The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

I filled in for Eos tonight, SophiaSharon Larnia and the ever quiet Observerm joined us .... sitting with us in the circle on cushions.     An interesting discussion ensued.

stevenaia Michinaga: hello SSL
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Stevenaia :)
stevenaia Michinaga: filling in for Eos tonight, seems quiet
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: how are you?, any tornados by you? we had a small one nearby, just trees down, very big trees
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh wow, no tornados, but random furious bouts of rain that passed and bacame bright sunshine
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: may have been a tornado somewhere
stevenaia Michinaga: seems to be the cycle
SophiaSharon Larnia: it is odd
stevenaia Michinaga: one minute seems like fall, next minute it's summer
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, although its pleasantly cool now :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: i love your dress, reminds me of the outfit I made for one of our art exhibits :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: sans skirt :)
stevenaia Michinaga: it has an optional bussel
SophiaSharon Larnia: :) burlesque style
stevenaia Michinaga: but it's a bit back heavy
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: still not home on an old comp, but took a picture anyway
SophiaSharon Larnia: :))
SophiaSharon Larnia: its great
stevenaia Michinaga: I also have another wild dress :)
stevenaia Michinaga: looking
stevenaia Michinaga: SSL poofs

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: w/b
SophiaSharon Larnia: thx! My power went completely off!
stevenaia Michinaga: weather?
stevenaia Michinaga: wow
SophiaSharon Larnia: it appears fine out, i thought it was a branch on a powerline, but power came right back on
SophiaSharon Larnia: nice dress :))
stevenaia Michinaga: lots of ventilation
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes I see that :P
stevenaia Michinaga: anything topical come to mind?

SophiaSharon Larnia: just something ive been thinking about for a week, makes no sense really
stevenaia Michinaga: :) listens
SophiaSharon Larnia: i've been thinking of those childrens drawings, where you flip the pages and and drawing appears to move (something small changing in each picture)
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
SophiaSharon Larnia: like each page is one moment
SophiaSharon Larnia: would you say in that case, change is an illusion?
stevenaia Michinaga: no, change is eternal, the image was a moment
stevenaia Michinaga: what I was really thinking was....
stevenaia Michinaga: looking at a "moment drawing" does not make a moment since you are not in that moment but the moments involved in looking at the one moment
stevenaia Michinaga: then I decided to answer your questin iin stead :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: thinking
stevenaia Michinaga: not sure moments exist outside you
SophiaSharon Larnia: I cant be in the drawing
SophiaSharon Larnia: change is eternal?
stevenaia Michinaga: only a moment does not change
stevenaia Michinaga: everything else changes
stevenaia Michinaga: (unless you convince me otherwise)
SophiaSharon Larnia: if the moment encapsulates everything, then what is everything else?
SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry to ask, is sounds confrontational when I do that
SophiaSharon Larnia: :(
stevenaia Michinaga: isn't everything including everything else
stevenaia Michinaga: not at all, this is new thinking for me
SophiaSharon Larnia: everything is an illusion, i have no way to prove or disprove that, not really
stevenaia Michinaga: the only present moments I have been having regularlly is driving my car... it tells me my gas comsumption at each moment, so I am in the "car moment" as I drive at 60 mph
SophiaSharon Larnia: interesting feature :)
stevenaia Michinaga: mindfulness driving

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: the illusion is the moment, it only exists once, perhaps "once" is the illusion, it only exists as an image of itself .. forever in a photograph,
SophiaSharon Larnia: i tend to zone when i drive, but become very alert visually, esp. peripherally, Driving is one of the most relaxing things for me (usually!!)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm
stevenaia Michinaga: moment = "once"
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles at distant observerm
SophiaSharon Larnia is thinking and is not just very quiet
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
stevenaia Michinaga: me too
stevenaia Michinaga: what is illusion to you
SophiaSharon Larnia: all that I really know, is what ive read, or heard people talk about illusion
stevenaia Michinaga: ..come sit with us Observerm :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: such a yearning grasp for there to be more
stevenaia Michinaga: is it not real or a deception?
SophiaSharon Larnia: or is it memorex :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry
stevenaia Michinaga: I just wnat to understand how a moment can be an illusion :)
stevenaia Michinaga: isn;t everyhting an illusion then?
SophiaSharon Larnia: if a small thing changes in each picture/moment, but is fixed in a picture, it appears to me that the change it self was an illusion
stevenaia Michinaga: like your little "flip book" of reality
SophiaSharon Larnia: of course, i havent thought of this yet from what you said ealier, that im looking outward in and not from within the moment
stevenaia Michinaga: *your
stevenaia Michinaga: but as soon as you "look" the moment is something else
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes :)
stevenaia Michinaga: it is a moment looked at, not the moment
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah
SophiaSharon Larnia: sounds familiar\\
stevenaia Michinaga: you play with the moment, that may be the illusion of change...
stevenaia Michinaga: you pick up a moment put it on paper, play it look at it, ponder change
stevenaia Michinaga: it;s all part of change
stevenaia Michinaga: but I see no illusion of change
stevenaia Michinaga: isn;t there as much joy in illusion?
stevenaia Michinaga: whether it exists or not
SophiaSharon Larnia: i think there is :) I havent said that here before, i dont think :)))
SophiaSharon Larnia: thanks for being clear :)

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: smiles, all new to me, but I do know joy, or if I don't, I do see it and it seems to matter greatly
stevenaia Michinaga: looks up joy in Wilipedia... sends me to Happiness :)
stevenaia Michinaga: *wikipedia
SophiaSharon Larnia: yay
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: new to me too
SophiaSharon Larnia: too new to bring up here actuially
stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happiness
stevenaia Michinaga: and on.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_happiness
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha "The smiley face is a well-known symbol of happiness"
stevenaia Michinaga: so much for sucking the life out of happiness
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)))
stevenaia Michinaga: not that (happy face), the "Philosophy_of_happiness"
SophiaSharon Larnia: (veryyy slow computer here tonight)
stevenaia Michinaga: probably similar to PhD in comedy
SophiaSharon Larnia: ha can you imagine :D
stevenaia Michinaga: there is much to be said for experience, perhaps by experiencing the illution, it will have meaning
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: whether change it is or isn't, an illusion is not as important a question as being there
SophiaSharon Larnia: as in, are you or are you not?
stevenaia Michinaga: no .. just watch , not ask the question
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh, it always comes back to that
SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
stevenaia Michinaga: letting go of the definition
stevenaia Michinaga: it makes your shoulders relax
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: there a physical effect to not asking
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
stevenaia Michinaga: I often think I should be attending to this or that questions, but what's the point, then relax and the answer becomes or does not become relivant all by itself
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes I understand that I think
stevenaia Michinaga: look...  loosing your keys, you know the saying, that will always be found in the last place you look
stevenaia Michinaga: so I stop looking knowing when I find them, that's where they they will be any way
SophiaSharon Larnia: :D
SophiaSharon Larnia: yep
SophiaSharon Larnia: find myself resisting the idea right now
SophiaSharon Larnia: which says a lot
stevenaia Michinaga: hehe, you will stop resisting when you are ready
SophiaSharon Larnia: thanks Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: you will stop resisting in the last place you resisted
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hahah
SophiaSharon Larnia: have to go and resist staying awake

--BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: for the day, good night
stevenaia Michinaga: :) night
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Steve, Observerm :))
stevenaia Michinaga: hope I didn;t take you to off topic SSL
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Observerm
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh noo , my thanks is very geniune! Im grateful
SophiaSharon Larnia: really, youre right
SophiaSharon Larnia: ~waves~
stevenaia Michinaga: waves