2011.05.21 13:00 - Taoism and its friends

The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Ric
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi
Ricfender Resident: hello
Aphrodite Macbain: have you been here before?
Ricfender Resident: yes for the 1st time yesterday
Aphrodite Macbain: welcome
Ricfender Resident: thank you!
Aphrodite Macbain: You have just arrived recently in second life?
Ricfender Resident: small turnout today
Ricfender Resident: yes last week
Aphrodite Macbain: yes. it is usually quiet on Saturdays. Maybe 3-4 people come by
Ricfender Resident: this is a cool thing though
Aphrodite Macbain: everyone is catching up on their life on Saturday
Aphrodite Macbain: yes. Did you have an interesting discussion yesterday?
Ricfender Resident: well, i kinda came in late and then had to go because I only had a few before an appointment
Aphrodite Macbain: ah. well- it was good you found us!
Ricfender Resident: but yes it was nice
Ricfender Resident: thanks
Ricfender Resident: I thing it was a search on Taoism
Aphrodite Macbain: are you from North America?
Ricfender Resident: yes florida, you?
Aphrodite Macbain: Vancouver Canada
Ricfender Resident: I was there once, lots of interesting things your way
Aphrodite Macbain: when were you here? during the Olympics?
Ricfender Resident: no about 7 years ago. just a vacation in BC
Aphrodite Macbain: nice
Ricfender Resident: it was
Aphrodite Macbain: Are you interested in Taoism?
Ricfender Resident: Victoria, Seatle, Oregon
Aphrodite Macbain: Are
Ricfender Resident: yes,
Ricfender Resident: buddism, yoga
Ricfender Resident: lot's of eastern thought
Aphrodite Macbain: have you been studying it?
Ricfender Resident: Yoga, I have had some formal training, taoism, none, buddism, some
Aphrodite Macbain: sounds like me!
Ricfender Resident: I guess I take from all kinds of stuff
Aphrodite Macbain: Buddhism, meditation and yoga go together
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Qt
Ricfender Resident: yes they do!
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Xirana
Ricfender Resident: hello
Xirana Oximoxi: hi to all:)
Aphrodite Macbain: I know little of Taoism but think it also relates to Buddhism in some way
Ricfender Resident: agreed
Aphrodite Macbain: Lovely dress Xirana
Xirana Oximoxi: ty:)
Ricfender Resident: but yet still a bit of it's own
Ricfender Resident: hello
Aphrodite Macbain: Xirana, Qt, this is Ric, he just joined us yesterday
Ricfender Resident: hello
Qt Core: good, welcome Ric
Ricfender Resident: thanks
Xirana Oximoxi: nice to meet you Ric:)
Aphrodite Macbain: How are things in Milan Qt?
Ricfender Resident: same here, peace to you
Qt Core: quite good, ty, and on your side of the globe ?
Aphrodite Macbain: well, it's softly raining after three lovely days of sunshine
Aphrodite Macbain: Xirana, Qt, Ric and I were talking about our interests in Buddhism, yoga and meditation
Ricfender Resident: and Taoism
Aphrodite Macbain: but are not too sure how Taoism relates to Buddhism
Aphrodite Macbain: Do either of yu know much about Taoism?
Ricfender Resident: It was my first introduction into eastern thought about 25 years ago
Aphrodite Macbain listens
Qt Core: not really
Ricfender Resident: there are so many translations of the Tao Te Ching that finding a good one is important
Aphrodite Macbain: Is that where most of Taoist teaching comes from?
Xirana Oximoxi: since I come to Pab, I'm also interested in all this subjects .. more curious than other thing, soon I will have more time and will try to read about it... I'm not relgious, but meditation is a good practice for everyone
Ricfender Resident: true
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: meditation is a practice of Buddhism but it doesn't need to be part of a religious practice - much like yoga
Ricfender Resident: agreed
Xirana Oximoxi: I agree too:)
Aphrodite Macbain: :-) we are all very agreeable
Xirana Oximoxi: :))
Aphrodite Macbain: I have ben reading a book by Pema Chodron, called Comfortable with Uncertainty
Xirana Oximoxi: the title (of the Chodron book) is really suggesting for how things work in our society actually
Ricfender Resident: The tao te ching translation I like the best is by Archie Bahm
Aphrodite Macbain: Do you read it in order to help your practice or out of interest only Ric?
Ricfender Resident: at the time I found it, I was in need of a new way, It kinda started me on my spiritual journey
Aphrodite Macbain: what was it about it that got you started?
Ricfender Resident: i was raised christian and none of what I was taught seemed to be what was...
Ricfender Resident: I dabbled in LSD and found no answers there either
Ricfender Resident: enter the tao
Aphrodite Macbain smiles
Xirana Oximoxi: well, probably in China things are working like in all 'occidental' societies today... you have nothing for sure, job, partner, .. everything can change quick
Aphrodite Macbain: but it was written hundreds of years ago
Ricfender Resident: the thing about Taoism that rings loudest is near the beginning where it talks about the tao being nothing like it's definition ever could be
Aphrodite Macbain: I guess what we need to to is pull out the universal truths
Qt Core: then it was even worse, no protection from floods, caresties, monsoon,
Aphrodite Macbain: interesting Ric
Ricfender Resident: words and concepts are not the "thing" we are talking about
Ricfender Resident: they become new realities unto themselves
Aphrodite Macbain: right; can you say more Ric?
Ricfender Resident: well, chair. A chair each of us know what it is but do we see the same chair?
Ricfender Resident: now let's try to say god
Aphrodite Macbain: ah the fact that our subjectivity shapes how we see things?
Ricfender Resident: do we see the same god?
Ricfender Resident: true
Xirana Oximoxi: Aph, you have read it, do you think it helps to live in our quick changing days?
Xirana Oximoxi: I'm talking about 'Comfortable with Uncertainty'
Aphrodite Macbain: oh - it really helps Xirana
Ricfender Resident: I like that "comfortable with uncertainty."Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Hokon
Hokon Cazalet: hiya =)
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Hokon:)
Aphrodite Macbain: GTSY
Hokon Cazalet: Weeee! ^.^
Ricfender Resident: hello
Aphrodite Macbain: hehe
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Qt Core: hi Hokon
Hokon Cazalet: hola
Aphrodite Macbain: yes, it talks about how to be a courageous Boddhisatva warrior and look reality in the eye rather than escaping from it
Ricfender Resident: there is a taoist saying... you cannot uncover mind with mind... but what else is there?
Aphrodite Macbain: a realization that you can't
Aphrodite Macbain: but to do your best perhaps
Ricfender Resident: or perhaps a question that doen't need to be answered
Aphrodite Macbain: Hokon, we're talking about Taoism
Hokon Cazalet: oh cool
Hokon Cazalet: ty
Aphrodite Macbain: we are all beginners - just beginning to learn about it
Ricfender Resident: Like any tool it can help you or hurt you
Aphrodite Macbain: What is the tool? The teaching?
Ricfender Resident: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: How can the teaching hurt you?
Ricfender Resident: well, if you apply it incorrectly
Aphrodite Macbain: ah. Ok
Aphrodite Macbain: can you give an example?
Ricfender Resident: if you misunderstand it
--BELL--
Ricfender Resident: If I believe I am correct in my view on say, the way the universe works, Then I act as if I know, but that does not constitute knowing it at all
Ricfender Resident: I only act as if I know
Aphrodite Macbain: I have a hard time applying the teachings of Buddhism to my own life. The language is so full of abstracts statements and metaphors that it is difficult to know how to act.
Ricfender Resident: true
Ricfender Resident: many layers
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Zen GTSY
Xirana Oximoxi: I go now... see you all soon :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! Xirana
Xirana Oximoxi: bye:)
Qt Core: Bye Xirana
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks for coming by
Ricfender Resident: peace
Zen Arado: bye Xirana
Hokon Cazalet: bye xirana
Hokon Cazalet: hi zen =)
Qt Core: Hi Zen
Zen Arado: Hi all :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Zen. We're talking about Taoism and Buddhism and how to apply it to our real lives
Zen Arado: good
Ricfender Resident: or our second life!
Aphrodite Macbain: the language is abstract and metaphorical

Zen Arado: good luck
Ricfender Resident: right
Aphrodite Macbain grins
Qt Core: so you spend time trying to understand it and not doing something worse ;-)
Aphrodite Macbain: right Qt
Aphrodite Macbain: Have you changed your way of being in the world as a result of yur practise Zen?
Zen Arado: your practice changes you Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: yes?
Aphrodite Macbain: how?
Aphrodite Macbain: how has it changed you, do you think?
Zen Arado: well...how do you judge that?
Zen Arado: the judge has changed too
Aphrodite Macbain: I don't know
Ricfender Resident: no control group to compare it to
Zen Arado: like a drunk man thinks he is sober
Ricfender Resident: yep
Zen Arado: think I am calmer now
Zen Arado: not upset
Aphrodite Macbain: you can face difficulties more easily?
Zen Arado: not upset so easily I was going to say
Aphrodite Macbain: equanamous
Aphrodite Macbain: sp?
Zen Arado: I don't let the past linger so long
Zen Arado: come back into the present
Aphrodite Macbain: and if the present is turbulent?
Ricfender Resident: a key there- the present is all there really is
Zen Arado: it hasn't improved my typing though :(
Aphrodite Macbain grins
Ricfender Resident: lol
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Aphrodite Macbain: but you don't get upset about it
Aphrodite Macbain: :)
Zen Arado: still start thinking about things
Zen Arado: but it passes more quickly
Ricfender Resident: attachment!
Aphrodite Macbain: Has it influenced your actions and decisions you make?
Zen Arado: yeh can detach easier
Zen Arado: I tend to go with the flow of things more instead of being a control freak
Aphrodite Macbain: I fear that if I am too detached I am also not so engaged with the world
Ricfender Resident: like a river
Aphrodite Macbain: passive
Aphrodite Macbain: hard to be passive AND a warrior
Aphrodite Macbain: warrior
Zen Arado: no...accepting but not passive
Ricfender Resident: it depends on what is called for
Aphrodite Macbain: nice distinction Zen
Qt Core: suppose knowing is not attachment
Aphrodite Macbain: no - knowing is neutral
Zen Arado: http://dev.redwerks.org/ettv/2011/05/finding-balance/
Zen Arado: Eckhart Tolle article
Zen Arado: about that
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Zen
Aphrodite Macbain: Have you seen him speak?
Zen Arado: no
Aphrodite Macbain: He lives in Vancouver!
Zen Arado: I know
Aphrodite Macbain: but I've never seen him speak
Zen Arado: he makes big money nowadays
Aphrodite Macbain: yes, so I gather
Hokon Cazalet wishes she could make money selling ideas in books
Aphrodite Macbain smiles at Hokon
Aphrodite Macbain: Don't people do that all the time Hokon?
Aphrodite Macbain: I saw a video of one of his retreat talks
Zen Arado: his talks can be fun
Aphrodite Macbain: I didn't warm to him but what he was saying was interesting
Zen Arado: he says the same things as most of them
--BELL--
Wol Euler: hello everyone
Hokon Cazalet: hiya =)
Ricfender Resident: hi
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Wol
Qt Core: Hi WOl
Zen Arado: Hi Wol :)
Zen Arado: yes Hokon
Hokon Cazalet: yup they do aphrodite
Zen Arado: Eckhart Tolle repackages Eastern philosophies ...like Zen Advaita
Zen Arado: he is good at it too I think
Zen Arado: and entertaining
 

Aphrodite Macbain: We're talking about Buddhism and its applications Wol.
Wol Euler: ty
Aphrodite Macbain: and also about Taoism
 

Hokon Cazalet: I hope to do that with ancient greek ideas =)
Aphrodite Macbain: I am wondering how something so abstract and metaphoric can be applied to our lives
Hokon Cazalet: it is odd how that happens
Aphrodite Macbain: Zen - he makes me think of an impish elf. He chuckles a lot!
Zen Arado: Niomachean repackaged
Hokon Cazalet: hehe zen
Zen Arado: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Zen - can you define that?
Zen Arado: there is a Neo-aristotellianism already
Hokon Cazalet: yup ive heard a bit about it
Zen Arado: no Aph
Zen Arado: forgotten it
Aphrodite Macbain: ah. Nice sounding word tho
Zen Arado: but it is about Virtue ethics
Hokon Cazalet: nichomacheian is the title of one of Aristotle's works on ethics, the term itself is somebody's name
Zen Arado: ah yes
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Hokon
Zen Arado: eudaimonia
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Aphrodite Macbain: So Tolle is about ethics?
Zen Arado: cultivatying the virtues
Hokon Cazalet: flourishing / happiness (not to be confused with sense-pleasure)
Aphrodite Macbain: sounds a bit prudish to me...
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: it is a good system I think
Zen Arado: but if we practice Buddhism we are doing that
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Hokon Cazalet: only cuz of what the words have become, virtue for aristotle just meant excellence
Aphrodite Macbain: not getting hooked into it any way
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: cultivate our good qualities
Ricfender Resident: words and meanings, who can tell?
 

Wol Euler excuses herself and slips quietly away
Hokon Cazalet: aw
Hokon Cazalet: byebyes
Aphrodite Macbain: was it something I said Wol?
Hokon Cazalet: no maybe me, i have a habit of sometimes veering the topics here off to other places
Aphrodite Macbain: - sometimes those places are very interesting Hokon
Hokon Cazalet: hehe ty, i think so =P
Zen Arado: probably got an invite somewhere:)
 

Hungrry for love

Hokon Cazalet: or she was hungry =)
Hokon Cazalet: like i am
Aphrodite Macbain: That's usually my reason for leaving..
Zen Arado: hungry for love?
Hokon Cazalet: for pizza
Zen Arado: song title?
Ricfender Resident: ya
Aphrodite Macbain: I just had a pile of pancakes and maple syrup and bacon and I'm still hungry
Hokon Cazalet: yummy!
Aphrodite Macbain: Hungry for love, life and pancakes
Ricfender Resident: YEA
Ricfender Resident: and tea
Aphrodite Macbain: maybe an other song title?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes tea. Have just discovered pu-er tea
Hokon Cazalet: food is the material or substance of life, to live is to eat; i eat therefore i am (my sister a few years ago lol)
Aphrodite Macbain: delish
Ricfender Resident: I have a tea fetish
Aphrodite Macbain: hehe Hokon
Hokon Cazalet: hehe my sister is always goofy :Þ
Aphrodite Macbain: yes? how is that manifested?
Aphrodite Macbain: yr tea fetish.

Ricfender Resident: only consumption
Aphrodite Macbain: do you drink tea constantly Ric?
 

Hokon Cazalet: wb zen
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi again Zen
Zen Arado: ty
Ricfender Resident: Hi again Zen, another song title of koan
Aphrodite Macbain: I see you've been visiting Paradise again Zen
Zen Arado: how do you know that Aph?
Aphrodite Macbain: It's in the text above yr head
Zen Arado: what is?
Aphrodite Macbain: the supertext

Zen Arado: I haven't got the tag showing?

Qt Core: i have to go, bye all and have fun... tea and pizza
Aphrodite Macbain: are you off Qt?
Hokon Cazalet: hiya stevenaia =) bye Qt
Qt Core: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: Ciao & arrivaderci
Ricfender Resident: hello
Qt Core: Ciao!
Zen Arado: bye Qt
Hokon Cazalet: i should get food, im hungry
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya sun!
Sunshine Vayandar: hi there ;)
Zen Arado: Hi Sun :)
Hokon Cazalet: hi =)
Ricfender Resident: been lovely, peace and love to you all!
Hokon Cazalet: bye ric
Sunshine Vayandar: Hi Hokon, Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: great to talk with you Ric
Sunshine Vayandar: nice to see everyone
Zen Arado: bye Ric
Zen Arado: Hi Steve :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Too bad you weren't here earlier. We were talking about Taoism
Hokon Cazalet: hi stevenaia =)
Sunshine Vayandar: nice to see you Stevie ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: I missed all about the Tao?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: yes Sun Ric, who was here earlier talked about his interest in Taoism and we were discussing it a bit
Zen Arado: yeh but you have to go with the flow :)
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm ok ;) Zensan is right
Hokon Cazalet: ok im gonna go get some food, bbl, nice to see you all again on my new pc =)
Hokon Cazalet: Weeee! ^.^
Sunshine Vayandar: ;))
Zen Arado: yay
Aphrodite Macbain: OK Hokon
Sunshine Vayandar: take care Hokon ;)
Aphrodite Macbain: bon appetit
Hokon Cazalet: yummies
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye!
Sunshine Vayandar: bon appetit ;)
Zen Arado: TC Hokon
Hokon Cazalet waves
 

Sunshine Vayandar: how are you Zen, Aph Stevie?
Sunshine Vayandar: oh Stevie is gone
Sunshine Vayandar: sounds nice
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Zen Arado: um....checking....
Aphrodite Macbain: I think he was having problems
Sunshine Vayandar: I have this - u might like
Zen Arado: seem about slightly higher than middle
Aphrodite Macbain: I was struggling with how to apply theory and teaching into life practice
Zen Arado: mood
stevenaia Michinaga: sorry, bad attempt from my phone
Sunshine Vayandar: higher than middle mood?
Sunshine Vayandar: np Stevie ;)
Zen Arado: so better to just practice and allow it to change you Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: wb steve
stevenaia Michinaga: sorry I missed the Tao discussion
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Barto
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Barto
Barto Etzel: hi
Aphrodite Macbain: been here before?
Aphrodite Macbain: discussion is recorded and put on a public wiki. Is it OK with you that what you say is recorded Barto?
Aphrodite Macbain: Zen Arado: Hi Barto
Barto Etzel: no
Zen Arado: Taoism is incorporated into Zen you know
Zen Arado: mixture of Buddhism and Taoism
stevenaia Michinaga: which came first?
Zen Arado: Taoism I think
Barto Etzel: no problem
Aphrodite Macbain: the chicken
stevenaia Michinaga: hehe
Zen Arado: or maybe Buddhism and Taoism started around the same time
stevenaia Michinaga: I was at my monthly RL Daoist discussion group earlier
Aphrodite Macbain: I think Taoism is older by far
Aphrodite Macbain listens to Steve
Zen Arado: when it moved to China the two met I think
Zen Arado: or was it Japan?
stevenaia Michinaga: I know the i Ching is older than bother the and yin/Yang was present then
Aphrodite Macbain: Taoism is from China
Aphrodite Macbain plays with the term "older than bother" and likes it
Sunshine Vayandar: older than bother hmm ;)
Zen Arado: Buddhism changes with different cultures
stevenaia Michinaga: interesting what I think is sometimes different than what I typer
Zen Arado: there is an Irish Buddhism now
Aphrodite Macbain: Are you able to incorporate the theory from Taoism into your life Stevenaia or is it too abstract or irrelevant now?
Sunshine Vayandar: and African Buddhism
Zen Arado: :)
Zen Arado: with drums :)
stevenaia Michinaga: actually, I have found parallels between my life and taoism, we just found each other
Sunshine Vayandar: yes ;)
stevenaia Michinaga: now I can easily lather taoism all over my life comfortably
Aphrodite Macbain: was it a friendly meeting?
stevenaia Michinaga: like finding a lost friend :)
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: that sounds so nice ;)
Aphrodite Macbain tries to imagine what a layer of Taoism would look like wrapped around Stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: behaving in a way that has already been discussed for thousands of years and you never knew it
Aphrodite Macbain: Is it more"familiar" than Buddhism?
stevenaia Michinaga: lather, like soap or whipped cream
Aphrodite Macbain smiles
Zen Arado: I liked what Eckhart Tolle said about how things seem to happen when you go with the flow
Zen Arado: Sometimes holding that space of simple Presence activates other factors that then come in, seemingly, from the outside to change the situation. You have activated the intelligence of the totality. It’s not necessarily coming through this form. That is why people speak of synchronistic things happening, suddenly a helpful factor comes in, suddenly the right person appears, the right thing happens."
stevenaia Michinaga: when I was trying to understand Buddhism with friends here... there was no "fit"
Sunshine Vayandar: ty Zen ;)
Aphrodite Macbain: so interesting Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: like a suit on a rack, some things fit, some things do not
Aphrodite Macbain wonders how Taoism would fit her
stevenaia Michinaga: Buddahism seems like the sleeves were too long and needed suspenders
Aphrodite Macbain: what was it about Taoism Steve?
Zen Arado: but maybe we have to drop things to allow a fit Steve?
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: or find another rack of suits
Aphrodite Macbain: but there needs to be a will to do that
stevenaia Michinaga: a will and a level of comfort
Zen Arado: there is a right time too I think
Aphrodite Macbain whispers, I have to leave now everyone. yes steve
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Aphrodite
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks for the conversation and insight
Sunshine Vayandar: take care Aph ;)
stevenaia Michinaga: your pants are riped
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: (in the back)
Zen Arado: bye Aph
stevenaia Michinaga: Toaism has also activated a new sense of understanding of poetry, something I never had
stevenaia Michinaga: and yes zen, this could never have happened 10 years ago, yu need to be in the right place at the right time
Zen Arado: I read a book about Buddhism 20 years ago and became a Christian :)
Zen Arado: 30 years ago rather
Sunshine Vayandar: really
Zen Arado: wasn't ready for Buddhism
stevenaia Michinaga: what were you?
Zen Arado: Presbyterian :)
Sunshine Vayandar: I came from a secular background - in Hungary we had no spiritual education at all
Zen Arado: it was drummed into us
Sunshine Vayandar: and I am still 'nothing' lol
Zen Arado: even in school
Zen Arado: yeh I am nothing too
Sunshine Vayandar: ;p
Zen Arado: not a label or category any more
Zen Arado: I practice Zen and read lots of other stuff too
Sunshine Vayandar: I just keep learning as life carries on
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: so long as we allow it to
Sunshine Vayandar: true
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, but I am becoming more patient, no rush ot "get somewhere"
Zen Arado: we can close ourselves off
Zen Arado: yes cos we are there already
Sunshine Vayandar: yes it's good to slow down
Zen Arado: we just allow it
stevenaia Michinaga: Play as Stevie
Zen Arado: yes
Sunshine Vayandar: ;))
Sunshine Vayandar: Play as white zulu
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Zen Arado: play as Zennie being :)
Sunshine Vayandar: hehe that is nice
Sunshine Vayandar: maybe we can exchange ...
Sunshine Vayandar: I could take Zennie being and you take white zulu
 

Fishing

Zen Arado: oh I see I have a heap of fish in my inventory :)
Sunshine Vayandar: or I take Stevie
Sunshine Vayandar: fish?
Zen Arado: uncommon fish
Sunshine Vayandar: i see
Zen Arado: :)
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)) I wonder how it got there
Zen Arado: hmmmm
Sunshine Vayandar: Zen must have been fishing
Zen Arado: so many too :)
Sunshine Vayandar: ;))
Zen Arado: even though some got away
Sunshine Vayandar: anyone for fishing ?
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Sunshine Vayandar: well not many
Zen Arado: and they were the biggest :)
stevenaia Michinaga: catch and release
Sunshine Vayandar: u lured them all in with your Zennie-ness
Zen Arado: my fishing skill
Sunshine Vayandar: have u tried fishing in SL?
Sunshine Vayandar: Stevie or Barto
stevenaia Michinaga: no
Barto Etzel: I tried in RL
Sunshine Vayandar: and how is that
Zen Arado: hey I caught a tuna
Barto Etzel: when I was kid I used to enjoy it
Sunshine Vayandar: kk
Barto Etzel: not anymore
Zen Arado: that's a BIG fish :)
stevenaia Michinaga: there a well stocked pond nearby?
Sunshine Vayandar: have u seen that movie - Big Fish
Barto Etzel: I have
Barto Etzel: it is great
Sunshine Vayandar: yes great film
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: I never tried in RL
stevenaia Michinaga: fishing in the fountain :)
Barto Etzel: that was long ago
Sunshine Vayandar: hehe
Zen Arado: pretty small tuna :)
Sunshine Vayandar: I give you a sample from our catch ;)
Zen Arado: it can be cruel the way they catch tuna
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Mignon ;)
stevenaia Michinaga: feelis like Bruce
Zen Arado: I saw in TV prog one time
Sunshine Vayandar: yes ;)
stevenaia Michinaga: thnks
Sunshine Vayandar: yw ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: what was the program about Zen
Zen Arado: long time ago
--BELL--
Zen Arado: they kinda herded them into nets and stuck spears into them
Zen Arado: the water was red with blood  (editors note: The Cove)
Sunshine Vayandar: ;(
Barto Etzel: I love tuna sashimi
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Zen Arado: gone off it now
Zen Arado: :)
 

Sunshine Vayandar: hmm time for me to go - ty for telling me about the Tao ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: try to see if it fits ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: take care all
Zen Arado: k
Zen Arado: bye Sun
Sunshine Vayandar: see u soon
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Barto Etzel: bye
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: so you are into Taoism Steve?
stevenaia Michinaga: sorry stepped away from some choloate baklava, bye Sun
Zen Arado: np
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, an interesting confluence of SL and RL
stevenaia Michinaga: I was doing yoga for a bit and kept meeting more buddists in SL and RL
Zen Arado: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: then I switch to Tai Chi after leaving the gym where the yoga classes were held
stevenaia Michinaga: and liked the pace bettter
Zen Arado: it's like the right teachings appear when you are ready for them
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: the right teacher appears too
stevenaia Michinaga: then the tao discussions here , learing about Wu Wei, it all made sense
Zen Arado: yeh
Zen Arado: a lot of it is being able to relax and let things happen
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, the path vs the destination
Zen Arado: we are so conditioned to do things and expect results
Zen Arado: do A to get B
stevenaia Michinaga: in my case, do nothing and B arrives
Zen Arado: or a different kind of doing anyway
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, the doing that you can be comfortable with... not doing
Zen Arado: you couldn't stop yourself from doing things I think
Zen Arado: it's what we attach to the doing maybe
stevenaia Michinaga: so many I know insist on pushing back when things don't align... expecting alignment to come from that
Zen Arado: yeh
Barto Etzel: well, very humbly
stevenaia Michinaga: in tai chi, you "step out of way"
Zen Arado: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: the way
Zen Arado: my teacher tells us to get out of our own way
Barto Etzel: not doing things means you abstain from producing reality
stevenaia Michinaga: or... redirect toward harmony
stevenaia Michinaga: reality produces itself
Zen Arado: yes
Barto Etzel: with all due respect, I believe beings make reality
Zen Arado: it's the motive behind it too isn't it?
stevenaia Michinaga: I tend to be highly productive by approching things with intent, not avoidance
Zen Arado: we aren't in control as much as we think
Barto Etzel: yes, we aren't in control of everything
Barto Etzel: but a few things we do have control
stevenaia Michinaga: but the intent is not to beat people over the head with things
stevenaia Michinaga: we have control over ourselves
Zen Arado: we think we have...but do we really?
stevenaia Michinaga: to an extent
Barto Etzel: and over a few things and people around us too
stevenaia Michinaga: I can choose to be here
Barto Etzel: to an extent
Zen Arado: not sure about that even
Zen Arado: but all your choices depend on everything that happened before
Barto Etzel: people can definitely influence other people
--BELL--
Zen Arado: I have to go
Barto Etzel: to some extent they depend on your past history
Zen Arado: no choice :)
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: bye zen
Barto Etzel: By Zen
Zen Arado: ty for interesting discussion
Barto Etzel: I have ideas about choice
Zen Arado: bye
stevenaia Michinaga: sometimes the "big influences are not trying to influence people
Barto Etzel: yes, they simply do
stevenaia Michinaga: nods change w/o intent
stevenaia Michinaga: by example
Barto Etzel: well some other times with intent
Barto Etzel: I do not necessarily agree we have no choice and simply follow our path ´
Barto Etzel: but "intent" is not clear though
stevenaia Michinaga: even if that's the choice?
stevenaia Michinaga: a path is a choice
Barto Etzel: well, there are some realy strange things going on with what we call reality
Barto Etzel: I mean quantum mechanics
stevenaia Michinaga: strange?
stevenaia Michinaga: not sure how that affects my reality
Barto Etzel: there seems to be an element of randomness
stevenaia Michinaga: I am not a physics person
stevenaia Michinaga: what is a physics person, a physician?
Barto Etzel: a physicist
stevenaia Michinaga: duh, ofcourse
stevenaia Michinaga: I digress
Barto Etzel: we all should know a little about it because it tells us things about the world
stevenaia Michinaga: I do know a little, and I suspect it will be more and more important over time and understanding
Barto Etzel: randomness does exist
Barto Etzel: so I think our actions depend on previous history and randomness
stevenaia Michinaga: every "next moment" has a degree of randomness
Barto Etzel: Yes
Barto Etzel: for the good or for the bad
Barto Etzel: we are poker players
Barto Etzel: sucess most of the times means knowing the odds
stevenaia Michinaga: so you can stack the randomness deck in quantum mechanics?
Barto Etzel: seems like the more you can calculate the better, you can Influence the world
Barto Etzel: but perhaps this is only locally in space and time
stevenaia Michinaga: locally? you mean this universe?
Barto Etzel: well, quantum mechanics just teaches you how to compute the probability of how reality will look like at the next moment ´
Barto Etzel: and it is unbelivably accurate
Barto Etzel: locally I mean in your surroundings
Barto Etzel: both in space and time
stevenaia Michinaga: someday we may know what these are
stevenaia Michinaga: (time and space)
Barto Etzel: Just look around and see how humanity has improved it's life expectancy by being able to calculate things
Barto Etzel: In ancient times randomness was killing alot of people
Barto Etzel: too soon
Barto Etzel: Now we act locally
Barto Etzel: seemingly improve our lives
Barto Etzel: but have no clue what we are doing to the planet
Barto Etzel: in the long run
stevenaia Michinaga: time will tell
Barto Etzel: yes, that is out of our control
stevenaia Michinaga: in the long run, there may not be a planet to worry about, it's all relative
 

The rapture ruptures

Barto Etzel: will there be humans ?
stevenaia Michinaga: when the ants take over
stevenaia Michinaga: well it is judgement day after all
stevenaia Michinaga: in 2 minutes we may not exist
Barto Etzel: we don't know
stevenaia Michinaga: 6:00
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
stevenaia Michinaga: one of those random possibilities
Barto Etzel: yes
Barto Etzel: it is like a simulated reality
Barto Etzel: sl and rl - no difference
stevenaia Michinaga: I must got ready for the rapture :)
Barto Etzel: Ok, bye , thanks
stevenaia Michinaga: wonders if I should pack my sunglasses
stevenaia Michinaga: nice talking to you, feel free to come back, we meet every 6 hours
stevenaia Michinaga: 1 & 7

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