2012.08.23 19:00 – Finding the Right Tools - Theme Session

This was theme session  where Pema and Eos focussed on exploring tools that would help us better understand our subjectivity.  Participants included  Aprhodite, stevenaia, Paradise, Druth, San,  Lucinda and Rhia

Eos Amaterasu: HI Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Eos
Eos Amaterasu: This session is held by Paradise :-)
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Pema
Pema Pera: Hi Eos and Aph!
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Pema. I thought I'd come and dip my toes in and enjoy the warmth of the group
Eos Amaterasu splashes water
Pema Pera: glad you did, Aph!
Pema Pera: we're a pretty cool group :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I've been ejoying the emails and the logs
Pema Pera: me too, glad to see so much engagement
Eos Amaterasu: "just listen and allow time", as stevenaia said
Aphrodite Macbain: and am learning to not look for concusions!
Pema Pera: hi Paradise!
Eos Amaterasu: goo thing :-)
Eos Amaterasu: *good
Pema Pera: goo defies conclusions :-)
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Para
Eos Amaterasu: or concussions
Pema Pera: Do you have some plans or suggestions for the next two sessions, Eos, given that we are halfway into our second mini-series?
Eos Amaterasu: Hmm... well, we've been using a bit of a form, but.... any suggestions?
Pema Pera: hi San!
Eos Amaterasu: (Hi San)
Santoshima Resident: hi Pema! and everyone :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya san :)
Pema Pera: well, an interesting question is whether we should try to become more specific, finding some "deliverables" or not
Pema Pera: I could argue either way :-)
Eos Amaterasu: I'd be interested in creating some actual awareness lab instruments :-)
Eos Amaterasu: but I think those are subtle structures of attention
Pema Pera: ah, that reminds me, what happened with your app?
Eos Amaterasu: which might seem unusual
Pema Pera: that was such a great idea!
Eos Amaterasu: until you realize and start running into the ways you are already holding yourself through such subtle structures of attention
Eos Amaterasu: is that catalogable?
Pema Pera: probably to some extent
Pema Pera: not the whole thing itself, but its shadow, its projection into words
Pema Pera: and projections do have the power to help others follow a similar path
Pema Pera: so yes, I'd be happy to go for it!
Pema Pera: (sorry about the side line question -- but still interested in that too!)
Aphrodite Macbain: listens attentively
Eos Amaterasu: the app? yes, still a good idea (you can now write Ruby to create native apps for all mobiles)
Aphrodite Macbain: app?
Pema Pera: as I remembered it, it was always "almost finished"
Pema Pera: how about finishing it? (^_^)
Paradise Tennant: hiya druth nice to see you :)
Pema Pera: hi Druth!
druth Vlodovic: hi
Eos Amaterasu: aph: https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Guardian_Pages/Droplet
Pema Pera: or do you consider it finished in its present form?
Eos Amaterasu: oh, it's okay as what it is, for members of the wiki site. Needs to be broadened....
Eos Amaterasu: hi druth
Pema Pera: in what way?
Eos Amaterasu: so you don't have to be a PaB guardian to use it
Pema Pera: ah, yes!
--BELL--
druth Vlodovic: how do you avoid thinking of dots when you use it?
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Eos Amaterasu: I think of time
Pema Pera often uses things thoughtlessly :)
Eos Amaterasu: follows the dotted line...
Aphrodite Macbain: feels a little dotty
Eos Amaterasu: I think something like that little app can help make frequency of doing these kinds of things higher
Pema Pera: sorry to bring up a second thread, Eos, but in fact the two may work together
Pema Pera: yes
Eos Amaterasu: which itself has an effect
Pema Pera: with the backup of the app, we may be able to explore more intensively whether we can find somewhat more concrete "telescope" applications
Pema Pera: or "lab tools" along the lines of what you mentioned, Eos
Aphrodite Macbain: focussing applications?
Pema Pera: how much time would it take for you to make the tool more generally available?
Paradise Tennant: hiya rhi nice to see you :))
druth Vlodovic: hey rhi, grab a set
Eos Amaterasu: yes, how to make such telescope apps "off the shelf"
Pema Pera: hi Rhia!
druth Vlodovic: telescope?
Eos Amaterasu: hi rhia
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Paradise
Eos Amaterasu: analogy of telescope as instrument of space observation
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi druth. Grab a set? I already have a pair. lol
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles and waves at Rhi
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi pema
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Eos
Pema Pera: Eos has mentioned using awareness tools :)
Eos Amaterasu: re creating an instrument of awareness observation
Rhiannon Dragoone waves at Aph
Pema Pera: bringing awareness into focus :)
druth Vlodovic: ah, extrnal control s to free up a
druth Vlodovic: the mind a little?
Aphrodite Macbain: well, apart from the 90 second pause, what else might be one?
Eos Amaterasu: there could be structure within the 90 seconds
Pema Pera: yes, although "external" and "control" both could be reconsidered :-)
Pema Pera: internal/external may not be so separate
Pema Pera: and control may become letting be
Aphrodite Macbain: maybe structure is a better word
Rhiannon Dragoone: What are we talking about?
Eos Amaterasu: Rhiannon, this is part 3 of 4 -part theme on creating laboratory instruments of awareness
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Pema Pera: [19:08] Eos Amaterasu: I'd be interested in creating some actual awareness lab instruments :-) [19:08] Eos Amaterasu: but I think those are subtle structures of attention
Eos Amaterasu: out of thin aware
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Pema Pera: [19:09] Eos Amaterasu: until you realize and start running into the ways you are already holding yourself through such subtle structures of attention
Aphrodite Macbain: this is a series of discussions of how PaB could be a lab focussing on subjectivity rather than objectivity
Aphrodite Macbain: I think we the avis are instruments, we the sangha
Pema Pera: shall we talk a bit more about those subtle structures, and how to craft them into tools?
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, for the most part you don't need instruments for that, but some use pendulums to help gauge their inner states
Pema Pera nods at Aph
druth Vlodovic: hard to design something that won't distract rather than free up
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Pema Pera: we're using the word "too" metaphorically, as something done in/with awareness, Rhia
Eos Amaterasu: how does a subtle structure become a tool?
Pema Pera: "too"
Paradise Tennant: can we sum up the end goal of these tools ..
Pema Pera: "tool"
Aphrodite Macbain: understating ourselves better as subjects?
Aphrodite Macbain: understanding
Pema Pera: no end goal, I don't think, apart from "Playing as Being" :-)
Eos Amaterasu: the end goal.... hmmm....?
Pema Pera: understanding is a nice side effect
Pema Pera: lots of side effects!
Eos Amaterasu: it's an interesting question to ask oneself, what is my end goal?
Pema Pera: but nothing to end with, perhaps
Aphrodite Macbain: I need some form of direction to follow
Eos Amaterasu: and where did that come from?
Aphrodite Macbain: what Eos?
Eos Amaterasu: yes
druth Vlodovic: maybe that really means you need a way to discard direction
Eos Amaterasu: how about have no end goal in next 90 secs
Pema Pera: :)
--BELL--
Eos Amaterasu: and we can report back....
Eos Amaterasu: Shall we go around clockwise?
Eos Amaterasu: would you like to start, San?
Santoshima Resident: uh, not particularly
Eos Amaterasu: that's fine
Eos Amaterasu: Para?
Aphrodite Macbain is away right now and has not broken her neck
Aphrodite Macbain: I suspect she might be afk
Eos Amaterasu: hmm... Paradise?
Eos Amaterasu: ok, Rhia?
Eos Amaterasu: (we're reporting from the 90 seconds experiment)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Rhiannon Dragoone: Are you kidding? I still haven't a clue what you're talking about
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Santoshima Resident: :)
Paradise Tennant: lol
Eos Amaterasu: ok.... Pema?
Pema Pera: I reflected on the many meanings of the phrase Play as Being
Paradise Tennant: listens
Pema Pera: and how "play" has no goal in itself
Pema Pera: although it can have many interesting and actually useful results
Pema Pera: typically unplanned
Pema Pera: and unguided
Pema Pera: "Being" may sound like an end goal
Pema Pera: but it is a pointer to something beyond concepts
Pema Pera: and beyond dualities like "start -- finish" etc
Pema Pera: that's why "play" is more appropriate for "what is", or "Being" :-)
Pema Pera: (done)
Eos Amaterasu: Barista?
Aphrodite Macbain: my 90 seconds were a combination of direction (time moving forward) and energy ( anxiety,
Aphrodite Macbain: anxiety, frustration, confusion)
Aphrodite Macbain: and multiple sensory experiences- primarily visual
Aphrodite Macbain: that kept me in the present.
Aphrodite Macbain: so movement/direction as well as complex presence of things.
Aphrodite Macbain: Can’t say it any better
Eos Amaterasu: thanks, Aph.
Paradise Tennant: sounded fine to me :) captures well what you are feeling
Pema Pera: you're doing great, Aph!
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Eos Amaterasu: I took the instruction/framing to "be without end goal" as what to notice and how to be
Eos Amaterasu: it was a kind of wow experience, like being in a suddenly fresh bubble
Eos Amaterasu: segued out about half way through the 90 seconds
Eos Amaterasu: but atmosphere remained, and sense of possibility of how to be that way
Eos Amaterasu: (done)
druth Vlodovic: I laid back and just tried not having an end goal at all, my thoughts all started chasing and playing with each other, then I got worried and ended up repeating "no end goal" hoping I'd get something to report
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: grins
Paradise Tennant: smiles at druth
Rhiannon Dragoone: So no end goal became your end goal, druth
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi steve
Eos Amaterasu: luv that account
Paradise Tennant: hiya stev :))
Aphrodite Macbain: nicely put Rhi
druth Vlodovic: hey 'naia
Eos Amaterasu: hi stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: waves at Rhi
Pema Pera: hi Steve!
Eos Amaterasu: should we do this again: "be without end goal"?
Aphrodite Macbain: waves at Stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: pardon my tardiness
Pema Pera: endless end goal practice :)
Eos Amaterasu: in the 90 seconds
--BELL--
Eos Amaterasu: stevenaia, we've been going around in a circle to report on part 90 secs.... just say "pass" if you want to pass...
Eos Amaterasu: start with San again?
stevenaia Michinaga: I can go after san :)
Aphrodite Macbain: awww. I think that's a compliment.
Santoshima Resident: could try ... I felt, and now feel no inclination to share that experience
Santoshima Resident: and feel that to do so
Santoshima Resident: diminishes
stevenaia Michinaga: unless we are going clockwise from above :)
Santoshima Resident: over
Paradise Tennant: my first 90 secs was spent trying extradite the dog's tennis ball from under the couch which proved more difficult than you would imagine but after success was to be had there was resounding joy.. I guess even being without an end goal I would like joy ::) to be :) my second 90 secs was spent wondering why  no goal  does not flow for me:)
Santoshima Resident: to para
Rhiannon Dragoone: I could actually say something this time, now that I know what the heck it is we were supposed to be doing
Eos Amaterasu: okay, first para , then rhia
stevenaia Michinaga: grins
Paradise Tennant: smiles ... done
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Eos Amaterasu: rhia?
Rhiannon Dragoone: ok
Rhiannon Dragoone: I just let all my feelings that I'm feeling at the moment come to consciousness
Rhiannon Dragoone: My excitement, my feelings of security, my tiredness, my dread, my physical sensation; the buzz that is sometimes a stream of fast, unfocused thoughts. And let them simply flow through.
Rhiannon Dragoone: End
Rhiannon Dragoone: (and yes, that sounded contradictory, but these are feelings)
Eos Amaterasu: thanks, rhia
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Rhi
Rhiannon Dragoone: Ur welcome, Eos, Aph
Pema Pera: I moved from the notion of a goal to the notion of time
Pema Pera: and started watching time
Pema Pera: noticing how we tend to impose a structure on time
Pema Pera: as if all moments of time are like beads on a string
Pema Pera: which is a convenient image, for practical purposes
Pema Pera: but it is not at all clear that that is accurate
Pema Pera: or exclusively true
Pema Pera: so I was trying to open myself for alternatives
Pema Pera: letting each moment be
Pema Pera: with no necessary connection to other moments
Pema Pera: which was very interesting, providing openings, but not so easy to put into words :-)
Pema Pera: (done)
Aphrodite Macbain: connecting the dots on the beads
Aphrodite Macbain: Being given permission to have no goal was very nice
Aphrodite Macbain: I realized someone else has to give me permission for me to take it.
Pema Pera: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I was able to relax and just look at us all. And using that looking I felt a strong affection (appreciation?) for all of you sitting around the squirt of water. :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: Then I got an IM and it all went splash
Aphrodite Macbain: done
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Rhiannon Dragoone: Aph, lol!
Eos Amaterasu: I started noticing when I did have a goal, or intention, but somewhat from within a space without that but that included that
Eos Amaterasu: so much richness, cause so much intention and goal all over the place
Eos Amaterasu: flip all around, could find that anytime anywhere
Eos Amaterasu: (done)
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles at Eos
Aphrodite Macbain: looks at druth
druth Vlodovic: pass
stevenaia Michinaga: walking in to this ... viewed the question as a puzzle looking for an answer, then I just thought that if my goal was to be present, then I am always and never at my end goal
stevenaia Michinaga: done
Paradise Tennant: smiles lovely
Eos Amaterasu: what an awesome group of people!
Pema Pera: indeed!
Pema Pera: no goal needed to have such fun :)
Pema Pera: thank you all -- and I'm off to lunch
Eos Amaterasu: :-) ~~
Rhiannon Dragoone: ty all; I'm off too
Santoshima Resident: bye, thank you
Eos Amaterasu: bye all
--BELL--
Rhiannon Dragoone: bye, San
Paradise Tennant: enjoy lunch pema ;))
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye everyone
Paradise Tennant: nite nite eos :)) san :))
Rhiannon Dragoone: bye everyone
stevenaia Michinaga: bye San, Pema
Paradise Tennant: nite nite sph
Aphrodite Macbain: nite nite all
Aphrodite Macbain: that was nice
druth Vlodovic: hugs all
Paradise Tennant: yes it was :)))
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Paradise Tennant: hugs druth :))
stevenaia Michinaga: will read the beginning later :)
Paradise Tennant: yes going to post it tonight :)

Quick Little Dream Session During the Wind Down

Paradise Tennant: sweet dreams san
stevenaia Michinaga: night San
Santoshima Resident: tanka, you too :)
Paradise Tennant: hiya luci I have a dream for you
Lucinda Lavender: super!
Lucinda Lavender: go right on...
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles, love dreams, loved the necklace
Paradise Tennant: smiles it was in a hotel
Paradise Tennant: a lovely reception room full of flowers and a great buffet table
Paradise Tennant: a friend of mine has a large family in Germany - she has 5 brothers and 2 sisters we were in Berlin and this was family gathering for her immediate and extended family
Paradise Tennant: I was just kind of tagging along
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Paradise Tennant: but I did not know that many people and she was swept away catching up .. most of the conversations were in German which I don't speak very much of...
Paradise Tennant: so I thought I would have coffee and a plate food and wait for her to have a bit of time :))
Paradise Tennant: one of her brothers was looking at me very fixedly ..
Paradise Tennant: I realized he was not sure If I should be there ..
Paradise Tennant: I smiled at him and I guess he decided regardless of whether or not I was invited he would make me feel welcome
Paradise Tennant: a very generous feeling just washed out of him and made me completely comfortable in a big room of strangers
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Paradise Tennant: so I started to listen to their conversations - they were very political and the complex ..
Paradise Tennant: very much about the state of play of European politics and economics
Paradise Tennant: kind of found if very interesting but intense and I was missing bits just did not know enough to catch the meaning of all the references..
Paradise Tennant: we walked outside .. for some air and looked down the street and there were maybe 8 or 9 funnel clouds tornadoes ..
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: moving towards us .. in a lazy kind of fashion ..
Paradise Tennant: he smiled at me and put his arm around my shoulder and said Ya the storm will come and it will pass and we will all be fine :)
Paradise Tennant: I woke up but is was so richly real
Paradise Tennant: even down to the smell of the coffee all the accents how my heels felt on my feet
stevenaia Michinaga: sounds intense and full of details
Lucinda Lavender: This feels like a dream that is a getting ready/preparation dream
Paradise Tennant: yes a rich tapestry
stevenaia Michinaga: and that you can remember such details so many hours later
Lucinda Lavender: After watching the public tv program on dreams last night... that is why I am saying that
Lucinda Lavender: the Rem dreams closer to dreaming are kind of like that
Paradise Tennant: with the rare ones I remember they seem to be like little bits of a movie in my head
Lucinda Lavender: closer to waking I mean
Lucinda Lavender: yes...
Paradise Tennant: I am so sad that I don't get to remember them
Paradise Tennant: seems like I am missing so much
Lucinda Lavender: the european financial situation comes to mind
stevenaia Michinaga: wish I didn't stop writing mine down, so nice to re-read them
Lucinda Lavender: the funnel clouds
Lucinda Lavender: and...the reassurance
Lucinda Lavender: reassurance
Lucinda Lavender: perhaps a new notebook and pen Stev
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Lucinda Lavender: placed with care after saying to yourself a sleep time...I hope to dream and remember...
stevenaia Michinaga: believe it or not something as simple as a new nice pen changes everything
Lucinda Lavender: yes...it is for me the creation of the ritual
Lucinda Lavender: that ritual/focus allows for focus
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, create another 99 day habit
Lucinda Lavender: nodding:)
stevenaia Michinaga: would love 99 days of dreams to write
Lucinda Lavender: me too!!
Lucinda Lavender: I only remember a few a month if that
stevenaia Michinaga: Para seem to remember more than most
stevenaia Michinaga: saves them for you, Luci
Paradise Tennant: smiles I think I maybe get 1 every two to three months
Lucinda Lavender: I very much appreciate them
Paradise Tennant: but they are usually very richly detailed
Lucinda Lavender: did anyone know about the dream program on public tv?
Paradise Tennant: no
Lucinda Lavender: on us stations perhaps
stevenaia Michinaga: no, was it Canadian?
Lucinda Lavender: us
Lucinda Lavender: US
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Lucinda Lavender: maybe it was a rerun
Lucinda Lavender: I can look for a link
Lucinda Lavender: it was on NOVA
Paradise Tennant: nova has great programming
Lucinda Lavender: It was on last night and...I put it on my face book page
Paradise Tennant: cool
--BELL--
Lucinda Lavender: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/
Lucinda Lavender: Called What are dreams?
Paradise Tennant: when I remember dreams it always seems to me like they are little instances of another reality .. just a real just as valid at this one
Lucinda Lavender: very rich yes
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, a look into that other universe
Lucinda Lavender: because when you are not very afraid ...with ability to focus outside the self
Lucinda Lavender: well that is how it feels to me
stevenaia Michinaga: from here Para's dream could be very stressful in RL
Lucinda Lavender: I may be making things up...
stevenaia Michinaga: but I suspect all was well in dreamtime
Paradise Tennant: funny though it was not that stressful
stevenaia Michinaga: hi san
Paradise Tennant: hiya san wb
Lucinda Lavender: but to witness the potential of stress and roll with it
Paradise Tennant: we are dream talking
Santoshima Resident: hi, ty
Lucinda Lavender: HI San:)
Santoshima Resident: yes, caught a little of that
Santoshima Resident: missed the actual dream, though
Paradise Tennant: okies one sec
Lucinda Lavender: Para shared her dream, and I watched a show on PBS last night
Santoshima Resident: ok
Santoshima Resident: what was the show?
Lucinda Lavender: about: What are Dreams?"
Lucinda Lavender: Channel 9
Santoshima Resident: oh, ok
Santoshima Resident: what ARE dreams?
Santoshima Resident: state of mind ................
Lucinda Lavender: very involved in our learning
Lucinda Lavender: some very preparatory
Santoshima Resident: ty, Para
Lucinda Lavender: really seeing them as practice
Lucinda Lavender: after the show
Paradise Tennant: practise for real life :))
Lucinda Lavender: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/wh...re-dreams.html
Lucinda Lavender: they cited study from Boston and Montreal
Lucinda Lavender: Thought of Fox
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
Paradise Tennant: maybe our brains make our real life and dreams are trial runs
Santoshima Resident: 8 or 9 funnel cloud tornadoes
Lucinda Lavender: nodding..
Lucinda Lavender: so in dream circle...I would say different things
stevenaia Michinaga: strange that animals dream too
Paradise Tennant: they looked really beautiful we were on a terrace very hgh up and there was a big bank of clouds almost on eye level with them
Lucinda Lavender: bank of clouds
Lucinda Lavender: "bank"
Lucinda Lavender: the spinning of thoughts around the politics of systems
Paradise Tennant: yes
Paradise Tennant: yes weather economics and politics all a spin
Lucinda Lavender: the kindness of others with whom we smile
Lucinda Lavender: even when we do not know each other well or are from different cultures
Lucinda Lavender: the awareness of differences
Lucinda Lavender: and acceptance
Lucinda Lavender: dream is rich
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: yes the sense I had was when he allowed his generous nature to the fore - he got lighter more luminous - subtly but noticeably
Lucinda Lavender: then there is a shift of focus?...to the clouds?
Paradise Tennant: no from there to very detailed conversations
Lucinda Lavender: ah...and the details are maybe a level of trust and truth
Paradise Tennant: then when he could see me getting lost he took me on a little walk outside to show me the storm so I would understand ..like he knew it would be there
Paradise Tennant: I remember think I am having such a nice time here
Lucinda Lavender: looking forward to something of potential
Lucinda Lavender: maybe some of our best work crystallizes
Lucinda Lavender: forms
Lucinda Lavender: well...best work...strong word there...sorry
Lucinda Lavender: deep consideration I meant
Santoshima Resident: { please excuse me, time for rest } thanks for revealing your dream, Paradise
Paradise Tennant: smiles speaking of time though I am getting the look .. kind of a nose in the air .. well if you don't want to go to bed ..you might consider that I do and I need a walk :)))
Paradise Tennant: nite nite san me too I am afraid ..time for the last stroll of the day
Lucinda Lavender: your ability to see deeply
stevenaia Michinaga: night San, nice Para
Paradise Tennant: thank you luci .. f
Paradise Tennant: for sharing your thoughts
Lucinda Lavender: nice to see you all...
stevenaia Michinaga: watching the program now
Lucinda Lavender: cool Steve:)
Paradise Tennant: smiles :)) okays till next time my friends here or in our dreams :)))
 Paradise Tennant: smiles
Lucinda Lavender: yes! sweet dreams
stevenaia Michinaga: night
Paradise Tennant: nite nite sweet dreams :)))
stevenaia Michinaga: night Luci
Lucinda Lavender: I will go for now this is gypsy wagon weekend...preparation to make for that...
Lucinda Lavender: sweet dreams to you:)
stevenaia Michinaga: :0
stevenaia Michinaga: :)