2012.08.12 13:00 - Names and naming

The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Korel
Korel Laloix: Heya.... smiles
Korel Laloix: How you today?
Aphrodite Macbain: great. Please give me a second...
Korel Laloix: No worries... I am in and out myself.
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm moving between grids...
Aphrodite Macbain: crazy
Aphrodite Macbain: and 3 IMs
Aphrodite Macbain: ru working today?
Korel Laloix: No.. just have the house to myself.. so cooking stuff I want to and doing a few other things.
Aphrodite Macbain: nice. What are u cooking?
Korel Laloix: Have the AC off and the windows open... lovely
Aphrodite Macbain: Is it hot out there?
Korel Laloix: Pasta sauce... arrabiatta.
Korel Laloix: Everything from our garden though.
Korel Laloix: With some venison in it... not to heavy... lovely
Aphrodite Macbain: sounds fantastic
Aphrodite Macbain: how do you cook venison?
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Brucie babe
Bruce Mowbray: Like steak.
Aphrodite Macbain: it's quite dry though, isn't it?
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Aphy babe. Hey Kori babe!
Aphrodite Macbain: grins
Korel Laloix: This is ground stuff.
Bruce Mowbray: I love your I Ching presentation, Kori.
Bruce Mowbray: Then like ground beef.
Aphrodite Macbain: wish I could have been there.
Korel Laloix: Oh thanks.. trying to put the log together slowly.
Aphrodite Macbain: I will read it.
Korel Laloix: Glad you liked it... not sure I did what people needed or wanted though.
Bruce Mowbray: Excellent presentation of First American anthropology.
Aphrodite Macbain: what did you focus on Korel?
Bruce Mowbray: Reverence for Earth, Great Spirit, naming by her aunts, and more.
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Aphrodite Macbain: naming by her aunts? What do you mean Kori?
Korel Laloix: Was more just a linked up group of thoughts.
Korel Laloix: I had so many topics written down that I just went with what people brought up.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: ah so it was more of a discussion than lecture
Bruce Mowbray: Yeah, we kept hurling questions at Kori.
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Korel Laloix: A very very broad topic for such a short time.
Korel Laloix: And I am not really sure I did it justice...
Aphrodite Macbain: indeed
Bruce Mowbray: You did an excellent job for the time you had, Kori.
Korel Laloix: I tried to put together some perspectives of notable difference.
Korel Laloix: But might have failed
Korel Laloix: I did make me reflect a bit though.
Korel Laloix: Some things I had not though about before.
Aphrodite Macbain: just planting new ideas is enough
Bruce Mowbray: I can only speak for myself, of course, but I found the whole hour to be very educational.

Korel Laloix:

Bruce Mowbray: Can you say a few words about your being named by your aunts, Kori?
Korel Laloix: I would have to think about that...
Korel Laloix: Very private.
Bruce Mowbray: Oh sorry!
Korel Laloix: I would have to ask them really.
Bruce Mowbray: But you did mention it at the I Ching group.
Korel Laloix: I did yes.
Korel Laloix: Well.. I can say this much.
Bruce Mowbray: I know that when I changed my own name -- at time of marriage -- it was very significant for me.
Korel Laloix: And then I will ask them.
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Korel Laloix: And I have changed my RL name as well.. but not for reasons associated with my heritage.
Aphrodite Macbain: so your given name in some way shapes your life and your future?
Bruce Mowbray: sets up a different vibration, yes.
Aphrodite Macbain: It has a sort of power?
Bruce Mowbray: apparently so, at least for me it did.
Korel Laloix: That is all I will say right now... not until I ask them.
Aphrodite Macbain: Nods. Makes sense
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you, Kori.
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks Kori

Zen Arado:

Aphrodite Macbain: How did you get your name Zen? Your RL name.
Zen Arado: you know there is a ceremony in Zen where they give you new names?
Aphrodite Macbain: ah yes when you become a monk?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I have heard of that, Zen.
Zen Arado: you sew a rakusu first
Zen Arado: takes ages
Aphrodite Macbain: sew?
Zen Arado: yep
Zen Arado: by hand
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, the robe, or whatever.
Aphrodite Macbain: an article of clothing?
Zen Arado: like a bib
Aphrodite Macbain: ah
Aphrodite Macbain: interesting,
Bruce Mowbray: I have heard of this, yes.
Aphrodite Macbain: you make who you are
Zen Arado: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ra...w=1472&bih=683
Aphrodite Macbain: do you get a pattern and material?
Zen Arado: if it isn't right the Zen teacher makes you do it again
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: made out of cheap material
Aphrodite Macbain: so accuracy and care is important from the get-go
Zen Arado: stitches represent rice paddies
Zen Arado: you get tuition from the Zen teacher to prepare you
Zen Arado: then there is a ceremony called'Jukai'
Aphrodite Macbain: for what Zen? Being a monk?
Zen Arado: where you take precepts
Zen Arado: promise to follow them
Aphrodite Macbain: and precepts are articles of belief?
Zen Arado: 16 in Zen

Aphrodite Macbain: or rules

Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: like "do not kill"
Zen Arado: steal etc
Aphrodite Macbain: like the 10 commandments
Zen Arado: then they give you a roll that dates back to the Buddha
Zen Arado: a lineage
Aphrodite Macbain: a lineage ? of whom?
Zen Arado: shows all the teachers before
Aphrodite Macbain: ah

Bruce Mowbray: http://www.sfzc.org/zc/display.asp?c...,136&pageid=33
Zen Arado: so I am in Suzuki's lineage through my teacher
Aphrodite Macbain: do you become a teacher too?
Bruce Mowbray: Suzuki founded the San Francisco Zen Center.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Zen Arado: no it's only a kind of lay monk
Aphrodite Macbain: bound by vows
Zen Arado: there is another where you become a Zen priest
Aphrodite Macbain: and at this stage you are given a new name
Zen Arado: ah yes
Zen Arado: teacher writes in on back of rakusu
Zen Arado: Taizan Doshin
Zen Arado: my names
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles
Aphrodite Macbain: when are they used?
Zen Arado: whenever you like I guess
Zen Arado: see some use them on Facebook
Zen Arado: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: When do you use them? Shall we call you Taizan?
Zen Arado: nah
Zen Arado: I'm not into Zen much these days
Zen Arado: can't get into zen center
Zen Arado: and can't go to their retreats any more
Aphrodite Macbain: :-(
Aphrodite Macbain: but u can still practice Zen Buddhism
Zen Arado: I like the non dual aspects of Zen
Zen Arado: not so keen on the hierarchy

Wol Euler: evening all
Zen Arado: Hi Wol...
Wol Euler: brb
Aphrodite Macbain: Wol we are talking about acquiring names

Bruce: Tom Kirdas

Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce - how did you acquire your names?
Bruce Mowbray: My wife and I changed our names at the time of wedding.
Aphrodite Macbain: both?
Bruce Mowbray: We took three letters from each of our last names...
Aphrodite Macbain: what a nice idea
Bruce Mowbray: and joined them together to make a "spiritual name"
Korel Laloix: Interesting thought.
Aphrodite Macbain: so what were you before?

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Kir -- one of the sounds of "god" (as in Kyrie eleison).
Bruce Mowbray: and "Das"
Bruce Mowbray: which is sanscrit for "servant."
Bruce Mowbray: So, "God servant."
Bruce Mowbray: Doesn't matter now what we were before.
Zen Arado: yes
Bruce Mowbray: We took d, i, and k from my former name
Bruce Mowbray: and s, a , and r from hers.
Bruce Mowbray: to form KIRDAS. . . my present name.
Aphrodite Macbain: and did you change back when you separated?
Bruce Mowbray: and when she and I were divorced, she went back to her former name.
Bruce Mowbray: so now I am the only Kirdas in America.
Aphrodite Macbain: obviously you didn't
Wol Euler smiles.
Zen Arado: really?
Aphrodite Macbain: It's a great idea
Bruce Mowbray: There is star Trek tribe -- the "Kirdas"
Bruce Mowbray: Kirda -- pluralized.

Zen Arado: there are over 5000 men with my name in America :)

Korel Laloix: I am the only person in the country with my last name as well.. but for far less interesting reasons.

Wol Euler

Aphrodite Macbain: Wol how did you get your names?
Wol Euler: Wol is the owl of Winnie the Pooh, and Eule is German for Owl
Korel Laloix: Sounds fun though.. and meaningful.
Korel Laloix: I respect that.
Aphrodite Macbain: :D
Wol Euler: "wol" was a reminder not to take myself too seriously
Aphrodite Macbain: my stepfather was called Wallie (Wolford)
Wol Euler: because Wol the character is very full of himself, likes to boast of his knowledge and explain things to everyone
Wol Euler: but he gets it wrong much of the time
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles
Zen Arado: sounds like me :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Aphrodite Macbain: no Zen
Wol Euler smiles.
Bruce Mowbray also smiles.
Aphrodite Macbain: you are not full of yourself
Wol Euler: most of us, probably, each in our own way
Aphrodite Macbain: nor is Wol
Wol Euler: oh you’d be surprised :)
Aphrodite Macbain: yes, I would  :-)

Aphrodite Macbain: we'll see when we decide on groceries to buy Wol
Bruce Mowbray wonders who else to be full of besides himself.
Zen Arado: I find people like that hard to stand....so I must be like that too
Wol Euler: I have the most monstrous ego. I'm so damned egotistical that I even exaggerate the size of my ego :)                                                                    
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Aphrodite Macbain: show off!

Zen Arado: like we see our faults mirrored in others
Zen Arado: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I get very irritated with absent minded people
Bruce Mowbray: Zen's point is excellent, though -- we see our own faults in our perceptions of others' supposed "faults."
Aphrodite Macbain: yes.
Aphrodite Macbain: it is what we are sensitized to disliking
Zen Arado: it's a good thing to check anyway :)
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: I think Jung called it "projection."
Zen Arado: not sure if it is always true
Zen Arado: yes
Bruce Mowbray: It is a sort of psychological defense mechanism.

Zen Arado: my names have meanings

Zen Arado: Taizan means peaceful mountain
Zen Arado: Doshin means way of trust
Bruce Mowbray: Wow, that's beautiful, Zen.

Zen Arado: 'do' always means way in Japanese
Zen Arado: ju-do

Aphrodite Macbain

Aphrodite Macbain: My avi’s name represents my equivocal self
Aphrodite Macbain: I wanted to be wildly exotic and provocative
Aphrodite Macbain: and called myself Aphrodite
Aphrodite Macbain: and then I felt embarrassed and gave myself my grandmother’s last name to balance things out and make my name more mundane

Bruce Mowbray: Ahh! Ye be a bonnie Scottish lassie, then!
Aphrodite Macbain: not so bonnie and only 1/4 scots
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Zen Arado: sweet as the heather
Aphrodite Macbain: aww
Zen Arado: the bonnie Scottish heather
Zen Arado: :)
Bruce Mowbray: I actually walked through a field of heather when I was in the Highlands.

Aphrodite Macbain: All my names balance themselves out - like Blissful Badger - remember her?
Bruce Mowbray: very sweet, indeed.
Bruce Mowbray: And Burly.
Wol Euler: was that you?
Aphrodite Macbain: Burly Mothman :-)
Bruce Mowbray: oooops.
Aphrodite Macbain: yup
Bruce Mowbray: sry, Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: no worries. I don’t let Burly out much any more except in the 18th c sim
Wol Euler: heheh

Bruce Mowbray: Yeah, I don't let Io Larkspur out either.

Zen Arado: did you find your cat Aph?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes, thanks Zen
Zen Arado: ah good
Aphrodite Macbain: He was cowering in the basement behind a door
Bruce Mowbray: SMUDGE!!!!
Bruce Mowbray: The cat came back!!!!
Aphrodite Macbain: the very next day
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Aphrodite Macbain: and I thought he was a gonner
Aphrodite Macbain: silly smudge

Bruce Mowbray: Time for meditation.
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder if Bertram is doing his mediation today
Wol Euler: yes, just sent out the notice
Aphrodite Macbain: He usually IMs
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, just received a notice.
Wol Euler: goodnight to all who aren't coming
Aphrodite Macbain: ah just got it now.
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you everyone.
Wol Euler waves.
Korel Laloix: Ciao.
Zen Arado: byee
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Kori. Hugs and thanks for sharing.
Aphrodite Macbain: Take care
Korel Laloix: Ciao