2011.06.29 13:00 - Love

The Guardian for this meeting was No Self. The comments are by No Self.

Arisia Vita: Hi all!
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Ari :)))
Dash Earthboy: hey Ari
Chi Aho: Hello all again, I was on the phone with the plumber
Dash Earthboy: quiet here today
Dash Earthboy: plumber Chi?
Korel Laloix: In a few IMs.
Chi Aho: nothing like a leak from the shower upstairs to the living room ceiling downstairs
Korel Laloix: wow.... the only time I have been here when majorly more men than women.
Dash Earthboy: awww
Dash Earthboy: we're not sexist about it HONEST :)
Korel Laloix grins... just different.
Dash Earthboy: :)
Dash Earthboy: has somebody claimed the session?
FcSeeker Resident: :)
Dash Earthboy: i didn't look to see who at the schedule?
Dash Earthboy: Bruce is here :)
Dash Earthboy: another male Korel :)
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Bruce
Chi Aho: hi, Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Fc, Dash, Chi, Korel, Dar, Zaldaan. . . (hope I'm not leaving anyone out!)
Dash Earthboy: you could just say "youuns" :)
Bruce Mowbray: OH! Arisia -- HELLO!
Arisia Vita: :)
Korel Laloix: or y'all
Dash Earthboy: who'll claim this session?
Korel Laloix: Wrestle for it.
Dash Earthboy: heheh
Bruce Mowbray: I'm happy to claim it -- but isn't there a guardian assigned to it?
Dash Earthboy: not sure Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: I will claim it unter the regular guardian for the session arrived.
Dash Earthboy: i didn't look at the schedule :)
Bruce Mowbray: arrives.
Dash Earthboy: ty Bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: yw, Dash.
Bruce Mowbray: afk for just a minute -- carry on, please.
Dash Earthboy: okeedokee
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Dash Earthboy: doh
FcSeeker Resident: smiles to this 'carry on' :)
Dash Earthboy: carry it on, carry it on :)
FcSeeker Resident: aint it the army way to say ?
FcSeeker Resident: (learned so from the American movies)
Bruce Mowbray: (back)
FcSeeker Resident: wb Bruce
Dash Earthboy: quiet here today
Korel Laloix: Carry on is a rather Armyish thing to say.
Dash Earthboy: oops i'm repeating myself
Bruce Mowbray can hear the music of the spheres today.
Korel Laloix: I did Army ROTC for a semester and they seemed to say that a lot.
Fefonz Quan: hi all!
Korel Laloix: osiyo
Dash Earthboy: hey Fefonz
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Fefonz
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Fef.
Fefonz Quan: hey Bruce, hope I didn't pushed you over there :)
Dash Earthboy: was this to be Fef's session? just curious :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Caledonia.
Korel Laloix: Thank good ness.
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Caledonia
Fefonz Quan: yep :)
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray: Yayyy for Fef !
FcSeeker Resident: anybody knows how my gf is ?
Chi Aho: who is she?
Dash Earthboy: :)
FcSeeker Resident: look at my profile please
FcSeeker Resident: Hokon Cazalet takes care of her
Chi Aho: Teddy and Toddy?
FcSeeker Resident: smiles
Caledonia Heron: hi :) slow rez sorry
Korel Laloix: Very laggy today.
Dash Earthboy: hi caledonia
Bruce Mowbray: wb, Caledonia.
Fefonz Quan: hello Cal
Bruce Mowbray: We were chatting about the expression "carry on" earlier. . . .
Caledonia Heron: hey Fefonz :)
Bruce Mowbray: When we do our 90-sec drops. I'm in the custom of saying to myself, put down what you are carrying so that you can see what is carrying everything (if anything is).
Bruce Mowbray: Does space carry us?
Bruce Mowbray: Does time carry us?
Bruce Mowbray: Do our concepts of things carry us?
Dash Earthboy: speaking of carrying on...it's a little shocking that out of all of the animals in the over 300 species classified as extinct, none remain to carry on
Bruce Mowbray: So, Dash, perhaps existence itself carries us -- or does not.
Caledonia Heron: lol, it's this shared blurry lens we all sort of agree to :)
Chi Aho: If you mean why we don't fall through the floor with all that empty space inside the atoms, they say it is magnetism that holds us up, but isn't that a kind of energy (spirit)?
Bruce Mowbray: Someone has IMs me saying that is it love that carries us.
Caledonia Heron: electricity :)
Korel Laloix: We had teh definition of love discussion a couple of days ago.
FcSeeker Resident: I agree with such people who say so
Bruce Mowbray: Someone just Im'd me saying it is LOVE that carries us.
Caledonia Heron: the perfect blend of physics and the meta
Dash Earthboy: *wishes love could give us back the extinct species :)
Chi Aho: dinos?
Dash Earthboy: thinking like a tennis player, i don't see how ZERO carries us ?
Fefonz Quan: I wouldn't equal energy annd spiriti in that sense Chi
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Dash gave us a definition -- but I'm guessing that love (like vertually everything else) is NOT definable.
Dash Earthboy: haha
Caledonia Heron: you know if when you feel it :)
Dash Earthboy: not definable
Chi Aho: Love is giving.
Caledonia Heron: when if is given and received
Caledonia Heron: *it
Dash Earthboy: sanctuary for anarchists
Korel Laloix: What?
Caledonia Heron: passing through, thanks for thought nuggets :)
FcSeeker Resident: it is giving even if only one self loves
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Cal.
FcSeeker Resident: meaning; even if is not loved in return
Bruce Mowbray: I agree, Fc -- good point.
FcSeeker Resident: and imo...when your loved in return, it multiplies all good
FcSeeker Resident: that we can even 'fly'....
Chi Aho: brb
Korel Laloix: YOu mean infatuation?
Korel Laloix: No idea how to spell that word.
FcSeeker Resident: (needs his wordbook)
FcSeeker Resident: ah no
FcSeeker Resident: I'm speaking about genuine love
FcSeeker Resident: Hello arabella
Bruce Mowbray: you spelled it right, Korel.
Fefonz Quan: Hi Ara!
Dash Earthboy: speak to us of genuine love Fc
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Ara.
arabella Ella: Hiya everyone!
Dash Earthboy: hey ara
FcSeeker Resident: speakeing about that 'heaven' which lasts forewer, grows with sharing and only gives
FcSeeker Resident: such kind of love
FcSeeker Resident: infatuation can rise from mind
FcSeeker Resident: love rises from heart
FcSeeker Resident: but sure infatuation also is wonderfull motion
Korel Laloix: True... but the first couple of weeks of a new relationshp is such a wonder.... I love the infatuation phase if that is the right word.
Korel Laloix: I just love those feelings and rushes.
FcSeeker Resident: I feel that you use the very right word
Bruce Mowbray: Does anything carry the love -- I mean, does space, time, or perhaps some sense of "eternity-divinity" carry the love - when we are not able to?
FcSeeker Resident: and THAT makes one to fly also even if is not loved in return...at least for a while
FcSeeker Resident: to you Bruce I'de say yes
Fefonz Quan: unreturned infatuation can be very painful
FcSeeker Resident: when ever you wish that you could love, you are helped to do that
FcSeeker Resident: when ever
Korel Laloix: That is true... but when it is mutual... wow.
FcSeeker Resident: ah yes :)))))))))))))))))))))
--BELL--
FcSeeker Resident: I am still carried much with my own infatuation to my gf, even I met her only a moment
FcSeeker Resident: that moment shall never go away
Dash Earthboy: the Stones said "love that's real will not fade away..."
Fefonz Quan: or is it infatuation with this moment?
FcSeeker Resident: I have us in the pictgure in my profile and can remind me when ever of that moment too
Bruce Mowbray: (so did Buddy Holly).
FcSeeker Resident: can join that moment to this moment
Chi Aho: Google the song "Love is Something that You Do" and the meaning of love will be clear from its lyrics.
FcSeeker Resident: and think how rare such even is to the toy that ever happenes
FcSeeker Resident: that I am so lucky makes me to feel even better
FcSeeker Resident: even if I never meet her again
Bruce Mowbray: I am happy for you, Fc.
FcSeeker Resident: hmmm
arabella Ella: i am happy for you too!
FcSeeker Resident: what might the be the doning which I do loving her
arabella Ella: and altho i wish to stay i am afraid i must leave now so bye everyone!
FcSeeker Resident: but that can be that I turn my mind to remember her
Korel Laloix: ciao bella
FcSeeker Resident: wishes you to enjoy your t ime arabella
arabella Ella: thnks!
Fefonz Quan: BYE ARA!
Bruce Mowbray: bye, Ara.
FcSeeker Resident: so....is it so that I feel infatination to her doing that she came to me and showed that she at least likes me
FcSeeker Resident: and that she gave such rare experiment to me
FcSeeker Resident: I think and feel also that she gave rare experiment to all who was present
FcSeeker Resident: that there was even this will to take this picture that I can share this special moment with anybody I meet
FcSeeker Resident: so she is very special lady :))))
FcSeeker Resident: ...me alone here now ?
Arisia Vita: never alone
FcSeeker Resident: smiles
Bruce Mowbray: No, we're listening to you and happy for you.
Korel Laloix: I think the infatuation phase is there so we can overlook the other person's flaws until we get to know them... smiles
FcSeeker Resident: thank you
Chi Aho: I believe infatuation to be entirely different from love.
FcSeeker Resident: indeed
Korel Laloix: But maybe a seed for love?
Korel Laloix: Or maybe fertilizer?... grins
FcSeeker Resident: smiles
Dash Earthboy: *thinks stalking behavior may spring from infatuation, but never from love*
Bruce Mowbray: In rare cases, a couple might remain infatuated with each other their entire lives.
Chi Aho: Infatuation may lead one toward the romantic concept of love, but I do not believe that it in itself will lead one to being a loving giving person.
Korel Laloix: Stalking is very different from infactuation.... many more layers than that I think.
Korel Laloix: I think infatuation is very selfish ... but not intentionlly.
Bruce Mowbray: Tomorr in the Ways of Knowing group, we'll be talking about a part of this -- monogamy . . . .
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Korel -- That's what we'll be discussing tomorrow -- jealousy and monogamy in relationships.
Fefonz Quan: /ma nods to Chi
--BELL--
Fefonz Quan: /me
Chi Aho: Monogamy is o.k. just marry one at a time
FcSeeker Resident: imo there's difference betweeen selfishness and being infactuated
FcSeeker Resident: the keyword's are
FcSeeker Resident: to share
Dash Earthboy: Chi, you speak of serial monogamy?
FcSeeker Resident: when you are infactuated you want to share
FcSeeker Resident: that is not to be selfish
Chi Aho: jokingly yes
Dash Earthboy: as opposed to multiple life partners simultaneously?
Chi Aho: ugh
Bruce Mowbray: (I'm assuming that jealousy would be part of the 'selfishness' you refer to, Korel.)
Korel Laloix: Could be... would have to think about that though.
FcSeeker Resident: and when one feels jealousy---which is very understandable concerning human beings---that do not rise from love, but selfishness
Korel Laloix: I was thinking more..... when I am infatuated.... I have noticed this in me.... I imagine what that person can do for me or with me (not talking sexual)
FcSeeker Resident: thinks also that selfisness rises from fears
Korel Laloix: I really don't day dream about what I can do for her.
Chi Aho: Isn't jealousy fear of losing something that you have?
FcSeeker Resident: yes
FcSeeker Resident: and because nowbody can ever truly own any other spirit, one can never either lost anyone
Fefonz Quan: But could we be infatuated with life itself?
FcSeeker Resident: why not ?
Chi Aho: Yes, Fc, but you do have the relationship.
Korel Laloix: Not under my definition.
Fefonz Quan: The bummer is, regular infatuation has a very obvious object to clling to
Korel Laloix: Yes... but the next bit after the infatuation is great as well... smiles
Fefonz Quan: hmmm...
FcSeeker Resident: (have I that but in my mind ?)
Korel Laloix: Then you get to start opening up and really getting to know.
Chi Aho: I have heard it said that everyone who marries marries a stranger.
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Wol :)
Dash Earthboy: hey Wol :)
Chi Aho: Hello, Wol
Korel Laloix: heya
Wol Euler: hello everyone
Fefonz Quan: (In the old testimony 'knowing' has severak meaninigs
Fefonz Quan: )
FcSeeker Resident: we have wonderfull topic here today Wol
FcSeeker Resident: love
Wol Euler: sorry I'm late, just got in fromwork
Korel Laloix: Well... infatuation.
FcSeeker Resident: that also
Fefonz Quan: Hi Wol!
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Wol.
Wol Euler smiles a general greeting to all
Korel Laloix: Looks like Wol killed the conversation.... smiles
Wol Euler: ah well
Korel Laloix: We were talking about you actually...
Wol Euler: ok, I'll leave soi you can continue
FcSeeker Resident: or added love in himself to it and we got a moment of wordfull silence
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps it is infatuation that carries us - after all.
Dash Earthboy: i believe the desire to have something all to oneself is the foundation of monogamy
Korel Laloix grins
Korel Laloix: I think I dissagree with you dash.
Bruce Mowbray: There's too much of subject-object polarity in the jealousy stuff.
FcSeeker Resident: (wishes from the bottom of his heart that Wol dont go away even she is not my gf, but I love her also)
Dash Earthboy: in college in Utah, I went with three g/f's everywhere together
Bruce Mowbray lilstens for more from Korel.
Wol Euler: awwwwwwwwwwww
Dash Earthboy: people thought I was LDS :)
Wol Euler: ty, fc, just for that I will stay
Korel Laloix: I think it is a natural draw to intensity of feeling... and spreading it out in more than one person decreases the depth.
Korel Laloix: So we naturally drift toward monogomy.
FcSeeker Resident: <3<3<3
Dash Earthboy: and experienced real love
Bruce Mowbray: for the information of those who do not already know - LDS is Latter Day Saints.
Bruce Mowbray: Mormons -- who (some) believe in having several wives.
FcSeeker Resident: also muslims do so
Chi Aho: Weren't these gf's "vanilla" friends?
Dash Earthboy: no
Dash Earthboy: and I wasn't leading a cult either :)
Korel Laloix: lol
Chi Aho: platonic love, then
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Dash Earthboy: no Chi
FcSeeker Resident: you didn't ?
Bruce Mowbray: I need to "carry on" with real life now.
Dash Earthboy: not just platonic love
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks for this interesting discussion.
Dash Earthboy: bye Bruce
Chi Aho: see you, Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: May all be well and ahppy with whatever infatuates you.
Korel Laloix: Ciao
Wol Euler: bye bruce, take care
FcSeeker Resident: enjoy your day Bruce
Dash Earthboy: you too Bruce
FcSeeker Resident: :)
Fefonz Quan: take care bruce
--BELL--
Dash Earthboy: Chi the love I found in Utah helped me formulate my definition
Dash Earthboy: the definition I hold to as immutable
Korel Laloix: I think people have very different expereinces with love.
Korel Laloix: So they have different definitions.
FcSeeker Resident: then they have experiences of something that is not genuine love
FcSeeker Resident: experiences of genuine love are similart
FcSeeker Resident: similar
Dash Earthboy: yes Korel but IMHO it's important to know what you mean by "love" if we are to have any meaningful dialogue on it
Chi Aho: your definition again, dash?
Fefonz Quan would like to refer to Eros ans Agape
Dash Earthboy: ok Chi, here it are
Dash Earthboy: "a pro-active concern for the well-being of the object of one's attention"
Fefonz Quan: http://www.sjchurchofchrist.org/agape.shtml
Wol Euler: hello zon
Zon Kwan: hey hey
Dash Earthboy: anything else is a variation on the theme
Dash Earthboy: or icing on the cake :)
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Zon
Chi Aho: Dash, I would have a pro-active concern for the well being of my boss
Dash Earthboy: but love is certainly definable
Chi Aho: Well, I think it means different things to different people.
Zon Kwan: why should it be
Korel Laloix: I think it is definable, but figuring out how it is applied is difficult.
Zon Kwan: just feel it
Dash Earthboy: Chi, what does it mean to you?
FcSeeker Resident: maybe that could help somebody to know it Zon
Chi Aho: Love is giving.
Zon Kwan: to define it ?
Zon Kwan: hm
FcSeeker Resident: yes
Dash Earthboy: Zon, if love is only a "feeling" it is empty
Zon Kwan: hm
Zon Kwan: only a feeling ?
Chi Aho: You do it; it is something that you do; you don't intellectualize about it, you just do it
Zon Kwan: is it a thought then ?
FcSeeker Resident: emptyness can be great power
Zon Kwan: love is the feeling of unity
Zon Kwan: its not a word
Zon Kwan: a feeling
FcSeeker Resident: true
FcSeeker Resident: it is not a word
Fefonz Quan nods. In a way it is a change in one's point of view
Dash Earthboy: and that is where we find discord among the nations
Zon Kwan: it has to be experienced
FcSeeker Resident: so very true that too
Fefonz Quan: outside the pros and cons of the doings for the ego
FcSeeker Resident: your words brings imo the main issue of love Fefonz
Zon Kwan: an thinking level love cannot be understood
FcSeeker Resident: 'outside the ego'
Fefonz Quan: (level love?)
FcSeeker Resident: feels that to be also very good expression Fefonz
FcSeeker Resident: are you special master of words ?
Wol Euler excuses herself and slips away to bed.
Zon Kwan: i cant think i love someone, i either love or i dont
Wol Euler: too tired, sorry
Fefonz Quan: night Wol!
Dash Earthboy: g'nite Wol :)
Wol Euler: goodnight all, take care
FcSeeker Resident: have very good night Wol
Korel Laloix: ciao
Zon Kwan: nite
Fefonz Quan: any answer will contradict your question Fc :)
Chi Aho: brb
FcSeeker Resident: oh
FcSeeker Resident: even 'yes' ?
Zon Kwan: a good answer always destroys the question
Fefonz Quan: that will show low mastery of the ego, wou.ldn't it? ;-)
FcSeeker Resident: o.k.
FcSeeker Resident: well...imo all would have good reasons to be honest of one's self also for special good things
FcSeeker Resident: but I think that you teached me something again
Fefonz Quan: And a good question will carry you on for a long way even without the answer Zon
--BELL--
Zon Kwan: when there is no question at all..the mind is quiet
FcSeeker Resident: is there a difference with the meaning of words 'silence' and 'quiet' ?
Fefonz Quan: or - when the mind is quiet - is there still a need for answers?
FcSeeker Resident: think not
Zon Kwan: or questions
FcSeeker Resident: think not them either
Fefonz Quan: seems like both Zon and I are talking about their last names here
Zon Kwan: is there then ..love ?
FcSeeker Resident: there is
FcSeeker Resident: because love is everywhere
FcSeeker Resident: there is no life without love
FcSeeker Resident: that may be my religion too for sure
Fefonz Quan: I sure hope so. yet still need to find out
Fefonz Quan: ( to Zon)
Dash Earthboy: i experienced real love
FcSeeker Resident: I have met even the black whole state and even there is love
Zon Kwan: how do u know
Dash Earthboy: what others may call love does not have integrity if gazed upon too long
Zon Kwan: how to know its "real"
Dash Earthboy: and i know what is real and what is true
Zon Kwan: how
FcSeeker Resident: imo only own experience can answer to your question Zon
Dash Earthboy: and i know that reality is not the same as truth
Zon Kwan: so it is a feeling ?
Dash Earthboy: how do i know?
FcSeeker Resident: I agree completely with you Dash
Zon Kwan: all i can know is what i feel
FcSeeker Resident: but maybe this kind of 'answer' can help to know about
Dash Earthboy: ah Zon such fragility
FcSeeker Resident: when ever you feel the truth you feel also the 'quiet' /silence
FcSeeker Resident: where you dont have any questions left
Zon Kwan: lol
Dash Earthboy: i try to foster integrity
Dash Earthboy: integrity is strength
FcSeeker Resident: <3<3<3
Dash Earthboy: discord between word and deed indicates a lack of integrity
Dash Earthboy: when one knows in one's heart and mind the same knowledge, that is wisdom
FcSeeker Resident: aha
Dash Earthboy: that is not ego
Zon Kwan: nods
Zon Kwan: a metafeling
Korel Laloix: Take care all...
FcSeeker Resident: enjoy your time Korel
Zon Kwan: bye all
Fefonz Quan: Bye korel
FcSeeker Resident: you too Zon
Dash Earthboy: bye
Fefonz Quan: and good night all, it's getting late and i should carry on :)
Chi Aho: Clint Black: Love is Something that We Do
Korel Laloix: IN Durango CO today.
Dash Earthboy: wow Korel !!
Arisia Vita: I must fly too...
Dash Earthboy: take care Fefonz
Dash Earthboy: bye Arisia
Fefonz Quan: take care all _/|\_
Arisia Vita: be well and happy