2013.07.31 07:00 - The Game of Life

The Guardian was Zen Arado, All comments are by Zen Arado. The session was held in Kira Cafe because of a region restart.

Zen (zen.arado): Hi Uns:)
Uns Mistwalker: Hi Zen.
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Maude :)
Uns Mistwalker: hello Maude
Zen (zen.arado): nearly forgot the time
Zen (zen.arado): was checking music
--  Maude  -- (dr42): SL has been screwing with me today. :(
Zen (zen.arado): oh?
--  Maude  -- (dr42): All sorts if inventory relatd flailures
Uns Mistwalker: hmmm....
--  Maude  -- (dr42): and my fingers are borked as well
Uns Mistwalker: hehe.
Zen (zen.arado): I noticed lately my inventory still loading
Uns Mistwalker: and you haven't baked for me,
Zen (zen.arado): looks ok today
Zen (zen.arado): maybe this new Sunshine thing
Uns Mistwalker: could be.
Zen (zen.arado): you live in the USA Uns?
Uns Mistwalker: yes. On the East Coast.... state of Vermont.
Zen (zen.arado): I see
Uns Mistwalker: actually... Vermont isn't on the coast...just East.
Zen (zen.arado): thought you lived in SA for a while
--  Maude  -- (dr42): Hmmm, I am leaving soon for Brattleboro....
Uns Mistwalker: are you!
Uns Mistwalker: Maude.... that is very near me.
Zen (zen.arado): Brattleboro?
--  Maude  -- (dr42): Yes.... Everybody's Books,
Uns Mistwalker: A great independent book store.
Uns Mistwalker: You have a new book?
--  Maude  -- (dr42): It is a town in Southeast Vermont, near where I live.
Uns Mistwalker: ah. We are neighbors I guess.
Uns Mistwalker: (first time that's happened to me in sl)
Zen (zen.arado): I have had lots of RL friends in here
Zen (zen.arado): but they never seem to stay
Zen (zen.arado): too busy in RL I guess
Uns Mistwalker: It isn't for everybody....and actually I have never been able to successfully communicate about it to people in rl that I know.
Zen (zen.arado): they say they don't have time to come here
--  Maude  -- (dr42): Uns, you know where Rt 119 ends?
Zen (zen.arado): it's like there is a mental block Maude
Zen (zen.arado): or Uns I mean
Uns Mistwalker: yes, there seems to be.
Uns Mistwalker: and sure, Maude... "Malfunction Junction"
Zen (zen.arado): it's like it doesn't register or something
--  Maude  -- (dr42): Get on 119, drive 50 miles.
Zen (zen.arado): I am on a musculat dystrophy forum on FB
--  Maude  -- (dr42): Zen, it was a terrible intersection until they installed a traffic light.
Zen (zen.arado): a woman asked how she could meet people
Uns Mistwalker: SL is not a game.... but I think unless you like gaming...it is hard to understand the immersive quality.
Uns Mistwalker: really?
Uns Mistwalker: I think sometimes a demo would help.
Zen (zen.arado): I mentioned SL but ..no response from anyone
--  Maude  -- (dr42): The game of life is hard to play
 I'm gonna lose it anyway
 The losing card I'll someday lay
 So this is all I have to say
Zen (zen.arado): yeh we lose Maude
Zen (zen.arado): all
Zen (zen.arado): old age sickness and death get everyone
Zen (zen.arado): so we just enjoy what we have as best we can
Zen (zen.arado): (my philosophy)
Uns Mistwalker: It is true, Zen....and quite Buddhist....eh.
Zen (zen.arado): I practiced Zen for years Uns
Zen (zen.arado): still do a bit
--  Maude  -- (dr42): The sword of time will pierce our skins
 It doesn't hurt when it begins
 But as it works its way on in
 The pain grows stronger...watch it grin
Zen (zen.arado): maybe more non duality perspective now..if you need to label it
Zen (zen.arado): maybe Maude
Zen (zen.arado): I actually feel happier as I age
--  Maude  -- (dr42): It's from a song in the movie M*A*S*H
Zen (zen.arado): strange
Zen (zen.arado): but that happens statistically too I think
Zen (zen.arado): ah I see
Uns Mistwalker: Me too, Zen.
Zen (zen.arado): was that the series about the army in Vietnam or somewhere like that?
Uns Mistwalker: (happier as I age)
--  Maude  -- (dr42): "Suicide Is Painless"
Uns Mistwalker: yeah, Maude.
--  Maude  -- (dr42): Korea
Uns Mistwalker: i mean, yeah, Zen.
Zen (zen.arado): ok
Uns Mistwalker: shakes his head.
--  Maude  -- (dr42): It was a movie that had a TV series made from it.
Zen (zen.arado): it must be a confusing day
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Zen (zen.arado): it is Orgasm day apparently
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Uns Mistwalker: ?
Uns Mistwalker: declared by whom?
Zen (zen.arado): heard it on the radio
Zen (zen.arado): not sure
Zen (zen.arado): better not reveal my sources :)
Uns Mistwalker: hahaha.
Zen (zen.arado): I loved Zen retreats
Zen (zen.arado): oly thing I miss now
Zen (zen.arado): the wonderful silence
Zen (zen.arado): never get that anywhere else
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Riddle :)
--  Maude  -- (dr42): In honor of National Orgasm Day, July 31, The Daily Beast presents the best orgasm scenes in movies, from Meg Ryan’s diner shrieking to Jane Fonda’s ride in the Excessive Machine.
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Uns Mistwalker: there was a trappist monastary near me when I lived in NM.... they were silent except for devotional chanting.
Zen (zen.arado): not sure this is a good pab topic :)
Riddle Sideways: Hi, just came to watch restart
Uns Mistwalker: well..... orgasm and role play is probably a valid topic.
Uns Mistwalker: orgasm as a game?
Zen (zen.arado): do you miss it Riddle?
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Riddle Sideways: :)
--  Maude  -- (dr42): There is one in central mass that I have visited.
Zen (zen.arado): yeh they chant in Zen too
Zen (zen.arado): 3 daily services
--  Maude  -- (dr42): Spencer, I think.
Zen (zen.arado): prostrations and chanting
Uns Mistwalker: nods.
Zen (zen.arado): usually in Japanese
Zen (zen.arado): not very melodic

Games, laws and rules:

Zen (zen.arado): what is the topic this week
Zen (zen.arado): I have forgotten
Uns Mistwalker: something about games, isn't it, Riddle?
Zen (zen.arado): ah yes
Riddle Sideways: yes, games and gaming
Zen (zen.arado): we have used that one lots of times
--  Maude  -- (dr42): Yes, games, that was why I thought the quote about life being a game we lose was fitting
Zen (zen.arado): but life doesn't have rules?
Zen (zen.arado): or does it?
Riddle Sideways: who knows
Zen (zen.arado): to me a game has to have a structure and rules
Uns Mistwalker: but it is hard to get who to tel.
--  Maude  -- (dr42): life has rules. Thats why there is the death penalty.
Zen (zen.arado): a microcosm of life with artificial rules
Zen (zen.arado): hey I like that
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Zen (zen.arado): ah but human imposed rules?
Uns Mistwalker: me too.... though not necessarily a microcosm.... could be just a slice.
Riddle Sideways: the purpose of some games is to find out the rules
Zen (zen.arado): oh?
Zen (zen.arado): which?
--  Maude  -- (dr42): Well, if you exceed 286,000 km per sec, you get the death penalty.
Zen (zen.arado): but isn't that impossible?
Riddle Sideways: by some rules :)
Uns Mistwalker: i think of the sims on sl as independent games to some degree....some with more explicit rules, others with less explicit rules.
Zen (zen.arado): of course if you do some things something bad can result
Zen (zen.arado): but is that a rule?
--  Maude  -- (dr42): And the sandboxes have no rules?
Uns Mistwalker: we call gravity... a law.
Zen (zen.arado): physical laws are rules I guess
Zen (zen.arado): yes
--  Maude  -- (dr42): Fatal Attraction
Riddle Sideways: :)
Zen (zen.arado): is that a game Maude?
--  Maude  -- (dr42): Movie
Riddle Sideways: guidelines are sort of like loose rules-laws
Riddle Sideways: gravity can be a fatal attraction
Zen (zen.arado): I always seem to find words losing meaning when I talk about them and analyse them
Riddle Sideways: yep
Zen (zen.arado): everything becomes indeciherable
Zen (zen.arado): indecipherable
Riddle Sideways: and lost meaning with over deciphering
Zen (zen.arado): our precise words
--  Maude  -- (dr42): Got to run.
Zen (zen.arado): kk Maude
Zen (zen.arado): ty for coming
Zen (zen.arado): byee
Uns Mistwalker: there's a line from a novel I like....
Zen (zen.arado): yes?
Uns Mistwalker: "Does not everything depend upon our interpretation of the silence that surrounds us?"
Zen (zen.arado): yes good one
Riddle Sideways: like that
Zen (zen.arado): interpretation is us
Zen (zen.arado): interpreters of the universe
Uns Mistwalker: (Lawrence Durrell -- The Alexandria Quartet...book 1... Justine)
Uns Mistwalker: yes we are interpreters... almost can't help it.
Zen (zen.arado): checks book
Zen (zen.arado): very cheap on Kindle
Uns Mistwalker: have heard humans described as "meaning-making animals"
Zen (zen.arado): hmm
Zen (zen.arado): 884 pages
Zen (zen.arado): yeh

Conceptual maps and analogies:

Zen (zen.arado): we throw a conceptual map over reality
Zen (zen.arado): then are disappointed when our map has flaws
Uns Mistwalker: and then fight hard to exclude data that doesn't fit!
Zen (zen.arado): he he that too
Zen (zen.arado): I love these analogies
Zen (zen.arado): heard the one about life being like a cinema?
Riddle Sideways: sometimes they are many maps at the same time
Uns Mistwalker: yes, the trick is to maintain a light touch.
Uns Mistwalker: life like a cinema? haven't.
Zen (zen.arado): yes my maps is different than yours :)
Zen (zen.arado): imagine trying to navigate if everyone has a different map :)
Riddle Sideways: so we play the game with different maps
Uns Mistwalker: It is one thing I appreciate about the Islamic profession of faith...
Zen (zen.arado): well our lives as a self is played out like a story on the screen
Uns Mistwalker: yes, I can understand that....
Uns Mistwalker: but I worry a bit that people today (me included)...
Zen (zen.arado): but we are really the cinema and the screen...the space where the story takes place
Riddle Sideways: our lives in our movies
Uns Mistwalker: make ourselves the 'star' of our own dramatic presentation.
Riddle Sideways: how to get rid of all the drama queens :)
Uns Mistwalker: yes, Zen.
Zen (zen.arado): and we don't mind if something bad happens in the movie
Zen (zen.arado): we don't say 'that shouldn't happen'
Zen (zen.arado): but we try to fast-forward it sometimes
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Zen (zen.arado): or replay moments we liked :)
Uns Mistwalker: many end up replaying moments they didn't like.
Zen (zen.arado): anyway can you elaborate on Islam Uns?
Uns Mistwalker: oh... was just going to say...
Uns Mistwalker: La ilaha illa Allah
Zen (zen.arado): yes and it is a strange thing to do when yiu thnk of it Uns
Uns Mistwalker: is typically translateed.... There is no God but Allah....
Zen (zen.arado): yes
Uns Mistwalker: but a valid reading I like better is...
Uns Mistwalker: there is No conceptual framework that encompasses Reality.... only Reality itself.
Uns Mistwalker: no understanding i have about 'how it is' can ever be relied upon.
Zen (zen.arado): yes you can interpret reigions lots of ways too
Zen (zen.arado): religions
Zen (zen.arado): the God, Allah of these religions in unknowable really?
Uns Mistwalker: yes. Anyway, I think that seeing that our mental constructs can become 'false gods'...is interesting.
Zen (zen.arado): but theologians put definitions on them
Zen (zen.arado): yes
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Sunji :)
Uns Mistwalker: There is an extensive body of thought about it in Islam.
Sunshine (szavanna): hi Jis :)
Uns Mistwalker: Divided into what one Must believe is possible of Allah, what one must believe is impossible of Allah, and what follows from that.
Uns Mistwalker: anyway...
Riddle Sideways: hi

Role play as therapy:

Uns Mistwalker: to return to people replaying parts of their lives they don't like.
Uns Mistwalker: In sl... we have sims where women go to be raped. Many of these women have been raped in real life.
Uns Mistwalker: We understand this psychologically.... as an attempt to replay the situation... but THIS time... to retain control.
Uns Mistwalker: But it is a dangerous game. I think very often it simply results in being traumatised over again.
Zen (zen.arado): hmm yes
Uns Mistwalker: Still, better than replaying it in RL.... which often happens to survivors of Rape....they are FAR more likely statistically...to be raped again.
Zen (zen.arado): a bit like people making themselves face aversions to spiders or flying etc?
Uns Mistwalker: Yes, a bit like that.
Zen (zen.arado): there is a lot of power exchanges in sexual relationships isn't there?
Uns Mistwalker: oh yes...
Zen (zen.arado): some can't do without that I read
Uns Mistwalker: in all relationships actually.
Zen (zen.arado): so rape is the extreme
Uns Mistwalker: yes. Not even about sex.... Just power.
Zen (zen.arado): animals perform sex aggressively don't they
Zen (zen.arado): ?
Uns Mistwalker: (used as an act of War these days)
Riddle Sideways: not sure what to say about replaying the bad parts of life over and over
Zen (zen.arado): spiders destroy their mates
Riddle Sideways: life seems short to always be replaying the bad parts
Zen (zen.arado): yeh like beating a pillow or venting when angry
Zen (zen.arado): not sure that works
Uns Mistwalker: Riddle.... I think that these maps we make of our lives..... our conceptual frameworks...
Zen (zen.arado): it kind of keeps it going

Conditioning:

Uns Mistwalker: are conditioned by our past experiences....
Zen (zen.arado): deepens a pattern maybe
Uns Mistwalker: and very often constitute a narrative of 'how it is'.... that serves to oppress us.
Riddle Sideways: probably each map is a mod of the previous
Riddle Sideways: hi Allison
Uns Mistwalker: hopefully.... we modify. The problem is that we tend to exclude data that does not confirm to our narrative.
Zen (zen.arado): yes we are a result of conditioning and innate abilities etc I believe
Zen (zen.arado): yes...lost in our narrative and self definitions
Uns Mistwalker: Yes, Zen.
Sunshine (szavanna): listens :)
Zen (zen.arado): our stories of how it is...
Uns Mistwalker: Yes.
Uns Mistwalker: "no one loves me" "i will never amount to anything" "Deep down, I'm unlovable."
Zen (zen.arado): heh listening to songs is more fun :)
Sunshine (szavanna): ;o)
Uns Mistwalker: though we only hear the lyrics that conform to our narratives.
Riddle Sideways: waking to a clock radio telling the bad new da jour
Uns Mistwalker: And choose that way.
Zen (zen.arado): yeh maybe that is imprinted from parents too
Riddle Sideways: the first conceptual map was mom's
Uns Mistwalker: yes, Riddle.
Zen (zen.arado): Byron Katie is good at overcoming that tendency to believe the stories we constantly tell ourselves
Zen (zen.arado): 'Is that really true?'
Uns Mistwalker: There's a whole school of Therapy called "Narrative Therapy".... that is also used to work with oppressed peoples, like the aborigines in Austrailia.
Zen (zen.arado): her 'The Work' method
Uns Mistwalker: That mom provides the first map?
Zen (zen.arado): ah yes
Zen (zen.arado): they really are oppressed though?
Uns Mistwalker: /me shrugs. Depends on one's lens.
Uns Mistwalker: they don't fit too well into the dominant culture.
Riddle Sideways: must go. thanks all
Sunshine (szavanna): take care Riddle
Sunshine (szavanna): :)
Uns Mistwalker: thanks for coming, Riddle.
Zen (zen.arado): I remember that the Queensland Premier gave them 1$ per acre for their land and took it off them for uranium mining
Zen (zen.arado): byee Riddle
Zen (zen.arado): ty for coming
Zen (zen.arado): what I heard somewhere anyway
Uns Mistwalker: yes, I don't know details.
Uns Mistwalker: But our narratives are certainly powerful.
Uns Mistwalker: There is an educator in the united states that has shown that different socio-economic classes have different narrative structures to their lives.
Zen (zen.arado): and different expectations
Uns Mistwalker: Part of the problem in learning for children from generationally-impoverished households.... is that educational narratives are constructed to conform to middle class narrative structures.
Uns Mistwalker: yes, and different expectations.
Zen (zen.arado): like I never expected to be a doctor coming from a poor working class background
Uns Mistwalker: yes. an sense of horizon of possibilities.
Zen (zen.arado): though more equality now
Zen (zen.arado): or is there?
Uns Mistwalker: Well, this educator's point is very basic....
Uns Mistwalker: if yo come from a family that is impoverished....
Uns Mistwalker: back for several generations...
Uns Mistwalker: there is no such thing...
Uns Mistwalker: as a beginning....middle.... and end.... of a story.
Uns Mistwalker: it is always chaotic.
Uns Mistwalker: always something else happening....
Uns Mistwalker: so all kinds of ways that we think of as just being logical.... don't seem that way to children from these backgrounds.
Uns Mistwalker: And what they value is very different.
Zen (zen.arado): I thought you were going to say the low expectations and poverty continue down the generations
Sunshine (szavanna): I must go - take care both :)
Uns Mistwalker: the poverty continues.... but part of that is because they don't understand their education.
Zen (zen.arado): kk byee Sunji :0
Uns Mistwalker: goodbye Sunji. Be well.
Zen (zen.arado): ty for coming
Sunshine (szavanna): hugs :)
Zen (zen.arado): hugs
Uns Mistwalker: I should go be a real person for a while myself.
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Uns Mistwalker: Thanks for the conversation, Zen.
Zen (zen.arado): oh I though you were real :)
Zen (zen.arado): thank you too Uns :)
Zen (zen.arado): byee