2009.11.12 13:00 - Two truths and a lie

The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

While we are gathering, two Europeans talk about the unseasonal weather. :)

Qt Core: Hi Storm
Storm Nordwind: Hi Qt
Storm Nordwind: How are you today?
Qt Core: a little stressed, not a great day at work, you ?
Storm Nordwind: I'm sorry to hear that. I am simply very hot indeed!
Storm Nordwind: The normal high temperature at this time of year is 12C and the record high ever is 24.5C
Storm Nordwind: Today it's 25C
Qt Core: a nice temp, but 10 over the usual isn't good
Qt Core: Hi eden
Eden Haiku: Hi Qt, Hi Storm!
Storm Nordwind: The low sun means I'm getting sunburn so I'm wearing a hat indoors!
Storm Nordwind: Hi Eden!
Qt Core: you have a lot of window (or at least window in the right position to get so much sun inside)
Storm Nordwind: I have 9 metres of south facing window, yes
Eden Haiku: Solar energy?
Storm Nordwind: This is a condominium, built before those days. But we use next to nothing anyway
Eden Haiku: Thanks to the large windows I suppose.
Storm Nordwind: And being surrounded by other condos
Eden Haiku: ;-)
Qt Core: sadly i grown up used to a lot of light as in elecrtic light
Storm Nordwind: :-/ Qt

Eden tells us a little more about her poetry.

Storm Nordwind: How are your poetry projects coming along Eden?
Eden Haiku: A few more haikus...
Storm Nordwind: Cool!
Storm Nordwind: Can you describe, simply, what you think makes haikus so effective?
Eden Haiku: Haikus captures tiny prims of time, time caps?
Storm Nordwind: Prims of time. I like that.
Storm Nordwind: I suppose they are appropriate to Play as Being with its Prims of Meditation
Qt Core: hi sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi everyone :)
Storm Nordwind: Hi there SophiaSharon
Eden Haiku: Ye4s... This is where I satrted writing haikus. I chose the name because I love poetry. When I came to PaB, the haikus appeared ;-) Hi Sophia!
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Eden Haiku: I so regret never learning to type...
Storm Nordwind: Wonderful Eden! Will you perform them at a reading? Or will you leave them on the page?
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Sophia
sophia Placebo: greetings
Storm Nordwind: Hi sophia!
Qt Core: hi sophia
Eden Haiku: I did a few poetry readings at Blank Verse and a few places. Short ones..I still don't have a mike so the sound is not too good. But I can let you know Storm if you would like.
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind: I'm sure many of us would be interested, so yes please Eden.
SophiaSharon Larnia: :) that would be lovely Eden
arabella Ella: hiya
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Mickorod and Arabella
Storm Nordwind: I'm sure I saw Mick passing through!
SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
sophia Placebo: hi mick ara
Qt Core: hi mick, ara
Mickorod Renard: Hiya,,bit of lag probs
Eden Haiku: Hi Mickorod, Arabella.
Mickorod Renard: Hi Eden

Now that we have a good crowd, I broach the topic of Play as Being RL retreats, since one of our group today has just been to one (sophiaSharon), one is organizing the next one (arabella), and another went to the previous one (me).

Storm Nordwind: SophiaSharon - I wonder if you should maybe do some publicity to encourage people to go to retreats, now you have been to one yourself!
arabella Ella: what an excellent idea :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh yes it has helped me a lot to think of what we are doing here in a tangible/touchable way
SophiaSharon Larnia: sl can be distant

We compare SL and RL practice of PaB.

Storm Nordwind: Do think there are any advantages of SL, or are the advantages all with RL (apart from obvious things like cost)
SophiaSharon Larnia: definately advantages to both
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Storm Nordwind: Could you say more? :)
arabella Ella: yes please?
arabella Ella: we are all so curious
SophiaSharon Larnia: in sl its easier in theory to speak what is on your mind under the cloak of being anonymous
Storm Nordwind: You feel more vulnerable in RL?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: everyone is different
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
SophiaSharon Larnia: but a rl grounds you in a way to practice that in sl is very hard to do

I raise the topic of trust between retreat attendees.

Storm Nordwind: I wonder if that's actually an advantage of RL in a perverse kind of way
Storm Nordwind: Because to make the retreat sessions work, it means you have to trust others and reciprocate their trusting. That can make for a more successful retreat
Storm Nordwind nods
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh yes there was the feeling of trust there, for sure
Zon Quar: hi all
Storm Nordwind: Hello Zon. Welcome
Mickorod Renard: Hi Zon
SophiaSharon Larnia: plus, its good to know this isnt all my imagination! *laughs*
arabella Ella: hiya Zon
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Zon
Storm Nordwind: haha!
Storm Nordwind thinks that if Pema was part of his imagination he'd need to worry! >;^>
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
arabella Ella: he he

That will check to see if Pema is reading this chatlog! ;-)

Mickorod Renard: what bit was your imagination maybe?
Eden Haiku: Hi Zon
SophiaSharon Larnia: i dont how to answer that Storm

SophiaSharon actually meant Mick, not me!

arabella Ella: multiple layers of meaning apparent in that statement Storm
Mickorod Renard: yes,,i WAS JUST WORKIN IT OUT
Mickorod Renard: oops
Eden Haiku: Oops?
Mickorod Renard: for shouting,,sorry
arabella Ella: :)
Mickorod Renard: ;)
Eden Haiku: :-)
Storm Nordwind: We expect at least one shout from you every session Mick. It wouldn't be the same without it!
arabella Ella: was this your first retreat Sophia Sharon?
SophiaSharon Larnia: (whoops thought it was Sorm who said that Mick. :) )
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
arabella Ella: and was there any particular surprise ... anything totally unexpected?
Mickorod Renard: I struggle a little,,for example,,the more PaB has brought some realisation for me,,the more I feel ready to return to real life
arabella Ella: (positive I mean)
SophiaSharon Larnia: it is a mini retreat and i think the term can be used very loosely
Mickorod Renard: yes,,its my clunsy fingers,,and typing in the datk

We talk about the retreat exercises a little.

SophiaSharon Larnia: yes how easy to sink into 10 minute exercises are, in that setting, Ara.
Mickorod Renard: dark
Storm Nordwind nods to SophiaSharon
--BELL--
arabella Ella: not sure what you mean there Sophia Sharon?
SophiaSharon Larnia: I thought it would be difficult to do the 10 min. meditation exercises in a group setting, from self consciousness, distractions, whatever... and it was much easier than i thought... in fact, with others i think its easier.
Storm Nordwind agrees after his PaB retreat experience in California
Eden Haiku: There is a group field energy.
Mickorod Renard: are there things to meditate anout,,some focus presented?
SophiaSharon Larnia: but like Storm said, there is an element of trust
Mickorod Renard: about
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, sometimes
Storm Nordwind nods
Mickorod Renard: ty
Storm Nordwind: Pema often has ideas for objects of meditation
Storm Nordwind: Greetings Wol
Wol Euler: hello invisibles
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Wol
Mickorod Renard: Hi Wol
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
arabella Ella: Hiya Wol
Eden Haiku: HI Invisible one!
Mickorod Renard: I know that I would be in danger of falling asleep under normal circumstances
Qt Core: hi Wol
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles at Mick
Eden Haiku: Here you are;-)
Mickorod Renard: unless I am taking someting apart or putting it back together I would be going crazy
arabella Ella: is it appropriate to ask for an example of one of pema's ideas for focus?
arabella Ella: (to Sophia Sharon and Storm ...)
Storm Nordwind: Your memory is fresher SophiaSharon!
SophiaSharon Larnia: the last one was one min rotation, of you seeing, then being seeing
arabella Ella: cool
SophiaSharon Larnia: we walked around a large pond while 'being seeing' :)
Storm Nordwind: We did a series of meditations in California... progressively shedding parts of our baggage as we went further in search of what was left
SophiaSharon Larnia: letting thoughts arise
SophiaSharon Larnia: wow I wish i couldve done that
arabella Ella: was the Princeton retreat much shorter than the Calif one?
Eden Haiku: How interesting!
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: mini - 2 days
arabella Ella: ah
SophiaSharon Larnia: brb

And we talk a little more about how to develop trust in each other on retreat.

arabella Ella: Storm could you perhaps say something about how trust is built at the start of the RL retreats?
Storm Nordwind: Well it's a gradual process. We work together, we eat together and we talk together. But...
Storm Nordwind: I recall something I teach people on leadership courses...
arabella Ella: yes?
Storm Nordwind: and that is when developing relationships between a leader and team members...
Storm Nordwind: than the way to get people to trust you (because trust is so important)....
Storm Nordwind: is for you first to trust others....
Storm Nordwind: because people tend to reciprocate...
Eden Haiku: ;-) That is so true!
Wol Euler: :)
arabella Ella: yes
Storm Nordwind: and the way to show you trust others is to disclose something that you might not normally...
Mickorod Renard: thats me stuffed then
arabella Ella: model behaviour as a leader
Storm Nordwind: haha!
Wol Euler: awwwww
arabella Ella: BIG secrets you mean?
Storm Nordwind: Not really needed
Storm Nordwind: It can be just personal thoughts and feeling from a meditation (in PaB's case)
arabella Ella: yes

arabella tells us about a trust building game she used to play. It quite captures our imagination and takes over the session from now on!

arabella Ella: i sometimes use an ice breaker called two truths and a lie
Mickorod Renard: I spent most my working life listening to lyes,,and tryin to circumnavigate them,,I have alot of that sort of baggage to dump
Storm Nordwind: No one need know that secretly you're a politician or some other AWFUL secret!
Mickorod Renard: lies
arabella Ella: anyone familiar with it?
Mickorod Renard: sorry
SophiaSharon Larnia: interesting Ara, what is that?
arabella Ella: well the leader starts
arabella Ella: by giving three details
arabella Ella: two are true one is a lie
arabella Ella: and the rest of the group have to guess which is the lie
Wol Euler: ooooh
arabella Ella: so it helps people to get to know more about each other and works well as an ice breaker for training groups
Storm Nordwind: yes indeed...
Storm Nordwind: I did a similar thing at the start of training courses
Mickorod Renard: I am terained in 'Probe' techniques
arabella Ella: helps you to get to know what people do, what they enjoy, how they may be different from how they initially appear to be
Storm Nordwind: Though, instead of the lie, I got people to say something true but REALLY unusual about themselves that we would not be able to guess
--BELL--
Mickorod Renard: trained
SophiaSharon Larnia: what a great idea :)
Storm Nordwind: me gives it a go: "I'm overweight, I have a pilot's license, and I've never eaten a pear"
Wol Euler giggles
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm and one is a lie?
arabella Ella: ok i go for the pear
Storm Nordwind: yes. But which one
Wol Euler: the pear.
arabella Ella: is it the pear Storm?
arabella Ella: i'm so curious now
Storm Nordwind: The pair of pears are correct, yes
arabella Ella: he he
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
arabella Ella: whose next?
arabella Ella: :)

Storm Nordwind watches the tumbleweed roll through the silence ...@... ... ...@...

arabella Ella: ok i'll go next
Wol Euler: I've never had a driver's license, broken a bone, or been south of the equator
arabella Ella: i enjoy golf, i used to teach windsurifing, i have been to senegal in africa
Mickorod Renard: when you have lived for years surrounded by so many untruths,,when you wake up from it its hard to know what is true
arabella Ella: drivers licence Wol
Wol Euler: windsurfing, ara :)
Storm Nordwind: I'll go for the bone Wol
SophiaSharon Larnia: my guess is golf
Storm Nordwind: Senegal is my guess
arabella Ella: one each then
arabella Ella: he he
Wol Euler grins
Storm Nordwind: we're a democratic group
arabella Ella: golf is the lie
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah
arabella Ella: Soph u got it right
Wol Euler: I nearly said that, but then thought that it might suit after all.
Wol Euler: Storm was right, I have broken a few bones
arabella Ella: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: (doesnt like golf either, but like to walk the courses :) )
arabella Ella: we need your lie though Wol not the truth
SophiaSharon Larnia: whoops missed your Wol sorry
Wol Euler: yes, sorry, I should hve phrased them positively, as all truths. My bad.
arabella Ella: :)
Storm Nordwind: It needed a fellow geek to understand
Wol Euler: I somehow found it easier to think of negatives than positives...
SophiaSharon Larnia: this is hard i cant even think of some LOL
SophiaSharon Larnia: that arent obvious (to me)
Mickorod Renard: niether can I s s
Storm Nordwind: The weirdest true thing that someone thought to tell us at the start of a training course was "I do not own a couch". Not that it's weird in itself, but somehow telling us was weird!
Wol Euler: :)
arabella Ella: that is so funny
SophiaSharon Larnia: grins
Eden Haiku: :-)
Mickorod Renard: he he
Eden Haiku: I have to leave now. Bye everyone!
Mickorod Renard: I dont own one now,,I moved into temp accom and it wouldnt fit through the door,,so I dumped it
Storm Nordwind: Bye bye Eden!
arabella Ella: bye Eden
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Eden
Mickorod Renard: bye Eden
Wol Euler: bye eden
Qt Core: bye eden
Wol Euler: ah, too late
arabella Ella: another ice breaker which i sometimes use which we cant use here
arabella Ella: involves asking people to pass on their mobile phone to their neighbour who then puts it away out of sight
arabella Ella: and those with no mobile phone pass on their wrist watch
arabella Ella: they each person is asked to draw their mobile phone or wrist watch
Wol Euler: !
arabella Ella: and it is amazing no one can get it right
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
Wol Euler: yeah, I believe that.
arabella Ella: always ends up being a really funny exercise
Storm Nordwind: And if you own neither, what then? :)
Qt Core: (thinking about being around with none of those today)
SophiaSharon Larnia: wow the things we depend on so much not even well known
Mickorod Renard: mine would be the first expensive one I can escape with
arabella Ella: so far everyone has had either a mobile phone or a wrist watch and we look at each of those so many times each day
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
--BELL--

Stim is travelling this week, but there is an open Ways of Knowing discussion starting in the Cafe.

Storm Nordwind: Changing the subject: Are people going to WoK discussion now in Stim's temporary absence?
Mickorod Renard: will anyone be there?
Storm Nordwind: Five people are there already
Wol Euler: I'm tempted to look in. At the cafe?
Storm Nordwind: Yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: didnt even know it was today (blushes)
Mickorod Renard: sounds good then
Qt Core: i don't usually go
SophiaSharon Larnia: i meant to go so many times and keep forgetting what day it is
Wol Euler: now's your chance :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
Wol Euler: bye for now, my dears.
Mickorod Renard: bye Wol
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Wol
SophiaSharon Larnia: me too, take care all :))
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye
Storm Nordwind: bye for now SophiaSharon
Mickorod Renard: see you Qt,,sleep well
Qt Core: Bye Mick, you too
Storm Nordwind waves
Mickorod Renard: bye Storm
arabella Ella: i must go too
arabella Ella: nite everyone!
Storm Nordwind: I don't believe you ara! ;)
arabella Ella: what dont you believe Storm?
Qt Core: bye ara
Storm Nordwind: that's the lie, yes? :)
arabella Ella: he he
Storm Nordwind: Oh we finished that. Silly me!
arabella Ella: i honestly need an early night ... am feeling a bit poorly
arabella Ella: he he
arabella Ella: otherwise would be going to WoK
Storm Nordwind: awy then shooooo!!!
arabella Ella: nite!
Storm Nordwind waves
Storm Nordwind: Goodnight Qt
Qt Core: 'night storm