2012.08.15 13:00 - Prejudice and accents

Wol Euler was guardian for this session.

Wol Euler: hello korel
Korel Laloix: Heya... smiles
Korel Laloix: What you up to today Wol?
Wol Euler: just had dinner, waited half an hour for my sushi takeaway
Wol Euler: feeling full and mellow :)
Wol Euler: and you?

--BELL--

Korel Laloix: full from sushi? How did you manage that?...grins
Wol Euler: heheheh
Wol Euler: well, I'm not a big eater and lunch is my main meal anyway
Korel Laloix: Good class this morning, but slow at work.
Wol Euler: ah
Korel Laloix: I know the feeling.
Korel Laloix: I just get sick of sushi before I get full from it... then I am hungry about 45 min later.
Wol Euler: huh, odd :)
Korel Laloix: But my dietary habits are a bitout there.. I pretty much eat all day.
Wol Euler: wow
Wol Euler: it's probably well that you run so much then :)
Korel Laloix: Well.. I eat to keep my weight up.
Korel Laloix: So I sort of have to force it.
Wol Euler nods.
Korel Laloix: Heya Zen.
Wol Euler: it's funny, when I was younger I could eat all I wanted and never put on weight
Wol Euler: but in the last five or six years, I've started gaining weight, even though I eat less
Zen Arado: Hi Kori, Wol
Wol Euler: hello zen
Korel Laloix: Can I have some?
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Zen Arado: metabolism slows down
Wol Euler: if I could hand it t you .....
Wol Euler nods to zen
Korel Laloix: I just need it in the chest.
Zen Arado: and we do less
Wol Euler: well, I don't know if I can get that specific :)
Korel Laloix smiles
Zen Arado: less active is natural progression
Wol Euler nods.
Korel Laloix: As I have said before, thank goodness for false advertizing bras... grnis
Wol Euler grins.
Zen Arado: men gain weight around tummy
Korel Laloix: I have ben able to keep my weight fairly stable for the last couple of months... so that has been good.
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Korel Laloix: My half brothers are displaying that tendancy very well lately...
Zen Arado: I lost some weight lately
Wol Euler: women tend to distribute it more, men just get a gut
Korel Laloix: Weight goes on my in phases...
Zen Arado: I don't know how much but my trousers got a a lot looser
Wol Euler: huh
Zen Arado: since I went on the low carb diet
Wol Euler: you haven't been ill again?
Wol Euler: ah, that would do it :)
Wol Euler: I htought you meant that you didn't know why you lost it :)
Korel Laloix: Low carb will do it.
Zen Arado: no, it's just that I cant weigh myself
Zen Arado: only time I get wed is when I go to hospital
Zen Arado: weighed
Wol Euler: oh, of course. I never thought of that
Zen Arado: that's a dangerous typo :-)
Korel Laloix: Well glad you don't know then.
Wol Euler: heheheh
Korel Laloix: lol
Wol Euler: those doctors are really keen :)
Zen Arado: it's funny how you don't think that those words sound the same
Zen Arado: weighed and wed
Korel Laloix: I dated a doctor for quite a while.... highly recomended... smiles
Wol Euler grins
Wol Euler: depends on your accent, zen
Wol Euler: there are website that predict where you come from based on your accent
Wol Euler: by asking questions like "do you pronounce Marry and Merry the same?"
Zen Arado: but your accent would change both words?
Korel Laloix: Not seen that before.
Wol Euler: I wonder if I can find the url ..... saw it a long time ago
Wol Euler: hello qt
Korel Laloix: I will have a look in a min.. brbr
Qt Core: hi all
Korel Laloix: Heya QT
Zen Arado: Hi Qt pie
Zen Arado: wonder why I said that
Wol Euler: :)
Qt Core: :)
Zen Arado: ?I never noticed that connection before :-)
Wol Euler smiles.
Zen Arado: hope it wasn't offensive
Wol Euler: the ol' subconscious at work again
Qt Core: np, Zen
Zen Arado: yes, I find a problem helping in an English class with the a sound
Zen Arado: in Northern Ireland we really say ah for a
Zen Arado: that vowel seems to change a lot in different countries
Wol Euler nods.
Qt Core: (from someone ho talks one of the (they say) simplest language from the pronunciation point of view... english pronunciation (and spelling) is a nightmare) :-)
Zen Arado: I was telling a Russian guy to pronounce 'after' with more of an ah sound

--BELL--

Zen Arado: he was pronouncing it more like'efter'
Zen Arado: but then an American woman said that is okay
Wol Euler: hello sam
Zen Arado: so who knows?
Wol Euler nods.
Zen Arado: hi Sam
Wol Euler: accents are not ... what's the word for something that cannot be determined good or bad/right or wrong by argumentation?
Wol Euler: legal term for things that a court cannot settle
Qt Core: debatable ?
Zen Arado: don't know
Zen Arado: it's difficult in a language class though
Wol Euler: close but not quite :) they are very debatable, but not decidable
Qt Core: ;-)
Korel Laloix: I can really minimize my accent if I try... but when I get drunk or tired... it can be fairly bad.
Zen Arado: if you can't say this is the 'right'pronunciation
Wol Euler: one can say that accent X is prettier than accent Y, or that most people speak accent Z
Wol Euler: but there is no absolute reason to say that any is "correct"
Zen Arado: they used to talk about King's English
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: spoken by five or six people :)
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Wol, Zen, Qt, Korel
Wol Euler: held in amused contempt by the rest of the population
Zen Arado: but if you want to learn the language how do you know how to pronounce the vowels then?
Wol Euler: exactly :)
Qt Core: i always thoutght about not having an accent, but the first time i talked to an once online friend she sais i had an heavy Milan accent
Wol Euler: I was really pleased when I was learning Italian, and a taxi driver in Rome told me I had a Milanese accent (because I'd started there)
Zen Arado: :)
Qt Core: (i'm speaking about my italian)
Wol Euler: understood :)
Korel Laloix: i would not mind learning Itallian.
Korel Laloix: Love the sound of it.... it even sounds gracefull when shouted in anger...
Qt Core: that's why you always use ciao ? ;-)
Wol Euler: :)
Korel Laloix: No... I roomed next to an Italian girl when I lived down in Tampa.
Korel Laloix: She got mad at me alot... lol.. fun memroies.
Wol Euler: :)
Qt Core: i had a weird language experience, yesterday... in a dream
Korel Laloix: Save it for the dream workshop then?
Wol Euler listens.
Korel Laloix: Or do you want to chat about it now?
Korel Laloix: Or both?
oO0Oo Resident laughs
oO0Oo Resident: and listens
Qt Core: i was in New York with a friends
Qt Core: why New York ?
Qt Core: and suddenly i felt something was wrong
Korel Laloix: Lots wrong there for sure.
Zen Arado: :)
Wol Euler listens.
Qt Core: the wrong thing was the language, everyone was speaking italian, so i asked to this friend of mine why they weren't speaking in english
Qt Core: then everyone started speaking in english
Qt Core: then the dream-plot started getting weirder and weirder and i awoke
Wol Euler: how did you feel about htat?
Qt Core: i'm curious if it was part of the original dream plot or more rational part of it observing the dream and noticing the "error"
Qt Core: it=me, intereresting typo too
Zen Arado: there is probably some parts of New York where they would speak Italian?
Wol Euler: in some part of New York *every* language is spoken :)
Qt Core: yes, but a couple of chinese barmans is improbable ;-)
Zen Arado: I think there are a few Irish people there too :-)
Wol Euler: did you feel like they had changed language so you couldn't follow them?
Wol Euler: it could be a pretty uncomfortable, almost paranoid situation
Qt Core: no, the feel was more about having caught an error in a truman show situation (still a little paranoid)

--BELL--

Wol Euler: surrounded by actors :)
Zen Arado: perhaps (my interpretation) it is suggesting that you think you don't understand people but if you communicated more with them you would?
Qt Core: and maybe i even should ;-)
Zen Arado: :)
Zen Arado: this is true for all of us know, we correct stereotypes of people instead of really trying to understand them
Zen Arado: no?
Zen Arado: erect
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: people, and also places and things and events ....
Zen Arado: yes
Wol Euler: which brings us to Play as Being and dropping preconceptions :)
Zen Arado: preconceptions exactly
Zen Arado: prejudices, pre-anythings
Zen Arado: :)
Wol Euler nods.
Zen Arado: I had a weird dream to last night but it's pretty boring
Wol Euler: qt, do you often dream in foreign cities?
Wol Euler: (hold that one second please zen :)
Zen Arado: sure
Korel Laloix: I think prejudging is highly underrated and missunderstould.
Zen Arado: how do you mean Kori?
Korel Laloix: It is almost cliche to trash prejudice.. but it is a fact of life and is function in most circumstances.
Qt Core: noalmost never, wol, usually i dream in unnamed places
Wol Euler: interesting, ty
Wol Euler: hello bruce
Korel Laloix: Heya Bruce.
Zen Arado: it's more about being aware that our opinions are prejudices sometimes maybe and treating them as useful but suspect
Zen Arado: Hi Bruce
Wol Euler: or should that be "arrrrrrr bruce matey"
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, folks.
Bruce Mowbray listens to catch the frift.
Qt Core: hi bruce
Bruce Mowbray: also the drift*
Korel Laloix: I agree... but being a 4'9 female.. I have to make decisions ahed of time that a 6'6 man would not have ot make.
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Bruce
Zen Arado: we are just wallowing about in prejudices Bruce
Korel Laloix: in terms of safety and the like.
Korel Laloix: But on the other hand... it can be bad.
Zen Arado: it's the frozeness of the pre-judgement maybe
Korel Laloix: When used for unjust reasons in government or economics.
Korel Laloix: Heya
Wol Euler: hello eliza
Korel Laloix: brb
Zen Arado: Hi Eluza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Everyone :)) Please meet Lukey... here for the first time
Bruce Mowbray: rrrrh!
Zen Arado: Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: we were just roaming the dome
Zen Arado: dome roamin :)
Eliza Madrigal: we have one tiny seat, Lukey
Wol Euler: hello lukey, nice avatar
Lukey Woodget: Hello everybody
Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, Lukey!
Zen Arado: Hi Lukey :)
Lukey Woodget: well my av is a bit old
Wol Euler: still cute :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Wol Euler: has Eliza told you about us, lukey?
oO0Oo Resident waves
Lukey Woodget: well in jeneral
Qt Core: sometimes i wonder if in some cases the word (if it can be called one alreadymadejudices could be more appropriate, for example for the judgment about not liking eating lemons
Wol Euler: okay, I'll give you an intro in IM so we don't disturb the others
Lukey Woodget: i must say befor i start im dislexic
Zen Arado: np
Korel Laloix: There is a bit of that around here Lukey.
Eliza Madrigal: just a little :) Lukey has a good impression of us from seeing the art work
Korel Laloix: You will fit in perfectly.
Wol Euler: and Korel, I'd like to suggest a distinction between prejudice (all redheaded people are scum) and intuition (that guy looks angry)
Korel Laloix: OK..
Eliza Madrigal: serious topic today?
Korel Laloix: Might be a semantics thing.
Korel Laloix: About prejudice and accents.
Zen Arado: alreadymade judices ..interesting word Qt :)
Korel Laloix: Maybe I take the word literally instead of using the modern meaning.

--BELL--

Zen Arado: Hi Ari
Arisia Vita: yw bell, and hi all
Zen Arado: I am going to remain sub judice
Zen Arado: :)
Wol Euler: hello ari
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ari :)
Eliza Madrigal: oops
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Ari
Wol Euler: ?
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Ari!
Qt Core: may i ask if i'm the only one seeing the monorail cart zipping south with no rail underneath it and disappearing a few meters after leaving the pagoda at full speed ?
Eliza Madrigal: I see that sometimes too!
Bruce Mowbray: I saw that the other day, Qt.
Eliza Madrigal: when I asked, I was the only one at the time
oO0Oo Resident: And i saw a flying cat ; )
Zen Arado: yeh I see maroon bits of the train often
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Qt Core: i see it all the time
Wol Euler: hehehehe
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Bruce Mowbray: It's a bit like a meteor -- you need to be looking in the right direction when it flies by.
Qt Core: looking in the right direction... but not being in the wrong place...
oO0Oo Resident: here it comes
Bruce Mowbray: I saw it fly by like that at the Original Face session at Calvino's place on Monday.
Eliza Madrigal: maybe it is symbolic
Wol Euler skritches the kitty's ears
Zen Arado: yes I see flashes of maroon from it at the Original Face meeting every week
Bruce Mowbray: so "symbolic" -- meaning like, some of us are "off the track"?
Eliza Madrigal: ^^
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Zen Arado: hope so
Zen Arado: :)
Wol Euler chuckles.
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I have been asking today... How many present, read the session logs? If so, how often?
Eliza Madrigal: (informal poll)
Wol Euler: I used to at least glance over every one
Eliza Madrigal: hhaha Lukey
Korel Laloix: Ido read them... but it goes in waves.
Wol Euler: now, to be honest, only if somebody mentions a particular log in conversation
Zen Arado: me..rarely
Lukey Woodget: Eliza has been so kind to bring me here today to be with you all
Zen Arado: good Lukey
Bruce Mowbray: rarely for moi, also -- unless someone draws my attention to a specific log -- or unless I'm responsible for posting it.
Eliza Madrigal: nice to have you here Lukey
Bruce Mowbray: You add a warm fuzziness to the assembly, Lukey.
Qt Core: being honest read very few of them... but i have kept a list of mails naming interesting ones
Eliza Madrigal: thank you... appreciate the feedback
Lukey Woodget: you look very cool buuce
Korel Laloix: And I am likely to use teh key word seach to look up old discussions.
Korel Laloix: I find that interesting.
Bruce Mowbray: TY! AHHRRRRRH!
Lukey Woodget: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: :) Kori... for random things ?
oO0Oo Resident: I have read almost every log since I began PaB. That is from that time to now.
Zen Arado: I would love to know the statistics of hits
Korel Laloix: Not random really.. but something will be on my mind.
Zen Arado: wow Sam
Korel Laloix: Sometimes random though.
Eliza Madrigal: ah, :)
Wol Euler: wow
Bruce Mowbray: wow -- Admires 0's perserverence.
Eliza Madrigal: it is very impressive
Eliza Madrigal: you and I may be the only ones, though I've been less careful in reading recently
Korel Laloix: Like... did you know.. Wombats were mentioned in three PAB chats.. at least in the wiki.
Bruce Mowbray: indeed, Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal giggles Kori
Zen Arado: ?
Zen Arado: :)
Wol Euler: :)
Korel Laloix: Where as sex was mentioned 288 times.
Bruce Mowbray Googles Wombats.
Wol Euler: only?
Wol Euler: that is surprising
Zen Arado: we'll have a wombat themed session
Wol Euler: I'd have thought we talked about wombats far more often than that
Eliza Madrigal: :) remembers when arabella asked, during a wok session, what a gopher was
Zen Arado: dropping wombats to see what is
Zen Arado: :)
Wol Euler: and whether they bounce
Zen Arado: :)
Qt Core: what about wombat sex ?
Eliza Madrigal: well now that's in there

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: along with muskrat love
Korel Laloix smiles
Bruce Mowbray: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wombat
Korel Laloix: I seem to have a certain tallent for turning the subject.
Eliza Madrigal: :) well thank you for the polling data too
Zen Arado: you have dispelled our ignorance about wombats Kori
Wol Euler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKw8j7GLSdw (muskrat love ;)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Zen Arado: didn't realise that was a song
Zen Arado: I knew about Radar Love
Korel Laloix: I do try.
Eliza Madrigal: oh, I didn't know that version... knew this one : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HOkm1orsro
Zen Arado: nice version Eliza
Bruce Mowbray wonders why he thought the Carpenters sang that one.
Zen Arado: they certainly could
Eliza Madrigal: the tune is nice I guess
Korel Laloix: From your comment, I am glad I don't have sound at the moment.
Eliza Madrigal: but it is one of those songs that doesn't translate to our time well I think :)
Zen Arado: sounds like one of theirs
Wol Euler: heheh, it is probably far too mellow and sweet for you, Korel :)
Wol Euler: judging by the songs you've suggested to us :
Korel Laloix: Probably?
Eliza Madrigal: yes I'm relieved you don't have sound today Korel
Zen Arado: us old folks like it
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Wol Euler: heheheh
Bruce Mowbray: Did you folks reach some understanding about accents and prejudice?
Zen Arado: nah just keeping our prejudices
Bruce Mowbray: kk. Thanks, Zen.
Zen Arado: :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Korel Laloix: Yes, if you don't have a north east Oklahoma accent you are weird.
Wol Euler: hehehe
Qt Core: sometimes we just need to leave ut the starting p from prejudices...
Zen Arado: that's not an accent that's another language
Korel Laloix smiles
Zen Arado: I watched a movie called 'leaves of grass'set in Oklahoma and I almost needed subtitles
Wol Euler grins.
Zen Arado: y'all
Eliza Madrigal: http://vimeo.com/38138351#at=0 <--- for later (about mirror neurons and empathy)
Zen Arado: American English will be a separate language in a few hundred years
Zen Arado: now, maybe not because the Internet will standardise language
Korel Laloix: Not heard of it.
Lukey Woodget: im English
Zen Arado: languages only changed when countries where are apart
Zen Arado: somebody disagree, I'm not sure about this
Zen Arado: :)
Lukey Woodget: life is complex
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Zen Arado: accents certainly only changed in countries when there was far less communication than now
Eliza Madrigal: new languages seem to crop up with the internet... thanks to texting
Zen Arado: there isn't much difference in accents in Australia
Zen Arado: whereas in England every county has a different accent
Zen Arado: because people were more isolated
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: So, do prejudices get built up because of these differences?
Zen Arado: but Americans are changing English for sure
Qt Core: around here, there are different accents in a 5 km radius
Zen Arado: the problem is which is the correct version, British English or American English?
Zen Arado: Yes same in northern Ireland Qt
Wol Euler: neither! canadian english is proper
Zen Arado: or Australian English :)
Korel Laloix: Canadians speek English?
Bruce Mowbray: I had a very POSITIVE bias for the Scottish accent when I was there -- but also discovered that some folks in parts of Scotland could not understand folks from other parts.
Korel Laloix: I don't know what you are talking aboooooot.

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: A sort of tartan tribalism -- perhaps due to clanish separations through the centuries.
Zen Arado: Australians often accused me of being Canadian
Bruce Mowbray cannot figure why he loves the Scottish accent so much. . .
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm.. Fascinating, Zen.
Zen Arado: East Canadians sound like N.Irish
Eliza Madrigal: hm
Zen Arado: probably a lot settled there
Bruce Mowbray: yes, especially around Nova Scotia, Zen.
Korel Laloix: Accuse someone of being Canadian? Like it is crime?
Zen Arado: :)
Zen Arado: just a manner of speaking Kori
Korel Laloix smiles
Wol Euler wakes with a guilty start
Eliza Madrigal: hoarding chocolate?
Korel Laloix: I like that Wol.. will have to quote you on that.
Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Wol!
Wol Euler: :)
Zen Arado: had a long day....
Wol Euler: actually yes :) quite strenuous
Zen Arado: what is my cat looking up at?
Wol Euler: had to think hard, in this heat!
Zen Arado: has taken to Woly
Wol Euler: awwwww :)
Eliza Madrigal: Zen's swimming cat
Bruce Mowbray loves Zen's kitty.
Wol Euler: because I keep scratching its belly
Eliza Madrigal: zen's cat attacked me once
Eliza Madrigal: careful :)
Zen Arado: shhh
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: she has reformed
Wol Euler: awwww
Wol Euler twiddles the cat's ears gently
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps the kitty has recently taken the Precepts?
Zen Arado: it sees a bird up there
Zen Arado: heh
Zen Arado: no killing mice
Bruce Mowbray: no kitty gin.
Zen Arado: no selling kitty gin
Lukey Woodget: I have 5 cats
Korel Laloix: I do like gin.
Zen Arado: (let out clause)
Eliza Madrigal: 5?
Wol Euler smiles.
Lukey Woodget: yep
Bruce Mowbray: I like it too, Zen.
Bruce Mowbray: I meant, Kori!
Bruce Mowbray: sry, Zen.
Zen Arado: let out claws
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: the two I have (well one isn't my official cat) are handfulls... :::imagines 5::::
Zen Arado: do women like cats more than men?
Zen Arado: knows lots of women with lots of cats
Zen Arado: and they keep posting photos of them on Facebook
Lukey Woodget: oh yes but if you have the space its ok
Lukey Woodget: you know there can be two different options
Wol Euler: are you asking whether women prefer felines to male humans? :)
Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Lukey Woodget: cats or rats
Zen Arado: (has suspicions aling those lines)
Korel Laloix: Well, men are better at moving furnature.
Zen Arado: cats and rats?
Wol Euler: and taking out the garbage
Korel Laloix: But for all else, probably cats.
Zen Arado: that all?
Korel Laloix: True.
Wol Euler: cats are more likely to bring it in :)
Lukey Woodget: if you have cats there are no rats
Eliza Madrigal: well it may have a little to do with extroversion and introversion too - not too many cat parks about, where people get their cats together to socialize
Wol Euler: (dead stuff)
Korel Laloix: They have a couple of uses.
Lukey Woodget: my cats kill all rats
Wol Euler: (and mostly-dead stuff)

--BELL--

oO0Oo Resident:
Bruce Mowbray: Sry to violate the bell drop code, but thanks everyone.
oO0Oo Resident: ty.. bye everyone
Eliza Madrigal waves to Bruce and O
Wol Euler: bye sam, bye bruce!
Wol Euler: take care
Qt Core: Bye Sam
Qt Core: and bye Bruce
Zen Arado: byee bruce and sam
Eliza Madrigal: guess no book club today :) will have to tinker with the idea I guess
Wol Euler: oh, should we have been doing that?
Wol Euler: is today wednesday?
Wol Euler is oblivious.
Eliza Madrigal: it is :) but maybe we didn't officially decide to do it
Eliza Madrigal: who can tell
Zen Arado: maybe Bleu forgot
Zen Arado: thought we did
Eliza Madrigal is equally oblivious
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: but I have to get going... prepare dinner, etc
Zen Arado: I better retire too
Eliza Madrigal: nice to see everyone and thanks for coming Lukey
Zen Arado: with cat
Lukey Woodget: im off to thank you for having me
Qt Core: bye Eliza, Zen
Eliza Madrigal waves warmly
Zen Arado: nice to see you here Lukey
Zen Arado: byee all
Wol Euler: bye lukey, nice to meet you
Korel Laloix: Take care all.
Wol Euler: bye eliza, zen, korel, ari
Wol Euler: I guess that just leaves you and me, qt
Arisia Vita: it was great being with you all
Korel Laloix: Always a pleasure.
Arisia Vita: hope to again soon
Korel Laloix smiles
Qt Core: bye Korel, Ari
Arisia Vita: be well and happy till then
Qt Core: you had to think hard, did you had to work, today, Wol ?
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: checking invoices
Wol Euler: we'd already checked it once, threw out a few items, the contractor complained and threatened to sue
Wol Euler: so we had to go through the building and see where we could compromise
Qt Core: so more than hard thinking: grumpy thinking
Wol Euler: yes, that too heheheheh
Wol Euler: but it was really strenuous, somehow
Wol Euler: unpleasant work, and that while pleasant stuff was waiting for me, put aside for that
Qt Core: so a double loss
Wol Euler: yep
Wol Euler: I just hope it will end there, and the contractor will go away happy
Wol Euler: or less unhappy
Qt Core: and just never do business with them anymore
Wol Euler: not our choice :)
Wol Euler: any building put up using public money, the contracts must be awarded by open tender
Wol Euler: we are obliged to recommend the cheapest bidder
Qt Core: and being a nice guy can't be put in the technical requisites list ?
Wol Euler: nope
Wol Euler: we can't even exclude somebody whom we know to be a lousy workman
Qt Core: no way to ask certificates from previous works ?

--BELL--

Wol Euler: we require references, sure, but those are easily arranged by a corrupt contractor
Qt Core: btw it is not much different here in public works ,... then here there is mafia too
Wol Euler: their right to steal from the public purse trumps our duty to protect it
Qt Core: slowly getting out from the sad truth of it
Wol Euler: well, it's not a right to steal, that is technically wrong :)
Wol Euler: but htey have the right to do business, and if we try to exclude them because they are thieves and bad workmen, they can sue us for infringing that right
Qt Core: wrong too
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: we just do the best we can, and try to police them during the work and when they submit their bills
Qt Core: around here they are trying to not let mafia enter in the works for expo 2015, and i think they may be successful as in they seem not to be albe to start them at all ;-)...

--BELL--

Wol Euler: this isn't mafia, just petty thievery
Qt Core: lucky you ;-)
Wol Euler grins
Wol Euler: not to say that they don't exist, just at my level of doing business they are not apparent
Qt Core: i'm quite pleased with public works, lately, after some ten years they ended a big one that made my daily commute a nightmare (even if they always kept open some of the street)
Wol Euler grins.
Qt Core: just saw a wandering monorail cart
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: lag :)
Qt Core: it keep (second) life interesting
Wol Euler: yep
Wol Euler: I'm going to have to go to bed, qt, it really was a strenuous day
Qt Core: that work stopped when it was half done as the firm doing it first decided they weren't able to finish it then went bankrupt
Wol Euler: goodnight, take care, dream well :)
Wol Euler: oh wow
Qt Core: i'll try, sleep well you too