The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado.

I started at Kira because of region restart:

Zen (zen.arado): Hi Bonito
Zen (zen.arado): restart happening going to Kira cafe
Zen (zen.arado): have you been ot pab before Bonito?
BonitoBonsai: not as Bonito
Zen (zen.arado): ha
BonitoBonsai: but as Barca
BonitoBonsai: and Adoro
Zen (zen.arado): ah ok know you now
BonitoBonsai: some years ago
Zen (zen.arado): yes
Zen (zen.arado): you like Qatar :)
BonitoBonsai: sure
BonitoBonsai: and Barcelona
BonitoBonsai: and I like your pieces of Art
Zen (zen.arado): oh ty
BonitoBonsai: pointilism
Zen (zen.arado): some of it
BonitoBonsai: french atmosphere
BonitoBonsai: gaugin
Zen (zen.arado): but most don't look that close
BonitoBonsai: stary nghts
Zen (zen.arado): Seurat was the pointilliste
BonitoBonsai: nice man
Zen (zen.arado): Starry Night was van Gogh
BonitoBonsai: ok
Zen (zen.arado): love that painting
Zen (zen.arado): made a pastel copy of it one time
BonitoBonsai: nice
Zen (zen.arado): wonder where that went to
Zen (zen.arado): remember flowing cypress trees
Zen (zen.arado): sinuous curves
BonitoBonsai: now I am interested in Bonsai
Zen (zen.arado): I see
BonitoBonsai: do they have Bonsai here
BonitoBonsai: in Kyra
Zen (zen.arado): I had one in my inventory I remember
BonitoBonsai: it has much japanes atmosphere
Zen (zen.arado): I bought from a Dutch woman
BonitoBonsai: ah
Zen (zen.arado): she had a garden centre
BonitoBonsai: I am Dutch too
Zen (zen.arado): Xeena was her name I think
BonitoBonsai: ah
Zen (zen.arado): yes I know
Zen (zen.arado): oh my inventory is loading
BonitoBonsai: ah
BonitoBonsai: oh
BonitoBonsai: wow
BonitoBonsai: man
BonitoBonsai: that is nice
BonitoBonsai: great !!!
BonitoBonsai: \blooming bonsai
BonitoBonsai: maybe when i can live here i want to have such a nice bonsai
BonitoBonsai: oh
BonitoBonsai: i get visitors in RL
BonitoBonsai: i have to leave
BonitoBonsai: now
BonitoBonsai: sorry bye
BonitoBonsai: till later
Zen (zen.arado): kk byee

Zen (zen.arado): Hi Uns, Sunji :)
Sunshine (szavanna): Zenji °͜°
Uns Mistwalker: hi Zen!
Sunshine (szavanna): can't see anything
Sunshine (szavanna): grrr
Uns Mistwalker: this is an alternate location for discussions?
Sunshine (szavanna): brb
Zen (zen.arado): my inventory is still loading
Sunshine (szavanna): ahh better
Zen (zen.arado): maybe they are doing switch here today
Zen (zen.arado): I was just looking for music for Friday
Sunshine (szavanna): how is everything :)
Sunshine (szavanna): yay
Sunshine (szavanna): anything interesting ?
Zen (zen.arado): ok a guy was here but left cos he had visitors in RL
Sunshine (szavanna): I am preparing for a party on saturday
Sunshine (szavanna): hi Flavi °͜°
Uns Mistwalker: welcome flavi!
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Flavi
Sunshine (szavanna): welcome to PaB
Flavi (flavius.larnia): hi all :)
Sunshine (szavanna): have a seat :)
Zen (zen.arado): have you been at pab before Flavi?
Flavi (flavius.larnia): no
Sunshine (szavanna): San :)
Flavi (flavius.larnia): hi san
Uns Mistwalker: Hi San.
Zen (zen.arado): it's just that what we say is posted on a Wiki and we need permission to psot anything you say
San (santoshima): hello everyone
Zen (zen.arado): is that ok with you?
Zen (zen.arado): Hi San :)
Sunshine (szavanna): we post our chats on our website
Flavi (flavius.larnia): yeah, no problem
Zen (zen.arado): great :)
Sunshine (szavanna): :)
Sunshine (szavanna): IM me anytime if you have questions Flavi :)
Uns Mistwalker: Play as Being is an RL project too.
Sunshine (szavanna): I send you basic notecard
Flavi (flavius.larnia): ok, thanks sunshine :)
Zen (zen.arado): we had a 13 yearold boy last week and I had to remove his name about 40 times
Sunshine (szavanna): oh really
Sunshine (szavanna): 13?
Zen (zen.arado): kk I ws going to do that
Flavi (flavius.larnia): how did you find out?
Zen (zen.arado): when he saw that you had to be 18 on notecard
Flavi (flavius.larnia): oh ok :)
Zen (zen.arado): pavilin is back byt too late to meove I guess
Zen (zen.arado): but
Sunshine (szavanna): why not move?
Sunshine (szavanna): we can show Flavi where we are usually
Uns Mistwalker: tick tick
Zen (zen.arado): ok
Sunshine (szavanna): ;D
Sunshine (szavanna): Flavi we tp you to our normal spot
Zen (zen.arado): allons nous
Flavi (flavius.larnia): ok
Sunshine (szavanna): ouiii monsieur

Moved back to Pavilion:

szavanna Resident: Flavi this is where we meet 4 times a day
szavanna Resident: so you can pop in at a time that is best for you
szavanna Resident: :)
Flavius Larnia: oh wow ... looks like quite a buddhist place
Flavius Larnia: meditative :)
Uns Mistwalker: but only at scheduled times (!)
szavanna Resident: :)
Zen Arado: yes 7am pm and 1 am pm
szavanna Resident: another thing about our chats is - that we stop for 90 seconds - every 15 minutes
Zen Arado: SLT
Flavius Larnia: why is that?
szavanna Resident: so don't get a fright if we stop talking lol
Zen Arado: that is the topic this week I notice
szavanna Resident: ah yes Zenji
Zen Arado: 'Time as shown up in the 90 second pauses'
Zen Arado: hmm

Mindfulness:

szavanna Resident: Zenji how would you explain the 90 seconds
Uns Mistwalker: to re-center ourselves
Uns Mistwalker: is what I wold say.
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: come back from mind dreams
Zen Arado: to present
Zen Arado: here and now
Zen Arado: not past
Zen Arado: not future
szavanna Resident: I think someone told me that at plum village you have a bell that goes off regularly
szavanna Resident: similar idea
szavanna Resident: but may be not there hmm not sure
Flavius Larnia: i see ... and what do you do in those 90 seconds?
Uns Mistwalker: (i bet there's an app for that)
Zen Arado: oh yes
Zen Arado: good question Flavi
Uns Mistwalker: well, at the best of times.... just breathe.
szavanna Resident: San going?
Zen Arado: breathe is a good one
Zen Arado: breath
Zen Arado: breathe is the verb?
szavanna Resident: brb :)
Uns Mistwalker: yes.
Santoshima Resident: sitting
Flavius Larnia: yes, breath is the air that comes out of your mouth when you breathe :)
Zen Arado: just a point of focus
Zen Arado: and it gets you into your body away from your mind and thinking
Flavius Larnia: but i am my mind, how can i get away from what i am? :P
Zen Arado: a big part of MBSR
Zen Arado: mindfulness based stress reduction
Zen Arado: is doing a body scan
Uns Mistwalker: your mind.... is not ALL you are.
Zen Arado: it makes you focus on each body part in turn
Flavius Larnia: maybe so, i'm not able to tell
Zen Arado: but we are so mind oriented in our societies aren't we?
Zen Arado: all ady long...think think think
Zen Arado: sorry for typos
Uns Mistwalker: well, some studies show that certain kinds of physical sensation are not processed by the brain.....but get handled in the spinal column.
Flavius Larnia: well yes, your conscious self is only thought to be the neocortex
Zen Arado: yes and the stomach thinks
Zen Arado: and the heart they say
Uns Mistwalker: right.
Zen Arado: we make a dualism between mind/body
Flavius Larnia: which is the top layer of your brain, the most recently evolved ... by far the majority of thinking and regulation of your body happens in the subconscious older parts of the brain
Zen Arado: descartes started that :)
Uns Mistwalker: So mindfulness work, stretches the boundary of awareness.
Flavius Larnia: oh i am not a dualist :)
szavanna Resident: back :)
Uns Mistwalker: see for example, Dan Seigal's work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiyaSr5aeho
Zen Arado: some Eastern societies don't make this distinction I read
Zen Arado: it is heart/mind
Zen Arado: wb Sunji
szavanna Resident: ty Ji-s ;o)
Flavius Larnia: hi sunji
szavanna Resident: hi Flaviji ;D
Zen Arado: but we divide everything up don't we?
Uns Mistwalker: i sure do.
Zen Arado: heh getting into non dualism again
Flavius Larnia: probably what they mean by heart is the underlying emotional input, which is not directly controlled by us
szavanna Resident: listens :)
szavanna Resident: heart/mind hmm
Zen Arado: or they just see us as all one organism
Uns Mistwalker: pinky-toe mind!
Zen Arado: so much going on we have no conscious control over
Zen Arado: isn't it?
Flavius Larnia: i think that once you start to get into metaphysical debates it is really hard to know anything for certain, regardless how you divide the world
Zen Arado: true Flavi

Zen Arado: that's why I gave up philosophy
Zen Arado: why am I talking so much?
Zen Arado: hmm
Uns Mistwalker: what interests me about mindfulness....
Zen Arado: yes uns?
Uns Mistwalker: is that it is NOT metaphysical.
Zen Arado: ha yes
Flavius Larnia: what do you mean by mindfulness?
Zen Arado: sensational:)
Uns Mistwalker: incredibly empiracal.
Uns Mistwalker: well, one way I've heard it put.
Uns Mistwalker: is that mindfulness is attending to the present moment, without judgement.
Zen Arado: yes just attending to the sensations and not making a story about them
Flavius Larnia: what does that mean? i always attend to the present moment
szavanna Resident: no opinions
Uns Mistwalker: well, for example Flavi.....
Uns Mistwalker: we are talking, here together.....and I am being kinda present.....
Uns Mistwalker: but I notice another part of my mind making a story....
Zen Arado: we immediately make up stories about everything don't we?
Zen Arado: yes
szavanna Resident: °͜°
Uns Mistwalker: oh? does my new friend Flavi enjoy this? Will she like to be here more? Is she comfortable?
Flavius Larnia: yeah i like debating these things :)
Zen Arado: yes and wondering where she is from
Flavius Larnia: yes i don't think we can avoid making stories
szavanna Resident: and what kind music she likes
Uns Mistwalker: all that.... takes me into my opinions and judgments, and past experiences.....and away from just being with you all, in the moment.
Flavius Larnia: i mean your brain will do it even if you don't want to
szavanna Resident: ;p
Zen Arado: but at least we can step back and believe all of them

Origins:

Flavius Larnia: where i am from: live in london, born in eastern europe
Zen Arado: not believe
Uns Mistwalker: not believe!
Zen Arado: drat
szavanna Resident: oo really
szavanna Resident: I am hungarian
szavanna Resident: °͜°
Uns Mistwalker: Zen is having issues with his dualisim today.
Zen Arado: his bad typing :)
szavanna Resident: °͜°
Uns Mistwalker smiles.
Flavius Larnia: magyar hehe, neighbouring country :)
Zen Arado: should use voice recognition
szavanna Resident: oo where from Flavi
Zen Arado: my hands are very weak
Flavius Larnia: slovenia
szavanna Resident: °͜°
Zen Arado: Wub was from near there?
Zen Arado: I live in N.Ireland
Zen Arado: near Belfast
Flavius Larnia: oh that's nice ... i spent a summer in ireland, dublin though
Zen Arado: heh scared to go North?
Zen Arado: :)
Flavius Larnia: hehe :)
Flavius Larnia: not so much
Flavius Larnia: had a summer project based in dublin
Flavius Larnia: when an undergrad
Zen Arado: it is a very pretty place but people don't realise that
Zen Arado: I see
Flavius Larnia: yeah lots of people are scared because of the terrorist attacks and so
Zen Arado: Dublin is nice too
Uns Mistwalker: (brb)
szavanna Resident: hb :)
Zen Arado: nice Guinness
Flavius Larnia: dublin feels a lot like london
Zen Arado: yeh it's big
Flavius Larnia: to a foreigner
Zen Arado: Belfast is smaller
Zen Arado: population went down
Zen Arado: most places it goes up
Flavius Larnia: oh ... it's a shame
Zen Arado: we had few immigrants too for years
Zen Arado: getting lots now
szavanna Resident: really
Zen Arado: lots of Polish
szavanna Resident: zulus?
Zen Arado: no Hungarians though
szavanna Resident: ;p
Zen Arado: :)
Zen Arado: keep them out
Zen Arado: :)
szavanna Resident: hehe
Flavius Larnia: i am going to hungary next week :)
Zen Arado: I have polish friend
szavanna Resident: oo really
Flavius Larnia: mhm, budapest ... maybe balaton
szavanna Resident: what will you do there?
Flavius Larnia: my bf is hungarian
szavanna Resident: haven't been there for hmm 13 years
szavanna Resident: ah ok ;D
Flavius Larnia: do you miss it?
Zen Arado: don't you miss it Sunji?
szavanna Resident: not really
Zen Arado: never get homesick?
szavanna Resident: no
szavanna Resident: strange
szavanna Resident: I love africa
Zen Arado: even go back for a visit?
szavanna Resident: hmm may be - but so expensive
Zen Arado: yeh
szavanna Resident: no family there really
Zen Arado: long way
szavanna Resident: so it will be strange to go back
Zen Arado: Africa is BIG
Flavius Larnia: your family moved away?
szavanna Resident: almost like visiting a new country
szavanna Resident: no parents
szavanna Resident: and bro is very distant
Uns Mistwalker: in a way, we can never go back....anywhere.
Zen Arado: I was away 8 years
Zen Arado: true
szavanna Resident: long time Zenji
Zen Arado: never the same river twice
szavanna Resident: :)

Zen Arado: I would like to go back to Australia for a visit
Zen Arado: but it has changed probably
Zen Arado: since 69 :)
szavanna Resident: °͜°
Flavius Larnia: zen, just out of curiosity, do you have a reply ready and finger on enter for the silence period to end? :)
Zen Arado: heh no
Uns Mistwalker: I do.... sometimes!
Uns Mistwalker: if i can't help it!
Flavius Larnia: hehe :)
Zen Arado: I was typing when bell rang
Zen Arado: and just enetr when it rings again
szavanna Resident: yes we do that
szavanna Resident: ;p

Mindfulness meditation:

Flavius Larnia: so this mindfulness, how do you know when you are being mindful?
Uns Mistwalker: that is such a good question.
Uns Mistwalker: because if you think about whether you are being mindful, you aren't being mindful!
Zen Arado: when you stop wondering if you are being mindful :)
Zen Arado: was watching an Eckhart Tolle video
Zen Arado: he talks about that
Zen Arado: how our minds keep saying,,,but what about this,...that...
Zen Arado: etc
Flavius Larnia: i see ... how about retrospectively, can you tell looking back "aha, taht was the time when i was being mindful"
Zen Arado: think the mind is still sneakily trying to get into the act though:)
szavanna Resident: the one where they are sitting on the park bench?
Zen Arado: yes Sunji
Flavius Larnia: it's like trying to stop thinking
Flavius Larnia: you are like "i am not thinking now ... damn"
Zen Arado: yes ,,you can't
Zen Arado: but if you kindof draw back from it and observe it slows down
Zen Arado: as in meditation
Zen Arado: but I don't understand meditation
Flavius Larnia: me neither, but i read it has good mental effect
Zen Arado: the more I do it the less I understand
Zen Arado: and maybe that is good
Uns Mistwalker grins. I think so, Zen.
Zen Arado: I just sit quietlt now
szavanna Resident: :)
Zen Arado: just do nothing
Zen Arado: that os sooo difficult for me
szavanna Resident: me too
Uns Mistwalker: yes..... me too
szavanna Resident: ;p
Zen Arado: want to get onto next thing
Zen Arado: so much to do
Zen Arado: busy busy busy
Zen Arado: so stupid
szavanna Resident: very
szavanna Resident: @@
Uns Mistwalker: our lives tend to be so full, of people, of places, of things......so just clearing space and making time.....can be such a relief.

Why?

Zen Arado: when I am on deathbed I will think...why?
Flavius Larnia: yes, that is one of the top regrets
Flavius Larnia: there was a study recently on people's regrets on death bed
Zen Arado: yes
Flavius Larnia: working too much was number one or two
szavanna Resident: I won't regret being busy
szavanna Resident: as long as I am busy with tne right things
Zen Arado: abd they all wished they had spent more time at the office....not :)
Zen Arado: true San
Flavius Larnia: but then again, living your whole life so that you don't regret anything in that one moment, not sure that's the best choice either
Zen Arado: but I make things so important
Zen Arado: yeh true too Falvi
Zen Arado: Flavi
Zen Arado: I don't think I have much choice
Zen Arado: I am predisposed to do certain things
Zen Arado: by my iterests, abilities disabilities
Zen Arado: upbringing
Zen Arado: education
Zen Arado: so many factors
Zen Arado: culture where I live
Zen Arado: friends influence
szavanna Resident influences Zenji
Flavius Larnia: what do you feel you are predisposed to do?
szavanna Resident: ;o)
Zen Arado: Sunji makes me do music things
Zen Arado: :)
szavanna Resident: yaya
Zen Arado: they are partlt unconscious
Zen Arado: but when I decide to do something all those factots decide what I want to do
Zen Arado: so though I think I make a choice...

Uns Mistwalker: I believe that SL elicits certain kinds of behaviors disproportionately as well
Flavius Larnia: yeah, i mean i view that your conscious brain just optimizes the way you feel, trying to feel good basically, while your unconscious old brain decides how you will feel ... so at the end, you are more of a reaction to the unconscious than you are an actual free will, and that is itself a reaction to the outside world and to its own structure... so at the end, i have trouble seeing where free will could come in at all, although it's hard to know for sure
Zen Arado: yes Uns..another echelon of influences
Santoshima Resident: ... breakfast ... { please excuse me ~ bfn}
Zen Arado: agree Flavi
Flavius Larnia: bye san
Uns Mistwalker: bye Sa
Zen Arado: free will is a philosopher's concept
Uns Mistwalker: san
Zen Arado: byee San
Zen Arado: ty for coming
Flavius Larnia: what kind of behaviours do you think sl elicits uns?
Uns Mistwalker: well, the most obvious are behaviors arising from the mid-brain....
Zen Arado: sex? :)
Uns Mistwalker: shall we say, libidinous behaviors.
Uns Mistwalker: yes.
Uns Mistwalker: and I think that to a certain extent....that is somewhat determined by market forces.
Zen Arado: but isn't sex a startup driver of lots of things?
Uns Mistwalker: People saw what could sell, and that aspect of things has been developed.
Uns Mistwalker: Certainly, Zen..... it is just life-energy.
Zen Arado: remember first photographs were of naked ladies even
Uns Mistwalker grins.
Flavius Larnia: really?
Zen Arado: then more sophisticated behaviour moves in
Uns Mistwalker: yup.... and graphics-processing advances have had a lot to do with trying to be able to watch porn.
Zen Arado: the SL wild west subsides
Zen Arado: peaceful settlers move in
Zen Arado: :)
Uns Mistwalker: Zen, there was a professor here in sl who noted that the development of Zindra.... the adult continent.....represented a kind of layering of the the sl world....much like we have a cortex layered over the midbrain.
szavanna Resident: back - again :)
Flavius Larnia: was sex the first thing that came to sl?
Zen Arado: yes?
Uns Mistwalker: welcome, Sunji.
szavanna Resident: ty :)
Zen Arado: wb Sunji :)
Flavius Larnia: wb
Uns Mistwalker: Not sure, Flavi.
Uns Mistwalker: bet it was pretty early on.
Zen Arado: thinks back....hmm
Uns Mistwalker: but the sexual aspects of sl, had to be tamed, else corporations and educational institutions would not be comfrotable....
Zen Arado: :)
Flavius Larnia: i think a lot of those institutions quit sl
Uns Mistwalker: so they pushed it (kind of ) onto one continentent.
Uns Mistwalker: Yes.
Flavius Larnia: maybe when you can put a gear on your head and make immediate response to the world and receive it straight into your brain they will come back
szavanna Resident: I think with time universities can have their own SL-s
Uns Mistwalker: hehehe
Uns Mistwalker: yes.... I don't know much about it.... but there is the open-sim project.
szavanna Resident: a monk from here set up his own metaverse
Zen Arado: the Singularity
szavanna Resident: lol sorry not sure what you were talkng about
szavanna Resident: ;D
Zen Arado: when you can upload your mind into a virtual reality?
Flavius Larnia: well not necessarily upload
Flavius Larnia: just interact with a virtual reality directly
Zen Arado: Kurtsweill idea
szavanna Resident: omg ;o)
Zen Arado: transhumanism
Uns Mistwalker: the google spectacles.
Zen Arado: he yes
Flavius Larnia: yeah ... i mean not sure if you saw this ted talk
Uns Mistwalker: step by step.
Zen Arado: seen anyone use them yet?
Zen Arado: in RL?
Uns Mistwalker: nope.
Flavius Larnia: they already have it one way, for inserting information into a computer system
Uns Mistwalker: which one Flavi?
Zen Arado: me neither
Flavius Larnia: let me see if i can find it
Flavius Larnia: http://www.ted.com/talks/tan_le_a_he...rainwaves.html
Uns Mistwalker: See also, if you all are interested in it....
Zen Arado: wow ty Flavi
szavanna Resident: googling ...
Uns Mistwalker: Alone Together, by Sherry Turkle.
szavanna Resident: Transhumanism (abbreviated as H+ or h+) is an international cultural and intellectual movement with an eventual goal of fundamentally transforming the human condition by developing and making widely available technologies to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities.[1] Transhumanist thinkers study the potential benefits and dangers of emerging technologies that could overcome fundamental human limitations, as well as study the ethical matters involved in developing and using such technologies. They predict that human beings may eventually be able to transform themselves into beings with such greatly expanded abilities as to merit the label "posthuman".[1]
Uns Mistwalker: thanks, flavi!
Flavius Larnia: np
Zen Arado: I did some kind of session on that Sunji
szavanna Resident: yes I remember
Zen Arado: still have the book
Flavius Larnia: exactly sunji, also it could be that machines will overtake humans and we simply enjoy life while they cater to our whims :)
Zen Arado: interesting
Zen Arado: supposed to be the way it should have been now
Zen Arado: with automation but it didn't happen
Flavius Larnia: it takes time
Uns Mistwalker: yes, hehe.... like artificial intelligence.... always around the corner
Zen Arado: computers actually seem to create more work?
Flavius Larnia: we''re not there yet :)
szavanna Resident: where are we rushing to?
Zen Arado: yeh maybe not
szavanna Resident: hmm
szavanna Resident: scratches head

Zen Arado: not sure I want to be there :)
Flavius Larnia: well you always have a choice of not using the technology i guess ... although i suppose it might leave you disadvantaged, but i certainly hope and think there will be options for those who would prefer to not use the technology
Zen Arado: robots hmm
Zen Arado: but it will come...or not
Zen Arado: technology seems to drive us
Uns Mistwalker: what happens is that the meaning of concepts shifts....
Zen Arado: not the other way around
Uns Mistwalker: for example..."friend"
Uns Mistwalker: with robots, too our perceptions of them shift meanings.
Zen Arado: yes
Flavius Larnia: good point uns, could mean a lot of things
Uns Mistwalker: our brains are so good at making meaning, that the technology only has to be 'good enough' to engage the brain.
Uns Mistwalker: Consider the impacts of the animations in SL.
Zen Arado: mmm yes Uns
Zen Arado: wow
Flavius Larnia: hehe
Flavius Larnia: a robot bf ... wow, i never considered that
Zen Arado: or GF of course
Zen Arado: hmm
Zen Arado: good sci fi story material there
Flavius Larnia: was it as a joke?
Zen Arado: :)
Flavius Larnia: glad you like it uns :)
Flavius Larnia: oh ok hehehe ... funny, was he trying to make a point or just for fun?
Zen Arado: sounds fun anyway
szavanna Resident: I better go - getting too busy in RL
szavanna Resident: have a great evening :)
Zen Arado: yeh me too getting hungry
Zen Arado: byee Sunji :)
Zen Arado: ty for coming
szavanna Resident: see you all soon :)
Zen Arado: hugs
szavanna Resident: hugs :)
Zen Arado: nice to mett you Flavi
Zen Arado: ty for coming Uns
Zen Arado: byee