2009.11.23 19:00 - Gratitude and non-violence

The Guardian for this meeting was Fox Monacular. The comments are by Fox Monacular.

Fox Monacular: hello Eden
Eden Haiku: Hi Fox, how are you ;-)
Fox Monacular: good, thanks, how are you?
Eden Haiku: Good.The weather is so nice these days isn'it? It is like a grace!
Fox Monacular: seriously, we go out more now
Fox Monacular: :)
Eden Haiku: I walked for more than an hour by the river this morning, it was almost warm. Incredible, in November!
Fox Monacular: i know, it's great
Fox Monacular: still didn't have to put baby in a huge winter suit
Fox Monacular: so she can still walk around
Eden Haiku: Yes ;-)
Calvino Rabeni: Good evening, Eden, Fox.
Natia Algoma: hey everyone
Natia Algoma: how are you?
Eden Haiku: Good evening.
Fox Monacular: hello Calvino and Natia
Fox Monacular: hello Gavin
Fox Monacular: please join us
Gavin Moorsider: hello Fox
Natia Algoma: thanks
Natia Algoma: may I ask what we're joining you in?
Fox Monacular: have you been here before?
Natia Algoma: nope
Fox Monacular: here's a description of our group
Fox Monacular: we record our chat conversations and post them on the wiki, is it ok with you?
Natia Algoma: sure
Gavin Moorsider: certainly and i'm reading throught the note card, thank you
Fox Monacular: please join us:)
Eden Haiku: We are a circle of friends Natia. You are welcome, if you want to sit with us and join the conversation.
Natia Algoma: am I required to sit?
Natia Algoma: brb - I need a drink
Fox Monacular: sorry, I had to step away, baby situation
Fox Monacular: well, it's nice if we all sit in circle, but you can stand if you wish
Natia Algoma: you're a cultivator? What does that mean?
Fox Monacular: it's just one of the ways we think of the practice as a group
Fox Monacular: play as being
Natia Algoma: can you explain that?
Fox Monacular: you can read more about the practice here
Fox Monacular: http://playasbeing.wik.is/
Eden Haiku: This is a very interesting question Natia... A tough one...;-)
Natia Algoma: I'm actually already there, Fox
Fox Monacular: basically every 15 min we try to drop the appearances
Fox Monacular: to see what we really are
Natia Algoma: and it all looks very screwy
Natia Algoma: pardon me if I repeat you - but every 15 minutes you drop the appearances?
Natia Algoma: all those words are english, but put together, they make no sense
Fox Monacular: well, you take 9 sec out ouf your time
--BELL--
Fox Monacular: let's try now
Fox Monacular: drop the appearances
Fox Monacular: are you familiar with any meditation practice, Natia?
Natia Algoma: it depends precisely how one defines meditation - it's a bit of a loaded word
Fox Monacular: I realize that all this lingo may seem confusing in the beginning
Natia Algoma: do I subscribe to the idea of taking a moment to kind of relax and focus, then yes, I am familiar with meditation
Fox Monacular: well, meditation as an eastern practice of cultivating awareness of the mind
Fox Monacular: yes, something like that
Natia Algoma: if you think of meditation as a way of getting to a higher plane or something full of woo like that - then no - I steer well clear
Fox Monacular: I haven't experienced anything like that either
Fox Monacular: in this group we try to explore our everyday lives, our reality by bringing this short meditative practice into our days
Fox Monacular: in between of whatever we might be doing, just dropping everything for 9 sec
Fox Monacular: or for 90 sec if we're in the conversation here
Natia Algoma: odd
Fox Monacular: would you like to give it a try?
Fox Monacular: we are a group of people with all sorts of different backgrounds, religious, scientific, linguistic, conversations are often very interesting here, you're welcome to join whenever you like
Natia Algoma: well, I am here
Fox Monacular: on the wiki page you can browse through old chats too to have an idea of what kinds of conversations happen here
Eden Haiku: Fox is doing a real good job trying to explain what Play as being is Natia. But nothing is better than expriencing it.
Fox Monacular: is there anything in particular you'd like to talk about tonight?
Fox Monacular: yes:) thank you Eden
Eden Haiku: We wree doing small talk when you got here, talking about the weather. Fox and I happen to live in the same city...
Eden Haiku: And we have been having a wonderful weather. ;-)
Fox Monacular: yes, a real treat, unexpected too:)
Calvino Rabeni: Have you met in RL there?
Fox Monacular: not yet, but I'm looking forward!
Eden Haiku: So maybe we can focus on gratitude?
Eden Haiku: On the next 90 secs I mean?
Fox Monacular: gratitude is a good topic
Fox Monacular: Hi Eos
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Fox & company!
Eden Haiku: Welcome Eos.
Fox Monacular: we were about to choose a topic for tonight, Eden proposed gratitude
Eden Haiku: Nice t-shirt Eos!
Eos Amaterasu: Excellent!
Eos Amaterasu: William Blake: "gratitude is heaven itself"
Eden Haiku: ;-)
Calvino Rabeni: Eos, is there a name for that zen brush circle?
Eos Amaterasu: There probably is, but I don't know what it is
Fox Monacular: enso, right?
Eos Amaterasu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensō
Eos Amaterasu: Yes
Fox Monacular: thanks for the link, Eos
Eos Amaterasu: Re gratitude, can we frame an approach to the 90 secs around gratitude?
Calvino Rabeni: http://images.google.com/images?q=enso+curcle
Eden Haiku: Yes, thanks!
Calvino Rabeni: SOrry spelled circle wrong - change it, you will see many nice ensos
Eden Haiku: Maybe if we focus on one small thing we are greatful for today?
--BELL--
Fox Monacular: any interesting experiences?
Eden Haiku: I feel grateful for the sensation of the sun still on my face tonite after my long morning walk.
Fox Monacular: :)
Fox Monacular: I didn't get to experience anything this time - had to fix cartoons that froze
Eos Amaterasu: No need to go anywhere else, or change anything to anything
Fox Monacular: although I am grateful got youtube!
Eos Amaterasu: cartoons, however :-)
Eos Amaterasu: Cartoons for you or the little one?
Fox Monacular: my daughter can watch all russian cartoons I watched when I was small
Fox Monacular: no no, not me, for her:)
Eden Haiku: You get the russian cartoons on Youtube?
Fox Monacular: lots!
Eden Haiku: Amazing!
Eos Amaterasu: What a world!
Fox Monacular: yes, it's pretty convenient, and many are with english subs, so my husband can watch too:)
Fox Monacular: so I can be grateful to whoever posted them online
Eden Haiku: ;-)
Eos Amaterasu: buddhists talk about being grateful to all sentient beings, who have been our mothers
Fox Monacular: yes, it's a good imperative!
Eos Amaterasu: to be a mother?
Eden Haiku: This song by Sinead O'Connor « This is to mother you...» so moving...
Eos Amaterasu loves Sinead O'Connor
Fox Monacular: :)
Fox Monacular: today at work I was doing some brainless data manipulations and was listening to a Berkeley lecture on Bhagavat Gita and ethics of inaction in action
Fox Monacular: http://academicearth.org/lectures/gi...life-purpose-1
Eden Haiku: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9P9kf4QZ2E
Fox Monacular: thanks, Eden! I'll have to listen to it later - it clashes with cartoon music!
Eden Haiku: I'm also listening to your link...
Fox Monacular: well, it's over 1 hour long:)
Fox Monacular: and there's 2 parts
Calvino Rabeni: Eden, I am glad you brought up the topic of gratitude. I was reviewing some of Pema's essays on thye web site and thinking about it.
Fox Monacular: but I thought it will be intereseting to people here
Larisa Polikarpov: Gavin - get your ass up and come now!
Fox Monacular: Hello Larisa
Larisa Polikarpov: I did not give you permission to be here
Gavin Moorsider: yes Ms
--BELL--
Eden Haiku: So I will listen to thatn later. But I like the fact that nonb-violent people do not
Eden Haiku: When the lecturer in this video you linked us to Fox, when he says that non-violet people do not stay away from conflict all the time.
Eden Haiku: *non-violent
Fox Monacular: yes, I thought it was very interesting
Eos Amaterasu: not avoidance
Fox Monacular: just like in Bhagavat Gita
Eden Haiku: Yes, not avoidance.
Fox Monacular: Arjuna still has to go into battle
Eden Haiku: Do thy bidding...
Calvino Rabeni: I like in the story,how deeply felt was Arjuna's dilemma proposed to krishna
Eos Amaterasu: How would you state that, Calvino?
Fox Monacular: but his actions are not carried out because of his personal enmity, but rather non attached to result, because it's his dharma
Calvino Rabeni: He presented great anguish openly that he could be called to slay members of his clan.
Eos Amaterasu: yes, a harrowing story....
Calvino Rabeni: He was inocent about it
Eos Amaterasu: That story contains one of the heaviest lines in all of literature:
Fox Monacular: right, non doing in doing
Fox Monacular: which line, Eos?
Eos Amaterasu: "when one prefers one's own children to those of another, then war is not far away"
Fox Monacular: yes
Fox Monacular: tough one
Calvino Rabeni: And they took a long time to build it up
Eden Haiku: It is like Christb saying; I did not come to bring peace amongst you but the sword.
Calvino Rabeni: It was not taken lightly
Eos Amaterasu: so being not afraid to meet the edge of something
Eden Haiku: Power of Kali.
Eos Amaterasu: even something like the fearsome reality of karma
Calvino Rabeni: Fierceness, discriminating will
Eden Haiku: Shiva dancing destruction of the world.
Eos Amaterasu: but at the same time, without aggression
Calvino Rabeni: Another line in the BG is something like - "A little of this dharma goes a long way"
Eden Haiku: What an art...
Eos Amaterasu: Camus should meet Arjuna
Calvino Rabeni: Wasn't there a quote from Stim about wrath?
Fox Monacular: :)
Eos Amaterasu: satyagraha : truth force
Eos Amaterasu: much better word than non-violence
Eden Haiku: I never met Stim, but he is very often mentionned here...Sometimes in typos even!
Eos Amaterasu: it's positive: meet the situation
Fox Monacular: yes, I never know how to spell that
Eos Amaterasu: very Stimulating?
Fox Monacular: no, I mean satyagraha
Fox Monacular: :)
Eos Amaterasu: I think we could try that in the next 90 secs :-)
Eos Amaterasu: satyagraha - how would you say that?
Eden Haiku: Gandhi was a great soul. Yet, he prevented his sons from studying...
Calvino Rabeni: Are there emotions or energies you wouldn't want to explore in this group?
Eos Amaterasu: (a trick question :-)
Fox Monacular: I'm not sure:)
Calvino Rabeni: SOmething to look at.
Eos Amaterasu: that's another great one for the 90 secs!
Eden Haiku: I like satyagraha as a topic.
Calvino Rabeni: Depends on HOW it is done, i suppose
Calvino Rabeni: Please describe it - so I will have a handle on it.
Eos Amaterasu: how to approach something without destroying it?
Eos Amaterasu: how to meet something without anger
Eden Haiku: truth in action. Ever changing.
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: THings happen very rapidly when one is out in public
Calvino Rabeni: surrounded by many people
Eos Amaterasu: More willingness to more energetically be there, in the space of perceptions, in just open space
Eos Amaterasu: can you say more, Calvino?
Calvino Rabeni: I was noticing the way I would meet people through gaze
Calvino Rabeni: In a public place. In a glance. Almost no time for thinking thoughts.
Eos Amaterasu: touch and go?
Calvino Rabeni: And yet.. There wass a quality of satyagraha in the conection
Calvino Rabeni: in a way that surprised me
Calvino Rabeni: which was, I felt that to gaze but not be present, was to destroy something that needed to be
Calvino Rabeni: so in otherwards, not-doing in the wayh I am usted to it, would nave been doing
Calvino Rabeni: I mean, passivity
Calvino Rabeni: Does this make sense?
Eos Amaterasu: so satyagraha was to gaze and to be present?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Calvino Rabeni: It reversed my usual definition of what is doing.
Eos Amaterasu: I think there is an energy and a force required to be present
Eos Amaterasu: and which also seems to come from the presence
Calvino Rabeni: it feels that way surely
Fox Monacular: yes, I agree
Calvino Rabeni: but a kind of energby passes between people
Calvino Rabeni: in a case like that.
Eden Haiku: Ah, I remember a gesture by Peter Brrok, onece in a lecture he was giving. His hand pointing. He was destroying something that needed to be destroyed like with a laser...
Fox Monacular: interesting, gaze, especially in public space, is very culture dependent too in terms of acceptable interplay of energies
Eden Haiku: *Peter Brook
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, but there is a very fast micro-version that happens before culture sets in
Eos Amaterasu: (Peter Brook did a play, The Mahabharata, about Arjuna/Krishna)
Fox Monacular: :)
Calvino Rabeni: It seems more fundamentally human, maybe hardwired
Calvino Rabeni: But you have to perhaps withdraw after that instant
Eden Haiku: Yes, I know. But he was then talking about a South African play.
Fox Monacular: tsorry everyone, I have to go.... pumplin time
Eos Amaterasu: space is part of the ecology of us being together....
Calvino Rabeni: By then, FOx
Eden Haiku: Bye bye Fox. Good nite! I will be leaving also...
Eos Amaterasu: bye fox
Fox Monacular: thanks for the great discussion, i wish i could stay longer
Calvino Rabeni: Bye, Eden. I think of the garden when I hear your name.
Eden Haiku: Bye Eos, Calvino.
Eos Amaterasu: Thank you... have to go as well, good night, all
Fox Monacular: bye everyone
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Eos Amaterasu: Gratitude!