2011.05.16 01:00 - Allowing silence in

The Guardian for this meeting was Wester Kiranov. The comments are by Wester Kiranov.

I had a lovely conversation and equally lovely silence with oO0Oo Resident, and later Bertram Jacobus shared a meditation with us. Alfred Kelberry came in when I had left already. At the very end a newbie came in, and Alfred did a fine job of introducing her to PaB - thanks, Boxy!

Wester Kiranov: hi oOo
oO0Oo Resident: hi Wester :)
--BELL--
oO0Oo Resident: Wester.. first of all.. ty for the spaciousness.. has felt relaxing and uncontrived.. I notice you have been on SL for a few years, and I wonder what now is most meaningful here for you.
Wester Kiranov: I am happy you like the space
Wester Kiranov: yes, it has been a while on SL, but I have spent most of that time here in the PaB pavillion
Wester Kiranov: I started at the kira cafe, and I have tried out some other places, but just sitting here, with the space, and the people that are all willing to allow space in, is the thing that makes it worth coming to SL
oO0Oo Resident nods .. mmm
Wester Kiranov: the talk here can be a vehicle for space and silence, and joy
oO0Oo Resident smiles and sits up a bit straighter
Wester Kiranov: :-)
oO0Oo Resident: that statement fills me with joy
Wester Kiranov: and that statement makes me smile
oO0Oo Resident: :-D
oO0Oo Resident: I sense that in RL.. places and things can become imbued with something that is a product of repetitive use. I wonder about virtual spaces.. the pavilion has been host to so many aspects of connection and sharing over time
Wester Kiranov: that's an interesting thought
Wester Kiranov: I don't go to enough other places in SL to really compare
Wester Kiranov: but I agree about the effect in RL
--BELL--
Wester Kiranov: I also feel the openness and birdsong of this place agree well with the openness and silence in PaB
oO0Oo Resident: agreed
Wester Kiranov: hi bertram
oO0Oo Resident: Halo Bertram :)
Bertram Jacobus: hi wester and sam ! :-)
Bertram Jacobus: oops
Bertram Jacobus: are you still here ? - did / do i disturb something ?
Wester Kiranov: I'm still here
Wester Kiranov: and undisturbed :-)
oO0Oo Resident: still here.. and your presence has always been nothing but comfortable and edifying
Bertram Jacobus: ty so much ... i just read a meditation description and ask myself whether you wouldn´t mind it if i would like or try to share the small text part about it (?) ...
oO0Oo Resident: wonderful.. for me yes
Bertram Jacobus: oh ty again. because of the time, i simply start with it
Bertram Jacobus: "when we look at our breathing -
Bertram Jacobus: we can look at it in the following way :
Bertram Jacobus: breathing in :
Bertram Jacobus: in the beginning - at the nose ...
Bertram Jacobus: in the middle - in our breast
Bertram Jacobus: in the end - in our stomach
Bertram Jacobus: breathing out :
Bertram Jacobus: in the beginning - in our stomach
Bertram Jacobus: in the middle - in our breast
Bertram Jacobus: at the end : at the nose ...
Bertram Jacobus: (that´s not wordly but as i understood the sense) ...
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: i hope, i wrote it understandable ...
Wester Kiranov: very understandable
oO0Oo Resident: yes.. very clear :) ty.. it is a helpful thing to read, and stimulates my curiosity about breathing
Bertram Jacobus: wonderful - ty again ! :-)
Wester Kiranov: I like the way it really focuses on the experience in the body
Bertram Jacobus: it´s from the meditation master ajahn chah and he says that would be a first method to meditate / watch the breathing ...
Wester Kiranov: yes, very good as a first method
Bertram Jacobus: he goes on then with other forms of focussing to the breath ...
Wester Kiranov: if you stay with it for a long time it might start to feel too directive
Bertram Jacobus: but I found those first words so wonderful, calming and so on - could and liked to practise it at once (!) ... :-)
oO0Oo Resident: good in the beginning.. the middle.. and the end.. ongoingly ;)
Bertram Jacobus: *agree*
oO0Oo Resident: I also began .. even as you were writing Bertram
Bertram Jacobus: that was the effort i felt as well as i found these words sam ...
oO0Oo Resident: effort as joy
Wester Kiranov: :-)
Bertram Jacobus: sry : effect i wanted to write
Wester Kiranov: ;-P
Bertram Jacobus: always these damned language problems ! ... :o)
Bertram Jacobus: but ty again very much both for having shared this with me and sry for my coming with it so late !
Wester Kiranov: what I find with this exercise: the focus on the stomach feels grounding, and that counters the lightness normally associated with the inbreath
Wester Kiranov: so that balances things a bit
Bertram Jacobus: interesting : so very much worked out, precised, detailled wester (!) ...
Wester Kiranov: the focus on the nose feels light, and that balances the grounding associated with outbreath
Bertram Jacobus: and what about the breast ? ;-)
Wester Kiranov: that's in the middle of both the inbreath and the outbreath, so the impression doesn't linger as much.
oO0Oo Resident nods
Bertram Jacobus: i see -
Bertram Jacobus: but my impression is, that everybody experiences all that with similarities to others but differences as well
Wester Kiranov: and the impression in the breat also is quite different in in and out, as it is either expanding or contracting
Bertram Jacobus: yes !
Wester Kiranov: and of course, these are just my impressions
Bertram Jacobus: did you also have some impressions sam which you could or would like to tell perhaps pls ? :-)
Bertram Jacobus: but i don´t want to push - so
Bertram Jacobus: sry pls if that feels so - and in that case
Wester Kiranov: i'm curious too :-)
Bertram Jacobus: pls simply do as it hasn´t been written ... ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: my experience - before wester desribed hers - was mostly peace and calmness ...
Bertram Jacobus: and i can wait ...
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: it´s so nice when one knows meditation because so one can do it always when phases of waiting occure ...

It was time for me to leave, but the conversation went on bit more.

Wester Kiranov: well, i actually have some rl things to do now
Wester Kiranov: so i have say bye, and thank you
Bertram Jacobus: okay wester - have a nice time ! ...
Wester Kiranov: namaste
oO0Oo Resident: nice sitting with you Wester.. ty
oO0Oo Resident: Wester's descriptions were for me articulate, and felt similar to my own.. Mentally.. I did begin to question the habit of my breathing.. as a comparison can arise between natural breathing, and kind of practicing with the three areas of the body. Sometimes.. It takes a while to relax my breath..
Bertram Jacobus: i see ... but it´s stressed sometimes that no artifical element should disturb the breathing ...
Bertram Jacobus: while other methods modify it ...
oO0Oo Resident: yes.. true
Bertram Jacobus: but the sheer fact of being aware of it - changes already something
Bertram Jacobus: one may even say - "a lot" ...
oO0Oo Resident: can you say what changes please?
Bertram Jacobus: the rhythm of breathing i meant
Bertram Jacobus: the depth
Bertram Jacobus: the breathing in a whole in a way -
Bertram Jacobus: at least this is my experience ...
oO0Oo Resident: agreed.. and would add perhaps.. something about the muscles themselves relaxing in ways that reveal body habits
Bertram Jacobus: may be because breathing is a quite subtile "thing" ...
Bertram Jacobus: and every influence makes so a quite big impact on it -
oO0Oo Resident nods
oO0Oo Resident: yes.. a close relationship between mind and soft front of body, and breath
Bertram Jacobus: and so - a really nice object to look at, to train awareness
--BELL--
oO0Oo Resident: agreed.. nice object.. coming and going 'through'... as with thoughts, emotions, perceptions
oO0Oo Resident: but a kind of place to come back to
oO0Oo Resident: as everything moves through
Bertram Jacobus: *agree* ... :-)
Bertram Jacobus: nicely said
oO0Oo Resident: tyvm.. and for raising this helpful topic
Bertram Jacobus: tyvm for having been willing to share this with me
oO0Oo Resident: it is odd to think that the entire pathway of our breath is somehow not really closed off.. as if we had an outside and an inside. Rather.. we are kind of open and constantly penetrated by the world
oO0Oo Resident: aspects of the air becoming us, and aspects of us becoming air
Bertram Jacobus: what means "closed off" pls ?
oO0Oo Resident: well.. as if our body were a wine bottle with a cork.. but it is not like that.. it is always open in some way
Bertram Jacobus: yes
oO0Oo Resident: the path mixing with the air
Bertram Jacobus: yes
Bertram Jacobus: but why should that be "odd" ?
oO0Oo Resident: it has to do with how i am visualising it i think.. a new way of thinking of the surfaces and the topography so to speak.. for me
Bertram Jacobus: in which way "new" - if i may ask this (?) ...
oO0Oo Resident: mmm difficult to say.. like there is no outside or inside... just a continuous surface..
Bertram Jacobus: wonderful ! now i see, can be more sure that i understand. you describe it very interesting and clearly
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: i could try to find the link for you ... where the article i read from is ...
Bertram Jacobus: and i would like to take a pause then from here ...
oO0Oo Resident: that would be nice.. if it is not too much trouble to find :)
Bertram Jacobus: no. not at all - i appreciate it when we can share things , especially things like this ! - so one moment pls ... :-)
Bertram Jacobus: yes ! i found it ! ... :-)
Bertram Jacobus: http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/On_Meditation1.php
Bertram Jacobus: it´s also there in german - really nice for me ... :-9
Alfred Kelberry: wuff!
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Bertram Jacobus: *grins* - alfi ! - sry i was just leaving ... :-/
Alfred Kelberry: ah, bye then :)
oO0Oo Resident: ty Bertram.. I will be glad to read this (oh nice.. in German)
Alfred Kelberry: i popped in to see if anyone is present
Alfred Kelberry: guten morgen :)
oO0Oo Resident: :) all present and now accounted for .. hi Boxy
Alfred Kelberry: sam, good :)
Bertram Jacobus: hehe - yes - but so sry both - need a rest - hope that you have a nice day and time pls ! cu soon again ... *wave* ...
oO0Oo Resident: likewise.. I'm sorry to leave so soon friends.. but must also transition.. ty Bertram for the nice conversation.. and nice to see you boxy :)
Alfred Kelberry: kings of convenience is a nice guitar band
Alfred Kelberry: heh, bye sam :)
oO0Oo Resident: will check out K's of C! thanks Boxy
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: wuff!
Cristavi Catronis: oh hello
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Alfred Kelberry: just passing by?
Cristavi Catronis: oh perhaps, perhaps not :)
Alfred Kelberry: hehe
Cristavi Catronis: looks interesting
Alfred Kelberry: it's manga from our anniversary meeting
Alfred Kelberry: 3 years of the group
Cristavi Catronis: I see
Cristavi Catronis: congratulations
Alfred Kelberry: wee! :)
Alfred Kelberry: thanks
Cristavi Catronis: thats a long time to keep a group going in sl
Alfred Kelberry: true
Cristavi Catronis: so what goes on here
Cristavi Catronis: discussions I can imagine
Alfred Kelberry: we gather 4 times a day
Cristavi Catronis: all sitting on these little cushions
Alfred Kelberry: yep
Cristavi Catronis: in voice?
Alfred Kelberry: mindfull talks :)
Alfred Kelberry: yes, there's a voice session on friday
Cristavi Catronis: oh I like mindfull talking
Alfred Kelberry: otherwise, chat mostly
Alfred Kelberry: then you're welcomed to attend our meetings :)
Cristavi Catronis: hahah I was just trying to word that without sounding, erm rude
Cristavi Catronis: once just doesnt invite oneself
Alfred Kelberry: easy to remember - each 1 and 7 hours :)
Cristavi Catronis: *smiles
Alfred Kelberry: why not? :)
Cristavi Catronis: oh I might not fit in
Cristavi Catronis: they might not like me
Cristavi Catronis: they might take one look at me and think.. oh no.. not her
Cristavi Catronis: *grins
Alfred Kelberry: haha
Cristavi Catronis: im english you will have to excuse me
Cristavi Catronis: we are very reserved you know
Cristavi Catronis: and overly polite, mostly
--BELL--
Cristavi Catronis: and for some reason, I am teasing you
Alfred Kelberry: we all are... now and then
Cristavi Catronis: shhh
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Cristavi Catronis: we have to be silent
Alfred Kelberry: ding!
Cristavi Catronis: so, what did you say about the timings
Cristavi Catronis: that it was easy
Alfred Kelberry: 90 sec of awareness :)
Cristavi Catronis: to remember
Cristavi Catronis: hahaha
Alfred Kelberry: meeting schedule
Alfred Kelberry: 1am/pm 7am/pm
Cristavi Catronis: all sl time
Alfred Kelberry: yep
Cristavi Catronis: do I need to be in the group to attend?
Alfred Kelberry: sit in the circle and you're part of the group :)
Cristavi Catronis: I like this place already
Cristavi Catronis: it has a nice abience
Cristavi Catronis: oops missed the M
Alfred Kelberry: storm will like to hear that :)
Alfred Kelberry: the guy who built it
Cristavi Catronis: is this the group that puts the meetings on the internet
Alfred Kelberry: ah, yea
Cristavi Catronis: ahhh
Cristavi Catronis: I stumbled on those
Alfred Kelberry: so, you can't say bad words :)
Alfred Kelberry: *giggles*
Cristavi Catronis: I never do, bad language is so very ugly
Cristavi Catronis: enough ugliness in the world
Alfred Kelberry: well, you can really. if you want :)
Cristavi Catronis: certainly not
Cristavi Catronis: *smile
Cristavi Catronis: I think I will go for a walk and look around if thats alright
Alfred Kelberry: sure, it's lovely here
Cristavi Catronis: thank you