2009.11.04 07:00 - Stopping in a Funny Pose

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal, who was joined today by Sophia, Yakuzza, and Storm. Sophia started today's topic, which led to a funny but really useful discussion of PaB pauses in daily life.

    sophia Placebo: greetings
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sophia, you look amazing with dark hair :)
    sophia Placebo: ^^ thnx
    Eliza Madrigal: Anyway, how are things today?
    sophia Placebo: :) funny
    Eliza Madrigal: funny?
    sophia Placebo: yeah, some funny patients with funny complaints so ....
    Eliza Madrigal: If I may ask, what qualifies as a funny complaint?
    sophia Placebo: hmmm
    Eliza Madrigal: Or that may be inappropriate to ask here... Hm
    Eliza Madrigal: Sorry :)
    sophia Placebo: np :) unusual non medical issues are usually funny complaints
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe because it is so strange to try to describe things.. where a 'normal' pain ends and an uncommon one begins, etc
    sophia Placebo: poepel picking some un relivant issues and stick to it , oh well hard to tell but the poeple whome you think are living in upside doan reasoning realm than yours usually make you smile and or laugh
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Also, people have various thresholds too... so one person comes in with a hiccup and another with a leg falling off
    Eliza Madrigal: heh
    Eliza Madrigal: "I feel a little uncomfortable"
    Eliza Madrigal: :)

    Yakuzza arives, and we talk about habits. How long does it take for a thought to become an action? Does it depend on the thought? The person?

    Yakuzza Lethecus: morning eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi yakuzza! :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and sophioa
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see you today. All well?
    sophia Placebo: like a paitent worried about rare or non existing side effects of one drug but totally ok with her smoking habit
    sophia Placebo: hi yak
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh.... yes peculiar
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sure, keep going in the topic :)
    Eliza Madrigal: We are all like that... "Strain on a gnat and swallow a camel" it is called somewhere
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    sophia Placebo: true
    Eliza Madrigal: it must be difficult to evaluate in a concrete way
    Eliza Madrigal: for someone else I mean... in a way that shows a 'good' decision
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s facinating how we tend to behave in dissonant ways, yesterday i´ve eaten an entire package of choclate ,,knowing" that i will feel sick after it :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but it tasted great :)
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh
    Eliza Madrigal: You made a conscious decision to be ill, in a way
    Eliza Madrigal: to pay the price
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or that i get blain´s from french fries
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i still can´t resist sometimes
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but the problem in the experience and learning behavior is when we can´t directly conclude from the negative traits on future health problems
    Eliza Madrigal: By the time I get to the "If I eat that I will feel ill but I really want to" I've really already made the decision to eat it 'come what may'... so for myself, the only thing to do is to 'add' positive habits
    Eliza Madrigal: and then the thought doesn't come up so easily...
    Eliza Madrigal: strange maybe, but I gave up on trying to 'control' myself at one level...
    Eliza Madrigal: Does that make sense?
    sophia Placebo: hi storm
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t know, i try not to control myself that much

    Storm arrives and the discussion shifts a bit toward priorities and what it takes to make effective changes.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi storm
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Storm! :)
    Storm Nordwind: Hi guys :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i am aware of the negative habits i have
    Eliza Madrigal: Here is something Sophia said this morning which has sparked a conversation :[7:10] sophia Placebo: like a paitent worried about rare or non existing side effects of one drug but totally ok with her smoking habit
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so when i ,,want something to go away" i often get stuck in the thought about it but unable to change things
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, interesting phrasing there ya. See that "stuck in the thought'
    Eliza Madrigal: hm
    Eliza Madrigal: All well Storm?
    sophia Placebo: thoughts take long time befor they are trnaslated to actions
    Storm Nordwind: ?
    Eliza Madrigal: Maybe it depends on the type of thought?
    sophia Placebo: maybe
    sophia Placebo: maybe it is just me also
    Yakuzza Lethecus: for example there are issues i circle in for years
    Storm Nordwind apologiezes and closes down all the PaB Wiki maintenance screens! :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: like, i was to scared to study at college
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe, no worries Storm
    Yakuzza Lethecus: why that happened, why i still fear to fail if i try distant study, what the misguided believes are i have in mind
    Eliza Madrigal: If one comes to a sign or issue over and over again, it is like a recurrent dream to be addressed....
    Eliza Madrigal: to come at another way maybe
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe even illogically
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am going to be afk for a couple of minutes
    sophia Placebo: i guess it maybe has something to do with habit resistance
    Eliza Madrigal: habit resistance Sophia?
    sophia Placebo: some poeple are more flexible with habits others are more strict
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, maybe the grooves we get stuck in vary too
    Eliza Madrigal: in depth I mean
    sophia Placebo: so when they are thinking of changing their home , city , job smoking habit etc , they took longer time thinking about it
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Storm Nordwind: There are many reasons for that though
    Storm Nordwind: Some people don't like to take risks. Others just want to be thorough in their evaluations
    Eliza Madrigal: true, and varying circumstances factor in... a person who easily takes risk for themselves might not risk if another is involved...
    sophia Placebo: true , habits are not totally pointless
    Storm Nordwind nods
    Storm Nordwind: Quite often, the problem of bad habits is that people have not really prioritized what's most important to them...
    Storm Nordwind: or they have and really the habit is more important than they'd previously admitted!
    Eliza Madrigal nods to that... yes for instance someone smoking has all kinds of associations involved... habits of identity, etc... within habits
    Storm Nordwind: very few people actually take the time to sit down and thoroughly evaluate: "What matters most to me?"
    Eliza Madrigal: false starts can have a wearing down effect too...making one hesitant. Especially if working 'under one's own steam' so to speak. So something one wants 'more than anything' can be paralyzing?
    sophia Placebo: hmm , many poeple actually know that their health is more important than tastey food , and though they admitt this they also admitt that they do it the other way around cuz it is more convienent
    Storm Nordwind: Evaluating what you really want doesn't necessarily give you the confidence to go for it Eliza :)
    sophia Placebo nods
    Eliza Madrigal: :)

    What we think we know...

    Storm Nordwind: What people 'know' and what people really think is important are often at odds
    Storm Nordwind: But seeing this is the first step of changing it
    Storm Nordwind: These things are not set in stone
    Storm Nordwind used to teach this stuff on personal management coaching courses
    Eliza Madrigal sees meditation as the way getting beyond or undermine/break down those thoughts we get *stuck* in
    Storm Nordwind: It can be a fabulous tool for that Eliza, true
    Eliza Madrigal: Careful Storm, you'll have emails from me...hehe... and you're busy enough...hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: "How do I decide...."
    Storm Nordwind: Although there are so many different sorts of meditation, so you need the right tools for the job!
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, true... that can be overwhelming
    Storm Nordwind: The answer to that is easy Eliza. "How do I decide...." First sign here and pay me $10,000! ;->
    Eliza Madrigal giggles

    Choosing the right tool...

    Eliza Madrigal: So then Storm what kind of tool would you see the PaB style pauses as?
    Eliza Madrigal: Is that an odd question?
    Storm Nordwind breathes in sharply!
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Storm Nordwind: Well, it depends on your frame of reference - what terms you use
    Storm Nordwind: I'd rather not classify it really
    Storm Nordwind: I'd rather just go with the effects
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Storm Nordwind: And that really tells you what kind of tool it is for you personally
    Eliza Madrigal: yes understandable
    Storm Nordwind: People use it for different things

    Sophia's PaB pause experience...

    sophia Placebo: i had pab pause experiance a few days ago wich was funny too
    Storm Nordwind: For example, I know Buddhists who use it simply as a tool to help mindfulness
    Storm Nordwind: Please tell us sophia!
    Eliza Madrigal listens
    sophia Placebo: well i was in the car back from work with all kinds of thoughts of the whole day dancing in my head , or fighting anyway
    sophia Placebo: then suddenly i just paused and reialized what i was thinking of and how i was reasoning it
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, so you saw the way you were thinking as causing the tension
    Eliza Madrigal: ?
    sophia Placebo: that was funny cuz it reminds me of some uni students project where they ask some poepel to pause all of sudden in publick place , like really pausing , stoping the movements and all as if they were frozen
    sophia Placebo: thats how i saw my self , stoping in funny pose
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    sophia Placebo: like if it wasnt me who was doing that reasoning :)
    Storm Nordwind remembers statues in the city of Bath in south-west England, painted blue or verdigris green, who moved very very slowly... and they winked at the tourists watching them
    Storm Nordwind: That's a simple and powerful effect of PaB pauses sophia
    sophia Placebo: true
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, and now I'm considering how it plays with time perception in a funny way... movement
    Eliza Madrigal: stopping to look at what is 'going on' ... seems a gift to do that..to slow down and find better proportion
    Storm Nordwind: exactly
    Storm Nordwind: And you often see how physical tension suddenly dissolves too when you do it
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, true!
    Eliza Madrigal: I paused when packing yesterday... was getting all tangled
    sophia Placebo: well if it makes you smile :) it sure dose
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Eliza Madrigal: yes a real smile
    Storm Nordwind: How wonderful to share a real smile with friends! :))
    sophia Placebo: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I have a meeting at my son's school in a few minutes... will be employing 9 secs a lot I think
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Storm Nordwind: Oh!
    sophia Placebo: hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm glad for this conversation which keeps it at the front of my mind
    Eliza Madrigal: as I tend to get a little hm... jumpy in that setting :)
    Storm Nordwind: understandable
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm thinking now about the line you wrote Storm that what we think we know and what we actually think can be at odds
    sophia Placebo: jump and pose while doing so !
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah Sophia
    sophia Placebo: pause*
    Storm Nordwind chuckles with sophia
    Eliza Madrigal: That's what we tap into though... that we stop and see what we actually are thinking..how habitual it can be
    Eliza Madrigal: That image will probably help, Sophia
    Eliza Madrigal: if I take things too seriously :)
    sophia Placebo: hehe
    Storm Nordwind: Yes indeed Eliza. It's very good for gently bringing our habits to our attention

    We seemed to naturally pause and integrate...

    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal feels very peaceful, Thanks guys
    Storm Nordwind smiles and shares in the wonderful peace :)
    sophia Placebo: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I'll leave at the bell, to run to the meeting. Lovely day/evening to all! :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    sophia Placebo: bye Eliza ! nice to see you today :)
    Storm Nordwind: Good luck with your meeting!
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks very much! Bye for now (( ))
    sophia Placebo: i will leave too :) bye
    Storm Nordwind: Bye sophia!

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