2011.05.27 07:00 - Wholeheartedly Without Attachment

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal filling in for Lucinda who is happily traveling. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal, joined by Bleu, SophiaSharon, Pema, Bertrum, Arch, Wester, Boxy, a new visitor and momentarily, Zon.

Bleu Oleander: bye Fef
Eliza Madrigal: Morning Arch :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Arch
Archmage Atlantis: Morning, and....smokes to all who has them *g*
Pema Pera: Bleu, when are you going to tell us abotu the Big Secret ?
Eliza Madrigal: What an interesting session, sort of al over the road and all in one place at the same time
Bleu Oleander: ah be patient!
Bleu Oleander: save the date though
Pema Pera trying to be patiently curious
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera normally just patently curious
Bleu Oleander: it is very exciting ... I will say that much!
Eliza Madrigal: thanks for the heads up

Pema Pera: if nothing else, you've already made it very exciting, whatever it is!
Bleu Oleander: haha
Eliza Madrigal: :))

Bleu Oleander: anticipation ...
Pema Pera: like standing in the middle of a busy square and looking up . . .
Pema Pera: just to see how many others will follow
Eliza Madrigal: that may be the log title 'already very exciting whatever it is'
Pema Pera: hahaha
Bleu Oleander: haha!

Pema Pera: or walking with a sign "the end is near!"
Pema Pera: as opposed to PaB: "the end is here!"
Bleu Oleander: no end
Yakuzza Lethecus: starting in the end :P
Bleu Oleander: :P
Yakuzza Lethecus: the end IS HERE :P
Pema Pera: :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey sophia
Pema Pera: hi Sharon!
Bleu Oleander: hi Sharon
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharon :) Morning
Pema Pera: evening here
Pema Pera: or night rather
Pema Pera: 11 pm
Bleu Oleander: 7 am here
Yakuzza Lethecus: 4 pm :)
Eliza Madrigal: 10:06am
SophiaSharon Larnia: grins
Eliza Madrigal: I seem to have 6 extra minutes
Pema Pera: hahaha
SophiaSharon Larnia: me too Eliza ;0
Bleu Oleander: bonus time
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Pema Pera: astronomers are not too careful with time
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh?
Bleu Oleander makes note to change clocks battery
Pema Pera: a million years here or there . . .
Pema Pera: on a billion
Eliza Madrigal: how convenient, heh
Pema Pera: or six minutes
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, a ballpark figure
Pema Pera: yes!
Eliza Madrigal: grace period :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: ha
Bleu Oleander: could def use some of that!

Pema Pera: when I went to my first international conference, I heard someone say "a ballpark figure" and I had NO IDEA what that was!
Yakuzza Lethecus: time is relative, timeless time if pema´s mind runs on a wave thorugh the galaxy :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Pema lol
Pema Pera: which ball ? which park ? which figure ?
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
Bleu Oleander: :)
Pema Pera: then I saw cheer leaders . . .
SophiaSharon Larnia: this wasn't recently?
Eliza Madrigal shakes head
Pema Pera: thirty plus years ago
Bleu Oleander: being a Yankee fan since birth ... have no prob with that metaphor :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes i thought so :)
Pema Pera: in Europe you don't hear about ballpark figures
SophiaSharon Larnia: (to Pema) and lol Bleu
SophiaSharon Larnia: are they more precise there?
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Pema Pera: :-)
Bleu Oleander: fuzzy math
SophiaSharon Larnia: the ballpark must not hold the same iconography (or something like that)
Pema Pera: soccer is perhaps more precise?
SophiaSharon Larnia: i dont know, i know some people very very precise about baseball
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
Eliza Madrigal thinks of george carlin's skit on the aggressiveness of some sports... baseball v football....
Bleu Oleander: Yankee fans :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
Eliza Madrigal: he says baseball is so peaceful... on a park
Eliza Madrigal: and football on a grid...
SophiaSharon Larnia: not in the stands?
Eliza Madrigal: very clever actually... the views behind games
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Bleu Oleander: yes, words we choose
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods

Pema Pera remembering again the real puzzle: almost any sport is played with a ball, and in a kind of park, so I was honestly totally puzzled -- the fuzzyness of the expression fitted the final meaning!
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)

Yakuzza Lethecus: wb arch
SophiaSharon Larnia: wb Arch
Eliza Madrigal: I imagine that it takes a bit of getting used to, thinking in such huge terms
Pema Pera: your PaB remarks triggered quite some echose, Arch!
Eliza Madrigal: wb Arch :)
Pema Pera: *echoes
Eliza Madrigal: ....echoes echoes echoes...
Pema Pera: *echos?
Archmage Atlantis: "echose" ?
Eliza Madrigal: not sure now :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: a way you have to practically deal with it is use symbols to represent a huge number, ive always felt that diminished the number for some reason
Bleu Oleander: echo many
Pema Pera: echose = electronic voting system?

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: (hi boxy [bell])
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Bleu Oleander: hi boxy :)
Pema Pera: that's what's so nice about "a gadzillion" -- it has NO symbol that I know of! :-)
Alfred Kelberry: wuff!
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey boxy
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Boxy :)
Archmage Atlantis: Of course it has a symbol, Pema
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha Pema, I like gabillion
Pema Pera sees a number game coming up . . .
Archmage Atlantis: Z0}>

Pema Pera: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indefin...itious_numbers

Pema Pera: looks good, Arch!
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh that is funny
Bleu Oleander: oodles ... like that one :)
Pema Pera: I like kabillion
Archmage Atlantis: Nothing that can be imagined is fictitious for long
Pema Pera: nice ring to it
Pema Pera: and squintillion
SophiaSharon Larnia: ive never heard of that one
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Pema Pera: I just made it up
SophiaSharon Larnia: sounds like it should be infinitely small
Pema Pera: from squillion in wikipedia
SophiaSharon Larnia: :D oh, then thats way lol
Pema Pera: with a dash of "tril
SophiaSharon Larnia: why*
Pema Pera: as in you have to squint to count?
Archmage Atlantis: I think squintillion has to do with cartoon sponges from the south pacific
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe yes
Yakuzza Lethecus: bleucrometer
Eliza Madrigal: yes I thought that too Sharon...hah

Pema Pera: well, counting makes me sleepy . . . . one sheep, two sheep, squintillion sheeps . . . .
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bertrum
SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
Pema Pera: time to get some sleep!
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Pema! nice to see you, stay safe.
Pema Pera: perchance to dream about umptillion sheep . . .
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pema :) Pleasant sleeps
Bleu Oleander: bye Pema :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :D
Archmage Atlantis: To sleep, perchance to dream, Pema
Yakuzza Lethecus: good night pema
Pema Pera: bye everybody!
Bleu Oleander: gives counting sheep new meaning
Eliza Madrigal: sheep counting pema
Pema Pera: the art of sheep counting . . . where art and science meet
Pema Pera: bfn
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Archmage Atlantis: counting alpacas works sometimes
SophiaSharon Larnia: arch ;p
Bleu Oleander: counting dogs works for me :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: shake things up once in a while
Eliza Madrigal: :)) Bleu

Eliza Madrigal: somehow we're back to indra's net :)

Archmage Atlantis: alpacas playing poker
Eliza Madrigal: yes, definitely alpacas
Bleu Oleander: as in too many ON the bed :)
Archmage Atlantis: on velvet
Eliza Madrigal: I wonder if Wester knows she signed off
SophiaSharon Larnia: brb :)
Eliza Madrigal: (am I the only one who still sees her here)
Bleu Oleander: hi Bertrum
Bleu Oleander: I don't see her
Bertrum Resident: hi everyone
Eliza Madrigal: hmmmm
Bleu Oleander: some heavy lag you have there
Yakuzza Lethecus: neither do i
Archmage Atlantis: I do not see Wester....but she has special powers....so I expect that
Eliza Madrigal: wow, sl is getting relativer and relativer
SophiaSharon Larnia: back
Bleu Oleander: like rl
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Bertrum
Bertrum Resident: ho Sophia
Archmage Atlantis: Hmm, Eliza.....that is rl also, as others have observed
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: i havent seen Wester since i arrived, i guess im not sitting on the same cushion :)
Bleu Oleander: must get going .... nice to be with everyone this morning :)
Eliza Madrigal: how odd.... and I didn't see Fef the entire time he was here
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Bleu :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye bleu
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bleu :) Thanks and good to see you
Bleu Oleander: bye all
SophiaSharon Larnia: have fun
Archmage Atlantis: Danke

Eliza Madrigal: I wonder if anyone has topics to bring up? Or are we all still dazzled by numbers?

Yakuzza Lethecus: i got to go
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye fore now
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Yakuzza, take care :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Yaku :)
Bertrum Resident: bye Yaku
SophiaSharon Larnia: nothing topical from me :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eliza Madrigal: Well we have a pause approaching, we can refresh and see what arises after :)

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: Sharon, are you on vacation this week?
SophiaSharon Larnia: no :)
Eliza Madrigal: Has been nice to see you in the mornings
SophiaSharon Larnia: thx, nice to see you and everyone, and to be here in the morning
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: ah, I wanted to let everyone know that perfect paradise has a presentation on cuba tomorrow morning... 6am. Not sure if topics around sustainability are of interest....
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, thx Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: and also not sure what it will be like, but there are so many conflicting reports about Cuba
SophiaSharon Larnia: what sim is perfect paradise, ive heard it alot over the last several months
Eliza Madrigal: so always interesting to me
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, let me give you a lm... it is a really lovely sim actually
SophiaSharon Larnia: i have one or two i beleive
Eliza Madrigal: Oh :) Well there is a bit of overlap between our two communities lately
Alfred Kelberry: who prepared the presentation?
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh isee
Eliza Madrigal: they have a sort of similar theme in some ways... that everyone was shipwrecked
Eliza Madrigal: and has to 'start from scratch'
Eliza Madrigal: Miralee went to Cuba, so it will be her presentation
Eliza Madrigal: (sorry for crossed lines)
Alfred Kelberry: nice
Alfred Kelberry: when is the opening?

SophiaSharon Larnia: feels sort of shipwrecked for reals
SophiaSharon Larnia: and is oddly ok with that lol
Eliza Madrigal: tomorrow 6am Alf
Eliza Madrigal: Are you Sharon?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yep
Alfred Kelberry: thank you
Alfred Kelberry: i'll try to be there
Eliza Madrigal: starting from scratch... again and again

SophiaSharon Larnia: do you ever really start from scatch?
Eliza Madrigal: yes I wonder
SophiaSharon Larnia: even if you move and get a new job, you have your education
Eliza Madrigal: many people find themselves doing nothing they intended to do
SophiaSharon Larnia: carry your experience with you
Eliza Madrigal: though what they've done before does tend to show up in the work anyway
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Eliza Madrigal nods

Bertrum Resident: Have you found that to be true?
Bertrum Resident: Not doing what one intends to do?
Eliza Madrigal: I think so, in many ways
Bertrum Resident: How so?
Eliza Madrigal: starting from scratch might be more about letting go of former ideas or dreams to allow something surprising?
SophiaSharon Larnia: :) i like that so much better than the idea that everything gets scrapped
Eliza Madrigal: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: although scraps can make pretty quilts
Eliza Madrigal: yes they do :)
Bertrum Resident: What do you mean by something surprising? Would you talk about that?
Eliza Madrigal: and mosaics made of random fragments which never seemed to have a purpose
SophiaSharon Larnia thinks of pieces of glass to make a mosiac :)

Eliza Madrigal: once pema said something pretty interesting... may have been on retreat because I couldn't find the log....
Eliza Madrigal: (just once, hah, you know what I mean)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :))

Eliza Madrigal: anyway.... what he said was that everything in our life in a sense, can be seen as preparation....

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: anything we do or don't do, every dish cleaned, every phone call, etc. When we 'stop' to directly experience, there is nothing 'wasted' in a sense...
Eliza Madrigal: I'm not articulating well
Eliza Madrigal: but the feeling was of reading a book backwards and seeing how every string was relevant
Eliza Madrigal: in an instant                               

                    What I meant to say here, was that 'that instant' is always available, wherever we are...

SophiaSharon Larnia: you know, i had the feeling that I understood immediately what Pema (and you by saying it) meant, but I cant articulate it
SophiaSharon Larnia: or what you are preparing for
Eliza Madrigal: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: exactly
Eliza Madrigal: it is 'you' in a sense.... like all that time awakened
Eliza Madrigal: you're in your life

Bertrum Resident: You put in the context today as letting go of ideas and dreams. How does that connect with the preparation?
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh
Eliza Madrigal: oh?

SophiaSharon Larnia: dropping expectations allows you to see whats there, but i cant articulate it, im taking that sentence with me today, thank you :D
SophiaSharon Larnia: brb
Eliza Madrigal: :)) this has helped me too, thanks

Eliza Madrigal: Bertrum was there something you were thinking of specifically?
Bertrum Resident: I was just intrigued by your statement: starting from scratch was letting go of ideas and dreams with the possible outcome of something surprising. You also said before that about one finding themself "doing nothing they intended to do." I find those ideas intriguing.
Eliza Madrigal: mmm
Eliza Madrigal: on a micro level I suppose that's what pausing allows us
Eliza Madrigal: each time we 'give up' what we have
Eliza Madrigal: forget even, in a way
Eliza Madrigal: It is almost like that cliche' by now of 'if you love someone let (them) go?"
Eliza Madrigal: there seems to be a trust there
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes

SophiaSharon Larnia: may i interupt and ask what one would be preparing for... we talk and hear about enlightenment and waking up - but waking up is just the very first part of the day. You still have to get out of bed and get moving :) Does that have anything to do with what Pema said/meant?

Eliza Madrigal: I felt that it did very much so....
Eliza Madrigal: I felt that it meant that everything, every step, was meaningful
SophiaSharon Larnia: in that sense, waking up is ho hum :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: and a miracle at the same time
Eliza Madrigal: yes completely ordinary :)
Eliza Madrigal: more ordinary than ordinary
Bertrum Resident: Eliza, you mention trust. Can you explain what you mean in this context?

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: to be honest I was considering a very particular point in meditation practice Bertrum, but sort of extrapoloating it to the whole picture...
Eliza Madrigal: that when I first stop, I notice all the goings, and a panic about 'what if I don't___ or how can I best do ___" ...
Eliza Madrigal: and I have to trust that nothing is more important than that spot / moment I'm in, sort of...
Eliza Madrigal: nothing more worthwhile
Eliza Madrigal: that I can really afford to let it all go
Eliza Madrigal: fall back, in a way
SophiaSharon Larnia: thank you Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: would love to articulate better, but thanks
Eliza Madrigal: it is like life then rushes in

Bertrum Resident: And does that mean to give up what you love as well (to let it go?)? At least for that moment?
Eliza Madrigal: and I see I never had to keep all the world balanced
Eliza Madrigal: yes definitely
Eliza Madrigal: even have to drop PaB when there, hehe :))
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Eliza Madrigal: but not like anyone can hold it... it is silly really, to see how absurd it is to think one is holding things together

Bertrum Resident: So does this focus eliminating attachments?
Eliza Madrigal: seems to loosen them.. make room
Eliza Madrigal: allow laughter... in the earlier session we talked about not taking things (oneself) so seriously... and yet there is a serious devotion
Eliza Madrigal: we still do our best, whole heartedly

SophiaSharon Larnia: have to go, thanks Eliza and Bertrum, bye for now (and Boxy :) )
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Arch
Bertrum Resident: By Sophia
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Sharon :)) Thanks for coming today
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)) have fun
Eliza Madrigal: strange to be sitting here with 'away' boxy, a wester no one else sees, and I think Arch may be away too, hehe
Eliza Madrigal: :))

Bertrum Resident: So there is that duality then in eliminating attachements but on the other hand doing out best whole heartedly to them?

Eliza Madrigal: mmm
Eliza Madrigal: yes! that's interesting....
Bertrum Resident: sorry for the typos
Eliza Madrigal: not at all (re the typos)
Eliza Madrigal: yes on the one hand we are seeing that everything is connected in a sense... that what we do each moment matters
Eliza Madrigal: and on the other hand, we are accepting that nothing is connected in any way, sort of...

Eliza Madrigal: hmm, say more if you would?

--BELL--
                   I didn't read these lines from Bertrum until posting the log, due to lag I guess...

Bertrum Resident: That duality creates a paradox--at least for me. Everything matters and is consequential and nothing matters is of no consequence. We build our lives around what matters (on on levels) and yet nothing matters. We are connected to everyone and to no one,

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Rayah!
Eliza Madrigal: Great to see you
Eliza Madrigal: (I'm lagging a bit this morning but Bert and I have been discusing releasing attachments)
Rayah Slade: hello sorry..
Rayah Slade: ahh
Rayah Slade: please carry on .. I'll catch up
Eliza Madrigal: :))not at all, great jacket
Rayah Slade: thanks

Eliza Madrigal: every thing has its own context, is sort of what I feel, that it brings with it...
Eliza Madrigal: then there is the underlying 'no context' which seems 'home' in a way. Here is the restful spot. :) From the view of that home window, nothing is attached in any weighty way
Eliza Madrigal: and that's why we can enjoy it all
Bertrum Resident: Do we enjoy it all?
Eliza Madrigal: maybe not
Eliza Madrigal: but maybe we can, if we don't think we know what that means
Eliza Madrigal: ie 'this is what joy looks like'
Eliza Madrigal: not sure at all of course... so hard to articulate these things
Eliza Madrigal: like, why is it a good idea to 'drop everything' several times a day?

Eliza Madrigal: Btw, Rayah, I think you know but we record everything here :) I need to tell you that
Eliza Madrigal: everything goes on the wiki, including the time book we've been discussing most fridays for wow, quite a while now
Eliza Madrigal: I think today was supposed to be a prim workshop
Eliza Madrigal: but not sure... sun and alfred seem occupied with other things :)
Bertrum Resident: Yes, and the session is overtime. Thank you for the conversation!
Eliza Madrigal: thanks to you Bert
Eliza Madrigal: your questions are very helpful
Eliza Madrigal: I'll have to go momentarily also... filled in for Luci today but have been here for quite a while now
Bertrum Resident: Bye, everyone.

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bertrum
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zon, we're just wrapping up a few hours ...
Zon Kwan: hi all
Eliza Madrigal: nice to see you but have to go :)
Eliza Madrigal: And I don't think Arch is actually here
Eliza Madrigal: @@
Zon Kwan: bye
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now :)