2011.06.30 07:00 - Imperfection

The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind...

Er... no, actually they're not. It seems there are no comments!

Storm apologizes that he had rather less time than usual and - rather than rely on his flawed memory later - presents the session simply 'as is'. So the title is triply apt!
 

FcSeeker Resident: Hello Storm
Storm Nordwind: Hello Fc! :)
Storm Nordwind: How are you today?
--BELL--
FcSeeker Resident: we had very serious meeting here
Storm Nordwind: Oh? In a good way?
FcSeeker Resident: I hope so
Storm Nordwind smiles
FcSeeker Resident: all of the people present didn't comment even in IM, but some did
FcSeeker Resident: so I cannot know for sure
FcSeeker Resident: well...is it to read to you already ?
Storm Nordwind: I probably have not read it.
Storm Nordwind: There are very many logs and I have time to read only a small proportion of them.
Storm Nordwind: So please describe the session for me if you would like to. :)
FcSeeker Resident: well
FcSeeker Resident: I didn't feel anything bad
FcSeeker Resident: but I may have spoken that way of people's innocence
FcSeeker Resident: that who knows that I speak only about what I know
FcSeeker Resident: needs to check their opinions of that
FcSeeker Resident: meaning the innocence of human beings
Storm Nordwind: Yes
Storm Nordwind: I'm not sure I fully understand yet. Were you suggesting that innocence was bad?
FcSeeker Resident: ah no
FcSeeker Resident: but when somebody has a strong opinion of something
FcSeeker Resident: and then hear the story which prooves that his/her opinion has been only opinion
FcSeeker Resident: not the trut
FcSeeker Resident: somebody may take that to be bad
FcSeeker Resident: truth
Storm Nordwind: I suspect it is only a matter of time. It is likely their illusions will be shattered one day.
FcSeeker Resident: I agree with you completely
Storm Nordwind: And there are many things people use as "rules of thumb" - practical things - that they forget are only temporary truths, sometimes just for them, and not anything more far-reaching
FcSeeker Resident: but I have something bothering me...not from that meeting, but for the event there happened in one earlier
FcSeeker Resident: there sure is the turth to each thing and time
FcSeeker Resident: yet
Storm Nordwind: I am happy to listen and discuss if you wish :)
FcSeeker Resident: in case somebody has the 'truth' only to one's self
FcSeeker Resident: it cannot then be the truth but opinion
FcSeeker Resident: I have pondered if there is some special rights to some people here in the meeting based on some special place they have which I dont know
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Dash
Storm Nordwind waves to Dash
Dash Earthboy: :) waves
FcSeeker Resident: is there ?
FcSeeker Resident: meaning that is somebody above others for some reason ?
Storm Nordwind: Hmm... there are no explicit special rights. From experience some people may be held in respect of high esteem
Storm Nordwind: Good morning Eliza
Dash Earthboy: hey Eliza
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Storm, FcS, Dash, Zaldaan
FcSeeker Resident: that I understand easy
Storm Nordwind: For example, I have experience in many things, but I may listen more closely to someone with more knowledge or experience in one area than me
FcSeeker Resident: but you gave the answer to my question so I thank you
FcSeeker Resident: now I know
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind: I think many of us try to encourage an "open space" here. We allow everyone's ideas and opinions a place to breathe!
Eliza Madrigal: nice way of putting that, Storm
FcSeeker Resident: that is what I thought, but this 'something' made me to doubt
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Bleu
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Everyone :)
Storm Nordwind: We are also human, imperfect beings who sometimes are just "having a bad day"!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Storm Nordwind: So our behavior here may not be consistent!
Yakuzza Lethecus: hope nobody got one right now, hey everyone
Storm Nordwind: Hi Bleu
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Yakuzza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yaku
Storm Nordwind: Hi Yaku
Bleu Oleander: hi Yaku
Dash Earthboy: hey Yaku!
FcSeeker Resident: understand such also
FcSeeker Resident: sure
Dash Earthboy: hey Xirana
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Xirana
Eliza Madrigal: Sorry to hear something disturbed you FcS... but maybe blindspots are by nature, blind :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey xirana
Storm Nordwind: Welcome Xirana!
Xirana Oximoxi: hello everyone:)
Xirana Oximoxi: ty:)
Bleu Oleander: hi Xirana
Eliza Madrigal: Intuitions operate there too though, don't they? peeking from blindspots?
Dash Earthboy: Storm, if human beings are imperfect, what is perfection?
FcSeeker Resident: can something be perfect ?
Storm Nordwind: What would you like it to be Dash?
Bleu Oleander: who's judging human beings to be imperfect?
Dash Earthboy: i would like it to be what Jesus meant by the word "perfect" as an adjective and as a verb
Storm Nordwind: I think you'll have to ask him! ;)
Dash Earthboy: why?
Storm Nordwind: I don't know what he meant.
Eliza Madrigal hears the word as complete, enough, satisfied ... so a homemade pie with 'imperfections' is still perfect
Dash Earthboy: Storm...really
Storm Nordwind: I am not a follower of Jesus. Nor an expert in his teaching or life.
Dash Earthboy: you responded to my sincere question with "what would you like it to be?"
Dash Earthboy: i answered you
Dash Earthboy: and then you obfuscate further
Storm Nordwind: I do?!
Dash Earthboy: of course
Eliza Madrigal thinks she needs more coffee.... brb
Dash Earthboy: you turn it into Jesus answering a question I asked you :)
Storm Nordwind: I'm not sure how I can answer any question about perfection. I mentioned imperfection because we rarely live up to the ideals other people set for us.
Dash Earthboy: i happen to know what the words translated as "perfect" in his context did mean
Dash Earthboy: ahh, thank you Storm
Bleu Oleander: who is judging perfection vs imperfection? other people?
Dash Earthboy: that is what I was asking...so your concept of perfection is based on other people's ideals
Storm Nordwind: Actually I do not have a conception of perfection at all.
Xirana Oximoxi: I understand exactly the opposite :))
Dash Earthboy: :)
Bleu Oleander: don't feel the need to judge myself or any other as perfect or imperfect
Dash Earthboy: *tries to understand use of words one doesn't have a concept for :)
Storm Nordwind: Perfection sounds very 'absolute' to me. I'm not convinced absolutes exist.
--BELL--
Xirana Oximoxi: I agree Bleu, to judge oneself or others with this concept of perfection seems very radical and 'intransigent' to me
Dash Earthboy: *enjoys hearing "agree"
Eliza Madrigal: well,absolute/relative is still duality... however there does seem an embrace possible there, ie 'being' appreciation of relative phenomena
Eliza Madrigal: and lately I'm realizing how differently people use the same words, it is really amazing, so 'always' space
Eliza Madrigal: which doesn't mean we always make space or see the space
Eliza Madrigal: I can honestly say my kids are perfect, though I'd like them to clean their rooms
Xirana Oximoxi: hehe
Bleu Oleander: haha
Dash Earthboy: you mean "flawless" Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: No, I already described how I taste the word perfect...
Dash Earthboy: is that "perfect"
Eliza Madrigal: re enough, whole
Dash Earthboy: ah, ok
Bleu Oleander: could you say enough and whole about every living being?
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, friend in IM... sorry to poof out so soon and look forward to reading the log...
Dash Earthboy: *believes "sufficient" is better synonym for "enough" than "perfect"
Storm Nordwind: Bye Eliza
Dash Earthboy: bye Eliza
Bleu Oleander: bye Eliza
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Bleu, wonderful question...
FcSeeker Resident: bye Eliza
Xirana Oximoxi: bye Eliza tc:)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: a question of a lifetime or more
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: See you guys later
Xirana Oximoxi: :))
Bleu Oleander ⊱ smiles ⊰
Dash Earthboy: *a hush fell over the crowd...
Dash Earthboy: for more than 90 seconds :)
FcSeeker Resident: to me imperfect and perfect are not good or bad but a try to describe something to hold all possible or not
Dash Earthboy: that is very close to the ancient meaning :)
--BELL--
FcSeeker Resident: some things do not change 'by time'... because of changes in the enviroment
FcSeeker Resident: even tiny piecies of the truth are such
Dash Earthboy: yes!
Bleu Oleander: take care all
Storm Nordwind waves
Bleu Oleander: have a great day :)
Dash Earthboy: bye Bleu
Xirana Oximoxi: bye Bleu:)
Bleu Oleander waves
FcSeeker Resident: still I have the belief that much of the truth is even meant to be forgottan in the name of to be able to have new experiences in changed enviroment
FcSeeker Resident: bye Bley
FcSeeker Resident: with the enviroment I mean all concerning with which one needs to deal with in one's life
Storm Nordwind: Fc, can you give an example of something that doesn't change 'by time'?
FcSeeker Resident: all laws of life
FcSeeker Resident: love
FcSeeker Resident: and specially the highest law whic takes place with the known law of reasons and concequencies
FcSeeker Resident: that law is to say with one word, but to truly understand it is no obvious
FcSeeker Resident: that word is
FcSeeker Resident: freedom
Dash Earthboy: like "free will"?
FcSeeker Resident: that is an other story than freedom
FcSeeker Resident: but that is one of the laws of life
Storm Nordwind has met people with conflicting ideas about what love is, so wonders what a law of love would be.
FcSeeker Resident: ah
FcSeeker Resident: didn't mean to say that there is any law concerning love
FcSeeker Resident: meant that love is one such thing that do not change by time
FcSeeker Resident: hmm...it sure can grow, but it's charachter stays as it is
Dash Earthboy: character=essence?
FcSeeker Resident: yes Dash
FcSeeker Resident: the word essence feels even better
Storm Nordwind: Is it an essence that can be described in words?
FcSeeker Resident: I believe that to be possible
Xirana Oximoxi: and don't you think that even this essence of the concept of 'love' is different related to every different culture
Xirana Oximoxi: ?
FcSeeker Resident: all still is based on if the listener wants to understand or not
FcSeeker Resident: love is not related to anything
FcSeeker Resident: all feelings and motions are that for sure
FcSeeker Resident: but not love
Dash Earthboy: Xirana...i think your point on differences is similar to the old saw about 100 different witnesses to an accident each having a different account of it
FcSeeker Resident: will to take care, will to make other person's wishes to come true, will to heal
FcSeeker Resident: all such kind of feelings and motions are based on will and love
FcSeeker Resident: will to live love to reveal itself in doings
FcSeeker Resident: but they are not love itself
Storm Nordwind: That kind of love would seem in conflict with your higher law of freedom anyway
FcSeeker Resident: why ?
Storm Nordwind: If you will to make another's wishes come true, if you will to heal, are you not intervening in their freedom?
Xirana Oximoxi: well... I just think that concepts and the words are elaborated by humans to express abstract meanings... but because of that they also are changing concepts
Xirana Oximoxi: language and concepts are permanetly changing
FcSeeker Resident: to Storm; not when I dont do anything based on my own will
Dash Earthboy: Xirana, understood...but the "truth" is that an accident occurred
--BELL--
Dash Earthboy: the better one can observe and describe that "truth" the better for all involved
Xirana Oximoxi: Dash... I agree:))) ... but, I've heard that 'truth is like a broken mirror ... when each part shows a small piece of it:)
Dash Earthboy: *routinely meditates on Aesop's fable about the blind men and the elephant
FcSeeker Resident: that is quite good expression of the truth I feel
FcSeeker Resident: that is why people should gather and bring their thoughts and have conversations
Dash Earthboy: yes!
Dash Earthboy: meaningful conversations :)
Xirana Oximoxi: yes!... talking and trying to discover each point of view is a way to enrich ourselfs and our understanding too
FcSeeker Resident: that could also be a topic; which is meaningful or not :;)
Dash Earthboy: wb Yaku :)
Storm Nordwind remembers an extension to Aesop's fable where the men died of starvation because they would not stop arguing about what it was like. I think the implication was that some elephants don't need to be touched all the time! ;)
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
FcSeeker Resident: one loves F1 and the other football and the next one loves soccer
Dash Earthboy: *recognizes bollox when he hears it :)
Dash Earthboy: sry didn't mean to go all British on ya :)
Storm Nordwind: Anglo-Saxon is fine here
Xirana Oximoxi: 'bollox' ?
Dash Earthboy: Xirana it could be spelled bollocks
Xirana Oximoxi: ahhh ok :))
Dash Earthboy: u c?
Yakuzza Lethecus: nonsense
Storm Nordwind: An old Anglo-Saxon word for testicles. In recent years it took on extra expletive and dismissive meanings.
Xirana Oximoxi: this one I should have looked for in Urban dictionary:)
FcSeeker Resident: (this baby panda still do not understand your that line Dash)
Dash Earthboy: Storm clarified for me Fc :)
FcSeeker Resident: ah o.k.
Xirana Oximoxi: I go now... nice day to all and see you soon:)
Dash Earthboy: u2 Xirana
Storm Nordwind: Bye Xirana!
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye xirana, see you soon
FcSeeker Resident: enjoy your time Xirana
Xirana Oximoxi: byebye
Dash Earthboy: just changed my environment to "sunrise"
FcSeeker Resident: smiles
Dash Earthboy: wonder why it was so dark here?
Dash Earthboy: i try to go with the grid settings
FcSeeker Resident: night in SL ?
Storm Nordwind: It will be dark without sunrise for another15-20 minutes :)
Dash Earthboy: so it appeared Fc
Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm, they don´t orient themselves on california there ?
Storm Nordwind: A fast spinning world with 3 hours day and 1 hour night
Dash Earthboy: * "and if you don't like the weather, wait 10 minutes" :)
Storm Nordwind: If you own the sim, apparently you can stop time and have perpetual daylight (or whatever).
Dash Earthboy: Fc, can we try the winter garden again?
Storm Nordwind: We don't own the sim :)
FcSeeker Resident: sure
FcSeeker Resident: just a sec please
Dash Earthboy: *thinks Yaku would enjoy :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: nice :)
Dash Earthboy: YAYYY!!!
FcSeeker Resident: oh no
FcSeeker Resident: we must go
Storm Nordwind adds a little more snow
Yakuzza Lethecus: he used to ress a green garden
Dash Earthboy: did y'all just get that restart meessage?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i feel reminded of another old pab member
--BELL--
FcSeeker Resident: so I wish you all to enjoy your time
FcSeeker Resident: namaste
Dash Earthboy: well, we've had our 5-minute warning
Yakuzza Lethecus: namaste seeker
Dash Earthboy: gtsy'all
Storm Nordwind waves
FcSeeker Resident: waves
Dash Earthboy: ciao...waves
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone