The Guardian for this meeting was Agatha Macbeth. The comments are by Agatha Macbeth.

Agatha Macbeth: Hello K, sera QT
  --BELL--1300
Qt Core: Hi Korel, Agatha
Agatha Macbeth: Warm today?
Qt Core: end humid too we got a little rain tonight, not enough to cool things up but enough to mud them ;-)
Korel Laloix: It is a lovely 95 here to day with a nice breaze and low humidity.
Agatha Macbeth: Oh dear
Qt Core: on your side of the planet >
Qt Core: ?
Qt Core: breaze, wjat is that ;-)
Agatha Macbeth: I'm warm enough thanks :)
Agatha Macbeth: beats being cold
Agatha Macbeth: Hello San
Wol Euler: evening all
Santoshima Resident: hullo
Agatha Macbeth: and Wol
Qt Core: Hi San, Wol
Agatha Macbeth: How are we?
Wol Euler: pretty well thanks, and us?
Agatha Macbeth: I'm good
Korel Laloix: Going though the last of my professors papers for my final tomorrow.
Wol Euler: oh yes, good luck on that :)
Agatha Macbeth: Good luck!
Santoshima Resident: thought you were done with exams for the summer, Korel
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe they found her some more
Santoshima Resident: good luck, dear
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
Santoshima Resident: brb, making coffee

Topics?
Agatha Macbeth: Hmm, are we supposed to be talking about something, and if so what? :p
Wol Euler: dunno, sorry
Wol Euler: there probably is a theme
Korel Laloix: TOmorow... my one and only for the summer term.
Agatha Macbeth: Don't have a clue what it is then
Agatha Macbeth: You are the one and only...
Agatha Macbeth: Who sung that?
Korel Laloix: Adele
Wol Euler: can it be that the official theme idea has been abandoned?
Korel Laloix: Whoever that is.
Agatha Macbeth: Ah, thx
Wol Euler: there doesn't seem ot be one
Agatha Macbeth: Dunno Wol
Agatha Macbeth: Or did Aph suggest one?
Wol Euler: I don't see any such mail
Agatha Macbeth: Ah well
Wol Euler: there was something I wanted to talk about with Aph, but she isn't here.

More of this later....
Korel Laloix: I do like the official theme thing though.. it seemed to get the chants going in a good direction.
Korel Laloix: You can tell us Wol...
Agatha Macbeth: We do chanting?
Wol Euler: sometime fairly recently she said something odd about work, what it was or should not be
Korel Laloix: I like odd.
Agatha Macbeth waves
Wol Euler: wotcher mick
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Mickster
Qt Core: hi Mick
Agatha Macbeth: How's Rupert?
Mickorod Renard: hi Filks
Mickorod Renard: folks
Korel Laloix: Heya
Mickorod Renard: I havnt seen him in ages
Santoshima Resident: :8
Agatha Macbeth: The filks wave back
Mickorod Renard: like QT
Santoshima Resident: *
Mickorod Renard: howz qt?
Wol Euler: so, this is from https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2012/08/2012.08.19_13:00_-_Rules_for_Building_a_Table
Qt Core: surviving summer leave (almost finished) you Mick ?
Santoshima Resident: the comment about work, was in reference to the 10 point list from Sister ___ (name forgot by me), and John Cage
Agatha Macbeth: Ah
  --BELL--1315
Santoshima Resident: in answer to wol
Mickorod Renard: yea, I am the same, I only have one more week left,,then back to school
Wol Euler: "filks"?
Wol Euler: ah, nvm
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe JC should stick to music
Mickorod Renard: sorry I spilt into the 90 seconds

The Work debate
Wol Euler: so: we said:
Wol Euler: Aphrodite Macbain: Wol for me - work is something that is a responsibility and a bit of a burden Wol Euler: we should talk about that then some day, aph Wol Euler: because to me work is potentially anything that isn't sleep Wol Euler: just as play is the same
Wol Euler: we had been talking about RULE SEVEN: The only rule is work. If you work it will lead to something. It’s the people who do all of the work all of the time who eventually catch on to things.
Wol Euler: and the word "work" in connection with something she wanted to do, seemed to upset Aph
Qt Core: but often not the ones catching the rewards ;-)
Agatha Macbeth: Guess only she would know
Wol Euler: to me "work" in this context means only "get up off your lazy ass and do something"
Mickorod Renard: I am seeing work as play at the moment, but the issue for me is that if I dont want to go to work for some reason I do feel obliged to go, like a responsibility,,,that makes it a bit diferent to play
Wol Euler: the thing that you do in this moment might be skateboarding, or feeding pigeons in the park
Wol Euler: whatever, but you must DO it not just think about it

As an aside, this makes me think of the Four Worlds in the Qabalah: AZILUTH-BRIAH-YETZIRAH-ASSIAH.  In the beginning is the will to do something (Aziluth), secondly comes the creative visualisation of what that something should be (Briah), third the something is made (Yetzirah), finally the newly made thing is shown to the world (Assiah).

Agatha Macbeth: What about wu wei?
Agatha Macbeth: Ara babe :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Ara
arabella Ella: Hallo everyone!
Qt Core: Hi Ara
Wol Euler: wu wei doesn't mean that you stay in bed all day :)
Wol Euler: hello ara
Agatha Macbeth: Well who stays in bed all day?
Qt Core: a bed tester ?
Wol Euler: if what the moment wishes to bring forth is that you go skateboarding, then wu wei means that you let skateboarding happen
arabella Ella: Hey Qt come stai?
Qt Core: (sopravvivo all'estate, tu?)
Mickorod Renard: I always wondered what wu wei meant
arabella Ella: abbastanza bene grazie dopo una vacanza e dopo aver fatto il bagno nel mare oggi
Wol Euler: literally "do without doing"
Wol Euler: let happen
Agatha Macbeth: Especially on a skateboard
Wol Euler: exactly
Agatha Macbeth: Mama mia
Wol Euler: what it less literally means is to identify and do the Right Thing
Wol Euler: buddhist Right Action
Santoshima Resident: tao
Wol Euler: of the Taoist idea of what the Moment requires
Wol Euler: tao indeed :)
arabella Ella: who is to decide what the 'right action ' is to be when there may be various conflicting choices?
Wol Euler: you are, aph
Wol Euler: *ara, sorry :)
Agatha Macbeth looks for Aph
arabella Ella smiles
Wol Euler: only in my head
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
arabella Ella: even though a 'right action' for me may have other not so good consequences for others?
Mickorod Renard: I fancy that one should follow that that is least like what appears wrong
Wol Euler: if it has evil consequences, then it is not right.
Mickorod Renard: he he
arabella Ella: or could a selfish action be a 'right action'?
arabella Ella: (sorry just feeling a tad confused)
Qt Core: there is the right thing and The Right Thing
Wol Euler: if you can see that it will do harm to others, then it is clearly not right
Korel Laloix: It sort of depends on who you consider others... vs things.
Mickorod Renard: even harm that you dont think they will recieve, if its a psibility then it would be wrong I should think
Wol Euler nods.
Korel Laloix: When the Europeans came over here, us Natives were things, not people.
Wol Euler: indeed
arabella Ella: even women were 'things' in the past
Mickorod Renard: like the saying'what they dont know wont harm',,,but I dont like that method
Wol Euler: very recently. For some American politicians they still are
Wol Euler: but let's not get into american politics, please
Agatha Macbeth: No, let's not :p
Korel Laloix: Agreed.
Qt Core: european, then ?
Wol Euler: god no :)
Agatha Macbeth: Even worse!
Wol Euler: less full of hate and stupidity and violence, but also unpleasant
Wol Euler: on such a fine sunny day
Agatha Macbeth: Truly
Qt Core: probably antarctic politics may be a nice topic
Wol Euler: hehehehh
Santoshima Resident: or penguins
Agatha Macbeth: Votes for penguins!
Wol Euler: more bigger fish now!
Santoshima Resident: penguins always get my note
Santoshima Resident: vote
Agatha Macbeth: Those in favour raise a flipper
arabella Ella flipper raised
Wol Euler grins.
Agatha Macbeth: Yay
  --BELL--1330
Korel Laloix: Just recently saw this.....
Korel Laloix: http://www.allegromedia.com/sugi/penguin/
Agatha Macbeth: Think we took a detour there
Mickorod Renard: its funny, harping back to the past politics,,,I suppose they are attachments that should be dropped,,but its not a wise move to ignore mistakes of the past
Wol Euler: not ignore, but stop hating ourselves or each other for them
Wol Euler: learn from, and remember so as to avoid in future
Korel Laloix: If it was just that easy.
Wol Euler: I didn't say it was easy :)
Agatha Macbeth: That's the trick
Agatha Macbeth: But people have a talent for making the same mistake repeatedly
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Korel Laloix: Unfortunatly though, some people look on politics like football... they want to be on the winning team reguardless of how bad that team behaves.
Mickorod Renard: I have observed that,,its a human thing
Wol Euler nods.
Korel Laloix: And with no real care for the consequences.
Wol Euler nods.
arabella Ella: may I ask - if in wu wei we should choose the right course of action - how is this ingrained in young children - the skill to choose the right action to take?
Wol Euler: well, in so far as they do :) children can be as incredibly egotistical as any adult
Wol Euler: a hungry baby doesn't care for ANYTHING but its hunger
Agatha Macbeth: If not more so
Korel Laloix: I had to write a short paper a while back in a phsilophy class about how I developed my sense of right and wrong.
Wol Euler listens.
Korel Laloix: It was difficult.
Wol Euler: what did you say? (if you want to talk about it)
arabella Ella: interesting Korel please say more if u could ....
Korel Laloix: OH.. lol.. I just made some shit up that I knew the prof wanted to hear.
Mickorod Renard: I think it changes dependent on age
Qt Core: just the question if i have a sense of right and wrong or if i impose myself one scares me
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
Korel Laloix: But it did get me to thinking.
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: that is the purpose of education :)
Agatha Macbeth: Alledgedly
Korel Laloix: But I grew up in a strange environment.
Korel Laloix: I came to the conclusion that I really to my sense of right and wrong from my best friend's mother.
Wol Euler smiles and listens.
Korel Laloix: And a bit from my aunts.
arabella Ella: so generally speaking how do we develop our sense of right and wrong do you think?
Korel Laloix: Actually taught me to think of others.
Wol Euler nods.
Mickorod Renard: when I was younger it depended on whether I would get into trouble,,,,when older it depends on whether I could bear to hurt someone
Agatha Macbeth smiles @ Mick
Wol Euler: "thinking of others" is the core of it all, I believe
Qt Core: sometimes in the easiest way, getting one for free there are so many people/organization wanting to give us one ;-)
arabella Ella: and thinking of others - can that be developed as an adult and how?
Wol Euler: I don't know, Ara. I suspect it can if the person wishes to develop it.
Wol Euler: what do you think?
Mickorod Renard: some of what happens when you get older is that you are sick of people doing you the wrong and thats how it sinks in
Korel Laloix: Fro me though.. one of the big turneing points was realizing that giving people things was not necessarily the kind thing to do.
arabella Ella: some form of motivation must be present i guess
Santoshima Resident: hi Zen :)
Wol Euler: hello zen
Zen Arado: H Y'all
Mickorod Renard: hi zen
Agatha Macbeth: Zenny :)
Korel Laloix: Heya
arabella Ella: Hallo Zen!
Qt Core: hi zen, we just went from light chat to discussing how to get the sense of what is right and what is wrong
Korel Laloix: But my sense of write and wrong has hugely changed over the last 7 years or so.
Santoshima Resident: the light chat was the warm up stretching
Korel Laloix: right
Wol Euler: does that correspond to your seven years in SL, korel,, or is that just a coincidence?
Zen Arado: hmmm interesting
Korel Laloix: Some over lap yes.
Korel Laloix: If I had not joined SL, a lot of my life changes would not have happened for sure.
Wol Euler: was it because of SL? or did it happen here?
Wol Euler: ah :)
Korel Laloix: SL got me physically away from my mother.
Korel Laloix: So that really started me thinking.
Wol Euler: ((let me know afterwards if you want this out of the log))
Wol Euler: or aggers since it's her session
Korel Laloix: It is good.
Zen Arado: maybe everything in your life previously led you to come into SL
Wol Euler: okay, just checking :)
Korel Laloix: Well no, I joined SL to do a paper for a psych class.
Wol Euler pushes her Momma Bear impulse back into the cave
Korel Laloix: lol
Korel Laloix: Thanks.
Wol Euler: yw
Zen Arado: yes.. you joined a psych class and that pushed you into SL
Wol Euler: "what do you call somebody who gets between a mother bear and her cubs?" "an ambulance"
Korel Laloix: Yes.
Zen Arado: and something pushed you into psych class
Korel Laloix smiles
Korel Laloix: Well yes.. was trying to figure me out.
  --BELL--1345
Zen Arado: I see it it a web of influences
Zen Arado: we select two points A and B and say A caused B but...
Wol Euler nods.
Zen Arado: make any sense?
Korel Laloix: THing are not linear for sure.
Korel Laloix: And cause and effect are hard to judge.
Zen Arado: and not just two pinpoints
Agatha Macbeth: Quantum entanglement
Zen Arado: nice Aga :)
Wol Euler smiles.
Agatha Macbeth grins
Mickorod Renard: yea,,ags has it
Agatha Macbeth: Is it contageous?
arabella Ella impressed as always with Agas language
Korel Laloix: Yes, but curable with chocolate.
Wol Euler: too late for us if it is
Zen Arado: heh
Wol Euler: ah!
Qt Core: brb
Agatha Macbeth: Hehe
Zen Arado: sorry if I cut you off Kori
Zen Arado: pls continue
Mickorod Renard: I can help thinking of sexual things when I hear quantum entanglement
Zen Arado: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Why exactly? :p
Mickorod Renard: was there a game called that once?
Wol Euler assumes you meant "can't"
Agatha Macbeth: Oh I thought you said 'can't'
Mickorod Renard: Kant, maybe?
Agatha Macbeth: Kant can't
Mickorod Renard: ohh I see what you mean now
Mickorod Renard: yes I meant can't
Agatha Macbeth: You seem to be obsessed with sex lately Mick ;-)
Wol Euler: or just more honest about it than the rest of us are :)
arabella Ella: He does doesn't he Aggers?
Agatha Macbeth: Or that
Zen Arado: he just admits it :)
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Mickorod Renard: I think I am always, but sometimes I have other things to do
Korel Laloix: Chocoate?
Wol Euler: like that
Agatha Macbeth: Build wardrobes?
Korel Laloix: Out of chocolate?
Wol Euler: edible wardrobes. there's a thought
Wol Euler: does Ikea know?
Mickorod Renard: actually I had best not think
Santoshima Resident: [ light chat interlude ]
Wol Euler: :)
Korel Laloix: Edible underwear for Mick.
Wol Euler: sorry san :) back to seriousness
Agatha Macbeth: They make theirs out of ryvita
Korel Laloix: ryvita?
arabella Ella: they?
Wol Euler laughs.
Agatha Macbeth: Crispbread
Wol Euler: a joke at my expense
Mickorod Renard: maybe they just been on too long?
Agatha Macbeth: I meant the swedes, but nm
Santoshima Resident: { light chat often contains the heart of the matter }
Korel Laloix: We can only hope.
Agatha Macbeth: Heart is where the home is
Zen Arado: there's many a true word....
Korel Laloix: Has anyone else had a significant change in their sense of right and wrong from SL?
Korel Laloix: Or other virtual expereince?
Mickorod Renard: matter,,that an interesting word too
Zen Arado: hmmm
Agatha Macbeth: Dark matter
Zen Arado: is it corrupting
Santoshima Resident: more so, a chance to explore reactivity
Wol Euler: not as such, but it's certainly stretched my own boundaries of what is good
Zen Arado: 'the house of the rising SL'
Korel Laloix: What is good.. as in good vs bad.. or what is pleasing?
Wol Euler: pleasing
Wol Euler: it has broadened my tastes significantly
Korel Laloix: I have found some new things here for sure.
Korel Laloix: Example?
Zen Arado: being able to meet a variety of people
Wol Euler: taught me to see beauty in new places
Zen Arado: not just N.Irish folk
Wol Euler: where I had not thought to look for it before
Agatha Macbeth: The macrocosm within the microcosm
Zen Arado: influx of new ideas
Zen Arado: open mindedness
Korel Laloix: I started liking country music from in here.
Wol Euler: wow :) heheheheh
Santoshima Resident: :)
Zen Arado: oh no
Agatha Macbeth: Erk
Zen Arado: corrupted:)
Korel Laloix: That is a good thing... smiles
Wol Euler grins.
Wol Euler: meeting SL people in RL was something of a revelation
Zen Arado: no hope for you now Kori
Korel Laloix: And sad part... I had most of my early sex education from SL.. I mean past the silly classes in school.
Zen Arado: you done lost your man
Mickorod Renard: I have learnt much,,and lots from Pila's iching sessions
Korel Laloix: I knew that a long time a go.
Agatha Macbeth: Yowww
Wol Euler: heheheh
Wol Euler: I think the emotional intensity of SL can teach a lot, if one is open for that
Korel Laloix: It can also teach you new ways to shield yourself.
Zen Arado: hmmm sex education theme ?
Agatha Macbeth: Can work both ways tho
Zen Arado: :)
Wol Euler: sure, aggers
Wol Euler: everything can always work both ways, it depends on how the person chooses to listen to it or not
Korel Laloix: I am not sure I consider SL emotionaly intense though.
  --BELL--1400
Korel Laloix: What do you mean?
Agatha Macbeth: Or whether to listen to it
Agatha Macbeth: Bye San
Mickorod Renard: bye San
Zen Arado: do we create the emotional intensity ourselves though?
Santoshima Resident: thank you ~ bye everyone
Wol Euler: emotional intensity in the way that people fall in love quickly adn deeply here
Zen Arado: byee San
Korel Laloix: Ciao
Wol Euler: bye san
arabella Ella: bye San
Qt Core: bye San
Mickorod Renard: I feel you have touched on something profound Wol
Zen Arado: so just another place to create it
arabella Ella: to be human is to be emotional
Mickorod Renard: Listen,,thats an incredible thing to think about
Korel Laloix: Never fallen in love here in seven years... but I have seen many that have.
Wol Euler: sure :) but my experience is that the focus of SL intensifies that emotionality
Wol Euler: right, korel :)
Korel Laloix: KNow two couple that got maried RL from it.
Agatha Macbeth: Like Stormy did :)
Wol Euler: mmhmm :)
Korel Laloix: Three then.
Mickorod Renard: well,,,some may have to do with the fact that our listening on sl is actually reading,,that makes us focus more
Agatha Macbeth: God, he even changed countries...erk
arabella Ella: global village syndrome
Zen Arado: maybe some come here looking for love
Wol Euler: yes, mick, what I meant is the way that our experience of other people is so tightly channeled into visual and written
Zen Arado: so no surprise if they find it
Wol Euler: so much is missing from RL encounters that usually acts to inhibit and slow us down
Wol Euler: the absence of those brakes makes us emotionally faster here
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe a test drive helps?
Korel Laloix: SL does act like alcohol... it lowers our inhibitions... for good or bad.
Wol Euler: exactly :)
Zen Arado: hmmm yes Kori
Wol Euler: and people's inhibitions are generally lower online *anyway*
Korel Laloix: (one of the conclusions from that paper I joined SL to write)
Wol Euler nods.
Mickorod Renard: I quite often ask my wife to repeat what I said to her,,,,its amazing how she can never remember...but I suppose thats life,,interesting exercise
Zen Arado: has another glass of SL
Zen Arado: and vice versa Mick?
Mickorod Renard: I pretend I am senile and have forgotten myself
Zen Arado: :)
Wol Euler smiles.
Mickorod Renard: :))
Wol Euler: well, I don't always listen to myself either
Zen Arado: I don;t have to pretend :)
Agatha Macbeth: The worst bit is she believes you
Wol Euler: that's anohter thing good about SL, the chat log history
arabella Ella: you can always scroll back on SL Mick :)
Zen Arado: you would think they could do that in RL some way
Mickorod Renard: yes true,,thats what I worry about,,maybe my wife may check the logs
Korel Laloix: But only if you put a discalimer in your profile... lmbo

Unscheduled pause
Agatha Macbeth wonders if she crashed...
Wol Euler pokes you experimentally
Qt Core: no
Korel Laloix: Who?
Wol Euler: seems to be there......
Agatha Macbeth: Hmm, went quiet
Korel Laloix: Everyone was thinking about sex.
Agatha Macbeth: Ahh, that explains it
Wol Euler: probably :)
Mickorod Renard: maybe we went through a spacial senile time warp?
Agatha Macbeth: Could be
Wol Euler: we took a jump to the left
Korel Laloix: and a step to the right?
Qt Core: or trying to go up in rl logs and being scared by them ?
arabella Ella is simply pondering on the complexity of life and death
Korel Laloix: second life and second death?
Agatha Macbeth: Nice rose btw
arabella Ella: RL asctually Kori and thanks Ags!
Agatha Macbeth: YW
Korel Laloix: Mind giving us some thoughts ara?
Mickorod Renard: hey now thats a thought,,,,should I die and someone take over my avi,,then that would be strange,,
  --BELL--1415
arabella Ella: well as humans we are pretty complex creatures when we have time to meditate on our lives we spend most of them trying to work out what we are and why we are the way we are
arabella Ella: and due to change within and without us we can rarely if ever come to any conclusions
Agatha Macbeth: If I start doing that I usually go and look for something to do
arabella Ella smiles
arabella Ella: the thought comes about possibly cos we have a state funeral here on saturday for dom mintoff who was PM in 60s and 70s until 1984
Wol Euler: oh yes, I knew that name
arabella Ella: some of the brits here may have heard of him (if they are old enough)
Agatha Macbeth: Wow, he just died?
Wol Euler: farewell, dom
Agatha Macbeth: How old?
arabella Ella: he passed away on tuesday aged 96
Agatha Macbeth: Jeez
Agatha Macbeth: I remember him from the 70s
Wol Euler nods.
Mickorod Renard: that is so old its unfair
arabella Ella nods
Korel Laloix: Back to RL.. take care all.. thanks for the chat.
Wol Euler: bye korel, enjoy the day
arabella Ella: bye Korel
Agatha Macbeth: Bye K, have fun
Mickorod Renard: bye Korel
Wol Euler: good luck tomorrow!
Korel Laloix: THanks... smiles
Wol Euler: sleep!
Qt Core: bye Korel and good luck
Zen Arado: byee Kori
Qt Core: question: how would you arrange for online friends and aquittance to know you died in rl ? how /who to close your facebook/twitter ? for your browser cache and hostory to be deleted ? ;-)
Wol Euler: hehehehe
Wol Euler: browser cache, yeah, there's an issue
Agatha Macbeth: Make a will?
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: I made a parallel document to my will, stating which services I wanted people to tidy up for me
arabella Ella: interesting question Qt ... we should appoint each other as whatever the legal term is
Agatha Macbeth: A Wol will
Wol Euler: there's a provision for adding a note to my SL profile, for example, and how to put a last post into my blogs
Agatha Macbeth blows the bugle
arabella Ella: owwwwww Wollie !!!!
arabella Ella sniffs away a sob
Mickorod Renard: that sounds fun,,I could do a parralel will,,that would confuse them
Wol Euler: it will become increasingly significant as our lives melt into the internet
Wol Euler: time was when an ad in the local newspaper would reach everyone who knew a person
Wol Euler: not any more ...
Agatha Macbeth: Where there's a Wol there's a way
arabella Ella: oh yes i know some friends who passed away a few years ago and their FB accounts are still open
Zen Arado: a PaB funeral
Qt Core: (that create the problem of password keeping too)
Wol Euler: well, yeah, you have to put teh passwords into the document :)
Zen Arado: have to check out coffins
arabella Ella: are there any cemetries on SL or funeral parlours
Wol Euler: and some VERY explicit instructions since the people who carry them out are probably not themselves SL users or whatever
Zen Arado: want cremation
Wol Euler: yes, there are, ara
Zen Arado: would be better for SL
arabella Ella: wow
Agatha Macbeth: I want to be pixellated
Zen Arado: burning man :)
Wol Euler: :)
Qt Core: derlled ?
Mickorod Renard: I would like to free all my laptops when I die,,sort of like a paper of freedom like they used to give slaves
Zen Arado: become a cloud of orange smoke
Zen Arado: an SL ghost
arabella Ella: Or we could consider asking someone we trust to 'inherit' our SL avi etc.
Wol Euler: that is so tricky, IMHO
Zen Arado: an unusuall thought Ara
Agatha Macbeth: Actually, I did hear of a guy who died in RL, and his wife came into SL in his av to tell people what had happened
Qt Core: a sl av would not be a great inheritance an hi level wow character....
Wol Euler: the avatar is so tightly bound to a personality
Zen Arado: yes
Wol Euler: I think it would be really disturbing if say Aggers came into SL one day and had no idea who I was or what PaB was about
arabella Ella: true
Zen Arado: it wouldn't be her
Wol Euler: my point :)
Agatha Macbeth: There was a day like that three years ago :p
arabella Ella: really?
Qt Core: there ever was avatar selling like in selling a "famous" store/pub/bar owner (with the bar/pub/store too ?
Agatha Macbeth: When I arrived!
Wol Euler: yes of course, but you know what I mean
Wol Euler: if that happened *now*
Mickorod Renard: maybe we should talk to Storm about a pab crematorium for avis that their owners have died>?
Zen Arado: a little plot for those who have gone beyond
Mickorod Renard: he he
Agatha Macbeth: That sounds like something Boxy would suggest
Zen Arado: a little headstone
Wol Euler: that squeaks when you touch it
Zen Arado: :)
arabella Ella: yea with an epitaph too
Agatha Macbeth: I squeak when you touch me
Zen Arado: with a little nose :)
Wol Euler: running aph
Wol Euler: it's the rubber gear in your case though

And finally, as if on cue....
Aphrodite Macbain: eep
Zen Arado: Hi Aph
Agatha Macbeth looks sideways
Qt Core: Hi Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: hi
Mickorod Renard: there must be a way that your avi can be anhialated
  --BELL--1430
Agatha Macbeth: Wow it really IS Aph this time!
Aphrodite Macbain: strange things
arabella Ella: Hallo Aph!
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm glad you are all still here
Aphrodite Macbain: hello arabella zen qt wol mick
Agatha Macbeth: Wol was wanting to ask you about something...
Zen Arado: so are we :)
Aphrodite Macbain: feels the light shining down on her face
Aphrodite Macbain: I wont admit to anything
Aphrodite Macbain: shoot
Wol Euler: are you now, or ahve you ever been, a penguin?
Wol Euler: sorry :)
Aphrodite Macbain: no but I have been a puffin. does that count?
Agatha Macbeth: That wasn't it...
Zen Arado: need a lawyer Aph?
Wol Euler: close ....
Wol Euler: okay, let me scroll back and paste
Aphrodite Macbain: looks for her address book
Agatha Macbeth: Something to do with work as I recall
Aphrodite Macbain: work?
Agatha Macbeth: Hmm
Aphrodite Macbain: the fact that I said I didnt like it?
Agatha Macbeth: Or not work...or something
Aphrodite Macbain: hhhmmm. the answer is 49
Agatha Macbeth: Yes, that was it
Agatha Macbeth: My age has nothing to do with it
Mickorod Renard: ok,,I am leaving,,to get some kip
Mickorod Renard: byeeeeeee
Agatha Macbeth: Bye Mick
Aphrodite Macbain: we were talking about one of the rules
Agatha Macbeth: Stay off the sex
arabella Ella: i must go get some sleep too good night everyone!
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Mick
Qt Core: bye Mick
Aphrodite Macbain: Get some sex
Agatha Macbeth: You too Ara ;-)
Wol Euler: [13:12] Wol Euler: there was something I wanted to talk about with Aph, but she isn't here. [13:12] Wol Euler: sometime fairly recently she said something odd about work, what it was or should not be [13:16] Wol Euler: Aphrodite Macbain: Wol for me - work is something that is a responsibility and a bit of a burden Wol Euler: we should talk about that then some day, aph Wol Euler: because to me work is potentially anything that isn't sleep Wol Euler: just as play is the same [13:17] Wol Euler: we had been talking about RULE SEVEN: The only rule is work. If you work it will lead to something. It’s the people who do all of the work all of the time who eventually catch on to things.
Zen Arado: bye Mick, Ara
Wol Euler: [13:18] Wol Euler: and the word "work" in connection with something she wanted to do, seemed to upset Aph [13:18] Wol Euler: to me "work" in this context means only "get up off your lazy ass and do something" [13:19] Wol Euler: the thing that you do in this moment might be skateboarding, or feeding pigeons in the park [13:19] Wol Euler: whatever, but you must DO it not just think about it
Wol Euler: bye ara, take care
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes.
Aphrodite Macbain: I remember
Agatha Macbeth: Do we enter that as a guilty plea?
Wol Euler: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: but you must DO it not just think about it: forme that is an existential issue. a la Sartre. Action rather than theory is meaningful
Aphrodite Macbain: but action isn't necessarily work
Agatha Macbeth: Oui Jean-Paul, c'est nous
Wol Euler: what then is "work"?
Aphrodite Macbain: Play is another thing, create is another thing. work is yet another thing
Wol Euler: does it only apply to things that are nasty and forced on us?
Zen Arado: 'work' can mean something we don't like to do
Wol Euler: can one not work at play?
Aphrodite Macbain: I am only answering for myself.
Wol Euler: in WoW after a hard-fought victory in a dungeon, people often say "good work guys"
Aphrodite Macbain: It is not a universal perspective.
Qt Core: so an artist creates or works ?
Wol Euler: I know :) but I am curious to hear your perspective
Aphrodite Macbain: an artists creates
Zen Arado: but if they need monet fast
Aphrodite Macbain: for me work s a duty that I have performed almost all my life.
Qt Core: and never works ?
Zen Arado: money :)
Aphrodite Macbain: It is what I SHOULD OR MUST do
Aphrodite Macbain: It's what my super ego tells me I MUST do
Zen Arado: if they have a wife and family to feed they might have to paint things they don't like'potboilers
Aphrodite Macbain: I am getting tired of being run by shoulds and must dos
Wol Euler nods.
Qt Core: i was thinking about the languages (like italian) where the corresponding word for works has the same origin of the one meaning labor
Aphrodite Macbain: It was a personal reaction Wol.
Agatha Macbeth: Don't we all?
Wol Euler: understood :)
Wol Euler: but I was curious about the reaction
Wol Euler: that#s all
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: I am retired now
Aphrodite Macbain: and I dont work any more. I explore, create, play, experiment
Wol Euler: if you were to set yourself the task of finishing a particular thing on a particular date, for an external reason like a gathering, would that be work?
Wol Euler: because it has should and must do and deadline, even if they come from you
Zen Arado: if someone asks me to do a commission painting that is work to me
Aphrodite Macbain: No, because there is an element of desire in it. I would be doing that because I wanted to achieve the result. It would be motivated by an outcome that I had envisioned
Zen Arado: becaus et is usually not something I would like to paint otherwise
Aphrodite Macbain: so it wouldn't feel like work
Aphrodite Macbain: right Zen
Aphrodite Macbain: exactly
Wol Euler nods thoughtfully
Qt Core: (sometimes we seem to want to understand so much it seem we assault people ;-)
Zen Arado: a true artist just paints what they enjoy
Wol Euler: O.O
Aphrodite Macbain: listens
Zen Arado: not what sells
Wol Euler: I hope that wasn't the case here, Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: what an interesting statement Qt
Wol Euler: no assault intended
Wol Euler: or qqt
Wol Euler: *qt
Zen Arado: many great artists sold little during their lifetime
Qt Core: yes, i know
Agatha Macbeth: True
Aphrodite Macbain: I guess of it feels onerous it's work. If there is joy in it it is something else
Zen Arado: exactly
Wol Euler: may I ask what you did before you retired, aph?
Aphrodite Macbain: Fortunately for me all my jobs were enjoyable and interesting.
Zen Arado: but even enjoyable things need work
Zen Arado: not every aspect is enjoyable
Qt Core: so even your work may be work or not work dependng on the day
Zen Arado: and discipline
Wol Euler nods.
Aphrodite Macbain: I have been an art curator for 30 years of my life- worked in museums and galleries
  --BELL--1445
Wol Euler: many people would consider that job paradise :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Most recently was a community arts curator, working with communities
Wol Euler: ah, that less so :)
Wol Euler: something about "committee" does not sit will with "enjoyable and interesting"
Agatha Macbeth: Or 'efficiency'
Zen Arado: yes :)
Aphrodite Macbain: no I loved it. I felt I was making a differene in the world, I didn't always feel that as a curator.
Agatha Macbeth smiles
Aphrodite Macbain: communities not committees Wol
Wol Euler: right, I misread. sorry.
Wol Euler: well I am surprised in that case that the word "work" should be so deeply negatively loaded for you
Aphrodite Macbain: There was a lot of "work" interspersed with the other stuff Wol!
Zen Arado: communities suggests committees to me
Wol Euler: where do you suppose that comes from?
Aphrodite Macbain: 2 different roots
Zen Arado: some ppl love committee work though
Aphrodite Macbain: One can learn how to make collaborative committee work very interesting if it's done properly and run well
Aphrodite Macbain: The key is to ensure everyone knows what the purpose our out come is and that each have a meaningful role to plaay
Aphrodite Macbain: I feel I am preaching...
Aphrodite Macbain: I teach an on line course on this: Building Community Relationshps"
Agatha Macbeth: Wow
Zen Arado: really?
Aphrodite Macbain: designed for arts organizations
Wol Euler: please continue. aph :)
Aphrodite Macbain: through the University of Victoria continuing studies program. You can look it up
Aphrodite Macbain: I wil be teaching this while in Italy. So am depending on wifi!
Wol Euler: oh wow :)
Wol Euler: heheheh
Aphrodite Macbain: so many people say they want to serve their community but have no idea how to go about it. I teach these skills
Wol Euler nods.
Qt Core: good luck, especially in old building with walls made by rocks whit an half meter width
Wol Euler: very good idea, aph.
Qt Core: luck*
Aphrodite Macbain: We can talk about it as I teach the course! All the texts are on line and all the chats are too.
Aphrodite Macbain: It's thru a program called Moodle
Wol Euler smiles.
Agatha Macbeth: Interesting name
Aphrodite Macbain: yes!
Aphrodite Macbain: Muddle is better
Agatha Macbeth grins
Aphrodite Macbain: which is my regular state
Agatha Macbeth: I know the feeling
Aphrodite Macbain: I really do stupid things sometimes. :-(
Agatha Macbeth: Don't we all?
Qt Core: who doesn't ?
Wol Euler nods.
Aphrodite Macbain: hmm some have greater effects than others
Agatha Macbeth: Being born is usually the first
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Aphrodite Macbain: waaaaaaa
Agatha Macbeth gives Aph a handkerchief
Zen Arado: and a nappy
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks Aggers.
Agatha Macbeth: YW
Aphrodite Macbain: throws the nappy in the pool and watches what happens
Agatha Macbeth: It gets wet
Agatha Macbeth yawns and stretches
Agatha Macbeth: And my RL bum has gone to sleep
Wol Euler: awwwww
Wol Euler leans over and massages it gently
Agatha Macbeth: Long session...
Agatha Macbeth: Ooooh
Aphrodite Macbain: hands Aggers another cushion
Agatha Macbeth smiles
Agatha Macbeth: TY
  --BELL--1500
Aphrodite Macbain: try a handstand
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe I'll call it a day
Wol Euler: get up and make tea :)
Agatha Macbeth: Yes, I was going to actually! :p
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: there, you see?
Wol Euler: goodnight, dear aggers
Agatha Macbeth: Bye for now, have fun all
Qt Core: Night Aga
Zen Arado: nite Aggers
Aphrodite Macbain: waves beyee
Wol Euler: perhaps we can continue with this idea, unless it's done?
Wol Euler: another day, I mean
Aphrodite Macbain: sure- the work thing?
Qt Core: more work to do ? ;-)
Zen Arado: needs more work
Zen Arado: :
Wol Euler: heheh
Wol Euler: I think there is, I think the difference between "work" and "play" is just by itself worth a session or two
Aphrodite Macbain: yes, I agree
Qt Core: yes and don't forget the "do things" in the middle
Aphrodite Macbain: It will be hard work but if it is loose and exciting and flexible it will be play
Wol Euler smiles.
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: good topic
Qt Core: time to go sleep, then
Wol Euler: all right, I too should be going. Midnight!
Aphrodite Macbain: sleep well
Qt Core: 'night all, bye
Wol Euler: goodnight!
Zen Arado: byee all