2012.10.15 19:00 - Precious Time

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.

Pema Pera: hi there, Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema :) Caught me trying to fix my dress
Pema Pera: are you keeping your hands warm?
Eliza Madrigal: :) Nice to see you
Pema Pera: yes, same here!
Pema Pera: a very pretty muffler!
Eliza Madrigal: :) ty
Pema Pera: hi Bleu!
Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza, Pema :)
Pema Pera: and hi Xs!
Xs Andree waits for the rezz
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu, Xx :)
Xs Andree: Hello, Pema
Bleu Oleander: hi Xs

Eliza Madrigal: Lovely to see you all tonight
Bleu Oleander: likewise :)
Xs Andree: Hello, Bleu, Namaste all.
Eliza Madrigal: Xs I enjoyed reading your comments on time, when Szavanna posted this morning's log
Eliza Madrigal: it is a favorite topic here :)
Pema Pera: hi Steve!
Xs Andree: oh, thank you. I didn't realize you were still logging, I thought I came at the end
Bleu Oleander: hiya steve
Pema Pera loves musing about time
Xs Andree grins
Bleu Oleander: :)
Xs Andree: Me too
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stevenaia :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hi all

Xs Andree: but if anyone said that stuff to me six months ago I would have shaken my head in sadness
Eliza Madrigal: really? how so?
stevenaia Michinaga: gtsy so soon Pema
Pema Pera: same here, Steve!
Xs Andree: I wouldn't have believed it was possible, not like that. hmm..maybe not...but..I would have been very dubious about it
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Xs please to meet you
Xs Andree: Thank you, Stevenaia, it has been wonderful knowing you as well
Eliza Madrigal: others have probably not read the session yet ... but I was really struck by your idea of having past the rewritten
Xs Andree: it was
stevenaia Michinaga: which session?
Xs Andree: my entire past changed on me
Xs Andree: like, in an instant
Pema Pera would love to hear more!
Xs Andree smiles
Eliza Madrigal: this morning's session Stevenaia.. tited 'illuminated dualities'
Bleu Oleander makes note to read later :)
Xs Andree: It is...rather private, so, I"m not certain I have shared it with you, but who knows.

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Kiremimi :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Kiremimi :)
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: hi
Pema Pera: hi Kiremimi!
Eliza Madrigal: lovely to see you
Xs Andree: I wouldn't be surprised, though. If I did share with anyone, it is most likely I'd have done it here.
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Pema Pera: do you now look at time in a different way, Xs?

--BELL--

Xs Andree: We'll be talking about something else this session.
Pema Pera: :-)
Xs Andree: But thank you for your interest
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: nods

Pema Pera: of all the things in life time is the most mysterious, more than space . . . .
Pema Pera: and we all pretend there is no problem, no riddle

Pema Pera: we all live as if we know what time is . . . but none of us do, it seems

stevenaia Michinaga: seems we have looking for the gears so see how it works for a very long time, finding nothing
Pema Pera: each moment . . . a new world . . . and we try to tame each one :-)
Xs Andree: The indivisible moment
Pema Pera: yes
Eliza Madrigal: some moments feel to have more time in them than other moments
Xs Andree: Zeno talks about it in this arrow paradox.
Eliza Madrigal: never arriving?

Pema Pera: yes, indeed! we use words like "flow" but what is flowing, from where, for whom? Can anyone stand on the banks of time and watch it flowing?
Xs Andree nods
Xs Andree: we can't even stand on the banks, caught up in it's flow
Bleu Oleander: can "feel" it flowing
Xs Andree: well...kind of
Xs Andree nods
Pema Pera: and there may not be any banks . . . which makes the "flow" iffy indeed :-)
Pema Pera: what if there were only openness, dynamic openness?

Pema Pera: what if time were round like a ball, rather than straight like a line?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Xs Andree: or solid, like a person or a fountain
Bleu Oleander: have to go with what it feels like to me
Pema Pera: sure!
Pema Pera: but the feeling of "me" is founded on time
Bleu Oleander: yes
Pema Pera: if time would be totally different, so would be the "me" trying to swim in it :-)
Eliza Madrigal: if open, then taming would be exhausting

Bleu Oleander: what it feels like to be me

Bleu Oleander: hi Esteban
stevenaia Michinaga: Hi Esteban
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Esteban :) We're talking of time... I'll give you a note
Pema Pera: hi Esteban
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: hi esteban

Xs Andree: When I was very young, my life was hard and lonely, I couldn't trust most people at all
Xs Andree: And I used to fantasize about going back in time, when I was an adult, to keep myself company, and think of all the things I'd tell myself.

Bleu Oleander: hi Eos :)
Pema Pera: hi Eos!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos :)
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: hi eos
Eos Amaterasu: hi beings!

Xs Andree: When I was an adult, I remembered those times, and those fantasies, once...thinking about how silly they were...
Pema Pera: what a great idea, Xs
Xs Andree: and when I thought of what I'd really say to myself...
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: nods

Pema Pera: when I'm trying to write something to share with others, whether for my work, or here for PaB, it often helps me to focus by imagining I'm writing it for a younger me :-)

Xs Andree: I remembered the present into the past, and my advice, and what I would have done, was the same as I remembered it. both times folded together into the present, and I was there, with myself, and remembered the same peace it gave me as a child, and it was the same peace it gave me as an adult.

Eliza Madrigal: that is very beautiful Xs... inspiring.. relate very much
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: interesting
Xs Andree: That was my first experience with time apart from the Past to present and on to future way of thinking.
Bleu Oleander: hi Travis
Travis Bagley: Hi!!! :)
Travis Bagley: oops
Pema Pera: wonderful, Xs!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Travis, welcome
stevenaia Michinaga: hi, welcome back
Pema Pera: hi Travis
Travis Bagley: hi
Travis Bagley: :)
Xs Andree smiles
Xs Andree: Thank you for understanding. Most people i relate that to look at me fearfully, afraid for my sanity
Xs Andree: eee hee hee hee!
Pema Pera: (^_^)
Eliza Madrigal laughs... not here... we often test out suspending judgment of what we think we know or understand
stevenaia Michinaga: Never thought of addressing my former self like that

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: intriguing idea
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Rhi
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Rhiannon, it feels like ages since I've seen you.

Pema Pera: it's interesting to do a subject/object reversal in time: letting a past me anticipate the present me; or letting a future me remember me

Eliza Madrigal: and Hi Gilles too :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Gilles
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: Xs is very articulate, make me think
Pema Pera: hi Rhia and hi Giles!
Eliza Madrigal agrees
Rhiannon Dragoone: Eliza, yes--where've you been?
Xs Andree: Thank you.
Gilles Kuhn: hello all
Eliza Madrigal grins... hanging around
Bleu Oleander: hi Rhia, Giles :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Bleu
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Pema
Pema Pera: I'll have to get going

Esteban Voljeti: please let me recall 2 things... among the interesting thoughts you are sharing... one is about ego and SL superpowers, it brings a contradictory refresh on past and present... the other is about ego... is it really important to be rememebered?
Pema Pera: still a lot to do to prepare for tomorrow's work . . . .
Bleu Oleander: ntsy Pema
Eliza Madrigal: Okay Pema, thanks for dropping in tonight
Pema Pera: great talking to you all, and nice to meet you, Xs!
stevenaia Michinaga: night Pema

Eliza Madrigal likes that "SL superpowers" - would you say a bit more Esteban?
Xs Andree: What do you mean by Ego? Like Buhddist Ego, or Western psychology?

Rhiannon Dragoone: Estaban, well, I'm not sure what the point of this conversation is, but I would say that the important thing is taht you remembver yoruself
stevenaia Michinaga: being remembered not your responsibility, even it is is there is nothing you can do about it, it is the choice of others
Esteban Voljeti: lol
Esteban Voljeti: i dont even remember my breakfast,
stevenaia Michinaga: having lost much this year
Gilles Kuhn: depend stevenaia you can burn a greek temple for example....
Eliza Madrigal: much reflection this year Stevenaia...
stevenaia Michinaga: true, if I really really wanted to be remembered
Eos Amaterasu: you can't attend your own eulogy
Eliza Madrigal: well there is a kind of contemplative technique that is 'called' self-remembering also

Xs Andree: I can't remember which culture it was, but they had different states of being dead. The first was the recently passed, when the most people remembered you,and then there were different stages of death beyond that, and true death occurred when there was no one living who remembered you
Xs Andree: I want to say it is china
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: east asia...
Eos Amaterasu: some truth to that - we live on in other people
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: 49 days, you stay in between
Xs Andree nods to Kiremimi
Xs Andree: Yes, that sounds familiar
Rhiannon Dragoone: China's a big place, so maybe, but traditional Chinese think your ancestors are in an afterlife and are guiding (if not controlling) you. Sort of like Stranger in a STrange Land
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: 49 days is in Japan...

Bleu Oleander: what is the significance of 49 days?
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: we have one year, three year, 7 year rememberacne of the dead
Esteban Voljeti: 31 for budists
Xs Andree: the martian ancients, yeah, I'd forgotten about them
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: well, in 49 days, whatever the reason, the dead is not completely dead,
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: but in between, the middle world.
Xs Andree: i set my alarm for 11:11 am and pm, and remember those who are no longer with me twice a day, including those who are no longer alive
Eliza Madrigal: interesting

Eos Amaterasu: When you're with someone for a long time you start living in the intersections of each other
Eos Amaterasu: when you separate those intersections keep going
Xs Andree: might be a sevenfold reason...49 is seven weeks
Eos Amaterasu: like phantom limbs
Eliza Madrigal: yes Eos *
Xs Andree: like...wanting to turn to them and say something, and then realizing they aren't there
Eos Amaterasu: yes
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: I found it the system is good for the living, it can term with the reality that the loved one is passing away..

--BELL--

Rhiannon Dragoone: Can anyone tell me if I'm supposed to be levitating?
Eliza Madrigal: No Rhi, the cusions just cycle through poses
Eliza Madrigal: unlike the basic ones

stevenaia Michinaga: interesting how death and time relate
Eliza Madrigal: the transition rituals do seem so important... many cite having seen loved ones in an interim... or knowing they died before they were told
Eliza Madrigal nods
stevenaia Michinaga: as if there is no ending

Xs Andree: A very close friend of mine turned to me once, and randomly said "they found the body"
Xs Andree: I was getting used to such things by then, so I didn't ask her until later what she meant, and she didn't remember saying it
Xs Andree: Two weeks later ( or so), the father of my oldest son had his brother go missing.
Eliza Madrigal: oh :(
Xs Andree: They didn't find the body until the day after they started searching, but I knew that they would, and It helped me assure him
Xs Andree: erm, day afer they stopped searching.

Gilles Kuhn: interesting coincidence
Xs Andree nods
Xs Andree: There are a lot of interesting coincidences like that with my friend.
Gilles Kuhn: but totally unconclusive
Xs Andree: inconclusive?
Gilles Kuhn: yes
Xs Andree nods
Xs Andree: Yet noteworthy
Rhiannon Dragoone: Sounds like your friend had a pre-cognitive moment in a trance, Xs
Eliza Madrigal: unprovable yet noteworthy ... spectrum of interesting possibilities
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: nods
Eos Amaterasu: helps raise a question but not necessarily answer it
Eliza Madrigal nods

Xs Andree: Hardly unprovable. It happened, there is nothing to prove. The only question is its meaning. I only brought it up in reference to the comment made earlier about people knowing of the passing of others before they were told.

Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, I need to log. Interesting conversation. Glad I caught some of it.
Eliza Madrigal: Night Rhi
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: night
Xs Andree: goodnight, Rhiannon
stevenaia Michinaga: night Rhi
Bleu Oleander: bye Rhia
Rhiannon Dragoone: nite, kiremimi!
Gilles Kuhn: i am out myself late in my tz
Gilles Kuhn: bye all
Eliza Madrigal: Night Gilles
Rhiannon Dragoone: goodnight, Xs
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: night gilles
Rhiannon Dragoone: night, steve
Rhiannon Dragoone: bye, Bleu
Rhiannon Dragoone: TC, Giles

Eliza Madrigal: absence of an answer - point of note that this week's topic is "absence" and I was noticing that one hardly has to facilitate it... the topic seems to show up anyway
Rhiannon Dragoone waves and poofs

stevenaia Michinaga: read sunday night's Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: will do :)
stevenaia Michinaga: intuition is a very powerful tool when you find it
Eliza Madrigal: very moving personal accounts Xs, thanks for sharing them
stevenaia Michinaga: it sees things not usually seen
Eliza Madrigal nods
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: indeed
Xs Andree: Thank you for listening. These aren't things I can share in common life with people.
stevenaia Michinaga: like time, difficult to explain, yet undenyable

Eliza Madrigal: uncanny moments suggest interesting things about time
Eliza Madrigal: even if that is hard to articulate
Eos Amaterasu: hard to ken
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: like seeing beyond the present

Xs Andree: Has anyone ever...experienced the sense that they were waiting to meet someone? Have you caught yourself looking around for them? DId you go to a place feeling that they might be there...but not knowing who they were?
Esteban Voljeti: what name?
Eliza Madrigal: interesting question ::thinks:::::
Xs Andree: yeah...what is their name?
Eliza Madrigal: :)

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: I've had something like that sense, yes, or more often meeting someone and there seeming instant familiarity - as though I'd known them 'the whole time' - always part of everything
Xs Andree nods
Xs Andree: Me too
stevenaia Michinaga: night all
Eliza Madrigal: Night stevenaia :)
Xs Andree: Goodnight, Stevenaia
Bleu Oleander waves to steve
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: good night
Eliza Madrigal: we know so little of what stevenaia called intuition, huh?

Eos Amaterasu: might be we make unwarranted static assumptions about our boundaries, intentions, etc
Eliza Madrigal: what do you mean Eos?
Eos Amaterasu: like that feeling that you're about to meet someone
Eos Amaterasu: vs the feeling that I'm not abouty to meet someone, and that that is the "normal"
Eliza Madrigal: ah :)
Xs Andree: when it is normal to meet new people in any event
Eos Amaterasu: :-}

Kiremimi Tigerpaw: it was not an intuition that Xs talked about it, but i had a feeling after my aunt funeral, everyone on the street who were old all look familiar and precious as they are, and their time of living precious.

Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: enhanced aware
Eliza Madrigal: that's lovely
Xs Andree: I like that.
Eliza Madrigal: as though the veils are thinner... aware of fragility
Xs Andree: I miss my little sister.
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: yes, there is a very interesting film in japan called Departure, that talked about the funeral
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: it got ocar, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Departures_%28film%29

Bleu Oleander: night all
Bleu Oleander: take care
Eos Amaterasu: night bleu
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: bye
Xs Andree: Goodnight, Bleu.
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: i also have to go,
Eos Amaterasu: must leave myself, thanks all for poignant conversation
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: night
Eliza Madrigal: Night Bleu and Kiremimi, thank you
Eliza Madrigal: Night Eos

Eliza Madrigal: your little sister, Xs?
Travis Bagley: bye everyone
Xs Andree: She passed away when she was six months old, a long time ago
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Travis :)
Eliza Madrigal: oh, how difficult...
Eliza Madrigal: sorry to hear that
Xs Andree: I think that is the biggest absence I've experienced, and the longest
Eliza Madrigal: imagine so... sense of someone that should have shared your life, in a sense
Esteban Voljeti: how long she left Xs?
Esteban Voljeti: ago*
Xs Andree: ummm
Xs Andree: thirty three years, I think.
Xs Andree: I was seven when she passed. No...wait, I was older...so..ummm
Esteban Voljeti: have you contacted her some how?
Xs Andree: thirty one years
Xs Andree: I've never thought to, to be honest.
Xs Andree: In a way, I have
Eliza Madrigal nods
Esteban Voljeti: perhaps its too late now for that... but you never know
Eliza Madrigal: with those loses I think there is never closure... heart always breaking though if able to stay with that... perhaps open to open...

--BELL--

Xs Andree: She had a stuffed toy lamb with a wind up key, and after she passed away, I used to sneak into my parents room and sit with it, and wind up the key and listen, and watch it turn for hours
Esteban Voljeti: anyway... energy forms remains there... she is ok now, dont worry
Esteban Voljeti: i understand what you mean
Xs Andree: Thank you Esteban
Esteban Voljeti: i feel you
Eliza Madrigal: would love to continue - has been a moving session and I'm so glad you (both) came back ... afraid my eyes are closing...

Eliza Madrigal: I like your 11:11 idea Xs... I used to pay attention t that time and somehow it slipped
Esteban Voljeti: Elize, thanks so much for invinting... and make such a great conduction
Xs Andree: Thank you for hosting the meeting, Eliza
Xs Andree: I didn't realize the significance of it until a few months after I started doing it.
Xs Andree: and I started to see 11:11 everywhere
Xs Andree: so I looked it up, and I was surprised
Eliza Madrigal: that is what happened to me too... I couldn't help but notice it for a long time...

Xs Andree: My friend also sends me a text every 11:11 that says "I love you" without fail, every day.
Eliza Madrigal: aw
Xs Andree smiles
Eliza Madrigal: at 11/11/11, my son and I were at a wishing tree at 11:11.. making wishes...
Eliza Madrigal: :)))
Xs Andree: Yeah, it has been very uplifting for me, I always send her one back as well.
Xs Andree: wow.
Eliza Madrigal: lovely to have friends
Xs Andree: 12/21/2012 at 11:11 pm is the end of the mayan Long count, and the winter solstice
Eliza Madrigal: such interesting times we are in
Eliza Madrigal: <3 have a beautiful night, thank you so much and I hope to see you both again soon
Eliza Madrigal: Namaste'
Xs Andree: You too, Namaste, Eliza
Esteban Voljeti: Namaste

Xs Andree: I might stay and just be until the end of the session.
Xs Andree: I feel no need to depart. You don't have to stay on my account, Esteban, but I wouldn't mind your company either.
Xs Andree: Namaste ziggy
Xs Andree: Goodnight all, Namaste