The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado.

We were at Kira Cafe due to region being down but it came back early today:

Zen Arado: over to the right looks ...down
Zen Arado: don't remember seeing ocean there before
Zen Arado: it's pouring rain here
Zen Arado: in RL
Eliza Madrigal: nice
Zen Arado: hmmm
Eliza Madrigal: it has been pouring for days and days here but today is very bright and sunny
Zen Arado: didn't think it rained for long perods in Florida
Eliza Madrigal: oh yes... especially in Summer.... one year it rained , no, stormed, every day in July
Zen Arado: but not all day?
Zen Arado: Hi Riddle :)
Eliza Madrigal: our pattern is to have storms beginning around 3 pm for a few hours
Zen Arado: yes...Sydney was like that
Eliza Madrigal: the day heats heats heats , gets sweaty, then showers
Zen Arado: but short showers
Riddle Sideways: Hi Zen,Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Riddle :)
Zen Arado: here it can be steady all day
Zen Arado: but not heavy
Riddle Sideways: ah remembering rain in Florida
Riddle Sideways: 3:10 north side of street
Riddle Sideways: 3:43 south side
Eliza Madrigal: haha.... yes sometimes you can see the showers... moving around... similar to the Ziggy cartoons
Riddle Sideways: :)
Zen Arado: is there a theme or topic this week?
Zen Arado: I forget
Eliza Madrigal: "ignorance"
Riddle Sideways: ignorant of it
Zen Arado: ah but that's theme for bookclub tonight?
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) overlapping
Zen Arado: there won't be anything left to say
Eliza Madrigal: we can of course pretend not to know the topic and discuss anything at all :)

I introduced a Nisargaddata quote:

Zen Arado: I was just reading Maharaj
Zen Arado: (Nisargadatta)
Zen Arado: Q: Is there any relationship between pure being and particular being?

Riddle Sideways hits buzzer and ignorantly answers that the some is always a part of all
Zen Arado: just right of us is down still
Riddle Sideways: yep, sim neighbor gone
Zen Arado: (wondered about seeing the ocean)
Zen Arado: this bit just came back Riddle
Eliza Madrigal: this bit an expression of the whole
Zen Arado: hah
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: blinking in and out of sight
Zen Arado: could also call it the relative and absolute?
Eliza Madrigal: yes ... it is so odd in language though, because someone might say 'absolute' is without dualities but relative/absolute is a duality...
Zen Arado: or it is and it isn't
Riddle Sideways: :)
Zen Arado: M: What relationship can there be between what is and what merely appears to be? Is there any relationship between the ocean and its waves?
Zen Arado: Hi San :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi San
Riddle Sideways: Hi purr kitty San
Santoshima Resident: hi
Zen Arado: strokes San :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Santoshima Resident: mornin'
Eliza Madrigal: :) Cannot see San this morning, since I had to sign on with old viewer sans mesh
Riddle Sideways: relationship = your point of view
Zen Arado: agrees with Riddle ....what appears is in everything else
Eliza Madrigal: POV, possible to detach from that?
Zen Arado: yes...it's only an appearance
Zen Arado: ?
Riddle Sideways: sci. says observer is to be neutral, but so often is not
Eliza Madrigal: neutral pov
Riddle Sideways: good to strieve for
Riddle Sideways: more kitties
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Zen Arado: oh where did mine go?
Eliza Madrigal: swimming
Zen Arado: cats don't sawim :)
Zen Arado: swim
Eliza Madrigal: my sister's cat did... funniest thing, liked to jump in the bathtub (anomoly)
Zen Arado: amazing
Eliza Madrigal: would intentionally walk around the slippery edges
Eliza Madrigal: fall in and do it again and again
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Riddle Sideways: cats are amazing, they see things that we do not
Zen Arado: The real enables the unreal to appear and causes it to disappear. the succession of transient moments creates the illusion of time, but the timeless reality of pure being is not in movement, for all movement requires a motionless background. It is itself the background.
Riddle Sideways: or play the trick on us to make that thought
Zen Arado: sense things anyway
Riddle Sideways: Hi Bleu
Zen Arado: just thinking...we define other animals by our senses
Zen Arado: animals
Bleu Oleander: hiya :)
Zen Arado: Hi Bleu
Eliza Madrigal: Morning Bleu

Zen Arado: they may have senses we do not
Zen Arado: and how can we comprehend their magnified senses?
Zen Arado: like a dogs sense of smell
Bleu Oleander: can't fully comprehend their subjective experience
Zen Arado: or our own even
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: can simply appreciate what they're able to show, shared impressions, underlying qualities
Zen Arado: yes and the rest our projections
Eliza Madrigal: sea stars appear at only certain times
Bleu Oleander: btw this was a great show on conscious and nonconsciousness
Zen Arado: anthropomorphizing
Bleu Oleander: http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/12025
Zen Arado: sea stars?
Zen Arado: thaks Bleu
Bleu Oleander: yw!
Bleu Oleander: found it very interesting
Eliza Madrigal: when the light hits a lake or ocean just right and the tips twinkle
Zen Arado: ah
Zen Arado: like a rainbow
Eliza Madrigal: thanks Bleu, these are great conversations
Bleu Oleander: yes!

Vienna artists:

Bleu Oleander: I'm reading Kandel's new book
Bleu Oleander: really interesting
Eliza Madrigal: Ohhh the art book?
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zen Arado: gosh you are a great reader Bleu
Bleu Oleander: on unconscious in art and mind
Zen Arado: what is the book?
Zen Arado: kk
Bleu Oleander: The Age of Insight
Zen Arado: art books no good on Kindle tho
Bleu Oleander: focuses on the Vienna artists
Zen Arado: no color
Bleu Oleander: right
Bleu Oleander: downside of Kindle
Eliza Madrigal: beautiful book visually - hard to imagine paperback or kindle offering the same experience
Zen Arado: yeh
Bleu Oleander: the hardcover is beautiful
Eliza Madrigal: better to go fondle in the bookstore :)
Bleu Oleander: haha
Zen Arado: Vienna artists...who were they?
Bleu Oleander: if you can find a bookstore :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes, sigh
Bleu Oleander: Klimt, Schiele, Kokoschka
Zen Arado: ah
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: I'm trying to paint like Klee atm
Bleu Oleander: fabulous insights into how we react to art
Bleu Oleander: nonconscious processing
Bleu Oleander: I love Klee's work
Zen Arado: a friend told me to buy a Klee book but it's long out of print
Bleu Oleander: yes, I tried once to get a book on Klee
Zen Arado: he thinks my painting is a bit like Klee style
Bleu Oleander: found one at the Neue Gallerie in NYC
Zen Arado: something about the thinking artist
Zen Arado: this guy was an srt lecturer
Zen Arado: art
Eliza Madrigal: I somehow remember doug talking about pema wearing a paul klee tshirt at the california retreat years ago (what an odd memory)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Zen Arado: you'll have to get white socks San :)
Zen Arado: prefer cats with white socks :)
Bleu Oleander: oh San HI ... didn't see you there :)
Santoshima Resident: :)
Santoshima Resident: shorter
Bleu Oleander: hiding in plain site
Zen Arado: black cat in a black cellar?
Zen Arado: :)
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: or white cat in blazing sun, as Eos says
Zen Arado: white cat in snow ;)
Eliza Madrigal: nicer image :)
Bleu Oleander: cooler
Santoshima Resident: what's the Klee book, Zen?
Santoshima Resident: title?
Zen Arado: forget the name San
Zen Arado: I found another on Amazon and could look at nearly all the paintings in the preview
Santoshima Resident: great
Zen Arado: another Klee book
Bleu Oleander: many on amazon
Zen Arado: so that's all I needed really
Zen Arado: just ideas
Zen Arado: don't want to copy him
Zen Arado: but is anything really original
Zen Arado: ?

Santoshima Resident: right, springboard thoughts
Bleu Oleander: I have a beautiful Phaidon book on Klee by D. Hall
Bleu Oleander: http://www.neuegalerie.org/shops/Book%20Store
Bleu Oleander: they have a great bookstore in NYC
Bleu Oleander: beautiful museum
Bleu Oleander: saw Klimt's Adele Bloch-Bauer there
Eliza Madrigal: ah
Bleu Oleander: they paid over 135 million for it I think
Bleu Oleander: quite something to see
Zen Arado: only painting of his I remember is 'The Kiss'
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zen Arado: his most famous I guess?
Bleu Oleander: I actually like his landscapes the best
Eliza Madrigal: a few at MOMA
Zen Arado: http://bit.ly/RgUN5e
Eliza Madrigal: lingered there quite a while... drawn to them. sometimes when images are referenced too often one thinks they've seen them
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zen Arado: must try gold leaf :)
Zen Arado: wonder how expensive
Bleu Oleander: http://www.dickblick.com/categories/goldleaf/
Zen Arado: you are so lucky to be able to go and see paintings like these
Bleu Oleander: great online art supply co
Zen Arado: ty Bleu
Zen Arado: I feel drawn to gold
Bleu Oleander: yw I've ordered a lot from them
Bleu Oleander: I have a friend who uses gold leaf a lot in her work
Zen Arado: don't think they are in UK but see the possiblity
Bleu Oleander: nice effects
Bleu Oleander: you can get an idea of the prices
Zen Arado: could add to abstracts
Zen Arado: yes
Bleu Oleander: can be beautiful
Zen Arado: postage expensive here
Zen Arado: oh we were considering Nisargadatta
Zen Arado: I'll post complete quote
Eliza Madrigal: pure and particular being
Eliza Madrigal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUjFpdxFWHU

Nisargadatta again:

Zen Arado: Q: Is there any relationship between pure being and particular being? M: What relationship can there be between what is and what merely appears to be? Is there any relationship between the ocean and its waves? The real enables the unreal to appear and causes it to disappear. the succession of transient moments creates the illusion of time, but the timeless reality of pure being is not in movement, for all movement requires a motionless background. It is itself the background. Once you have found it in yourself, you know that you had never lost that independent being, independent of all divisions and separations. But don't look for it in consciousness, you will not find it there. Don't look for it anywhere, for nothing contains it. On the contrary, it contains everything and manifests everything. It is like the daylight that makes everything visible while itself remaining invisible

Zen Arado: ty Eliza
Zen Arado: isn't that a good description of ....everything?
Zen Arado: did Paul Klee make you think of Paul MaCartney?
Eliza Madrigal: beautiful quote really.... 'you will not find it there...' so what is the compulsion to look :)
Eliza Madrigal: A wave does not have to stop being a wave in order to be water. --Thich Nhat Hanh (from a site you pointed to yesterday Zen)
Zen Arado: yes...you don't need to look
Eliza Madrigal: lots of Pauls - Paul K Chappell is newest interesting Paul on the scene
Bleu Oleander: who is he?
Santoshima Resident: what scene?
Eliza Madrigal: http://www.paulkchappell.com/

Bleu Oleander: ty Eliza :)
Santoshima Resident: sweet singing mr mccartney, ty, eliza ~
Eliza Madrigal: just things coming up on the screen of my consciousness... film tape
Eliza Madrigal: yw... sets a nice tone :)
Eliza Madrigal: do you paint to music Zen?
Zen Arado: used to
Zen Arado: classical FM station
Zen Arado: but not now
Eliza Madrigal: difference?
Zen Arado: don't know
Riddle Sideways: bye all and thank you for lots of links
Zen Arado: just didn't want to any more
Bleu Oleander: take care Riddle
Zen Arado: byee Riddle
Eliza Madrigal waves Riddle :)
Santoshima Resident: bye riddle
Zen Arado: get tired of same music
Zen Arado: too much talking with music
Zen Arado: if I played my own would have to select and keep thinking of what to play next
Eliza Madrigal: so would interrupt your immersion?
Zen Arado: actually I mostly listen to tak on radio not music
Bleu Oleander: beautiful art installation
Bleu Oleander: with wonderful music
Zen Arado: ,I don't think of immersion
Eliza Madrigal: thanks for the LM Bleu
Zen Arado: ty Bleu
Santoshima Resident: ty
Zen Arado: I just paint when I feel like it
Bleu Oleander: btw, last day to see all the LEA art full sim installations
Zen Arado: sometimes for 5 mins
Zen Arado: I was at an artists place on Sunday...fantastic colors
Zen Arado: but she is moving this week
Santoshima Resident: time to bring colour to another place
Zen Arado: a Dutch woman
Bleu Oleander: the themed show "air" has many great pieces
Santoshima Resident: ty
Eliza Madrigal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS-HWIFyLsE
Eliza Madrigal: :)

PAB question about logging:

Eliza Madrigal: mind if I ask a pab question?
Zen Arado: go ahead
Bleu Oleander: ty Eliza ... love that piece
Eliza Madrigal: it came up yesterday... was thinking of taking a poll to see who is reading the logs and how often/many...
Zen Arado: love Bach
Santoshima Resident: bach rocks the world
Zen Arado: kind of thing they played on classic FM
Santoshima Resident: i no longer read the logs, read them before i came to pab to check it out
Santoshima Resident: felt i had met people before meeting
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps if we logged particular and special sessions mostly, theme sessions... more would read them ... perhaps there would be more cohesiveness, 'same page' feeling
Santoshima Resident: saw stories and lines of continuity
Bleu Oleander: I read the special session ones if I missed them
Santoshima Resident: repeated themes for individuals and groups
Zen Arado: but can't ste administrator give stats?
Zen Arado: site
Eliza Madrigal: did you find that vauable, San?
Santoshima Resident: yes
Eliza Madrigal: I think it would be more interesting to hear from everyone
Zen Arado: yes that too
Eliza Madrigal: and the feeling of it... even now hearing
Eliza Madrigal: good feedback
Zen Arado: I read very few
Eliza Madrigal: I still read all the sessions but not as carefully as I once did
Bleu Oleander: wow
Bleu Oleander: not enough time in the day!
Zen Arado: that's what I said Bleu :)
Eliza Madrigal: it replaced my morning papers for a while :)
Bleu Oleander: big stack of books to get through
Santoshima Resident: sometimes i will read, if i feel that i missed something in the conversation, or want to find a link
Bleu Oleander: yes, me too San
Santoshima Resident: mostly though, i save the text to hd and check it there rather than the wiki
Eliza Madrigal: now there are a few sessions I speed read through, but hm... am wondering about it too, because I'm posting more sessions from the auto-listener
Eliza Madrigal: that's one reason/way I read so many sessions :)
Zen Arado: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOA-2hl1Vbc
Eliza Madrigal: guess the underlying question is one of value to everyone
Eliza Madrigal: would like to have a better sense
Eliza Madrigal: ty Zen
Bleu Oleander: ty Zen

Santoshima Resident: value is some sense of presence, a chance to re-evaluate at a different pace, some inkling of belonging to a larger "whole"
Bleu Oleander: take care all ... thanks for all the links!
Eliza Madrigal: tc Bleu :))
Santoshima Resident: please escuse me, i need to go
Zen Arado: byee Bleu
Zen Arado: ty for coming
Eliza Madrigal: bye San, tc
Bleu Oleander: bye bye
Santoshima Resident: bye bleu, eliza, zen
Santoshima Resident: love to you all
Zen Arado: better sense of what Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: "so long and thanks for all the links" haha...
Zen Arado: byee San
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I'd like a real sense of whether the group is communicating across layers or maybe I'm stuck in a tunnel
Eliza Madrigal: the value of the logs to the group
Zen Arado: cat is looking for San
Eliza Madrigal: aw :)

A visitor arrived who did not want name recorded:

Eliza Madrigal: and Zen Arado: Hi Visitor
Eliza Madrigal: I wonder if we were recording fewer sessions if we might be more on the same page as a group
Eliza Madrigal: we could still keep meetings open 4 times a day
Eliza Madrigal: and those who wished to could log
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Visitor
Zen Arado: yeh would be more special then
Eliza Madrigal: it might... not sure
Zen Arado: have you been here before Visitor?
Visitor: Hi zen
Visitor: No.. This is my first time
Visitor: what are you recoring?
Zen Arado: hwat we say is recorded and put on a Wiki...are you ok with that?
Visitor: er.. which wiki?
Zen Arado: it's on the notecard I just gave you
Eliza Madrigal: playasbeing.org
Eliza Madrigal: we've recorded over 4 years of 4 sessions a day
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: actually we were just discussing that
Visitor: hmm
Visitor: but dont use my name
Visitor: Im above 18
Visitor: 7 yrs above 18
Zen Arado: hmmm ok
Visitor: so i think i can take part
Visitor: what kind of info is discussed here>
Zen Arado: varies Visitor
Eliza Madrigal: this morning we started with pure being
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: spiritual things
Zen Arado: life in general
Visitor: anybody from india?
Zen Arado: or sometimes just chat and fun
Eliza Madrigal: not atm
Visitor: im ok for anything
Eliza Madrigal: do you have particular interests in SL Visitor?
Eliza Madrigal: jazz?
Zen Arado: he he
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Visitor: hmm .. i just roam here
Visitor: i am not regular
Visitor: This is name of character played by my fav hero
Zen Arado: ah
Eliza Madrigal: why do you like the character?
Visitor: He runs school where kids do science rather than read
Zen Arado: sounds Russian or Polish
Visitor: The story of film goes with his past.. how he is ridiculed for his practical application of science in college in India
Eliza Madrigal: interesting!
Eliza Madrigal: what sorts of practical application?
Visitor: Here,people fight for marks and high salaries
Visitor: in such a place,he remains cool and understands and implements real science
Zen Arado: 'real' science?
Visitor: the name is tibetan.. that guy is grown up by tibetan in south india
Zen Arado: ah ok
Eliza Madrigal: fascinating
Visitor: i meant practical science
Zen Arado: hard distinction to make?
Visitor: for example,in one scene,that character uses spoon tied to eletric wire to ward off senior guy who bullies him by urinating on his room
Zen Arado: sometimes practical appears 50 years later
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, I see
Zen Arado: :)
Visitor: i mean.. its an offbeat film here
Zen Arado: painful :)

Visitor: if u watch hindi movies,it is 3 idiots
Visitor: that was remade as nanban
Eliza Madrigal: this group started out by exploring a practical and novel meditation each quarter of an hour.... that's what we just paused for
Zen Arado: I have to go..we have been here 1 1/2 hours
Eliza Madrigal: bye Zen, thanks :)
Zen Arado: thanks for coming :)
Zen Arado: byee
Eliza Madrigal: at the website you'll see that we intended to see 'what if anything would happen' if we, for 9 seconds ever 15 minutes, simply paused
Eliza Madrigal: then it developed here in sessions to 90 seconds
Eliza Madrigal: we took a scientific approach of comparing notes about our individual experiences with it throughout our days and also here
Visitor: what are you going to do with all that?
Eliza Madrigal: then the group grew into many other dynamic layers :)
Eliza Madrigal: it is a good question
Eliza Madrigal: well there is individual level of things - how it has benefitted those who've practiced, or at least all the data suggests such :)
Eliza Madrigal: then there is the group level of things - there is a nice continuity and creativity about the group
Eliza Madrigal: and I wonder if that is in part due to the pauses ... woven throughout discussion
Eliza Madrigal: main thing is to cultivate curiosity
Visitor: still i could not get
Visitor: more like sharing things
Visitor: ?
Eliza Madrigal: yes, sharing is a big part
Eliza Madrigal: one phrase that comes up a lot here in 'drop what you have to see what you are' ... it really just means in a way, hm, a bit like your hero, don't chase after the measurements
Eliza Madrigal: *is
Visitor: ok.. this might sound funny.. why do u share it in website?
Visitor: people might not drop their real self,if u share openly right?
Eliza Madrigal: well the thinking was that even people who were not in SL would want to take part
Eliza Madrigal: and people not in SL very much
Eliza Madrigal: or traveling, or who wanted to learn from the explorations without being part of a 'group' directly
Eliza Madrigal: many reasons which sometimes we question too
Visitor: hmm..
Eliza Madrigal: revisit, see if they are still applicable
Visitor: maybe i will get used to this once i frequent
Eliza Madrigal: we're here every 6 hrs...
Eliza Madrigal: or someone usually is :) wide range of types of sessions
Eliza Madrigal: at 1pm we'll talk a bit about the book "Ignorance" I think
Visitor: hmm ok
Eliza Madrigal: I have to go also, but it was nice to meet you and please ask if you have questions