2012.08.27 07:00 - Traces of Being

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal...

Agatha Macbeth: Hello Liz ♥
Eliza Madrigal: Agatha! Well hello :))
Agatha Macbeth: How are we?
Eliza Madrigal: :) Have a smaller question?
Agatha Macbeth: How are you?
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Agatha Macbeth: If that's small enough....
Eliza Madrigal: Am ok, thanks. On holiday?
Agatha Macbeth: Yep (yay)
Agatha Macbeth: On your own?
Eliza Madrigal: yay indeed
Eliza Madrigal: well no, you are with me
Agatha Macbeth: This is true
Eliza Madrigal: kids are on a sort of holiday also, thanks to the storms
Agatha Macbeth: Storms?
Eliza Madrigal: yes Tropical Storm Iaasac
Eliza Madrigal: it has passed us now but we are still in (sloppy) storm bands
Agatha Macbeth: OMG
Agatha Macbeth: You get the Carribean stuff there don't you?
Eliza Madrigal: we get everything, hah...
Agatha Macbeth nods
Eliza Madrigal: well, not snow and sand storms... so I take that back
Agatha Macbeth: Think I'd prefer a snowstorm to a hurricane
Eliza Madrigal: a light hurricane is okay... although it is still mysterious, can intensify quickly or contain tornadoes
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
Agatha Macbeth: Gone with the wind
Eliza Madrigal: whoooooosh
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :)
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Bleu :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza, Agatha :)

Eliza Madrigal: I guess we didn't really narrow down the topic of "shadows"... wonder where to begin with that now
Agatha Macbeth: Big shadows or small ones? :p
Eliza Madrigal: am going to make a better practice of not blurting out possible topics
Eliza Madrigal: hahah Aggers <3
Bleu Oleander: how about shadows as traces
Eliza Madrigal: :D
Bleu Oleander: traces of being
Eliza Madrigal: traces of being.... am intrigued....
Agatha Macbeth: Oh interesting

Bleu Oleander: remember the shadow portraits from grade school?
Bleu Oleander: where they would trace your shadow?
Agatha Macbeth: I've seen shadow theatres
Bleu Oleander: and cut it out
Eliza Madrigal: ooooh yes
Agatha Macbeth: Ah, right
Bleu Oleander: somehow was you
Eliza Madrigal: just the edges

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: shadow theater too
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: its amazing how much more "real" sl becomes when you add shadows
Bleu Oleander: dynamic shadows
Eliza Madrigal: this is true... otherwise one feels to be in flatland
Agatha Macbeth: I always think of them as kind of spooky
Bleu Oleander: validates the realness in some ways
Eliza Madrigal: indeed
Eliza Madrigal: spooky Aggers?
Bleu Oleander: shadows show movement in the world
Agatha Macbeth: Mm, yes
Bleu Oleander: interaction
Bleu Oleander: with light source

Agatha Macbeth: I remember being scared by one as a kid
Bleu Oleander: me too
Agatha Macbeth: One of my earliest memories
Eliza Madrigal: ooh yes... tree branches through windows
Bleu Oleander: dancing shadows on my wall :)
Eliza Madrigal: it is?
Agatha Macbeth: Didn't comprehend what a shadow was....too young :p
Eliza Madrigal: mmmm yes that's something to see
Bleu Oleander: right seemed real in themselves
Bleu Oleander: hi Zen
Agatha Macbeth: Strange how one's perspective alters as you get older

Agatha Macbeth: Hello zenny
Bleu Oleander: Zenny ... funny
Zen Arado: Hello all
Agatha Macbeth smiles
Eliza Madrigal: the park near my daughter's school is a shadow playground ... the patterns made are amazing, seeming messages in themselves
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
Agatha Macbeth: (BRB kitchen)

Eliza Madrigal: you made an interesting comment about foreshadowing yesterday, Bleu
Bleu Oleander: I did?
Eliza Madrigal: when Aph brought up "endings"
Bleu Oleander: oh yes, shadows foretelling endings?
Bleu Oleander: a sense of what remains after endings perhaps
Eliza Madrigal: yes.... one way in which a novel also becomes more 'real'.... shadow of the future onto the past, vice versa
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Zen Arado: /
Bleu Oleander: as in "was a shadow of his former self"
Eliza Madrigal: mmmm
Zen Arado: shadow of the past onto the future you mean?
Eliza Madrigal: in a novel it may be vice versa, or perhaps Luci would point to premonistic dreams or intuitions
Bleu Oleander: shadows "loom" ... always liked that word :)
Agatha Macbeth: Back
Bleu Oleander: wb
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Zen Arado: wb Ags
Eliza Madrigal: haunting
Bleu Oleander: yes

Zen Arado: yeh dreams only
Agatha Macbeth: A loom is something you weave on....interesting
Zen Arado: since neither exist
Bleu Oleander: yes interesting
Eliza Madrigal: well I think they do.... perhaps one kind of synchronicity
Agatha Macbeth: Wonder what the connection is (if any)
Eliza Madrigal: a 'string' that shows up in one's life, or one notices
Zen Arado: past or future I mean
Eliza Madrigal: ah
Agatha Macbeth: The weaver's tale
Zen Arado: only exist in our minds
Bleu Oleander: we give the past and the future life in our memories
Eliza Madrigal: so the appearance of past and future and present
Zen Arado: imagination or memories

Agatha Macbeth: Like the three Fates spinning away
Eliza Madrigal: mmm say more please Agatha?
Agatha Macbeth: In Greek mythology the Fates weave our destiny
Agatha Macbeth: Like the Norns in Nordic myth
Bleu Oleander: those Greeks were so creative!
Agatha Macbeth: Oh yes, they didn't just muck about with caves :p
Bleu Oleander: haha
Eliza Madrigal: could they be consulted?
Zen Arado: hmm I was just trying unsuccessfuly to put colored text onto Greek relief
Agatha Macbeth: Pythagoras was an amazing fella
Bleu Oleander: so more shadows there :)
Bleu Oleander: in caves
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Agatha Macbeth: Shadows on cave walls, yes
Zen Arado: black and white shadows

Bleu Oleander: I wonder when people first started to mention shadows
Zen Arado: Plato's cave...all we see are shadows
Bleu Oleander: Plato was probably one of the first
Bleu Oleander: shadows as a trace of being
Bleu Oleander: somehow in the space between being and non-being
Eliza Madrigal: dimension
Agatha Macbeth: Like the space between words
Bleu Oleander: shadows point to being

Zen Arado: Hi Yaku
Bleu Oleander: hi Yaku
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Yaku :)

--BELL--

Agatha Macbeth: Hello yak
Bleu Oleander: Yakky :)
Zen Arado: Hi Szvaji :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi szavanna
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Szavanna :)
Bleu Oleander: szaji !!!
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Sza :D
Agatha Macbeth: Ji whizz
Eliza Madrigal: (incoming text)

Eliza Madrigal: From the Right Tools theme session:
Eos Amaterasu: I'd be interested in creating some actual awareness lab instruments :-)
Eos Amaterasu: but I think those are subtle structures of attention
Eos Amaterasu: until you realize and start running into the ways you are already holding yourself through such subtle structures of attention
Eos Amaterasu: is that catalogable?
Pema Pera: probably to some extent
Pema Pera: not the whole thing itself, but its shadow, its projection into words
Pema Pera: and projections do have the power to help others follow a similar path

Agatha Macbeth: Incoming!
Bleu Oleander: shadows
Eliza Madrigal nods.... and projections as tools... which is interesting
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: mostly when people talk about projections they are being negative
Bleu Oleander: hmmm
Eliza Madrigal: but think of Pema saying "the opposite of a great truth is also a great truth"
szavanna Resident: :)
Bleu Oleander: have always thought of language as a projection of thought
Agatha Macbeth: Must be good to put a positive projection on something

Eliza Madrigal thinks of the projections in Inception :)
Agatha Macbeth: Don't know it
Eliza Madrigal: when they were 'on' to tampering they turned on the person in the dream... looked at them suspiciously
Bleu Oleander: Inception the movie?
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Bleu Oleander: didn't see it
Eliza Madrigal: oooh goodness... everyone needs to see this film ^.^
Bleu Oleander: i know
Agatha Macbeth: Mais pourquoi?
Bleu Oleander: somehow missed it
Eliza Madrigal: I'll excuse you all early to go rent it :P
Bleu Oleander: haha :P
Eliza Madrigal giggles
szavanna Resident: ;p
Agatha Macbeth: I like old films
Bleu Oleander: not that old is it?
Eliza Madrigal: we took a retreat field trip, when in Windhorse, to go see it... because those who had, Maxine and Tarmel, kept referencing it in discussions
Zen Arado: movies are dreams too aren't they?
Agatha Macbeth: That's why I've never seen it :p

Zen Arado: why do we love to take life into a dream?
Zen Arado: we don't want to wake upI guess
Agatha Macbeth: Or a nightmare
Bleu Oleander: movies are storytelling
Eliza Madrigal nods
Zen Arado: we prefer life as a dream
Bleu Oleander: we are storytelling creatures
Zen Arado: it's nicer :)
Eliza Madrigal: pattern weavers
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zen Arado: takes the harsh edge off it
Eliza Madrigal: not sure that it does....
Eliza Madrigal: maybe gives a sense of place? being situated?
Zen Arado: day dreams..

Agatha Macbeth: Trouble is, if you knock off the hard edges there doesn't seem much else left!

Bleu Oleander: dreams can be very scary
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bleu Oleander: that was a very interesting interview with an author on storytelling
Zen Arado: but we like the feeling that life isn't as bad as that scary dream then
Eliza Madrigal: I enjoyed that a lot Bleu... do you have the link for others?
Bleu Oleander: http://www.virginiacampbellmd.com/
Eliza Madrigal: it could be seen (dreaming), in a way, a shadow life... shadow factory
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: a trace of reality
Agatha Macbeth: Shadowplay
Eliza Madrigal: mmm

Zen Arado: is waking up a seeing through dreams?
Zen Arado: seems to imply that
Bleu Oleander: waking up is adding more input from the senses
Eliza Madrigal: not sure... for me it throws the waking up into question
Zen Arado: also waking up from illusions that make us suffer?
Zen Arado: our bad dreams

Zen Arado: a dreamless reality might be better than we think

--BELL--

szavanna Resident: °͜° Zenji
Eliza Madrigal: a vision might be a vivid dream that breaks through when seemingly awake
Zen Arado: a nice safe comfortable cocoon of woven dreams
Bleu Oleander: seems dreams could help us learn and process memories
Zen Arado: or a chick in its egg
Zen Arado: a hard shell of dreams :)
Eliza Madrigal: the mystery for me is the difference between kinds of lucidity both in waking dreams and sleeping dreams
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Agatha :)
Eliza Madrigal: the dream "qualities"
Zen Arado: wb Ags
szavanna Resident: wb Agaji °͜°

Eliza Madrigal: in the interview Bleu linked to, they talked about how we tend to think of children playing a kind of la la make believe, but their narratives are often quite frightening
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Agatha Macbeth: They don't find them so spooky
Eliza Madrigal: yes they go for it...
Bleu Oleander: exactly
Zen Arado: visualizes early humans around their fires manufacturing first dreams to soften the harshness of their existence

Bleu Oleander: I'm reading an interesting book on dreams
Bleu Oleander: http://www.amazon.com/Dreaming-A-Ver...s=hobson+dream

Agatha Macbeth: Now we do it around pools
Zen Arado: maybe those are preparatory dreams
Zen Arado: stories as play
Eliza Madrigal: :) Agatha
Bleu Oleander: prepares us in some sense for future
Agatha Macbeth grins
Zen Arado: yep
Bleu Oleander: nice Aggers :)
Zen Arado: visualize the worst so it won't be so bad when it comes
Agatha Macbeth: TY :)
Zen Arado: escapist and preparatory stories
Eliza Madrigal: does it work?
Zen Arado: or just entertainment

Bleu Oleander: we take ourselves with us
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Zen Arado: a movies lets us escape from ourselves for a while though?
Zen Arado: or a good novel
Agatha Macbeth: True
Bleu Oleander: like a virtual world does
Zen Arado: can identify with hero
Agatha Macbeth: Also true

Bleu Oleander: like we identify with our avatars
Zen Arado: no, my av is me :)
Eliza Madrigal grins
Bleu Oleander: hahaha!
Agatha Macbeth: 'This *is* real life' :p
Zen Arado: I just type for him
Eliza Madrigal: I'm not sure where SL fits in the waking/dreaming spectrum
szavanna Resident: hmm yes what is sl ...
Bleu Oleander: not sure where RL does either
Bleu Oleander: haha
Eliza Madrigal: :))

Zen Arado: isn't the purpose of long meditation to see through our dreams and illusions?
Agatha Macbeth: We should call fox
Zen Arado: remove the usual absorbtion in them
Zen Arado: dreams as props
Eliza Madrigal: well, see the absorption

Bleu Oleander: but who is it that is "seeing through" our dreams?
Bleu Oleander: wait ... who's telling me this :)
Zen Arado: nobody...just a seeing
Bleu Oleander: who's seeing?

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: I feel it is like making room, not elliminating anything but being able to allow the patterns to take more open or varied courses
Eliza Madrigal: what I haven't figured out, is how to convince the others :P
Zen Arado: a spontaneous automatic happening
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Bleu Oleander: haha

Zen Arado: language makes us put an 'I' in there
Bleu Oleander: our sense of self makes us put an "i" in there
Zen Arado: that too
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: selves are so pushy....
Zen Arado: but sense of self is a process too?
Agatha Macbeth: I I I I I I like you very much...
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: all my selves are very pushy haha

Eliza Madrigal: wow amazing rains falling here
Bleu Oleander: ah started already?
Agatha Macbeth: There will come soft rains
Zen Arado: just the usual wet and windy here
Eliza Madrigal giggles at Bleu.... wonders what it would have been like to play in the sandbox with you all...
szavanna Resident: °͜° Liz
Bleu Oleander: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: Oh it has been more than a day now of intense gusts and winds
Zen Arado: but rain is a miracle too I guess
Bleu Oleander: you still have electricity ... the good news
Agatha Macbeth: I'll send Wol some
Eliza Madrigal: :) yes... powered up....
szavanna Resident: °͜°

Eliza Madrigal: well did we come to any conclusions? measureables? deliverables?
Bleu Oleander: so its the anniversary of Katrina
Bleu Oleander: one remembers ....
Agatha Macbeth: Possibles?
Zen Arado: hope not
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: katrina sure stirred up the shadows.... brought things to light....
szavanna Resident: Zenji °͜°
Bleu Oleander: yes, storm could be headed that way again
Zen Arado: would be nothing to talk about then
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: wrap ourselves in dreams again
Eliza Madrigal: parts of haiti are still just tented... now flooded from this storm

Zen Arado: to go and face the cruel world
Zen Arado: technocolor dream coat :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Agatha Macbeth: How's Joseph?
Eliza Madrigal: "let my people go"... oh wait... wrong story
Agatha Macbeth: Bit later
Bleu Oleander: haha
Zen Arado: Joseph's dreams
Zen Arado: his brothers got jealous
Zen Arado: he was so good at dream interpretation

Eliza Madrigal: a few like that in the bible.. daniel also...
Eliza Madrigal: 'writing on the wall' <--foreshadowing
Zen Arado: yeh
Zen Arado: Nebuchadnezzar
Eliza Madrigal: you really did teach Sunday School Zen :D
Zen Arado: :)
Zen Arado: not forgetting the loins
Zen Arado: lions
Zen Arado: oh:)
Eliza Madrigal: mustn't forget the loins....
Agatha Macbeth: I never forget the loins :p
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
szavanna Resident: what? lions?
Bleu Oleander: you taught Sunday school Zen?
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
szavanna Resident: ;p
Zen Arado: they Put Daniel in with the lions
Eliza Madrigal: ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
Eliza Madrigal: `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
Eliza Madrigal: (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
Eliza Madrigal: _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
Eliza Madrigal: (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' Grrrrrrrrrrrrr
szavanna Resident: hehe
Agatha Macbeth: Yes, he taught loins
Zen Arado: but they didn't eat him
Bleu Oleander: whoa
Agatha Macbeth: Mrawwwww...
Bleu Oleander: how did you do that so fast Eliza?
szavanna Resident: ;D

Zen Arado: and he walked through an oven too I think
Eliza Madrigal: quick draw
Agatha Macbeth: Nimble fingers
Bleu Oleander: you must have been fun in the sandbox too hehe
Eliza Madrigal: that was shadrac meshak and somebody...
Zen Arado: that's a boxer dog
szavanna Resident: hehe
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Zen Arado: not a lion :)
Agatha Macbeth: Abednigo
Eliza Madrigal: there ya go
Zen Arado: Shadrach Meshak
Zen Arado: he he Aga was listening at Sunday School

Eliza Madrigal: similar patterns and themes in all these tales
Agatha Macbeth: Yep
Zen Arado: gets a litttle prize :)
Agatha Macbeth: Yay
Eliza Madrigal: :)

     [apologies to Sza - had read Bleu as saying the following...]

szavanna Resident: i had no sunday school
Zen Arado: some coloures pencils :)
Eliza Madrigal: no Bleu?
szavanna Resident: hmm °͜°
Agatha Macbeth: Mine was late, it was on monday :p
szavanna Resident: ;p
Eliza Madrigal: off beat Aggers
Bleu Oleander: no Bleu ??
Agatha Macbeth: OW
szavanna Resident: monday school
Eliza Madrigal smiles.... no indoctrination, er... Sunday School?
Agatha Macbeth: Bleu monday
Bleu Oleander: ah yes I did have Sunday School
szavanna Resident: °͜°
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus has never experienced that
Bleu Oleander: you're lucky

Zen Arado: I'll start one :)
Bleu Oleander: haha
Agatha Macbeth: Sonntagschule? :p
Eliza Madrigal: I really loved it... never wanted to leave
Bleu Oleander: really?
Zen Arado: pab Sunday School
szavanna Resident: °͜° zenji
szavanna Resident: can we do fractals Zenji?
Eliza Madrigal: sugar cookies and lemonaide... sweet speeched older ladies...
Agatha Macbeth: Mandelbrots?
szavanna Resident: things like that
Zen Arado: nope

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: :) fractal felt boards
szavanna Resident: oh ;(
Bleu Oleander: never had the cookies and lemonaide :(
szavanna Resident: here is some lemonade : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtN1YnoL46Q
Agatha Macbeth: Lemon aid
Eliza Madrigal: oh now you've done it
szavanna Resident: ;o)
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Zen Arado: :)
Bleu Oleander: hahaha
szavanna Resident: hey ...got any grapesss
Agatha Macbeth: Quack
szavanna Resident: °͜°
Zen Arado: frowns at sza
szavanna Resident hides
Agatha Macbeth: with the lions
Bleu Oleander looks for the eject buttom :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: or the loins
szavanna Resident: buttom?
Agatha Macbeth: Bottom?
Bleu Oleander: button :D
szavanna Resident: ;D
Agatha Macbeth: Bum steer
Bleu Oleander: what ever
Eliza Madrigal: neverland

szavanna Resident: hehe what are we talking about?
Agatha Macbeth: Nevermind
szavanna Resident: hmm
Eliza Madrigal: :) bom bom bom bomp
Agatha Macbeth: Name that tune
szavanna Resident: bombombom
Zen Arado: some great stories in the bible
Eliza Madrigal: I'm not a country music fan but that dolly parton song is sweet... coat of many colors....

                [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7kTpJy9QlA ]

Agatha Macbeth: That's the one!
Bleu Oleander: some great stories not in the bible too
Eliza Madrigal: indeed :)
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: but it is fascinating to see which people leave out
Agatha Macbeth: Non-canonical as they say
Zen Arado: yep
Bleu Oleander: and also the ones they think are in the bible but aren't
Eliza Madrigal: yes!
Zen Arado: the Apocrypha
Bleu Oleander: and the ones added much later
Eliza Madrigal: yes what to do about all those "random" texts
Eliza Madrigal: much less all the women.. where'd they go
Bleu Oleander: the bible has an interesting and checkered past
Bleu Oleander: fascinating to read about actually
Agatha Macbeth: They were orchestrating behind the scenes as usual
Eliza Madrigal: ..checkered past... love that expression...
Eliza Madrigal: in the shadows
Zen Arado: or chequered :)
Bleu Oleander: that too
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Yakuzza Lethecus: hey xirana
Zen Arado: Hi Xiri :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Xirana
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Xiri
szavanna Resident: xiri °͜°
Eliza Madrigal: alas, time for me to help my son wrap up the homework he needed to finish
Agatha Macbeth: Hiya Xira :)
Eliza Madrigal: sorry to miss you Xiri
Bleu Oleander notices her art of being team arriving :D
Xirana Oximoxi: hello everyone:)
Xirana Oximoxi: yes:)
Eliza Madrigal: ah, spontaneous team meeting
Bleu Oleander: yes
Xirana Oximoxi: just arrived and I find you all still here:)
Zen Arado: byee Eliza
Agatha Macbeth: Spontaneous combustion
Agatha Macbeth: Take care Liz
szavanna Resident: oh Liz gone already
Xirana Oximoxi: bye bye Eliza, tc
Eliza Madrigal: bye friends, thank you so much for a nice holiday chat :)
Bleu Oleander: bye bye
Zen Arado: Hi Ari
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Ari dear
Eliza Madrigal: ah, rest of Bleu's team... wow
szavanna Resident: hugs Liz °͜°
Arisia Vita: :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Ari
Arisia Vita: greetings all
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
szavanna Resident: hi Ari °͜°
szavanna Resident: I see you °͜°
Bleu Oleander loves my team!
Arisia Vita: I see you
Eliza Madrigal: ((((((((((((( ))))))))))))))))
Agatha Macbeth: Baby
Zen Arado: listens for ideas :)
Bleu Oleander: haha
Xirana Oximoxi: thank you...we love Blleu too:))
Eliza Madrigal: Hi and Bye Ari, sorry to miss you too
Eliza Madrigal waves
Bleu Oleander: so team ... shall we depart?
szavanna Resident: byebyee all
Agatha Macbeth: I better be moving along too I guess
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
szavanna Resident: take care °͜°
Agatha Macbeth: Bye for now
Zen Arado: byee all
Bleu Oleander: bye all not on my team
Xirana Oximoxi: yes, when you like Bleu:)
Yakuzza Lethecus: well not everyone
Agatha Macbeth waves
Xirana Oximoxi: bye bye all:) have a nice day!