2012.08.15 07:00 - Nisargadatta, Klimt, Klee and Practical science

    Table of contents
    1. 1.  

     

    The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado.

    We were at Kira Cafe due to region being down but it came back early today:

    Zen Arado: over to the right looks ...down
    Zen Arado: don't remember seeing ocean there before
    Zen Arado: it's pouring rain here
    Zen Arado: in RL
    Eliza Madrigal: nice
    Zen Arado: hmmm
    Eliza Madrigal: it has been pouring for days and days here but today is very bright and sunny
    Zen Arado: didn't think it rained for long perods in Florida
    Eliza Madrigal: oh yes... especially in Summer.... one year it rained , no, stormed, every day in July
    Zen Arado: but not all day?
    Zen Arado: Hi Riddle :)
    Eliza Madrigal: our pattern is to have storms beginning around 3 pm for a few hours
    Zen Arado: yes...Sydney was like that
    Eliza Madrigal: the day heats heats heats , gets sweaty, then showers
    Zen Arado: but short showers
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Zen,Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Riddle :)
    Zen Arado: here it can be steady all day
    Zen Arado: but not heavy
    Riddle Sideways: ah remembering rain in Florida
    Riddle Sideways: 3:10 north side of street
    Riddle Sideways: 3:43 south side
    Eliza Madrigal: haha.... yes sometimes you can see the showers... moving around... similar to the Ziggy cartoons
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Zen Arado: is there a theme or topic this week?
    Zen Arado: I forget
    Eliza Madrigal: "ignorance"
    Riddle Sideways: ignorant of it
    Zen Arado: ah but that's theme for bookclub tonight?
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) overlapping
    Zen Arado: there won't be anything left to say
    Eliza Madrigal: we can of course pretend not to know the topic and discuss anything at all :)

    I introduced a Nisargaddata quote:

    Zen Arado: I was just reading Maharaj
    Zen Arado: (Nisargadatta)
    Zen Arado: Q: Is there any relationship between pure being and particular being?

    Riddle Sideways hits buzzer and ignorantly answers that the some is always a part of all
    Zen Arado: just right of us is down still
    Riddle Sideways: yep, sim neighbor gone
    Zen Arado: (wondered about seeing the ocean)
    Zen Arado: this bit just came back Riddle
    Eliza Madrigal: this bit an expression of the whole
    Zen Arado: hah
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: blinking in and out of sight
    Zen Arado: could also call it the relative and absolute?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes ... it is so odd in language though, because someone might say 'absolute' is without dualities but relative/absolute is a duality...
    Zen Arado: or it is and it isn't
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Zen Arado: M: What relationship can there be between what is and what merely appears to be? Is there any relationship between the ocean and its waves?
    Zen Arado: Hi San :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi San
    Riddle Sideways: Hi purr kitty San
    Santoshima Resident: hi
    Zen Arado: strokes San :)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Santoshima Resident: mornin'
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Cannot see San this morning, since I had to sign on with old viewer sans mesh
    Riddle Sideways: relationship = your point of view
    Zen Arado: agrees with Riddle ....what appears is in everything else
    Eliza Madrigal: POV, possible to detach from that?
    Zen Arado: yes...it's only an appearance
    Zen Arado: ?
    Riddle Sideways: sci. says observer is to be neutral, but so often is not
    Eliza Madrigal: neutral pov
    Riddle Sideways: good to strieve for
    Riddle Sideways: more kitties
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Zen Arado: oh where did mine go?
    Eliza Madrigal: swimming
    Zen Arado: cats don't sawim :)
    Zen Arado: swim
    Eliza Madrigal: my sister's cat did... funniest thing, liked to jump in the bathtub (anomoly)
    Zen Arado: amazing
    Eliza Madrigal: would intentionally walk around the slippery edges
    Eliza Madrigal: fall in and do it again and again
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Riddle Sideways: cats are amazing, they see things that we do not
    Zen Arado: The real enables the unreal to appear and causes it to disappear. the succession of transient moments creates the illusion of time, but the timeless reality of pure being is not in movement, for all movement requires a motionless background. It is itself the background.
    Riddle Sideways: or play the trick on us to make that thought
    Zen Arado: sense things anyway
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Bleu
    Zen Arado: just thinking...we define other animals by our senses
    Zen Arado: animals
    Bleu Oleander: hiya :)
    Zen Arado: Hi Bleu
    Eliza Madrigal: Morning Bleu

    Zen Arado: they may have senses we do not
    Zen Arado: and how can we comprehend their magnified senses?
    Zen Arado: like a dogs sense of smell
    Bleu Oleander: can't fully comprehend their subjective experience
    Zen Arado: or our own even
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: can simply appreciate what they're able to show, shared impressions, underlying qualities
    Zen Arado: yes and the rest our projections
    Eliza Madrigal: sea stars appear at only certain times
    Bleu Oleander: btw this was a great show on conscious and nonconsciousness
    Zen Arado: anthropomorphizing
    Bleu Oleander: http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/12025
    Zen Arado: sea stars?
    Zen Arado: thaks Bleu
    Bleu Oleander: yw!
    Bleu Oleander: found it very interesting
    Eliza Madrigal: when the light hits a lake or ocean just right and the tips twinkle
    Zen Arado: ah
    Zen Arado: like a rainbow
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks Bleu, these are great conversations
    Bleu Oleander: yes!

    Vienna artists:

    Bleu Oleander: I'm reading Kandel's new book
    Bleu Oleander: really interesting
    Eliza Madrigal: Ohhh the art book?
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Zen Arado: gosh you are a great reader Bleu
    Bleu Oleander: on unconscious in art and mind
    Zen Arado: what is the book?
    Zen Arado: kk
    Bleu Oleander: The Age of Insight
    Zen Arado: art books no good on Kindle tho
    Bleu Oleander: focuses on the Vienna artists
    Zen Arado: no color
    Bleu Oleander: right
    Bleu Oleander: downside of Kindle
    Eliza Madrigal: beautiful book visually - hard to imagine paperback or kindle offering the same experience
    Zen Arado: yeh
    Bleu Oleander: the hardcover is beautiful
    Eliza Madrigal: better to go fondle in the bookstore :)
    Bleu Oleander: haha
    Zen Arado: Vienna artists...who were they?
    Bleu Oleander: if you can find a bookstore :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, sigh
    Bleu Oleander: Klimt, Schiele, Kokoschka
    Zen Arado: ah
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: I'm trying to paint like Klee atm
    Bleu Oleander: fabulous insights into how we react to art
    Bleu Oleander: nonconscious processing
    Bleu Oleander: I love Klee's work
    Zen Arado: a friend told me to buy a Klee book but it's long out of print
    Bleu Oleander: yes, I tried once to get a book on Klee
    Zen Arado: he thinks my painting is a bit like Klee style
    Bleu Oleander: found one at the Neue Gallerie in NYC
    Zen Arado: something about the thinking artist
    Zen Arado: this guy was an srt lecturer
    Zen Arado: art
    Eliza Madrigal: I somehow remember doug talking about pema wearing a paul klee tshirt at the california retreat years ago (what an odd memory)
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Zen Arado: you'll have to get white socks San :)
    Zen Arado: prefer cats with white socks :)
    Bleu Oleander: oh San HI ... didn't see you there :)
    Santoshima Resident: :)
    Santoshima Resident: shorter
    Bleu Oleander: hiding in plain site
    Zen Arado: black cat in a black cellar?
    Zen Arado: :)
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: or white cat in blazing sun, as Eos says
    Zen Arado: white cat in snow ;)
    Eliza Madrigal: nicer image :)
    Bleu Oleander: cooler
    Santoshima Resident: what's the Klee book, Zen?
    Santoshima Resident: title?
    Zen Arado: forget the name San
    Zen Arado: I found another on Amazon and could look at nearly all the paintings in the preview
    Santoshima Resident: great
    Zen Arado: another Klee book
    Bleu Oleander: many on amazon
    Zen Arado: so that's all I needed really
    Zen Arado: just ideas
    Zen Arado: don't want to copy him
    Zen Arado: but is anything really original
    Zen Arado: ?

    Santoshima Resident: right, springboard thoughts
    Bleu Oleander: I have a beautiful Phaidon book on Klee by D. Hall
    Bleu Oleander: http://www.neuegalerie.org/shops/Book%20Store
    Bleu Oleander: they have a great bookstore in NYC
    Bleu Oleander: beautiful museum
    Bleu Oleander: saw Klimt's Adele Bloch-Bauer there
    Eliza Madrigal: ah
    Bleu Oleander: they paid over 135 million for it I think
    Bleu Oleander: quite something to see
    Zen Arado: only painting of his I remember is 'The Kiss'
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Zen Arado: his most famous I guess?
    Bleu Oleander: I actually like his landscapes the best
    Eliza Madrigal: a few at MOMA
    Zen Arado: http://bit.ly/RgUN5e
    Eliza Madrigal: lingered there quite a while... drawn to them. sometimes when images are referenced too often one thinks they've seen them
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Zen Arado: must try gold leaf :)
    Zen Arado: wonder how expensive
    Bleu Oleander: http://www.dickblick.com/categories/goldleaf/
    Zen Arado: you are so lucky to be able to go and see paintings like these
    Bleu Oleander: great online art supply co
    Zen Arado: ty Bleu
    Zen Arado: I feel drawn to gold
    Bleu Oleander: yw I've ordered a lot from them
    Bleu Oleander: I have a friend who uses gold leaf a lot in her work
    Zen Arado: don't think they are in UK but see the possiblity
    Bleu Oleander: nice effects
    Bleu Oleander: you can get an idea of the prices
    Zen Arado: could add to abstracts
    Zen Arado: yes
    Bleu Oleander: can be beautiful
    Zen Arado: postage expensive here
    Zen Arado: oh we were considering Nisargadatta
    Zen Arado: I'll post complete quote
    Eliza Madrigal: pure and particular being
    Eliza Madrigal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUjFpdxFWHU

    Nisargadatta again:

    Zen Arado: Q: Is there any relationship between pure being and particular being? M: What relationship can there be between what is and what merely appears to be? Is there any relationship between the ocean and its waves? The real enables the unreal to appear and causes it to disappear. the succession of transient moments creates the illusion of time, but the timeless reality of pure being is not in movement, for all movement requires a motionless background. It is itself the background. Once you have found it in yourself, you know that you had never lost that independent being, independent of all divisions and separations. But don't look for it in consciousness, you will not find it there. Don't look for it anywhere, for nothing contains it. On the contrary, it contains everything and manifests everything. It is like the daylight that makes everything visible while itself remaining invisible

    Zen Arado: ty Eliza
    Zen Arado: isn't that a good description of ....everything?
    Zen Arado: did Paul Klee make you think of Paul MaCartney?
    Eliza Madrigal: beautiful quote really.... 'you will not find it there...' so what is the compulsion to look :)
    Eliza Madrigal: A wave does not have to stop being a wave in order to be water. --Thich Nhat Hanh (from a site you pointed to yesterday Zen)
    Zen Arado: yes...you don't need to look
    Eliza Madrigal: lots of Pauls - Paul K Chappell is newest interesting Paul on the scene
    Bleu Oleander: who is he?
    Santoshima Resident: what scene?
    Eliza Madrigal: http://www.paulkchappell.com/

    Bleu Oleander: ty Eliza :)
    Santoshima Resident: sweet singing mr mccartney, ty, eliza ~
    Eliza Madrigal: just things coming up on the screen of my consciousness... film tape
    Eliza Madrigal: yw... sets a nice tone :)
    Eliza Madrigal: do you paint to music Zen?
    Zen Arado: used to
    Zen Arado: classical FM station
    Zen Arado: but not now
    Eliza Madrigal: difference?
    Zen Arado: don't know
    Riddle Sideways: bye all and thank you for lots of links
    Zen Arado: just didn't want to any more
    Bleu Oleander: take care Riddle
    Zen Arado: byee Riddle
    Eliza Madrigal waves Riddle :)
    Santoshima Resident: bye riddle
    Zen Arado: get tired of same music
    Zen Arado: too much talking with music
    Zen Arado: if I played my own would have to select and keep thinking of what to play next
    Eliza Madrigal: so would interrupt your immersion?
    Zen Arado: actually I mostly listen to tak on radio not music
    Bleu Oleander: beautiful art installation
    Bleu Oleander: with wonderful music
    Zen Arado: ,I don't think of immersion
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks for the LM Bleu
    Zen Arado: ty Bleu
    Santoshima Resident: ty
    Zen Arado: I just paint when I feel like it
    Bleu Oleander: btw, last day to see all the LEA art full sim installations
    Zen Arado: sometimes for 5 mins
    Zen Arado: I was at an artists place on Sunday...fantastic colors
    Zen Arado: but she is moving this week
    Santoshima Resident: time to bring colour to another place
    Zen Arado: a Dutch woman
    Bleu Oleander: the themed show "air" has many great pieces
    Santoshima Resident: ty
    Eliza Madrigal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS-HWIFyLsE
    Eliza Madrigal: :)

    PAB question about logging:

    Eliza Madrigal: mind if I ask a pab question?
    Zen Arado: go ahead
    Bleu Oleander: ty Eliza ... love that piece
    Eliza Madrigal: it came up yesterday... was thinking of taking a poll to see who is reading the logs and how often/many...
    Zen Arado: love Bach
    Santoshima Resident: bach rocks the world
    Zen Arado: kind of thing they played on classic FM
    Santoshima Resident: i no longer read the logs, read them before i came to pab to check it out
    Santoshima Resident: felt i had met people before meeting
    Eliza Madrigal: perhaps if we logged particular and special sessions mostly, theme sessions... more would read them ... perhaps there would be more cohesiveness, 'same page' feeling
    Santoshima Resident: saw stories and lines of continuity
    Bleu Oleander: I read the special session ones if I missed them
    Santoshima Resident: repeated themes for individuals and groups
    Zen Arado: but can't ste administrator give stats?
    Zen Arado: site
    Eliza Madrigal: did you find that vauable, San?
    Santoshima Resident: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: I think it would be more interesting to hear from everyone
    Zen Arado: yes that too
    Eliza Madrigal: and the feeling of it... even now hearing
    Eliza Madrigal: good feedback
    Zen Arado: I read very few
    Eliza Madrigal: I still read all the sessions but not as carefully as I once did
    Bleu Oleander: wow
    Bleu Oleander: not enough time in the day!
    Zen Arado: that's what I said Bleu :)
    Eliza Madrigal: it replaced my morning papers for a while :)
    Bleu Oleander: big stack of books to get through
    Santoshima Resident: sometimes i will read, if i feel that i missed something in the conversation, or want to find a link
    Bleu Oleander: yes, me too San
    Santoshima Resident: mostly though, i save the text to hd and check it there rather than the wiki
    Eliza Madrigal: now there are a few sessions I speed read through, but hm... am wondering about it too, because I'm posting more sessions from the auto-listener
    Eliza Madrigal: that's one reason/way I read so many sessions :)
    Zen Arado: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOA-2hl1Vbc
    Eliza Madrigal: guess the underlying question is one of value to everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: would like to have a better sense
    Eliza Madrigal: ty Zen
    Bleu Oleander: ty Zen

    Santoshima Resident: value is some sense of presence, a chance to re-evaluate at a different pace, some inkling of belonging to a larger "whole"
    Bleu Oleander: take care all ... thanks for all the links!
    Eliza Madrigal: tc Bleu :))
    Santoshima Resident: please escuse me, i need to go
    Zen Arado: byee Bleu
    Zen Arado: ty for coming
    Eliza Madrigal: bye San, tc
    Bleu Oleander: bye bye
    Santoshima Resident: bye bleu, eliza, zen
    Santoshima Resident: love to you all
    Zen Arado: better sense of what Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: "so long and thanks for all the links" haha...
    Zen Arado: byee San
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd like a real sense of whether the group is communicating across layers or maybe I'm stuck in a tunnel
    Eliza Madrigal: the value of the logs to the group
    Zen Arado: cat is looking for San
    Eliza Madrigal: aw :)

    A visitor arrived who did not want name recorded:

    Eliza Madrigal: and Zen Arado: Hi Visitor
    Eliza Madrigal: I wonder if we were recording fewer sessions if we might be more on the same page as a group
    Eliza Madrigal: we could still keep meetings open 4 times a day
    Eliza Madrigal: and those who wished to could log
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Visitor
    Zen Arado: yeh would be more special then
    Eliza Madrigal: it might... not sure
    Zen Arado: have you been here before Visitor?
    Visitor: Hi zen
    Visitor: No.. This is my first time
    Visitor: what are you recoring?
    Zen Arado: hwat we say is recorded and put on a Wiki...are you ok with that?
    Visitor: er.. which wiki?
    Zen Arado: it's on the notecard I just gave you
    Eliza Madrigal: playasbeing.org
    Eliza Madrigal: we've recorded over 4 years of 4 sessions a day
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: actually we were just discussing that
    Visitor: hmm
    Visitor: but dont use my name
    Visitor: Im above 18
    Visitor: 7 yrs above 18
    Zen Arado: hmmm ok
    Visitor: so i think i can take part
    Visitor: what kind of info is discussed here>
    Zen Arado: varies Visitor
    Eliza Madrigal: this morning we started with pure being
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: spiritual things
    Zen Arado: life in general
    Visitor: anybody from india?
    Zen Arado: or sometimes just chat and fun
    Eliza Madrigal: not atm
    Visitor: im ok for anything
    Eliza Madrigal: do you have particular interests in SL Visitor?
    Eliza Madrigal: jazz?
    Zen Arado: he he
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Visitor: hmm .. i just roam here
    Visitor: i am not regular
    Visitor: This is name of character played by my fav hero
    Zen Arado: ah
    Eliza Madrigal: why do you like the character?
    Visitor: He runs school where kids do science rather than read
    Zen Arado: sounds Russian or Polish
    Visitor: The story of film goes with his past.. how he is ridiculed for his practical application of science in college in India
    Eliza Madrigal: interesting!
    Eliza Madrigal: what sorts of practical application?
    Visitor: Here,people fight for marks and high salaries
    Visitor: in such a place,he remains cool and understands and implements real science
    Zen Arado: 'real' science?
    Visitor: the name is tibetan.. that guy is grown up by tibetan in south india
    Zen Arado: ah ok
    Eliza Madrigal: fascinating
    Visitor: i meant practical science
    Zen Arado: hard distinction to make?
    Visitor: for example,in one scene,that character uses spoon tied to eletric wire to ward off senior guy who bullies him by urinating on his room
    Zen Arado: sometimes practical appears 50 years later
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, I see
    Zen Arado: :)
    Visitor: i mean.. its an offbeat film here
    Zen Arado: painful :)

    Visitor: if u watch hindi movies,it is 3 idiots
    Visitor: that was remade as nanban
    Eliza Madrigal: this group started out by exploring a practical and novel meditation each quarter of an hour.... that's what we just paused for
    Zen Arado: I have to go..we have been here 1 1/2 hours
    Eliza Madrigal: bye Zen, thanks :)
    Zen Arado: thanks for coming :)
    Zen Arado: byee
    Eliza Madrigal: at the website you'll see that we intended to see 'what if anything would happen' if we, for 9 seconds ever 15 minutes, simply paused
    Eliza Madrigal: then it developed here in sessions to 90 seconds
    Eliza Madrigal: we took a scientific approach of comparing notes about our individual experiences with it throughout our days and also here
    Visitor: what are you going to do with all that?
    Eliza Madrigal: then the group grew into many other dynamic layers :)
    Eliza Madrigal: it is a good question
    Eliza Madrigal: well there is individual level of things - how it has benefitted those who've practiced, or at least all the data suggests such :)
    Eliza Madrigal: then there is the group level of things - there is a nice continuity and creativity about the group
    Eliza Madrigal: and I wonder if that is in part due to the pauses ... woven throughout discussion
    Eliza Madrigal: main thing is to cultivate curiosity
    Visitor: still i could not get
    Visitor: more like sharing things
    Visitor: ?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, sharing is a big part
    Eliza Madrigal: one phrase that comes up a lot here in 'drop what you have to see what you are' ... it really just means in a way, hm, a bit like your hero, don't chase after the measurements
    Eliza Madrigal: *is
    Visitor: ok.. this might sound funny.. why do u share it in website?
    Visitor: people might not drop their real self,if u share openly right?
    Eliza Madrigal: well the thinking was that even people who were not in SL would want to take part
    Eliza Madrigal: and people not in SL very much
    Eliza Madrigal: or traveling, or who wanted to learn from the explorations without being part of a 'group' directly
    Eliza Madrigal: many reasons which sometimes we question too
    Visitor: hmm..
    Eliza Madrigal: revisit, see if they are still applicable
    Visitor: maybe i will get used to this once i frequent
    Eliza Madrigal: we're here every 6 hrs...
    Eliza Madrigal: or someone usually is :) wide range of types of sessions
    Eliza Madrigal: at 1pm we'll talk a bit about the book "Ignorance" I think
    Visitor: hmm ok
    Eliza Madrigal: I have to go also, but it was nice to meet you and please ask if you have questions
     

    Tag page (Edit tags)
    • No tags
    You must login to post a comment.
    Powered by MindTouch Core