2009.11.21 01:00 - Knowledge

The Guardian for this meeting was Scathach Rhiadra. The comments are by Scathach Rhiadra.

Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Qt!
Qt Core: Hi Scath
Scathach Rhiadra: how are you this morning?
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Arch!
Qt Core: quite good, 10am and shopping is already done ;-)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Qt Core: hi Arch
Archmage Atlantis: Hi Scat, Hi QT
Scathach Rhiadra: how are you today Arch?
Archmage Atlantis: I have been having a difficult week, so that means that there are things for me to learn :)
Archmage Atlantis: And you Scath
Archmage Atlantis: ?
Scathach Rhiadra: ah, there are always things for us all to learn:)
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, some are more difficult that others tho :)
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Calvino
Qt Core: Hi Calvino
Archmage Atlantis: Hello, Calvino
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Rhi, QT and Arch!
Scathach Rhiadra: so, has anybody a topic they would like to discuss?
Calvino Rabeni: Well, perhaps. Is this about spiritual?
Calvino Rabeni: THis group and endeavor.
Calvino Rabeni: And how do you hold it?
Archmage Atlantis: I suppose, retaining practice when RL is difficult, and that is indeed spiritual
Scathach Rhiadra: good question, does it seem spiritual to you?
Calvino Rabeni: (considering)
Qt Core: mmm, i usually can't separate spiritual and religion so, if this is the case no, it isn't
Qt Core: for me, that is
Scathach Rhiadra nods at arch, retaining practice during the good and the bad does seem spiritual to me
Archmage Atlantis: Ah, for me religion is just a method of approaching the spiritual
Archmage Atlantis: Personal thought of course
Calvino Rabeni: Is it scientific (also)?
Calvino Rabeni: Do you have a goal or quest?
Archmage Atlantis: Sometimes science can be, but for me that is more of logic and the mind generally
Calvino Rabeni: I know this is vague. But interesting to look at.
Qt Core: using big word... knowledge and peace of mind
Calvino Rabeni: Gnosos, Qt?
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, I suppose that depends on the person, some approach the practice scientifically, some in a more spiritual manner?
Calvino Rabeni: Scath, are certain objectives implied in those two approaches?
Archmage Atlantis: QT, knowlege is often the source of concerns for me.....then resolution comes from within
Calvino Rabeni: Sorry, I sound Socratic.
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: Socrates was a brilliant entity
Qt Core: don't know, calvino, never really tried to define myself (to be honest even if i can grasp the meaning of the term i can't understand it in this context)
Calvino Rabeni: those words dont define us as much as point to a quality or mode of knowing
Qt Core: an interesting question, ignorance or knowledge is the biggest source of concerns/trouble/pain
Qt Core: ?
Archmage Atlantis: To me, Socrates never forgot that he did not, and could not know all, but he could still ask questions
Scathach Rhiadra: I think there must be some goal, even very subtle, otherwise how would anyone start on this path, whether scientific or spiritual?
Calvino Rabeni: Like, are you inside the knowledge, or are you looking at it from the outside as a structure.
Calvino Rabeni: S - of course, but it might be very particular for each person
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Calvino Rabeni: very suble yes. it is hard to see in oneself, because implicit.
Archmage Atlantis: So, Calvino, would another way to say that be that "one can live it, or examine it, both not both at once?"
Calvino Rabeni: S - if there is a path, where does it go?
Calvino Rabeni: Thinking through metaphors.
Scathach Rhiadra: well, it could be a path to knowledge of what is already present, not 'going' anywhere really
Calvino Rabeni: so would the traveler be changed by the journey?
Calvino Rabeni: Like, vastly clever, or some other quality?
Scathach Rhiadra: changed or maybe revealed more fully
Calvino Rabeni: WOuld it help solve puzzles or peoples ethical dilemmas?
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Bertrum!
Calvino Rabeni: Hi bert welcome
Bertrum Quan: Hi everyone.
Archmage Atlantis: I agree Scat, still we are not able, or designed, to see that total path, in my opinion
Archmage Atlantis: Therefore we strugglle
Qt Core: hi bert
Archmage Atlantis: Hiya Bert
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Calvino Rabeni: But then it is an act of faith that the "total path" exists.
Archmage Atlantis: Agree, it is an act of faith/belief.......and not the only one possilbe
Calvino Rabeni: OK
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Calvino Rabeni: the bodhisatva stays in the world. A nice mythic type.
Calvino Rabeni: Is this part of the flavor of PAB? I am a newbie to it.
Qt Core: rl calling, bye all
Bertrum Quan: bye QT
--BELL--
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Qt, have a good day!
Archmage Atlantis: Bye QT
Archmage Atlantis: For me, PaB a form of pratice.....not practice in the since of established method...but a method none the less
Archmage Atlantis: To see more deeply
Calvino Rabeni: When you do the method, do you forego the "ultimate" in order to apprehend the "ordinary"?
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, and the conversations can be of various types, from thetrivial to the sublime, so to speak:)
Archmage Atlantis: And to hear others share honestly so I may learn
Calvino Rabeni: Sharing experiences.
Scathach Rhiadra: is that not assuming a difference between ultimate and ordinary, Calvino?
Calvino Rabeni: Many people assume that. And if they do, it would affect their practice.
Scathach Rhiadra: knowledge of the true nature of the ordinary may be knowledge of the ultimate?
Calvino Rabeni: That makes sense to me.
Calvino Rabeni: But every day we make zillions of choices about what to attend to.
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Calvino Rabeni: And it doesn't hae a neutral effect, so it kind of matters
Calvino Rabeni: I mean, the attending structures the objects that are seen.
Archmage Atlantis: So for me, this practice says "take a brief moment to see outside the normal choices one makes"
Drik Dionysus: hi
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello again Drik
Archmage Atlantis: Hello Drik
Calvino Rabeni: Yeti, you look like a "Resident".
Drik Dionysus: yep
Scathach Rhiadra: that is a good description of the practice Arch:)
Calvino Rabeni: Drik, I think this is the first time I ever felt "Eye contact" in SL.
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Drik Dionysus: i see
Calvino Rabeni: No mouth, cannot eat. Except images.
Scathach Rhiadra: no ears , no sounds?
Calvino Rabeni: A modernist.
Drik Dionysus: you can hear without ears, i think
Archmage Atlantis: Many animals hear sounds without having ears
Drik Dionysus: sound is just a vibration :)
Scathach Rhiadra: ah true
Archmage Atlantis: As is light
Drik Dionysus: but, no, i can't eat
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: In this we differ, all life eats of some other force, even plants "eat" the energy of the earth and sun.
Scathach Rhiadra: you could say 'seeing' is not really about seeing images, but about knowing, so eyes may not be necessary
Calvino Rabeni: so if you were a giant eyeball where would you go for dinner?
Drik Dionysus: i feed my head with images, in fact
Calvino Rabeni: are they very nutritious?
Archmage Atlantis: Images = view
Calvino Rabeni: Scath, I like that
Drik Dionysus: all languages are nutritious
Archmage Atlantis: All life "eats", feeds on other life
Drik Dionysus: but how many "lifes" there are?
Archmage Atlantis: The question is are those images given willingly, or simply taken
Scathach Rhiadra: true Arch, even trees take in the carbon dioxide we expel, seems to be an balanced exchange of life giving between all
Archmage Atlantis: I agree Scathach
Calvino Rabeni: Some say thought originated with movement. Humans identify it with words.
Calvino Rabeni: Can that be looked at as an xperience?
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, movements of the mind?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, or of the body as same thing.
Calvino Rabeni: I never understood, when people say - "I am my thoughts". But I have heard that proposed a lot.
Calvino Rabeni: As an identification.
Drik Dionysus: it is absurd
Calvino Rabeni: Have more Drik?
Scathach Rhiadra nods, we have thoughts, are not them
Drik Dionysus: there must be someone that say "my"
Calvino Rabeni: Can one *move* with intelligence, or is that something that comes in with thinking in words?
Calvino Rabeni: Because very primitive animals eat and move.
--BELL--
Scathach Rhiadra: /
Scathach Rhiadra: but we can also think in images, and you could also say emotions are a type of thought
Scathach Rhiadra: .
Bertrum Quan: Need to head back to RL--battery running out! Have a great weekend everyone.
Calvino Rabeni: they are very intlligent (emotions)
Scathach Rhiadra: you too, Bertrum
Archmage Atlantis: Farewell Bartrum
Calvino Rabeni: Same to you Bert, bye.
Drik Dionysus: bye bert
Scathach Rhiadra: and thoughts seem to feed emotions
Calvino Rabeni: that's worth looking at.
Scathach Rhiadra: or is ti the other way round?
Calvino Rabeni: And the other way around.
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Archmage Atlantis: This will seem off topic, but vampires and werewolves are much in today's literature
Calvino Rabeni: It does seem off topic, but I like zombies more than those.
Scathach Rhiadra: you mean modern literature Arch?
Archmage Atlantis: I read a series of books that classified vampires into black, red and white
Drik Dionysus: i thimk that, if you want to use the term "intelligence", you must find a more definte meaning
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, liturature being written no
Archmage Atlantis: And white vampires fed of of the feelings of others
Archmage Atlantis: I found it to be a useful metaphor
Calvino Rabeni: Could you identify with one of those varieties more than the others?
Archmage Atlantis: Yike, Calvino
Archmage Atlantis: But I did bring the topic up
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Archmage Atlantis: Yes
Calvino Rabeni: not to pry too much
Archmage Atlantis: Ok, I
Archmage Atlantis: saw in myself a tendency to focus on others issues instead of addressing my own issues
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Scathach Rhiadra: I think we all try to avoid addressing our own issues sometimes
Calvino Rabeni: stories about others are a way of addressing one's own issues indirectly, oftimes.
Calvino Rabeni: as a kind of story of mthology.
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, sometimes indirect is OK though.
Archmage Atlantis: In groups I agree Calvino, but with close friends and families the tendency is too strong, and prevents learning
Calvino Rabeni: Dreams - stories we tell ourselves.
Calvino Rabeni: Well you may be right in that case.
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Calvino Rabeni: But the stories get people warmed up to the direct approach.
Calvino Rabeni: If only they could take it a bit farther
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, stories have purpose
Drik Dionysus: bye all
Scathach Rhiadra: well, I must go, thank you all for a great discussion, have a good weekend:)
Calvino Rabeni: bood to meet you drik. Like your avatar.
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Drik
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: Thanks Scathach
Drik Dionysus: thx
Scathach Rhiadra: Namasté