who likes to go the easy route.
Darren Islar: but even if you take the same path over and over again, it looks different every time
Bruce Mowbray: nice flat surfaces....
Darren Islar: :)
Bruce Mowbray: and then -- OMG! -- here are all of these HILLS....
Bruce Mowbray: so cursing myself for getting off the prescribed path. . .
Bruce Mowbray: but later, grateful for it.
Lia Rikugun: wow i like that image
Bruce Mowbray: You're so right -- Darren, about its looking different every time.
Darren Islar: hehehe
Bruce Mowbray: But I am often to asleep to notice it --
Bruce Mowbray: so I need to take a different path in order to wake up.
Darren Islar nods
Darren Islar: I know what you mean
Bruce Mowbray: Folks with more discipline that I do better. . .
Bruce Mowbray: than I*
Bruce Mowbray: I am SUCH a wanderer...
Bruce Mowbray: both of mind and of space.
Bruce Mowbray: I need structure -- really.
Bruce Mowbray is glad for Original Face group.
Darren Islar: with the word structure, me sees Bruce running around naked and screamin :)
Lia Rikugun: you think structure is important?
Bruce Mowbray LOVES to run around naked and scream -- and can do so every day at his hermitage and no one will notice.
Lia Rikugun: structure for your meditation? or structure for what?
Lia Rikugun: hehe :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, structure for my meditation,Lia.
Lia Rikugun: ok
Bruce Mowbray: I am yet a child with that.
Alfred Kelberry: nice bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: or perhaps an adolescent rebel. . .
Alfred Kelberry: i can't do that :)
Darren Islar grins
Lia Rikugun: :)
Bruce Mowbray: can't do what, Alfred?
Alfred Kelberry: running naked and scream
Bruce Mowbray: Oh. I'm sorry --- Do come to Ohio and I'll show you how.
Alfred Kelberry: hehe
Alfred Kelberry: i'd love to, bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: I once took a friend skinny-dipping in a nearby stream. . .
Bruce Mowbray: and it was like an epiphany for him.
Alfred Kelberry: who knows. maybe one day we'll do that :)
Bruce Mowbray: He did not realize that he could get naked except inside his house!
Alfred Kelberry: haha
Bruce Mowbray: so civilized!
Alfred Kelberry: your own ohio retreat :)
Bruce Mowbray: yeppers!
Darren Islar: :))
Lia Rikugun: so funny
Bruce Mowbray: My dog -- who is now actually dying - has NEVER been on leash. . .
Bruce Mowbray: and that's a good lesson for me, too.
Lia Rikugun: oh
Bruce Mowbray: Drop the leashes!
Alfred Kelberry: yes
Bruce Mowbray: I do not mean to make a jest of it -- but for the past few days, my RL has been teaching me how to let go. . .
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray: I think he knows he is letting go.
Lia Rikugun: my friends i will go to bed
Lia Rikugun: quite tired
Lia Rikugun: wish you all a nice day and night!
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks so much, Lia!
Darren Islar: see you Lia :)
Alfred Kelberry: is it wok right now?
Bruce Mowbray: and I shall go for a nice long walk....
Bruce Mowbray: OH WAIT it is time for WoK!@!!
Alfred Kelberry: with your dog? :)
Darren Islar: yeppers
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks for reminding me, Al!
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: i'll go see the wok
Bruce Mowbray: I am off to the Cafe!
Alfred Kelberry: this way!