The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado.

Painting exhibitions:

Zen Arado: Hi Xirana :)
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Zen! I am trying to sit:)
Xirana Oximoxi: now!
Zen Arado: I'm setting up a little exhibition
Xirana Oximoxi: oh! wonderful..where?
Zen Arado: an Irish guy asked me
Zen Arado: Blink City :)
Xirana Oximoxi: will you do an opening?
Zen Arado: not sure
Zen Arado: he asked me to put a couple of paintings at his place
Xirana Oximoxi: well...you give me the LM anyway when it is ready:)
Zen Arado: turns out he wanted a lot
Xirana Oximoxi: :))
Xirana Oximoxi: you have enough wonderful paintings:)
Zen Arado: he seems to have plenty of room there
Xirana Oximoxi: are there other artists?
Xirana Oximoxi: or you alone?
Zen Arado: didn't look around much
Zen Arado: he wants to learn to paint himself
Xirana Oximoxi: I' ll visit:)
Zen Arado: tell him you paint and he might ask you to exhibit
Zen Arado: if you want to

Bringing babies into this world:

Xirana Oximoxi: I've started to teach Catalan at Virtlandis...and I have a student...but yesterday we have been discussion about the world and other matters... she/he told me it was not good to bring babies to this world because if you do you bring them here to have 'pain'...
Xirana Oximoxi: so...for her it was better to die!!!
Xirana Oximoxi: I've been quite upset..and have been talking about positive things we can also find in this world
Zen Arado: babies?
Zen Arado: ah to RL
Xirana Oximoxi: yes...a baby:)
Xirana Oximoxi: yes lol...to RL :))
Zen Arado: thought you meant SL
Zen Arado: :)
Zen Arado: I have heard this in Buddhism
Xirana Oximoxi: well.... I think she meant RL :))...but here there are people that has babies too:)) and play they dream
Zen Arado: yes
Xirana Oximoxi: what does buddhism say about pain and /life
Zen Arado: people who believe in reincarnation want to stop the endless births
Zen Arado: the idea is that you eventually become enlightened and escape rebirth
Zen Arado: because life is Samsara...ful of suffering
Xirana Oximoxi: well... I think she was talking in another sense...like if the best to do is to die to avoid pain..not to reincarnate again
Zen Arado: funny how e like to keep living though
Zen Arado: we
Xirana Oximoxi: welll...I will have to read about it...sounds a little like what she meant
Xirana Oximoxi: yes!
Xirana Oximoxi: that's good
Zen Arado: I think it is more in time Tibetan Buddhism
Xirana Oximoxi: in my view

Zen Arado: not Zen
Zen Arado: I think that birth and death are concepts we have been conditioned to believe in
Xirana Oximoxi: it's strange to have some kind of discussions when you don't know anything about the other person...she repeated several times the subject of not bringing babies to this world...at the end I was thinking maybe she has had problems with that...but if the other does not explain it impossible to guess
Zen Arado: they don't really exist
Xirana Oximoxi: I think we return to the earth...and we become worms and then butterflies and then a bird eat us...:))
Zen Arado: in my own personal case if I had been married I would have had to make a decision whether or not to bring a child into the world with muscular dystrophy
Xirana Oximoxi: and a human eat the bird:)
Zen Arado: although it would be a 50/50 chance whether the baby inherited my genes for the mothers
Zen Arado: yes we come from the earth and we return to the earth
Xirana Oximoxi: restart.:)
Zen Arado: oh restart
Xirana Oximoxi: let's go to kira?
Zen Arado: yes okay

Restart so moved to Kira:

Zen (zen.arado): oh I just checked my chat log to make sure it is recording properly
Zen (zen.arado): and I had to check the box for record and uncheck the box for putting timestamps on
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ok:)... and do you have to take the time and...yes
Zen (zen.arado): it seems okay now but I wonder why it changed
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): so, you uncheck this and that way you have the chat like when it is recorded?
Zen (zen.arado): usually you have to make sure it isn't adding timestamps
Zen (zen.arado): but it wasn't even recording today
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes... thanks, I was wondering if you did manually:)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): a lot of work:)
Zen (zen.arado): it takes a long time to remove the timestamps if you have to
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes:)

The 'Digitally Divided Self' book:

Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): how is your reading of the book about SL?
Zen (zen.arado): but usually firestorm I don't have any problems
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): or other virtual worlds
Zen (zen.arado): I used to have more problems with V3
Zen (zen.arado): I was reading more this morning
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I always use V3
Zen (zen.arado): V3 updates itself and start to add timestamps is a problem
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I have seen there's an offer to buy it...but I have not a kindle...so probably I can not read it
Zen (zen.arado): I think you can download the Kindle application to your computer
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ahh really?
Zen (zen.arado): without having to buy the gadget itself
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I will look for information about it
Zen (zen.arado): it is quite cheap, the Kindle version
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes...very cheap:)
Zen (zen.arado): I don't agree with many of the things this author says
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): it's also interesting to read the book to have a 'groud' to start discussions
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ground*
Zen (zen.arado): yes
Zen (zen.arado): 'Human relationships and direct contact, the most important elements in forming the personality, are more and more mediated by the Internet – where “friendships” can be established and ended by a simple click, and personal profiles, connections, and sites themselves can change, be born, and die capriciously. With this instability, it is difficult to develop authentic and long-lasting relationships which allow us to know ourself more deeply through interacting with others.'
 
 Quartiroli, Ivo (2011-09-27). The Digitally Divided Self: Relinquishing our Awareness to the Internet (p. 167). Silens. Kindle Edition.
Zen (zen.arado): The trouble is that there is some truth in what he says
Zen (zen.arado): but he is only half right
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): he is talking 'in forming the personality'
Zen (zen.arado): and it's as if we were helpless to the influence of the Internet
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): in this sense I can agree...
Zen (zen.arado): as if we can't be critical of it
Zen (zen.arado): or just use it as we need to
Zen (zen.arado): we don't have to become addicted
Zen (zen.arado): but maybe that's because I am older
Zen (zen.arado): maybe it has a worse effect on children
Second Life: Oona Ra is offline.
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes.... we are adult and we have our personalitly strogly formed:)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): but maybe for very young people it is different
Zen (zen.arado): but it is the same for television
Zen (zen.arado): and before that the movies
Zen (zen.arado): before that was radio
Zen (zen.arado): and comic books
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes.... I am sure there are studies about influence in young people...but if well used it must be also a good way to contact with friends and learn
Zen (zen.arado): the Victorians were worried about the effects of people reading Charles Dickens novels
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes:)) we are always afraid about new tools
Zen (zen.arado): Dickens novels were like a form of virtual reality :-)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): all novels are virtual realitlies:)
Zen (zen.arado): yes, we construct a different reality in our heads
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): in a different medium but also menatl
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): mental
Zen (zen.arado): the author merely guides us there by providing a description
Zen (zen.arado): so what's the difference between using words to do that and using visual media?
Zen (zen.arado): But perhaps more is done for us online
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes.... in my view the possibilities of computers and virtual worlds is that here you can also be active and interacting
Zen (zen.arado): we don't have to use our imagination so much?
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): more than with a novel or watching tv
Zen (zen.arado): But yes, we can interact with other people
Zen (zen.arado): I don't think this author has spent any time in second life
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): exactly:)
Zen (zen.arado): or any virtual reality, because he hasn't mentioned that much yet
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ahh or maybe he has come a few times
Zen (zen.arado): he talks more about Facebook
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): you get really involved with time...at least it has taken some time for me
Zen (zen.arado): about how people just use very short lines of text
Zen (zen.arado): and people aren't prepared to read a book
Zen (zen.arado): or even a long article
Zen (zen.arado): but I remember that I didn't write anything except in school when I was a teenager
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): well....we have also some studies made in Spain that show that people is not improving their skills in lecture
Zen (zen.arado): to listen to lectures?
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ahh no...sorry...I mean 'reading books '
Zen (zen.arado): To learn from lectures?
Zen (zen.arado): I see
Second Life: mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry) is online.
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): 'lectura' in Spanish = to read books :)
Zen (zen.arado): I was just thinking that I'm not very good at listening to people give lectures
Zen (zen.arado): 'lecture'means someone, usually a university lecturer, giving a talk
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I usually process better the information if I can read myself, but I like to go to some conferences too...
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): about literature, arts, ...specially classic authors
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): hi
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Boxy :)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): hi boxy!! :)
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): why here? escaped the restart?
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): you've found us:)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes:)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): is the land there again?
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): yep
Zen (zen.arado): some days it is quicker than others
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): xiri girl lits up the cafe with joy and beauty :)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): haha
Zen (zen.arado): last week it wasn't there for over an hour
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): thank you boxy...you too with your 'simpatía' :))
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): :)
Zen (zen.arado): il est tres sympatique
Zen (zen.arado): tres gentil
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): oui:))
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): simpatía= friendiness, charm
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :)

Korea movie:

mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): i've been watching a movie called the front line. about korean war.
Zen (zen.arado): like sympathetic
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I am sure Zen's French is very very good yet
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): well done. good battle scenes.
Zen (zen.arado): non
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I have not seen this film boxy
Zen (zen.arado): the Korean War is a forgotten war in many ways
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): it's a korean movie. i watch it with english subs.
Zen (zen.arado): Ah okay
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): zen, not for koreans, i think
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): you should learn Korean :)
Zen (zen.arado): a different perspective then
Zen (zen.arado): I think there were lots of British people involved in the Korean war
Zen (zen.arado): lots of people who had to do national service
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): apparently there was a hill that changed hands more than 30 times. it was an important strategic point during the truce talks.
Zen (zen.arado): conscription or draft, whatever they call it
Zen (zen.arado): oh?
Zen (zen.arado): is there still a country called Korea?
Zen (zen.arado): Hi yes North and South Korea
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): is the film based on historical facts or it is a documentary
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): well, in the western world it's usually meant south korea
Zen (zen.arado): it always has North or South appended now
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): xiri, the former
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes...still problems with noth korea..specially with the nuclear subject
Zen (zen.arado): that's where Gaya comes from
Zen (zen.arado): South Korea
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ok:)
Zen (zen.arado): Gaya doesn't come into second life any more :(
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): in the movie they show intrinsic connection between the two. enemies, but also one nation.
Zen (zen.arado): North Korea is a dictatorship isn't it?
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): think you can say that :)
Zen (zen.arado): It's run by a young man who succeeded lately
Zen (zen.arado): as far as I remember
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes...and wanted to build the nuclear energy (or bomb) and there has been discussions and negotiations with USA invloved to avoid it
Zen (zen.arado): when was the Korean war?
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes...but he has left the power to one of his sons..also dictator
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): early 50s
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): i'd like to see the two koreas unite
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): as do many koreans

North/South divides:

Zen (zen.arado): It's funny how many countries in the world have problems between the North and the South of the country
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes... I think there were a lot of families divided into each part...loosing comunication
Zen (zen.arado): Ireland for example
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): or east and west

Zen (zen.arado): I think it tends to be more a North South divide though
Zen (zen.arado): people in the North tend to be hard-working and industrious and the people in the South more easy-going and relaxed
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): that is also like this in Spain:)
Zen (zen.arado): even in the US a
Zen (zen.arado): yes and in Italy
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): the north more industrial and competitive
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): yes... maybe it's the climate thing
Zen (zen.arado): could be effects of climate
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): sure it is also related to climate
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I must go now...have a nice time both:) ..and see you soon! :-)
Zen (zen.arado): I often wonder why people go to live in cold northern countries
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): oh, xiri. i read that youth unemployment in spain reaches 50%. is it true?
Zen (zen.arado): kk thanks for coming Xirana :-)
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): oopps....so much?
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): yes, i was surprised
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I'll try to check this info boxy
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): doesnt' seem right
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I go now:)
Zen (zen.arado): youth unemployment is high in Britain also
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): ok, bye :)
Zen (zen.arado): byee
Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): tc :) thank for this nice time!! :)
Second Life: Xirana (xirana.oximoxi) is offline.
Zen (zen.arado): Spanish economy is in trouble
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): poor germany. everyone's hope is with them to save the eu.
Zen (zen.arado): economic problems seem to hurt youth employment most
Zen (zen.arado): Rich Germany you mean :-)
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): they're rich for a reason
Zen (zen.arado): they are expected to be bail everyone else out
Zen (zen.arado): because they are hard working and efficient
Zen (zen.arado): and clever
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): if spain, greece and alike would be more responsible and fiscally disciplined, it would not have happened.
Zen (zen.arado): yes, maybe an example of North/South again
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): spanish education minister signed an agreement recently to introduce the german educational model in spain
Zen (zen.arado): the South of Ireland has big problems too
Zen (zen.arado): you can introduce new systems but you can make people want to adhere to them :-)
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): ireland is so tiny - is there rally north and south? :)
Zen (zen.arado): ha it seems a big place to us :-)
Zen (zen.arado): don't forget the North of Ireland is part of Britain
Zen (zen.arado): the South is a different country
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): zen, re: spain. yes... eventually it's about culture. germans the way they are because they're germans. you can't simply transfer the model and expect to become germany in 10 years.
Zen (zen.arado): we are part of the GB team in the Olympics
Zen (zen.arado): yes exactly boxy
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): ah, right. brits north and irish south.
Second Life: levi Ewing is online.
Zen (zen.arado): we use British Sterling as currency, the site uses euros
Zen (zen.arado): South
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): yes, that's a drastic difference :)
Zen (zen.arado): we are more Anglo Scottish
Zen (zen.arado): more like Scottish really I suppose
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): it's interesting that the olympics has a united gb team, but not world championships, like football.
Zen (zen.arado): yes I know
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): i guess it's done to increase participation
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): say, instead of just gb, there can be england, ireland, etc
Zen (zen.arado): most soccer players in the North of Ireland go to English teams or Scottish teams if they are any good
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): but then gb would be stronger perhaps
Zen (zen.arado): it's the same for rugby we have Scotland, Ireland, England, Wales
Zen (zen.arado): whereas France is one team
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): cheaters! :)
Zen (zen.arado): the South of Ireland has only about 4,000,000 population
Zen (zen.arado): in soccer there is Northern Ireland, Southern Ireland, Scotland England and Wales
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): we have a visitor :)
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): shouts: hi, ash!
Ash Ellsberg: hi :)
Zen (zen.arado): hello Ash
Ash Ellsberg: I'm doing a tour of cafes :)
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): welcome :)
Zen (zen.arado): welcome :)
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): we sometimes gather here for a chat
Zen (zen.arado): this is actually a pab meeting but the pb place restarted
Ash Ellsberg: pab??
Zen (zen.arado): play as being
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): a discussion group
Ash Ellsberg: oh ok :)
Ash Ellsberg: means very little to me
Second Life: Loelia Zabaleta is online.
Ash Ellsberg: but it sounds interesting
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): what about you? how did you find this place?
Ash Ellsberg: I search for 'cafe' :)
Zen (zen.arado): BTW the conversations are recorded and put on a Wiki
Zen (zen.arado): are you ok with that?
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): zen, this is not a pab meeting
Ash Ellsberg: ok - I'll try not to say anything too stupid
Zen (zen.arado): yes it is Alf
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): is it? shit! i've said too much
Zen (zen.arado): I still put this part on the Wiki
Zen (zen.arado): I have to retrieve it from my computer hard drive
Zen (zen.arado): because there is usually a restart at this time every Wednesday
Zen (zen.arado): we sometimes have to move here 10 minutes after the session starts at the Pavilion
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): ash, so this cafe is somewhere on the top in search?
Zen (zen.arado): so I would lose all that conversation
Zen (zen.arado): it's not that many people read the logs anyway but they could be useful for research or something
Zen (zen.arado): or if people miss an interesting session

Cafes and activities:

Ash Ellsberg: tbh there aren't too many cafes in search - I was surprised how few there are
Zen (zen.arado): why are you interested in cafes – Ash?
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): hmm
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): must be hungry :)
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Zen (zen.arado): this isn't really a cafe anyway
Ash Ellsberg: I just felkt like getting away from my usual haunts for a while - a cafe sounded like a good place to start
Zen (zen.arado): we don't eat here for sure
Zen (zen.arado): they just have various meetings
Ash Ellsberg: do you serve egg and chips? :)
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): where do you usually go?
Zen (zen.arado): I think there is a board somewhere that tells you about the meetings
Zen (zen.arado): sounds good :-)
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): um, it's more of a bar really. booze mostly.
Zen (zen.arado): Ah yes, there is a bar
Ash Ellsberg: booze is fine with me :)
Zen (zen.arado): they have science meetings and there is a meeting for Japanese people
Zen (zen.arado): a dream circle and sometimes art history
Ash Ellsberg: ok - I was wondering why there was no music
Ash Ellsberg: please let me know if I'm intruding
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): zen, science meetings? when?
Zen (zen.arado): no, but the PAB session started at seven a.m. and I will have to go shortly
Zen (zen.arado): well they used to have science meetings didn't they Alf?
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): a long time ago
Zen (zen.arado): they all stopped then?
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): the last one standing was vic's interdisciplinary lectures
Zen (zen.arado): yes Vic used to be the instigator
Zen (zen.arado): I used to come to some of them myself
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): he's busy in rl. not sure if he'll resume the lectures this fall.
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): even if he does, i'd suggest a more science friendly venue for him like science circle or mica
Second Life: leaping Panther (darren.islar) is offline.
Zen (zen.arado): maybe would be better
Ash Ellsberg: science friendly?
Zen (zen.arado): but you just use the same techniques and people teleport to the location
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): yes, those groups are specifically founded to promote science
Zen (zen.arado): probably more about getting the message to more groups about the lecture
Ash Ellsberg: ah ok
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): kira has more of a spiritual path
Ash Ellsberg: I'd go if there was a Q+A at the end :)
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): most lectures do
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): if there's time
Zen (zen.arado): well, I better go
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): right, off me go as well
Ash Ellsberg: thanks for the info you two :)
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): nice meeting you, ash
Ash Ellsberg: and you
Ash Ellsberg: next cafe for me :)
Zen (zen.arado): I got a get some food, no egg chips in here
Ash Ellsberg: hehe
mighty pirate (alfred.kelberry): bye!
Ash Ellsberg: byeeee
Zen (zen.arado): nice meeting you too
Zen (zen.arado): byee