2013.07.07 13:00 - Hypocritical

The Guardian for this meeting was Catrinamonblue Resident. The comments are by Catrinamonblue Resident.

Beautifulmarira Resident: 's current display-name is "Mari".
Wol Euler: hello mari
Beautifulmarira Resident: hi
Catrinamonblue Resident: 's current display-name is "Catrinamonblue".
Wol Euler: have you been here before?
Beautifulmarira Resident: yes
Wol Euler: good :)
Eliza Madrigal: 's current display-name is "Eliza".
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: hello
Eliza Madrigal: oh, thank you Cat
Catrinamonblue Resident: lol :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Qt :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Was just telling Wol I need the practice :)
Qt Core: Hi all!
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi QT :)
Beautifulmarira Resident: hello Qt

Catrinamonblue Resident: the topic is "Hypocrisy" any thoughts?

Wol Euler: hello eliza, qt

Eliza Madrigal: I find it hard to start with a negative topic
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: let's see whether we can find any positive at all in it, then :)
Santoshima Resident: 's current display-name is "San".
Eliza Madrigal: sure!
Catrinamonblue Resident: how is it negative?
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
Qt Core: Hi San
Eliza Madrigal: Hi San :)
Wol Euler: hello again San
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi San
Santoshima Resident: hi Qt, Eliza, Wol, Cat, Mari
Eliza Madrigal: urban dictionary says: A squishy hippo that happends to be hypocritical of others. Derived from the word hypocrite, but accomodated to specificy hippos.
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal smiles because of the hippo in her dream... maybe some symbolism...hah
Wol Euler thinks of the Archbishop of Hippo, whom she considers a hypocrite.
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Luci!
Wol Euler: hello luci

Catrinamonblue Resident: from wikipedia
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hypocrisy is not simply failing to practice those virtues that one preaches. Samuel Johnson made this point when he wrote about the misuse of the charge of "hypocrisy" in Rambler No. 14: Nothing is more unjust, however common, than to charge with hypocrisy him that expresses zeal for those virtues which he neglects to practice; since he may be sincerely convinced of the advantages of conquering his passions, without having yet obtained the victory, as a man may be confident of the advantages of a voyage, or a journey, without having courage or industry to undertake it, and may honestly recommend to others, those attempts which he neglects himself.[2] Thus, an alcoholic's advocating temperance, for example, would not be considered an act of hypocrisy as long as the alcoholic made no pretense of sobriety.
Lucinda Lavender: HI Everyone.

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: missed you at dream session Luci... such lovely projects
Lucinda Lavender: So sorry I was not there
Lucinda Lavender: there is not going to be a posting about it is there...
Lucinda Lavender: ?
Eliza Madrigal: no, Sunshine will make a book and I will give you the transcript though :)
Santoshima Resident: hi Lucinda
Lucinda Lavender: that is wonderful!
Beautifulmarira Resident: gtg :) RL is a busy place sry
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: bye mari, take care
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Mari
Qt Core: bye Mari
Wol Euler: why so distant, luci? come and join us

Eliza Madrigal: this definition of hypocrisy though... hm, it seems that of course no one can quite live up to all they aspire or idealize? to extoll a virtue does not necessarily mean to claim one has attained it?
Wol Euler: it's a valid point, I think.

Lucinda Lavender: I am in such a laggy state that I have troubles placing my avatar
Wol Euler: okay :) not to worry
Lucinda Lavender: :))
Lucinda Lavender: for the sake of coservation of space and frindship:)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Lucinda Lavender: friendship
Eliza Madrigal happy to be caught up in Luci's gravity
Lucinda Lavender: nods
Lucinda Lavender: I am sitting in my backyard at the firepit where a chicken or two are investigating my feet
Wol Euler smiles.
Santoshima Resident: excuse me, need to roll a few boulders up a small hill ..
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: take care, sansyphus
Eliza Madrigal: maybe it also points to, that we can see what others should do better than ourselves
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye San :)
Eliza Madrigal: bye San :)
Wol Euler nods.
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
Eliza Madrigal: it is so simple for me to see when a friend is telling themselves lies
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: but I never lie to myself :P
Wol Euler smiles.
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Wol Euler: "prematurely correct" or similar euphemisms come into play when it is ourselves
Wol Euler: "by this time next year I will have ..."
Eliza Madrigal: indeed
Wol Euler: so I can claim it now
Eliza Madrigal: on pointe Wol
Eliza Madrigal: maybe we subtly pressure one another too, to give sure answers
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: I think that is true, yes
Eliza Madrigal: just like people expect politicians to promise things
Wol Euler: exactly
Wol Euler: and always to have a single definite answer
Eliza Madrigal nods
Wol Euler: any politician who dared to honestly answer " I don't know yet" would be shouted out of office
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: or ignored
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Eliza Madrigal: hard to make room for changes
Eliza Madrigal: what was the desire with this topic? to clarify something?

--BELL--

Catrinamonblue Resident: seems to have come from Bleu's discussion of Dante's Inferno
Catrinamonblue Resident: during the guardian session
Wol Euler: I haven't read it, sorry to say
Eliza Madrigal: ah, the hellish state of hypocrisy?
Eliza Madrigal: there used to be a dante's inferno in SL
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bleu (bleu.oleander): is it hypocritic to say you are compassionate but not act that way?
Catrinamonblue Resident: from the session
Eliza Madrigal: hard to judge another's compassion
Catrinamonblue Resident: true
Catrinamonblue Resident: but what about passive aggressive behavior?
Catrinamonblue Resident: saying one thing but undermining with actions
Catrinamonblue Resident: is that hypocrisy?
Eliza Madrigal: could be, if the other wanted clarity from others?
Eliza Madrigal: or demanded that?
Wol Euler: are all lies hypocrisy?
Catrinamonblue Resident: from the free dictionary.com
Wol Euler: that seems pretty broad to me

Catrinamonblue Resident: carry fire in one hand and water in the other To be duplicitous, to engage in double-dealing; to be two-faced, to speak with forked tongue. The expression comes from Plautus; it continues “to bear a stone in one hand, a piece of bread in the other.” Thus, the expression indicates that a person is prepared to act in totally contradictory ways to achieve his purposes.

Bruce Mowbray: 's current display-name is "Bruce".
Wol Euler: hello bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, and Namaste, everyone!
Eliza Madrigal: some are very good works doing, but motives can be more social capital than responsiveness - someone who thought compassion = action would say then that motives didn't matter ...
Qt Core: Hi Bruce
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Bruce
Lucinda Lavender: hi Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: listens.

Eliza Madrigal: maybe there is a difference between honest fruit and mere good works or benevolence
Eliza Madrigal: virtue
Catrinamonblue Resident: intentions?
Eliza Madrigal: genuineness, nods
Bruce Mowbray: authenticity of being -- revealed through compassion?
Eliza Madrigal: such a big topic
Bruce Mowbray: my, yes.
Wol Euler: hypocrisy is definitely dishonest being IMO
Catrinamonblue Resident: I agree
Bruce Mowbray: oh (forgot -- we just switched topics to next week's: Hypocrisy.
Eliza Madrigal: I have standards that I would expect from others that I can't live up to myself... not sure if that is hypocrisy or humanity
Bruce Mowbray: I was still on compassion, sry.

Wol Euler: can we go back to the beginning for a moment?
Wol Euler: [13:11] Catrinamonblue: how is it negative?
Wol Euler: could you expand on that, catrina?
Eliza Madrigal listens
Lucinda Lavender: reat...that helps me...
Catrinamonblue Resident: I was just throwing that out to jump start things :)
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: to understand why we feel it is negative
Lucinda Lavender: I was just thinking about the word sounding like a judgement of sorts...
Catrinamonblue Resident: or could it be positive is there a time when it is good to be dishonest?
Eliza Madrigal nods Luci
Wol Euler: well, it's not just "dishonest", is it? there's more to it than that
Lucinda Lavender: critical sounds like cudgement
Wol Euler: not every lie is a hypocricy
Lucinda Lavender: crisy...
Lucinda Lavender: sorry judgement
Catrinamonblue Resident: True Wol

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: if as a parent I don't want for my kids to do some things that I've done and yet wouldn't want to undo that I've done them, is that hypocrisy?
Catrinamonblue Resident: this caught hold of me in the guardian session Bleu (bleu.oleander): is it hypocritic to say you are compassionate but not act that way? as I feel I have had people act this wasy towards me
Catrinamonblue Resident: No Eliza that's lessons learned and passed on I think
Catrinamonblue Resident: not purposeful hurting of others
Eliza Madrigal: hm... I see... so Bleu was thinking of a personal situation in which someone claimed to be generally compassionate but wasn't to her
Eliza Madrigal: or she didn't feel that from them
Catrinamonblue Resident: I have had this happen to me to my great hurt
Eliza Madrigal: me too
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
Eliza Madrigal: and I've had people think it of me... though, if asked I would say I don't think "I" am compassionate
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: but that I work really hard not to get in the way of compassion... to learn better, do better
Eliza Madrigal: hm
Catrinamonblue Resident: is thinking of intentions

Wol Euler: in your example eliza, I think it's not hypocritical to not condemn your own past. It would be hypocritical if you told your kids not to do something you were still doing
Catrinamonblue Resident: agreed Wol :)
Eliza Madrigal: good clarification

Eliza Madrigal: then I do see areas of hypocrisy in my own life
Wol Euler sighs.
Eliza Madrigal: but how unhypocritical of me to admit...lollol
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: "work in progress"
Eliza Madrigal: indeed ^^
Lucinda Lavender: I just think I need to go for now...good discussion to you all
Wol Euler: bye luci, take care
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, Luci!
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Luci :)
Lucinda Lavender: thanks:)
Qt Core: Bye Luci
Eliza Madrigal: bye Luci (check emails)
Wol Euler: the essence of it, I think, is the false claim of moral superiority
Wol Euler: the putting oneself unjustly, incorrectly, above others
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods

Wol Euler: torture is a bad thing, but torturing isn't hypocritical
Wol Euler: condeming torture in other countries while practicing it in one's secret military prisons IS
Eliza Madrigal: Wol, that is very clarifying, thank you
Bruce Mowbray: Excellent example, Wol.
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes ty Wol
Bruce Mowbray: I am off to Berti's now.
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you everyone.
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Bruce :)
Wol Euler: so, what do we think at teh end of the hour? have we found anything positive in hypocrisy? ;)
Eliza Madrigal: that Wol can articulate it well
Wol Euler: heheheheheh
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: and that Eliza and all her alts need to sleep terribly
Catrinamonblue Resident: Nighty night Eliza :)
Wol Euler: goodnight eliza, I hope you can sleep tonight
Eliza Madrigal: hugs and many many thanks
Qt Core: 'nighjt Eliza
Wol Euler: I too am off to berti's meditaiton
Eliza Madrigal: enjoy meditation
Catrinamonblue Resident: I'm off too Bye Qt :)
Qt Core: Bye