2012.08.18 13:00 - Enlarged Prostates and Squirrel Bridges

The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray. The comments and photo are by Bruce Mowbray.

Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Mick!
Mickorod Renard: hi Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: I've forgotten the topic of the week. Do you remember it?
Mickorod Renard: my condolences for the other day,,the loss of your bro
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you so much, Mick. That really means a lot to me.
Mickorod Renard: i am sorry, I have been a little otherwise distracted from PaB issues of late
Bruce Mowbray: I'm just now reading a FINE tribute to him in the Longview, Washington, newspaper.
Mickorod Renard: :)
Mickorod Renard: that's nice
Bruce Mowbray: (just published today).
Mickorod Renard: wow
Mickorod Renard: was he getting on a lil in years?
Bruce Mowbray: I will be out there next Saturday for the annual Squirrel Bridge Festival..... (strangely, believe it!)
Mickorod Renard: sounds intriguing
Bruce Mowbray: He was 2 years older than I -- would have been 72 in November.
Bruce Mowbray: I will send you a copy of the article via email later.
Mickorod Renard: ok,,not so old then,,these days folk seem to get a good innings
Mickorod Renard: thanks
Mickorod Renard: what's the squirrel bridge thingy?
Bruce Mowbray: There. I've just sent it along.
Bruce Mowbray: The news article explained everything.
Mickorod Renard: thanks, I best not open it at the mom,,like Pila I am hanging close to crashing on this set up
Bruce Mowbray: My bro and I spent many hours talking about this project. . . and it helped us reconcile some familial differences, I feel.
Mickorod Renard: that's wonderful
Bruce Mowbray: np -- It will be waiting for you whenever you'd wish to check it out.
Mickorod Renard: ok,,maybe I can get it on my phone,,2 secs
Bruce Mowbray: I will be there next Saturday to be part of the festival. . .
Bruce Mowbray: It will come as an Adobe Acrobat file.
Bruce Mowbray: probably too small for the phone.
Bruce Mowbray: no pressure for time today.

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: ok,,just uploading now
Bruce Mowbray: In case you don't get it on your phone, the Squirrel Bridge "thingy" is an annual festival in Longview, Washington USA -- and my brother's bridge design won first prize . . and they have actually built the bridge -- and it will be dedicated next Saturday.
Mickorod Renard: i seem to remember you saying something about this once before
Mickorod Renard: wow, its open
Mickorod Renard: I like it
Bruce Mowbray: http://tdn.com/news/local/longview-s-third-squirrel-bridge-designed-by-late-attorney/article_3866e8f2-e8be-11e1-931a-001a4bcf887a.html
Bruce Mowbray: There is the article about my brother.
Mickorod Renard: amazing...its quite interesting for me as once a year at school we do a similar thing with kids but using straws
Bruce Mowbray: Wonderful!
Bruce Mowbray: Please say more!
Mickorod Renard: well, we set them up in teams,,show them video footage of bridge design,,explain loads and triangulation ect,,and then they compete against each other to build a bridge and then it gets tested with ever increasing loads
Mickorod Renard: was it the prostrate cancer then?,,I had a test last week
Bruce Mowbray: I've had two prostate biopsies so far -- not a pleasant experience, actually.
Bruce Mowbray: But about the bridges....
Mickorod Renard: we just use art straws,,like the ones you drink through
Bruce Mowbray: It was one of my brother's dreams to go into the local schools and get this going as a project.
Bruce Mowbray: and it seems that you already have done that!
Bruce Mowbray: No, the cancer did not kill him -- heart attack and stroke did that.
Mickorod Renard: yes, this year we did something different,,building trebuchets and so forth
Bruce Mowbray: ALL of the males on both sides of my family have died of strokes.
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Mickorod Renard: ohh wow,,a much better way to go
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, a blessing to have strokes in one's genome.
Bruce Mowbray: So -- you are building straw bridges?
Mickorod Renard: yes, my dad had a dreadful death and it took too long,,my mum went during her sleep unexpected
Bruce Mowbray: (My mother also died of a stroke, btw -- and her parents, as well, and her brother - -  and my grandfather on dad's side, etc etc etc.)

Mickorod Renard: we have done the bridges for several years now, but this year had a change,,but we will go back to bridges
Bruce Mowbray: I do not mean to be morbid, now, but there is NO WAY I would allow myself to endure a prolonged suffering, demise.
Bruce Mowbray: Suicide would be far preferable. . .
Bruce Mowbray: (MORBID -- sry!)
Mickorod Renard: its surprising how much weight the straw ones can take
Bruce Mowbray: Yes,
Bruce Mowbray: I have heard of this being done with toothpicks, as well.
Bruce Mowbray: and also with cardboard.
Mickorod Renard: yes me too,,,i wondered if my test had been bad I may have sneaked off and gone and joined the fighting in Syria
Bruce Mowbray: sry -- if that wasn't a joke, I should not have laughed.
Mickorod Renard: with the view of being reckless
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: Well, my brother's PSA was over 1600.
Bruce Mowbray: Then they got it down to lower than my own.
Mickorod Renard: he he ,,it's life,,I am sure when we die we will find out it was all a joke
Bruce Mowbray: So, ironically. . . it was something else altogether that took him.
Mickorod Renard: mine was amazingly low
Mickorod Renard: seems like I just have a bigger than normal prostrate
Bruce Mowbray: Although he was on chemo -- the day before he had the stroke and the heart attack, so I'm guessing that the chemo had something to do with that.
Bruce Mowbray: enlarged prostate is very common .
Bruce Mowbray: In fact, I would say it is "normal"
Mickorod Renard: they gave me medication but i have refused to take it cos I believe in faith and natural stuff
Bruce Mowbray: Good for you!
Bruce Mowbray: I do too!
Mickorod Renard: :)
Bruce Mowbray: I figure that Nature knows what she's doing.
Mickorod Renard: I just get pee'd off not being able to pee in the general fashion
Mickorod Renard: that's my take too
Bruce Mowbray: I have no problem with that, actually, but have close friends who do.
Mickorod Renard: re nature
Bruce Mowbray: I figure that as long as I have no symptoms whatsoever of the prostate condition, I won't have a third biopsy.
Bruce Mowbray: Do you know about PCA3 --- the genetic marker test?
Mickorod Renard: I have been very fortunate with health,,but the very rare time i been for help they have never been able to do anything for me
Mickorod Renard: I do know a little about it Bruce

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: http://www.pca3.org/
Mickorod Renard: the biops can be risky too I believe
Mickorod Renard: oops
Bruce Mowbray: np --- ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: I have had 76 medical appointments during the past year -- 35 different docs - - - four different hospitals. . . So, I'm not too eager to return to that routine.
Bruce Mowbray: (only a few of those had anything to do with the prostate).
Mickorod Renard: that's incredible Bruce, I do recall you telling us about your issues,,I am glad you got sorted the way you did
Bruce Mowbray: The head of the American Cancer Society advises AGAINST the PSA test!
Mickorod Renard: yes?
Bruce Mowbray: yeppers -- I will find that for you... Just a sec....
Mickorod Renard: I did tell my doc that i wouldn't have any intrusive stuff,,other than his finger,,cos I have a belief,,probably worthless,,and I wouldn't want to shatter it
Bruce Mowbray: Well, there are more links than I'm able to investigate right now:
Bruce Mowbray: https://www.google.com/search?q=Prostate+American+Cancer+Society&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Mickorod Renard: I have even shunned painkillers when I've been in pain and found that the body soon tolerates it anyway
Bruce Mowbray: So, your beliefs are more influential in your decision-making?
Mickorod Renard: thanks Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: I think mine are also.
Mickorod Renard: I don't seem to do alot of decision making.
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Aph!
Mickorod Renard: he he
Mickorod Renard: Hi Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello!
Mickorod Renard: Hi Aph
Mickorod Renard: oops
Bruce Mowbray respectfully suggests that Mick and I change the subject.
Mickorod Renard: ok
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Aphrodite Macbain: is very curious now..
Bruce Mowbray: (We've been talking about prostate cancer screenings, Aph.)
Aphrodite Macbain: Ah. Good. get one!
Bruce Mowbray: afk for just a sec....
Bruce Mowbray: brb
Mickorod Renard: sorry Folks, I have just been ordered to go and get some milk from the shop
Aphrodite Macbain: That was an amazing dream you described the other day Mick
Mickorod Renard: will come back soon
Mickorod Renard: thanks,,sorry they are weird
Aphrodite Macbain: OK both of you are now afk
Bruce Mowbray: [back!]
Aphrodite Macbain: WB
Bruce Mowbray: TY!
Mickorod Renard: its funny though, I did find myself in the similar brick arched cavern last Thursday, by chance
Bruce Mowbray: Did you get the newspaper article about my brother, Aph?
Mickorod Renard: ok,,c u soon
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Mickorod Renard: I will leave avi here but he will crash soon
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes, but I haven't had a chance to read it. I had to serve coffee in my cafe
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal waves hello
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, Mick!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Eliza
Bruce Mowbray: Bye - at least - to Mick's meaty-avi.
Eliza Madrigal: aw am I missing Mick?
Aphrodite Macbain: That was a nice session this morn
Bruce Mowbray: Not much you missed, Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: yes it was, thanks Aph
Bruce Mowbray: Mick and I were just talking about our respective prostate conditions.
Eliza Madrigal: Oh I see
Bruce Mowbray: Hardly the topic of the week, I hope!!!
Aphrodite Macbain: except that it is important to get them checked
Bruce Mowbray: but there was also a meta-topic....
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes I think about villages, where individual health is group business.. everyone sort of looking out for one another, giving feedback on perception of wellness, etc
Bruce Mowbray: trusting "beliefs."
Eliza Madrigal: ah, interesting
Aphrodite Macbain: do villages do that Eliza?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes.
Eliza Madrigal: well in some literature I've read, yes, or perhaps I should say tribe
Bruce Mowbray: Mick was saying that he prefers to trust his beliefs about medicine . . .
Bruce Mowbray: and that these sometimes over-ride the medical evidence.
Eliza Madrigal: intuition
Bruce Mowbray: perhaps intuition. . .
Bruce Mowbray: Mick called it "faith."
Aphrodite Macbain: Hmm. well only we can feel what it's like in our own bodies I suppose
Eliza Madrigal: I agree... if I'd listened to medical advice I'd been given when ill I don't think I'd be as functional as I am now
Eliza Madrigal: :) Aph
Bruce Mowbray: [13:34] Mickorod Renard: I did tell my doc that i wouldnt have any intrusive stuff,,other than his finger,,cos I have a belief,,probably worthless,,and I wouldn't want to shatter it
Aphrodite Macbain: But doctors have more knowledge and experience about other things.
Bruce Mowbray: The 76 visits to docs that I've taken during the past year have not helped the two conditions that I originally presented for -- not one bit.
Aphrodite Macbain: hmm. It can be problematic simply trusting one's own beliefs only.
Aphrodite Macbain: It narrows one's understanding
Bruce Mowbray: except that I now have MUCH MORE information about both of them.

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: I feel that "beliefs" can be problematic all by themselves -- (no offense intended, Mick).
Eliza Madrigal nods.... it has to be a relationship perhaps
Eliza Madrigal: both intuition, and communication, openness to "feedback" :)
Eliza Madrigal: 76 doctor visits ::head spins::::
Eliza Madrigal: medicine is another east/west divide in a way
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: Diagnosing an illness is a bit like the blind men and the elephant
Aphrodite Macbain: but It helps when there are lots of them and they communicate well
Aphrodite Macbain: to each other
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: good analogy
Aphrodite Macbain: and some have really sensitive hands
Eliza Madrigal: I'm very thankful for some of the doctors I've been helped by, yet there have also been times when I've taken what they've advised as an outline to work with rather than gospel
Bruce Mowbray: My docs communicate very well with each other -- being part of the same network. . . and THEY WERE ALL GREAT!!!!
Bruce Mowbray: but they couldn't help my "problem."
Eliza Madrigal: hmmm
Bruce Mowbray: Let's face it --- Medicine is not Truth -- it is an art.
Aphrodite Macbain: I guess there are still problems that can't be solved
Bruce Mowbray: And my docs are fine artists.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods. good analogy
Bruce Mowbray: Life is perhaps one of those "problems."
Bruce Mowbray: and so it is!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: and isn't that WONDERFUL?!
Bruce Mowbray: so many unanswerable questions!
Eliza Madrigal: the big catastrophe
Aphrodite Macbain: I think of life as a curious puzzle
Bruce Mowbray: the Big Adventure!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: rather than a problem
Bruce Mowbray: yes!
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: a Rubics cube
Bruce Mowbray: and I have a special "sack" or "bag" or "container" in which I hold all of the unanswerables.
Bruce Mowbray: the MYSTERY!
Bruce Mowbray: AHHHHH!
Eliza Madrigal: I like the word catastrophe because of someone who said "say yes to the whole catastrophe" and in moments when I feel completely overwhelmed, this makes me smile
Bruce Mowbray: me too, Eliza!
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Bruce Mowbray: THE FULL CATASTROPHE! - - Yes!
Eliza Madrigal: yes!
Aphrodite Macbain: Is life a catastrophe?
Bruce Mowbray: also, helps build compassion for those who face far more catastrophic things than I do.
Eliza Madrigal: can be messy Aph... personalities... 'situations'...
Aphrodite Macbain: yeh - people make the problems!
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Eliza Madrigal: people are question marks
Bruce Mowbray: but it balances out -- in miraculous says. . . this strange "LIFE" thingy.
Eliza Madrigal: walking around
Aphrodite Macbain: and exclamation marks..
Eliza Madrigal: miraculous catastrophe
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Aphrodite Macbain: ? ? ? ? ?
Eliza Madrigal: cute Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: couldn't figure out how to put legs on them
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, a miraculous catastrophe . . . perfectly said.
Aphrodite Macbain: the big bang?
Bruce Mowbray hasn't seen anyone explode recently.
Aphrodite Macbain: chaos is catastrophe?
Eliza Madrigal: :) Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: I do not feel that chaos = catastrophe.
Aphrodite Macbain watches to see if Bruce explodes
Bruce Mowbray: I feel chaos is more of an opportunity.
Eliza Madrigal: mmm
Aphrodite Macbain: then why catastrophe?
Aphrodite Macbain: or whither?
Bruce Mowbray: When things seems most chaotic -- there is the most opportunity to re-arrange the elements.
Aphrodite Macbain: true. change =movement
Aphrodite Macbain: not always for the better
Bruce Mowbray: You see? I re-arranged the elements -- and did NOT explode, as expected!

--BELL--

Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: and better relative to time
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, dear Aph!
Aphrodite Macbain tiptoes out to lie down. Too damn hot.
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, dear Eliza!
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye dear people
Eliza Madrigal: bye for now Aph, Bruce, sleepy Mick (that's funny my daughter was just playing that song "Too Darn Hot")
Eliza Madrigal: bye :)
Aphrodite Macbain: ooooo
Bruce Mowbray: Hugs all around -- especially to sleepy Mick.
Eliza Madrigal tucks Mick in
Eliza Madrigal: :)