2009.11.27 01:00 - Tea and nails

Wol Euler was guardian and commenter for this session.

A casual question about Gaya's group tag "Siworae" sparks a great discussion.

Wol Euler: hello arch, gaya
Wol Euler wonders what a Siwora is.
Archmage Atlantis: Hiya Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... it's a Korean film that was made into an English version later, called 'Lake House'
Gaya Ethaniel: Siworae actually means in October.
Wol Euler: ah :)
Gaya Ethaniel: It was sold internationally as Il Mare - the sea ... name for the Buyeo area :)
Wol Euler: aaaaaaah
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Archmage Atlantis: Oh, I saw that, "The Lake House" english version
Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
Wol Euler: oooooh, that sounds spooky-good.
Gaya Ethaniel: I prefer the original though some bits a bit sacharine ... but English version also pleasant.
Wol Euler: hollywood always adds a spoonful of sugar
Gaya Ethaniel: brb more coffee
Archmage Atlantis: It expressed longing and the issues of distance for me
Gaya Ethaniel: :D
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Gaya Ethaniel: Did you like the film then Arch?
Archmage Atlantis: Very much, Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Wol Euler: oooh, I'm getting goosebumps and misty-eyed. Must see this film.
Gaya Ethaniel: Watch both versions and tell me what you think :)
Archmage Atlantis: The original was filmed in Korean then, Gaya?
Gaya Ethaniel: mhm ... by sea instead of a lake.
Gaya Ethaniel: http://images2.iwilab.com/shared/ite...59787_500x.jpg -- poster for the Korean original :)

Languages, and the learning thereof.

Archmage Atlantis: I have very little ability to learn new languages, I spend 5 years trying to learn German, and 4 years trying to learn Spanish.......so I am always dependent of subtitles
Gaya Ethaniel: Me too, I'm not very good at languages either.
Archmage Atlantis: As I remember none of what I attempted to learn
Gaya Ethaniel: Well, I have to have a certain motivation other than just liking a language to learn it better ...
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: curiosity?
Wol Euler: love?
Gaya Ethaniel thinks ...
Archmage Atlantis: I wish I could just have Finnish as a plug in module *grin*
Wol Euler: heheheheh, that would be good.
Gaya Ethaniel: Not sure ... it's not just about liking it ... I like Japan/Japanese but I have no motivation to study hard though it's relatively easy for me to pick it up.
Gaya Ethaniel: heheheh
Wol Euler: so perhaps the difficulty is in the concept of "studying hard". Why not just pick it up easily?
Gaya Ethaniel: It is easy to pick up I mean Japanese compared to Tibetan for example but I like learning Tibetan better :)
Wol Euler: you're young, learn both.
Gaya Ethaniel: I never warmed to French compared to English either ... interesting :)

--BELL--

Gaya Ethaniel: nah, so much interesting stuff to do ... :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Sometimes, having too many interests and hobbies going isn't very good for me, like having too many options.
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Gaya Ethaniel: Actually we were talking about this a few days ago.
Archmage Atlantis: I understand that Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel looks up ...

Perfection and tea.

Gaya Ethaniel: Calvino Rabeni: there is a saying - Show me a man who can make a perfect cup of tea, and I will show you a man who can do anything.
Wol Euler laughs.
Wol Euler: so true.
Archmage Atlantis: What does that saying mean to you. Gaya?
Gaya Ethaniel: One learns a particular thing that is congenial to do, enriching perhaps then ... s/he can learn to do other thing just equally well without going through typical 'learning' processes ... I think that's what I saw in this.
Wol Euler nods. It's about attention and ... hmmmm ... recognition of the worth of doing things well
Archmage Atlantis: Ah, that is similar, but not the same as the meaning I heard
Wol Euler: which some people don'T recognize.
Gaya Ethaniel: Please say more?
Wol Euler: IMHO )
Gaya Ethaniel: What is the meaning for you then Arch?
Archmage Atlantis: Making a perfect cup of tea, a metaphor, is about learning how tea and the rituals around it, are in existence in a particular culture
Archmage Atlantis: Is there a "right" way to make tea?........I grew up on tea as brewed and prepared in the SE US
Gaya Ethaniel: It's relative?
Gaya Ethaniel: I think ...
Wol Euler: mmhmm, sure is. The tea ceremony is one way
Wol Euler: indian roadside chai is another
Gaya Ethaniel: An ideal is quite subjective :)
Gaya Ethaniel: lol roadside chai
Wol Euler: oh, lemme find the URL, I saw a great film about roadside chai-wallahs :))
Wol Euler: http://chaipilgrimage.com/2008/11/28...a-chai-wallah/
Gaya Ethaniel: ooo *looks*
Wol Euler: it's about excellence. His example: on this particular street there are a dozen chai-wallahs already in business, and one young man setting u his stall
Archmage Atlantis: My mother boiled water, put in the tea bags
Wol Euler: there are a dozen people waiting for him, people on their way to work, in more or less of a hurry
Wol Euler: but they wait for him rather than going to someone else who is already open for business
Archmage Atlantis: Then as much sugar as the hot water would hold
Archmage Atlantis: And poured the finished tea over ice
Gaya Ethaniel: They sometimes put cinnamon ... and some insists on full milk. A uni flatmate German-Indian often made this spiced tea :)
Gaya Ethaniel: So I'm sure certain people perfer certain vendors :)
Wol Euler smiles. Arch, that sounds familiar.
Wol Euler: my canadian (norwegian) grandmother made it that way
Gaya Ethaniel: Quite a common feature in old markets ... I had specific a tempura stall I'd go for example :)
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... :)
Archmage Atlantis: about as far from tea served in a Japanese restaurat

--BELL--

Archmage Atlantis: as posssible
Wol Euler: I was about to say that we are perhaps re-enacting the parable of the blind men and the elephant :)
Wol Euler: guessing what Calvino might have meant
Archmage Atlantis: The first time I had tea in a Chinese restaurant I was amazed
Gaya Ethaniel: So it can go like this too ... "show me a person who can make a perfect piece of tempura, and I will show you someone who can do anything." :D
Archmage Atlantis: It was wonderful
Wol Euler smiles. What was so great about it, Arch?
Archmage Atlantis: And I still like both versions

Difference and wonderfulness.

Archmage Atlantis: That the same thing can be different, yet still wonderful
Wol Euler: mmhmm, an important lesson to learn :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Wol Euler: seriously, though. Many people think seeing a difference means that one *must* be superior to the other
Gaya Ethaniel nods ... easy to think that.
Archmage Atlantis: The nail that stands out gets hammered down - I have alway disagreed
Wol Euler nods
Gaya Ethaniel: Why? It's a hazard?
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, it is a hazard
Wol Euler: metaphorical nails :) The meaning is "don't be better than your peers at doing anything"
Wol Euler: which is of course nonsense
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... ok
Archmage Atlantis: It also says there is nothing new to learn
Wol Euler: also nonsense
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm reading this funny log from 1 pm yesterday ... meetings are not becoming solely about PaB pracitces.
Gaya Ethaniel: Here it's all about food ... :)

--BELL--

Gaya Ethaniel shrugs ... show me a place where there is no nonsense ... :P
Gaya Ethaniel: oh ... clever, it does get steered into 'Being' half way through ... :) Very skillful hosting ...
Wol Euler: mmhmm, I remember now, had to look it up to be sure what you meant.
Gaya Ethaniel: brb
Gaya Ethaniel: back
Wol Euler: wb
Gaya Ethaniel: ty :)

A little meta-discussion to round the morning out. 

Gaya Ethaniel: To be honest, I'd find sessions where we just do breaks and talk about experiences one by one boring ...
Wol Euler grins
Gaya Ethaniel: But then perhaps it won't be for people who doesn't get to practice in RL much ...
Wol Euler: I get the impression thatt many visitors don't do the practices at all.
Gaya Ethaniel: Balance sounds easy but hard to do ... :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Well ... people don't just take up meditation ... need a trigger of some sort, genuine reason for trying out.
Archmage Atlantis: Define balance please.
Gaya Ethaniel: May take some time for some people while some will just dive in.
Gaya Ethaniel: What do you think Arch?
Archmage Atlantis: I asked first
Gaya Ethaniel shrugs ...
Gaya Ethaniel: You can ask ... but whether I choose to answer is another thing :P
Wol Euler: play nicely, please :)
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, of course, and that is balance
Gaya Ethaniel: heh ok :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Just tired to think about concepts that's all :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Should go get some rest I think ...
Gaya Ethaniel: Good day/night, nice seeing you both :)
Wol Euler: bye gaya, take care.
Archmage Atlantis: I agree, so I shall tell you my understanding of balance
Gaya Ethaniel: ok
Archmage Atlantis: Balance is a transitional moment, when all we know is coherent
Wol Euler nods thoughtfully
Gaya Ethaniel nods ... and will read the log later :)

--BELL--

Archmage Atlantis: New knowlege create new balance
Wol Euler: often only after a period of imbalance, until it's understood and incorporated into what we know.
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, Wol, that is how I see it for us, for now
Wol Euler: I foresee some work in my immediate future, alas.
Wol Euler: take care, Arch, get some sleep :)
Archmage Atlantis: I will try
Wol Euler: bye for now