Page last modified 13:23, 22 Oct 2012 by Agatha MacBeth
PlayAsBeing Wiki > Chat Logs > 2012 > 10 > 2012.10.21 08:00 - Guardians Session - Deception, Desire, Complacency
2012.10.21 08:00 - Guardians Session - Deception, Desire, Complacency
Table of contents
No headersPresent for today's Guardians Meeting were: Agatha Macbeth : Aphrodite Macbain : Bleu Oleander : Bruce Mowbray : Eliza Madrigal : Santoshima Resident : Xirana Oximoxi : Xs Andree : Yakuzza Lethecus : Zen Arado : druth Vlodovic : szavanna Resident
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Hey, Eliza!
Agatha Macbeth: Mo Tility
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Hi Everyone!
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I know we can change names in SL...but it seems my viewers does not like it....since last SL update...I see again all avatars with the original name and surname
Agatha Macbeth: Liz ♥
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): hello Eliza!
Agatha Macbeth: I prefer the old system
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): My typist changed his surname when he was married.
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes...I think it's somehow confusing... changing names
Agatha Macbeth grins @ Bruce
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): keeps 'em guess, that's for sure.
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :))
Agatha Macbeth: Sun! :))
Agatha Macbeth: WB
Sunshine (szavanna): Aga ❤
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Here comes the SUN!
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Hi Sun :D
Agatha Macbeth: Da da da da
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): Sza!! :)
Sunshine (szavanna) can't open the door ;(
Sunshine (szavanna) cries
Agatha Macbeth: All she needs to do now is get through the door :p
Sunshine (szavanna): lol
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I see the door open
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): uh oh... may be at the faux door
Sunshine (szavanna): really
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): both doors, now!
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): nope... there you are :)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes:))
Agatha Macbeth: Just walk forward Sun
Agatha Macbeth: Yay
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): lookin' cute
Sunshine (szavanna): °͜° yay tyy
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): you're in
Sunshine (szavanna): hi all ;))
Agatha Macbeth: Nice shorts
Sunshine (szavanna): ty freebies °͜° IM for details
Sunshine (szavanna): ;p
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): heheh
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :)
Sunshine (szavanna): Xiri °͜°
Agatha Macbeth: I'm not really into them meself
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): Sunny..svanni:))
Sunshine (szavanna): °͜° kk
Sunshine (szavanna): svanna
Sunshine (szavanna): sunvanna
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): "I love short shorts!" -- song from the 60's....
Sunshine (szavanna): hmm
Agatha Macbeth: You remind me of Sharon
Sunshine (szavanna): Brucey °͜°
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yessss sunszvanna is nice:))
Sunshine (szavanna): ;))
Sunshine (szavanna): hope you are all well
Agatha Macbeth: I iz indeed
Sunshine (szavanna): yayz
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): hello Zen! :)
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcvjXAtzaMU
Agatha Macbeth: Hiya Zen
Sunshine (szavanna): Zenji ♥
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Hi Zen :)
Sunshine (szavanna): ty Bruce °͜°
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Hey, Zen!
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and Hi Aph :)
Zen (zen.arado): Hi all
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): hello Aph! :)
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: hello all!
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Hey, Aph!
Aphrodite Macbain: grins at everyone
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Hey, druth!
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Hi Druth :)
Second Life: Ari (arisia.vita) is online.
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi druth
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Hey, Bleu!
druth Vlodovic: hi guys, I didn't realize there was another entrance here
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): hi druth, Bleu
Bleu (bleu.oleander): hey all
Sunshine (szavanna): Bleuji °͜°
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Druth, Bleu
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Hi Bleu and San :)
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Hey, San!
Sunshine (szavanna): hi San :)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): Hello San!
Agatha Macbeth: Bleu babe :)
Zen (zen.arado): San
Eliza (eliza.madrigal) loves to see everyone pour in
San (santoshima): greetings :)
Sunshine (szavanna): hi Aph and Druthy
Bleu (bleu.oleander): just came from the Dome
Bleu (bleu.oleander): great projects already!!
Agatha Macbeth: Who is that masked woman?
Bleu (bleu.oleander): amazing works
Aphrodite Macbain: how does everything look?
Bleu (bleu.oleander): haha
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ohhh did you make the translation alone Bleu?? :)
Bleu (bleu.oleander): not yet Xiri
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Hey, Xs.
Sunshine (szavanna): hi Xs :)
Xs Andree: ao off
Bleu (bleu.oleander): waiting for my team :)
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Aph
Xs Andree: Hello, everyone.
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ahh OK:)) we need men to caryyy our work:))
Aphrodite Macbain: Hey aggers
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Hi Xs, welcome. This is our guardians session mainly but you're welcome to join us
Bleu (bleu.oleander): haha yes
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): nice to have you here
Sunshine (szavanna): wow looking cool Bleu °͜°
Xs Andree: /me nods
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes:)
Bleu (bleu.oleander): :)
Beginning...
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I'm not sure what direction would be interesting for this morning's session.... there are general updates, like art of being upcoming (today is the day that exhibits will start being placed as Bleu mentions), and upcoming SL retreat, which is basically full - can likely squeeze in one more who is committed to the times [IM or email for details]
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Xs
Xs Andree: Namaste, all
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but other than that, I'd like to leave open space for anything anyone might like to bring up
Bleu (bleu.oleander): we need 2 more topics?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yes... how do people feel about how topics are going, generally?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Hi Yaku :)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): just a question...is [name ommited] a friend or a pabber?...not sure if I can open emails
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): hey everyone
Sunshine (szavanna): Yakuji °͜°
Bleu (bleu.oleander): hey Yaku
Agatha Macbeth: Yo Yak
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): hello Yaku
Bleu (bleu.oleander): :)
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Hey, Yaku.
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello fellow traveller- yaku
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Yaku
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Oh, yes he is a pab guardian... and it seems his email was hijacked
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): so don't open emails from him
Agatha Macbeth: QT?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal) nods
Aphrodite Macbain: oh?
Agatha Macbeth: Right
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ok, thank you!! I have a mix with all the names, sorry
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): not uncommon for YAHOO email accounts, unfortunately.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): this happened on another account a few weeks ago
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but for some reason, this time I got a weird message from the pab list this morning too
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): which didn't happen last time
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): I sent a message through the PaB list this morning.
Aphrodite Macbain: creepy
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yes me too... so just be careful.. I think Storm has taken care of it to the extent able
San (santoshima): no, virus, likely
San (santoshima): auto emails
San (santoshima): from some guardian's computer
Aphrodite Macbain: auto emails - I prefer Vespas
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): you have sent a message answering the one of [ ], Bruce...I have not opened it either
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Yes, that's the one I sent.
San (santoshima): it's for Viagra
Aphrodite Macbain: I got that one too
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): I didn't get the Viagra one.
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): hahah :)))
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): (don't need it!)
Aphrodite Macbain: who is [ ]- the name is familiar
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I did, seemed fine.. but I didn't open the strange one from the pab email list.... that may have come only to group managers/moderators
San (santoshima): just throw it out
Agatha Macbeth: Me either ;-)
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): QT.
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): (Italy)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): (I will edit his RL name from the log before posting)
San (santoshima): yes
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ok
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): so this happens with yahoo more often possibly Bruce?
Irish Tea: whispers: Ahh tea, irish whiskey and cream....oh ya...now this is good, Agatha Macbeth. You know they say that God invented whiskey so the Irish would not take over the world. Well this is a fine way to serve it.
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): I have three RL friends whom it happened to.
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): all had YAHOO accounts.
Bleu (bleu.oleander): yikes
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): all changed to GMAIL.
Bleu (bleu.oleander): good idea
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): ah, ty... may be anecdotal evidence but good to note
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): There's clearly some vulnerability in YAHOO email -- and this has been going on for at least 2 1/2 years.
Agatha Macbeth: Yahoo
Bleu (bleu.oleander): ha
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Are there other concerns or matters to raise before moving onto topics?
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Just one, Eliza.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal) listens
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): This week we will have the last WG session for current members.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): ah, yes!
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): so, we're looking for replacements, there.
Bleu (bleu.oleander): oh good thank you Bruce
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): yw.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): thanks so much Bruce.... blaring matter missed on my part :)
Bleu (bleu.oleander): me too ... sleepy still
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): So did everyone see Bleu's email this week, regarding the next WG?
Bleu (bleu.oleander) goes for coffee refill
Bruce (bruce.mowbray) scoots to kitchen for coffee refill.
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): snap.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal) laughs
Bleu (bleu.oleander): snap
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :))
Agatha Macbeth: Erk
Bleu (bleu.oleander): yahoo
San (santoshima): nope
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Basically, the group changes its make up every 6 months....
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and it is time again
San (santoshima): oh, yes, that one
Bleu (bleu.oleander): we only meet once a month
Bleu (bleu.oleander): so not too much time involved
Aphrodite Macbain: I will be going off as a plain old member
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Thank you so much to the current WG for being so attentive
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :::::claps::::::
Sunshine (szavanna): °͜°
Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes thanks to all who participate
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles at Bleu and Bruce
Agatha Macbeth: Yes, thank you all
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes, ty very much:)
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): I will also be going off the WG.
Zen (zen.arado): thanks to WG
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): we can talk about most things openly, but for matters that need to be gone into in a focused way, I'm so glad we have the WG and those willing to be available and vocal and decisive :))
Aphrodite Macbain: we are good at being vocal
Bleu (bleu.oleander): and available
Zen (zen.arado): but decisive?
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Bleu (bleu.oleander): we can be
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): ha ha!
Aphrodite Macbain: when pushed
Agatha Macbeth pushes Aph
Sunshine (szavanna): ;p
Aphrodite Macbain: erff
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): the guardian sessions are a working group in a way, but yes I think we've seen the WG come through with clarity on many occasions
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): so thank you all
Xs Andree: What is WG?
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Working Group.
Aphrodite Macbain: working group
Xs Andree: okay.
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): We find wrinkles in PaB and try to iron them out.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): let me find the link to the wiki page that describes the history and posts the minutes...
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): they take care that the group is working fine...they work behind scenes:)
Bleu (bleu.oleander): http://wiki.playasbeing.org/Guardian_Pages/Working_Group
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): thanks Bleu :) fast fingers (my browser needs coffee today too)
Bleu (bleu.oleander): :)
Chocolate Chai: whispers: The highest quality Valrohna cocoa from France with cinnamon, cardamom, nutmeg and cloves...luscious chocolatiness, sweet spices...Made fresh just for you, Santoshima Resident, to enjoy!
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): so it is a good idea to have at least 5 people each round
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I'd consider taking part again but would need to change the time if so
Bleu (bleu.oleander): happy to change time
Bleu (bleu.oleander): would love to have you Eliza
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): thanks Bleu :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): so the process for inquiry or volunteering is to email a current WG member
Bleu (bleu.oleander): not sure who is staying from current group
Bleu (bleu.oleander): Bruce?
Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce and I aren't
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): reminder emails will go out too, and maybe next guardian session we'll have a clearer idea...
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :((
Bleu (bleu.oleander): or come to this weeks mtg Eliza
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): I've been in the WG for three consecutive terms. . . time to give others a chance.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): aw, thank you both so much
Aphrodite Macbain: I'll do other things instead.:-)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Ah, yes so 11:30 PM SLT Wed Bleu?
Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes, thanks so much Aph and Bruce
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes, thanks you both
Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes
Aphrodite Macbain: It's been fun
Bleu (bleu.oleander): wed 11:30 slt
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): and THANKS to Bleu, too!
Bleu (bleu.oleander): is Steve staying?
Aphrodite Macbain: it's a good way to know PaB better
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): you can be TPed to the conference room by an existing member... just IM
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): We''ll ask Steve this week.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yes... I think he said that he would, depending on time of meeting
Zen (zen.arado): perhaps some of us could come to see what's involved?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I agree... being in the WG really tunes one in to the details
druth Vlodovic: I love the way the admin for this sim is chosen :)
Bleu (bleu.oleander): I'm happy to stay but don't want to take the place of someone else who wants to give it a try
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): good idea Zen
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :) druth
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Just IM any WG member on Wednesday -- 11:30 a.m. slt, and we'll beam you over.
Bleu (bleu.oleander): I'd like to change the mtg time also Eliza
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): ah, okay.. so for others who may have hesitated due to the meeting time, this is good to know
Bleu (bleu.oleander): that's the first agenda item
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): WG mtg. time could be easily changed to accommodate new members.
Bleu (bleu.oleander): agree on time for mtg
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I have to break the barrier and giggle that there was a an email that Bleu was the only one to make one meeting and everyone thought "oh for sure something will get done" heheh
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): that's the spirit of things :) playful
Bleu (bleu.oleander): haha
Coffee Mug: whispers: Ahh! Fresh Hot Coffee
Bleu (bleu.oleander): me myself and I
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :))
Bleu (bleu.oleander): great mtg! ha
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): hahaha
Sunshine (szavanna): :)
San (santoshima): Bleu, can there be more than 5 on the WG?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): definitely
Bleu (bleu.oleander): I think so yes
San (santoshima): then i would like to join
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): oh, sorry ::sits on hands and lets bleu answer:::
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): There were 6 on the very first WG, I think.
San (santoshima): but only if it means Bleu can stay on
Bleu (bleu.oleander): ah great San!
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): great
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): GREAT, San!
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): snap.
San (santoshima): what day/time are the mtgs again?
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ty San!
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): 11:30 slt on Wednesday -- once a month.
Bleu (bleu.oleander): so we have Eliza, Steve (maybe), San, me and ....?
San (santoshima): mhmm
San (santoshima): i work until noon on wed
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but we'll revisit the times San
Agatha Macbeth: What about Alf?
San (santoshima): ok, ty
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I'm not able to make that time either
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): can easily change the time. . .
Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes when we see who's participating we'll pick a good mtg time
Aphrodite Macbain: we can decide this at the meeting on Wednesday
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): So we have about 30 minutes left...
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Shall we move to topics?
Bruce (bruce.mowbray) listens.
Bleu (bleu.oleander): so Art of Being?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): oh...sure
Bleu (bleu.oleander): session next Sunday at noon :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): wow snuck up
Bleu (bleu.oleander): sorry had to squeeze that in there
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): ^^
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes...we will not forget it!!
Bleu (bleu.oleander): the projects are amazing so far
Bleu (bleu.oleander): take a look :)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): a lot of creativity in PaB :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I'm hesitant to look... part of me wants to save them for the day
Bleu (bleu.oleander): really proud of all the teams!!
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I will go have a look...I am too curious:)
Bleu (bleu.oleander): fabulous efforts
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Xs have you seen the art of being dome yet?
Xs Andree: No, not yet. This is only the second time I've heard of it.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): one of the rail stops is right there, next to Kira Japan
Sunshine (szavanna): it's a must see °͜°
Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes!
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): next Sunday we'll have a grand event :) is it noon?
Bleu (bleu.oleander): looks great so far!
Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes noon slt
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): regarding topics, does anyone have something of personal interest they'd like the group to muse with a bit?
Agatha Macbeth muses
I lost the string a bit here, think others did too, but we find a few edges of clarity eventually...
Bleu (bleu.oleander): how about "deception"?
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ah interesting!
Bleu (bleu.oleander): had such a fascinating program on that yesterday
Xs Andree: Desire and Possession
Bleu (bleu.oleander): good for Halloween too :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): interesting... Rhi had a session on that too this weekend... self-deception
Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes self-deception very interesting
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): desire and possession...also a lot to talk about it
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): "Is it possible to lie to yourself?"
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): really like both
Bleu (bleu.oleander): complacency ... may be interesting
Xs Andree: I like that one.
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): self deception and complacency are very close
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): sure can be
Bleu (bleu.oleander): interesting!
Xs Andree: I think combining them, though, changes the context significantly
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): in an opposite sense:)
Bleu (bleu.oleander): Bruce ... yes!
Bleu (bleu.oleander): agree Xs
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): desire and possession are within deception? then complacency the following week?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): would you say more of what you are considering re desire and possession Xiri?
Xs Andree: It might be more productive to treat each seperately before combining them.
Bleu (bleu.oleander): agree
druth Vlodovic: the less guidance they are goven the more scope they retain
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I see 'deception and complacency' are related
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): and in a different topic..'desire and possession' too
Xs Andree: desires are the wants of the heart. when we desire something, we desire things we do not have.
San (santoshima): please see Storm's comments in recent chats re topics chosen ~
San (santoshima): i'll find a date
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): what did he say, San?
San (santoshima): to refer to
San (santoshima): hang on
San (santoshima): brb
Xs Andree: and when we have what we desire, we might desire to retain it, to keep it, to possess it, which is different than the desire to have it.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): he felt that he doesn't always relate to topics... if I remember...
Zen (zen.arado): attachment
Bleu (bleu.oleander): how are you seeing deception and complacency related?
Xs Andree: yet we cannot continue to keep anything, everything changes, sometimes into passing.
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): no political advocacy in the Pavilion - - other place, OK. Like the pub or individual Pabber plots.
Agatha Macbeth: Or the café
Xs Andree: who is politically advocating?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Desire is endless... always an amazing topic to me...
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Yes, any of those places where there is no auto-logger
Aphrodite Macbain: me too
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): self-deception = feeling bad with what you have achieved.... complacency...feeling satisfied (but not sure if you proposed it in this sense)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): interesting
druth Vlodovic: well, the themes are just suggestions, not rules, so I have never seen them as restrictive
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yes... open ended
druth Vlodovic: or even launching points
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): often just springboards
What is self-deception...
Bleu (bleu.oleander): self deception is lying to yourself in an unconscious way
Zen (zen.arado): self-deception is more feeling too pleased with what we achieved I think:)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): San is referencing a different chat re Storm
San (santoshima): ok, here's the link
San (santoshima): https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2012/10/2012.10.11_07%3a00_-_An_obstacle_or_a_highway_to_insight%3f
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes, I also see it like druth... and plus, I see myself as a guardian just to give information about the group to new people...not leading any discussion :)
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): kk, thanks San.
San (santoshima): yw
Xs Andree: or justification for doing what we know we should not. I think that is the most common form of self-deception
druth Vlodovic: or believeing you know to the point you don't realize that you have stopped looking for answers, but maybe we should save the actual discussion for the pavilion :)
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): ;-)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): deception should last us the week for sure!
Xs Andree: when we make exceptions for compromising our values in order to gain what we desire
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :)
San (santoshima): maybe a lifetime
Bleu (bleu.oleander): must go ... take care all ... i'll read the log and put up the new topics
Eliza (eliza.madrigal) grins
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Thanks Bleu
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): TY, Bleu!
San (santoshima): bye, Bleu ~ tahnks for everything
Aphrodite Macbain: bye bLeu
San (santoshima): thanks
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): bye bye Bleu! take care:)
Agatha Macbeth: Bye Bleu
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): thx bleu
Bleu (bleu.oleander): sorry to leave early
Zen (zen.arado): bye Bleu
Sunshine (szavanna): take care Bleu
Bleu (bleu.oleander): take a look at the dome
Bleu (bleu.oleander): byee
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): oki
Xs Andree: We were asked to expand on our topics. I'm not certain how we can expand on them without a little discussion
Xs Andree: We had a difficult topic last week, absence and dark matters
Eliza (eliza.madrigal) nods
Xs Andree: many of the gaurdians weren't certain how to approach the subject when no one else had any ideas on it either
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and some of the conversations that appeared were quite surprising... and touching in some cases
Xs Andree: absence is a difficult topic though to focus on.
San (santoshima): the topic is absent?
Xs Andree nods
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yesterday Bruce and Korel talked about absence of cohesive family narratives
San (santoshima): ah
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I found that moving and relevant
Bruce (bruce.mowbray) remembers "Absence of family narratives" from yesterday...
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but couldn't have expected it or suggested it... so there is a difficult line in framing
Bruce (bruce.mowbray) likes it when the topic's substance emerges from the discussion itself.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but practically, yes I think there is a desire to get a bit more of a handle
Xs Andree: all the guardians have a different style. I've appreciated this. It lets the same topic come from different approaches...and sometimes a topic is just set aside.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yes so let's take one at a time/me nods
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes....the topic is just a suggestion....
Xs Andree: /me nods
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): oops... that was a line from eons agog
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): ago*
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Agatha Macbeth is agog
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): we're all agreed on deception
Sunshine (szavanna): Aga :)
Bruce (bruce.mowbray) relates to agog.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): heheh
druth Vlodovic: lol
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): heheh lol...I am lost now:))
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): lost and agog
Sunshine (szavanna): Thats normal for me hehe "being lost"
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :))
Agatha Macbeth: Gog and Magog
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): @@
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): me too...lately:))
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): This week: "Deception" Next week: "Complacency" ???
Aphrodite Macbain: we could continue with a theme if we want
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yes Xiri happy you made it today :)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ty, Eliza:)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Sounds right, Bruce... and allowing for individual hosts to frame as they like... or visitors, etc
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I'd like to come back to desire and possession though, at some point... wasn't sure how that fits in
San (santoshima): perfume?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Xs Andree: It came to me after reading symposium, it is something I've been struggling with for most of the year.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): possession, Xs?
Xs Andree: I have a lot of self control, but it arises out of conflict.
Xs Andree: Desire, mostly. Much of my life has been sensual while seeking spiritual answers.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): interesting...
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): a lot of problems betwen couples come from 'the idea of 'possession'
Sunshine (szavanna): yes hmm
Zen (zen.arado): I have to go
Zen (zen.arado): byee all
San (santoshima): me too
San (santoshima): bye
Sunshine (szavanna): take care Zenji
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): bye zen,san
Agatha Macbeth waves
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): bye to those leaving :)
Sunshine (szavanna): I must go also
Aphrodite Macbain: Ok I think I'll go too
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): ok, everyone :)
Sunshine (szavanna): enjoy your sundays :)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): bye bye Zen! take care and see you soon
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): I need to get going to Quacker Mtg.
Aphrodite Macbain: I am going to possess some breakfast
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): enjoy Bruce
Bruce (bruce.mowbray): THANK Eliza, and everyone.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): THANKS everyone
druth Vlodovic: have fun guys
druth Vlodovic: eek!
More on desire...
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): desire... this is a key topic in every topic I feel
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ok...I also go...have a nice day all...and see you soon!
Xs Andree: I've found that to be true as well, eliza
Agatha Macbeth: Adios Xira
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): okay Xiri, thanks for input today
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): hasta pronto!! :))
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I once described my spiritual path as hierarchy of desires... meaning... hm, I do 'not' have self control but one pleasure may supplant another intentionally
Agatha Macbeth: Hasta porno :p
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): hahaha
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :))
Agatha Macbeth grins
Xs Andree: I saw a quote related to Buddhism once which made me take pause
Xs Andree: "A man says to Buddha 'I want happiness'"
Xs Andree: And Buddha replies
Xs Andree: First remove "I" it is ego
Xs Andree: and then "want" for it is desire
Xs Andree: And happiness will remain
Eliza (eliza.madrigal) smiles
Agatha Macbeth: Like that
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): left with gratitude... 'heaven itself'
Xs Andree: I'm not sure how i feel about it, but it gave me pause, it still does.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I feel rather the same, re not sure....
Xs Andree nods
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): running into the gap between aspiration and actualization
Xs Andree: There are things i think we should desire.
Xs Andree: But, I've found that clinging to them makes me unhappy
Xs Andree: and i wonder...how much is my own personal happiness worth to me?
Xs Andree: Am I willing to be happy no matter what? Should I be angry at some things? Can I be happy and still be moved to change what I know is unfair?
Xs Andree: Is my morality even accurate?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): good questions
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): yes
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): i guess most of us grasp for answers on those subjects
Xs Andree: I do want the answers. I'm kind of on pause in my life until I get them. It is a conflict i've always had
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): there is a little story that ends "the problem is not desire, but that your desires are too small"... have thought of that with regard to aspirations...
Agatha Macbeth: Oh dear
Xs Andree grins
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): that a desire that encompasses 'all beings' is quite a happy desire perhaps... then no need to worry with ego, takes care of itself
Xs Andree: so much of life is contradiction, and resolution to paradox, a good friend of mine said, is the mark of genius
Xs Andree: I wish I could see that, Eliza
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): how do you feel your life is on hold? some sense that it is time to *stop* until clarity?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): gather no more, as it were?
Xs Andree: If I could see how these two conflicts had no conflict, then I could visualize easier the things I know I should be. Manifest them into the world with peace instead of violence.
Xs Andree: The answer would be simple, and it could come to be.
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): se lah
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): ::tears up a bit:::
Agatha Macbeth pokes Liz
Eliza (eliza.madrigal) smiles and cries at same time :P
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): lol
Agatha Macbeth: I do that too
Xs Andree: what are these words you guys use sometimes
Xs Andree: like that, Se La
Xs Andree: se lah, I mean
Xs Andree: I've used them without understanding what they mean
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I hear it as *stops to deeply consider*
Xs Andree: and when I try, then the words lose their power
Agatha Macbeth: Words are tricky things
Agatha Macbeth: should always take care with them
Xs Andree: many others recognize them when they hear me speak them, but they too don't know where from
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): hmmm
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): containers... and then we ask for what... what are we containing or sharing
Xs Andree nods
Agatha Macbeth: I don't really ask for anything
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): do you have sense of your motivations Agatha?
Agatha Macbeth: Dunno what my motivations are :p
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Xs Andree grins
Xs Andree: I like that, Agatha.
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe when I stop looking they'll find me
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): ♥ ♥ ♥
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): ♥ ♥ ♥
Agatha Macbeth: ♥
Agatha Macbeth: Anyways
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): anyways.... :)
Agatha Macbeth: Have fun everyone
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): thank you friends
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): see you later ^^
Agatha Macbeth: U2 babe
Xs Andree waves
Agatha Macbeth: Shalom
Xs Andree: vea nah
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): bye the 3 of you
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My belief is that nobody experiences the ultimate rapture, because it’s beyond pairs of opposites, so if anyone did, there’d be nobody there anyhow. Jung is amusing on that point. "If you go beyond subject and object," he wonders, "who is there to have the experience?" I think to give oneself a ground for anything other than monastic living, all one has to do is realize that such a thing is implied; that is to say, a mystery that is beyond subject, object, and all pairs of opposites is the mystery on the ground of which we ride.
When the physicist explores the depths of the atom or the outer reaches of space, he discovers pairs of opposites and mysteries that science hasn’t been able to penetrate. When it does penetrate to the next level, it’s still mysterious. They’ve got so many sub-atomic particles. One is named after Joyce’s "quark."It seems to me that’s about as mysterious as you can get. There is the transcendent. Know it’s there, and then don’t worry about it. Simply behold the radiance everywhere.
- Joseph Campbell in A Joseph Campbell Companion: Reflections on the Art of Living