2012.08.05 19:00 - library of possibilities like unopened books...

Eliza posted this session from the auto-listener database...

[19:12] Paradise Tennant: hiya cal .. how are you :)
[19:13] Calvino Rabeni: Hi Paradise .. I'm well.. and you?
[19:13] Calvino Rabeni: Tech is pretty slow
[19:14] Paradise Tennant: all is well here .. we have a 3 day weekend!
[19:16] Calvino Rabeni: Monday holiday?
[19:16] Paradise Tennant: yes :)
[19:19] Paradise Tennant: went on a book buying spree :))
[19:19] Paradise Tennant: mostly on how the brain works :) like good science writing :)
[19:20] Calvino Rabeni: What's the holiday called ... brain ... ?
[19:21] Paradise Tennant: August Civic Public Holiday .. dull no :)
[19:21] Calvino Rabeni: hehe
[19:22] Calvino Rabeni: hmm, no occasion
[19:22] Paradise Tennant: smiles other than summer ! we have been having a glorious sunny summer really hot !
[19:22] Paradise Tennant: like walking into a steam bath

[19:22] Calvino Rabeni: the occasion of the holiday is that there is a holiday on that day :)

[19:22] Paradise Tennant: with rare torrential downpours
[19:22] Calvino Rabeni: humid
[19:22] Calvino Rabeni: ohh
[19:23] Paradise Tennant: yes :))) we get a long weekend every month of summer :)
[19:23] Paradise Tennant: so grey and cold for parts of the year here . it makes very good sense
[19:25] Calvino Rabeni: That sounds civilised!
[19:26] Paradise Tennant: smiles yes it is very welcome .. I get a day just to live :)
[19:27] Calvino Rabeni: Radical thought :)
[19:28] Paradise Tennant: yes
[19:28] Paradise Tennant: funny how we postpone the just living :)
[19:28] Paradise Tennant: fill our lives with things that are not really life
[19:29] Calvino Rabeni: And then ... given the opportunity ... how, exactly to do it ?? We assumed to know ..?

[19:31] Paradise Tennant: hmm easy the small rituals :)) the slow pace .. taking time to connect .. relishing the moment even if it is just catching up on laundry :))

[19:31] Paradise Tennant: hiya stev :)))
[19:31] Paradise Tennant: we are talking of " just living "
[19:31] Calvino Rabeni: Stevenaia :)
[19:32] stevenaia Michinaga: just?
[19:32] stevenaia Michinaga: waves
[19:32] Calvino Rabeni: It might include, reading about the brain to look for some insight into the "outside" of the "inside"...
[19:33] Calvino Rabeni: Or ... napping ... taking brain "offline"

[19:34] Paradise Tennant: yes bought a book today called mindsight ..by daniel siegel.. which was recommended by norman doidge .. mapping the sea within :))

[19:34] Calvino Rabeni: It is interesting to me that (quoting wikipedia)
[19:34] Calvino Rabeni: During a typical lifespan, a person spends a total of about six years dreaming[34] (which is about two hours each night).[35] Most dreams only last 5 to 20 minutes.[34] It is unknown where in the brain dreams originate, if there is a single origin for dreams or if multiple portions of the brain are involved, or what the purpose of dreaming is for the body or mind.

[19:34] stevenaia Michinaga: between the time I landed and the end of the 90 seconds, I had fallen asleep
[19:34] Paradise Tennant: smiles at stev maybe we are your dream :))
[19:35] Paradise Tennant: think dreams integrate our various realities ..that is my bet :))

[19:35] stevenaia Michinaga: when I met Fox (and family) in Montreal , where she is studying dreams and nightmares, she is amused that they really haven;t a clue
[19:36] stevenaia Michinaga: awwma she has a good cerreer ahead of her :)

[19:36] Paradise Tennant: if we speak of dreams maybe luci or fox will appear :))

[19:37] stevenaia Michinaga: :), I'm amazed how much of reality we remember, meaningless details, and how few dreams stay with us
[19:37] Calvino Rabeni: Fox has good timing eh, for an interesting science career
[19:38] stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps I;m changing the subject

[19:38] Paradise Tennant: Activation- Synthesis Model of Dreaming: The activation-synthesis model of dreaming was first proposed by J. Allan Hobson and Robert McClarley in 1977. According to this theory, circuits in the brain become activated during REM sleep, which causes areas of the limbic system involved in emotions, sensations and memories, including the amygdala and hippocampus, to become active.
The brain synthesizes and interprets this internal activity and attempts to find meaning in these signals, which results in dreaming. This model suggests that dreams are a subjective interpretation of signals generated by the brain during sleep.3 While this theory suggests that dreams are the result of internally generated signals, Hobson does not believe that dreams are meaningless. Instead, he suggests that dreaming is "…our most creative conscious state, one in which the chaotic, spontaneous recombination of cognitive elements produces novel configurations of information: new ideas. While many or even most of these ideas may b
[19:38] Paradise Tennant: e nonsensical, if even a few of its fanciful products are truly useful, our dream time will not have been wasted."4
[19:38] Paradise Tennant: http://psychology.about.com/od/state...m-theories.htm

[19:38] stevenaia Michinaga: you spoke of brain offline, as Sophia mentioned last week
[19:39] Paradise Tennant: be nonsensical, if even a few of its fanciful products are truly useful, our dream time will not have been wasted."4
[19:39] Paradise Tennant: missed a bit :)
[19:39] Paradise Tennant: opps sorry cal a double paste

[19:40] Calvino Rabeni: I find the above framework incoherent ... basically why should there be any single explanation or "cause" for what a hypercomplex living system does at night ?
[19:40] Paradise Tennant: smiles because we love meaning
[19:40] Paradise Tennant: we love to think we understand

[19:40] stevenaia Michinaga: often we "work thigns out and have an answer "in the morning" dreams seems to eb great problem solvers
[19:40] Paradise Tennant: smiles
[19:42] stevenaia Michinaga: the handing off of daytime answers to the nighttime problemsolver and back to the daytime for implementation, sounds like something to take advantage of
[19:42] stevenaia Michinaga: (daytime problems, rather)

[19:43] Paradise Tennant: sometimes I feel ..refreshed by dreaming ..like my body knows it needs a holiday so it creates one :))
[19:43] Paradise Tennant: have woken myself up in wonderment at how lovely some of the places are that it takes me
[19:44] stevenaia Michinaga: how could someone have a theory of dreams w/o the participation of the dreamstate sitting in on the discussion
[19:44] Paradise Tennant: smiles lol science reducing things to little bits :))
[19:44] Calvino Rabeni: Nods ... a refreshed experience .. nature's meditation, all mammals know how to do it

[19:46] stevenaia Michinaga: like the dreamer forming a theory of Reality, would seem kind of bias :)
[19:46] Calvino Rabeni: I agree, stev ... how could it be invited to the discussion?
[19:47] stevenaia Michinaga: dreamers lab?
[19:47] stevenaia Michinaga: lucid dreamer would only taint the dream, not sure we are there yet
[19:48] Paradise Tennant: always feels like to me that some part floats out when you dream and snaps back when you awaken
[19:49] Paradise Tennant: like we are tethered on some connecting string :))
[19:49] stevenaia Michinaga: nods, travel is easy when dreaming, no cab fare
[19:49] Paradise Tennant: lol

[19:50] stevenaia Michinaga: you always seem to have what you need when you dream
[19:50] stevenaia Michinaga: in Rl you try to let go and need nothing, in dreams that part does not matter
[19:51] Calvino Rabeni: There are dreams where you need something and can't seem to get it

[19:51] stevenaia Michinaga: hello San
[19:51] Calvino Rabeni: which follow repetitive themes
[19:51] Calvino Rabeni: Good evening ZSan :)
[19:52] Santoshima Resident: evening Zeveryone!
[19:52] Calvino Rabeni: ZZZ I think prepareZZZ one for effective Zdreaming
[19:53] Calvino Rabeni: like cleaning house before a party or the care before going on a road trip
[19:53] Paradise Tennant: hiya san :))
[19:53] Santoshima Resident: :)
[19:54] Santoshima Resident: talking about dreaming?
[19:54] Paradise Tennant: we are talking of dreaming :)))
[19:54] stevenaia Michinaga: I arrived asleep
[19:55] Santoshima Resident: { how did you manage that? }
[19:55] stevenaia Michinaga: arrived, nodded before the second bell rang , woke up in the middle of the conversation, very strange
[19:56] stevenaia Michinaga: more tired than I thought :)
[19:56] stevenaia Michinaga: I want to be a kitty
[19:56] Calvino Rabeni: The dream of the Pavilion
[19:56] Paradise Tennant: lol
[19:56] Santoshima Resident: you may be a kitty, stevenaia
[19:56] Paradise Tennant: lol
[19:56] stevenaia Michinaga: :)

[19:56] Calvino Rabeni: There is always something going on in the background of a dream
[19:57] Santoshima Resident: in my eyes, you are
[19:57] stevenaia Michinaga: I don;t think I;ve ever dreamed of not being human
[19:57] Santoshima Resident: what goes on in the background of a dream?
[19:57] Paradise Tennant: hmmm
[19:57] Santoshima Resident: something deeply known
[19:58] stevenaia Michinaga: sometimes entire cities in my dreams
[19:59] Calvino Rabeni: something implicit and supportive .. the thing that needs to be, for the thing that is the main concern, to be meaningful

[19:59] Calvino Rabeni: perhaps a library of possibilities like unopened books

[19:59] stevenaia Michinaga: nods, the things you need
[20:01] Paradise Tennant: I find there often is a feellng of a presence in my dreams .. I am not alone ..
[20:01] Paradise Tennant: sorry bell
[20:01] stevenaia Michinaga: even if they are the things you need to look for something you don't have
[20:02] stevenaia Michinaga: ooops

[20:03] Paradise Tennant: wonder if it is possible to share dreaming ..
[20:03] Paradise Tennant: to be in the same dream ;)
[20:03] Santoshima Resident: like this one here at the pavilion?
[20:03] stevenaia Michinaga: if you can see things that haven;t happened yet, it must be possible
[20:04] Paradise Tennant: like luci's 9/11 dream
[20:04] Calvino Rabeni: Had shared thoughts with San about that question
[20:05] stevenaia Michinaga: you shared a dream about sharing dreams?
[20:06] Calvino Rabeni: Too much consensus and it is called "reality"
[20:06] Santoshima Resident: hmm
[20:07] Calvino Rabeni: It had to be the way it is ... seemingly ... not apparently loose around the edges

[20:09] Calvino Rabeni: Tonight .. in 2.5 hours roughly , Curiosity lands on the Red Planet ...
[20:09] stevenaia Michinaga: figured they would make it convenient for the west coast
[20:09] Paradise Tennant: lol
[20:10] Calvino Rabeni: stirring up a dust cloud of dreams among astrologers and astronomers alikeon
[20:10] Calvino Rabeni: interestingly mission control operates on the martian diurnal cycle (I read)
[20:10] Paradise Tennant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Science_Laboratory

[20:10] Calvino Rabeni: though I'm not clear why that would be useful...
[20:11] Calvino Rabeni: but it does create a kind of separate dreamspace for the work

[20:12] stevenaia Michinaga: I love thr scene in the movie "My Favorite Martian" where the rover stops just before the ridge crest of a huge martian city, missing the camera view of it by inches
[20:12] stevenaia Michinaga: you just never know
[20:13] Paradise Tennant: hope we don't rile any neighbours :)
[20:14] stevenaia Michinaga: Boxy was talking earlier between sessions of the inevitable Martian "microbe" we will bring back and make a mess of things here
[20:14] stevenaia Michinaga: like we did to this continent w/ smallpox
[20:16] Calvino Rabeni: Ask what dreams are for and you get a story ..the background of which is the dream of the ones you asked, about what human intelligence ought to be about
[20:17] Calvino Rabeni: so an emergent version of it is ... "Dreams are the brain's way of dealing with TMI"
[20:17] Paradise Tennant: they are outloading the excess processing matter :))
[20:17] Paradise Tennant: not sure I agree they seem to be much more than that
[20:18] stevenaia Michinaga: nods
[20:18] Calvino Rabeni: nods
[20:18] Calvino Rabeni: "me three"
[20:18] stevenaia Michinaga: :)
[20:18] stevenaia Michinaga: well I should get back to dreaming
[20:19] Santoshima Resident: me4
[20:19] Calvino Rabeni: :)
[20:19] Paradise Tennant: smiles sweet dreams stev :))
[20:19] stevenaia Michinaga: night all, see you in our dreams :)
[20:19] Santoshima Resident: niteynite, Stev
[20:19] Calvino Rabeni seconds stev's motion
[20:19] Paradise Tennant: smiles nite nite
[20:20] Santoshima Resident: g'night Cal
[20:20] Santoshima Resident: and Paradise
[20:20] Calvino Rabeni: Thanks friends ... be well, sleep .. dream, wake refreshed
[20:20] Paradise Tennant: namaste cal .. san :)) be well :)
[20:20] Santoshima Resident: peace