2009.11.08 07:00 - We Stand on the Shoulders of Squirrels

The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Dubrovna. The comments are by Adams Dubrovna.

I was alone for a few minutes and busy wrestling with a hud update and missed Eos and Steve arrive for  a minute or so. We had all been at the retreat in Princeton and opened the session with that

Eos Amaterasu: Hi Adams, Stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: hello, long time :)
Eos Amaterasu: You look different :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: nice seeing you yesterday
stevenaia Michinaga: must be your rose colored glasses
Adams Dubrovna: Hi Steve :)
Adams Dubrovna: Hi Eos
Eos Amaterasu: Special, vivid day yesterday
Adams Dubrovna: Yes it was
Adams Dubrovna: Nice to see you here, I wasn;t expecting you :)
Adams Dubrovna adjusts camera and sees Eos and Steve
Eos Amaterasu: Thought I'd drop in before the guardians mtg
stevenaia Michinaga: I was doing the same
Adams Dubrovna: Great to see you. No brunch this morning?
stevenaia Michinaga: I will not make it as I have some traveling to do todau
stevenaia Michinaga: I'm recovering from my frat boys beer and cheese event :)
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Eos Amaterasu: No, I will meet Pema after the mtg and we'll take the train, me to airport, Newark, he to NYC
Adams Dubrovna nods
Eos Amaterasu: Did beer and cheese live up to expectatins
stevenaia Michinaga: atually, yes, as well as the company
stevenaia Michinaga: I do ahve 1/2 a case remaining if you like stout, something I don;t remember drinking in college
Adams Dubrovna: :)

Steve begins a new thread on the the relationships between SL and RL

stevenaia Michinaga: I had this strange feeling last night that everything that was spoken would end up in a log posted somewhere
Adams Dubrovna: Yes, strange isn't it :)
Adams Dubrovna: seems like it should be
stevenaia Michinaga: ....as SL slowly begins to take over RL
Adams Dubrovna: hehe
stevenaia Michinaga: I read of a construct that in the future computers will be such that , as we control our avatars here, there we ourselves could in fect be a simulation being run by someone with a very powerful computer
--BELL--
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Adams Dubrovna: More intersting might be how our SL activitiedsaffect out RL
stevenaia Michinaga: thier computers jsut happen to ahve the abiliy to give is conciousness
stevenaia Michinaga: give us avatars
stevenaia Michinaga: I'm suggesting our RL could be someone's SL
Adams Dubrovna: yes, I know
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Adams Dubrovna: another way of looking at reality :)
Eos Amaterasu is getting paranoid
stevenaia Michinaga: .... types into eos's avatar
Adams Dubrovna: heh heh
Eos Amaterasu 's hands are moving by themselves
stevenaia Michinaga: lol

Eos turns this to thoughts arising

Eos Amaterasu: Actually, 99% of my thoughts just happen
Eos Amaterasu: I think that "I" think them, but I notice that really they just come up
Adams Dubrovna: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: plenty of room for them to be someone elses
Eos Amaterasu: Most of them are
Eos Amaterasu: We repeat phrases and cliches
stevenaia Michinaga: we say creativity "happens", as do "new" ideas, perhaps they are places there by our good fairy when needed
stevenaia Michinaga: *placed
stevenaia Michinaga: (one explanation)
Adams Dubrovna: Maybe we are the computers and just reprocessing input
stevenaia Michinaga: Who (what) gave Einstein the implasable ability to see what he saw to change science in that way
stevenaia Michinaga: I prefer the little fairy theory
Adams Dubrovna: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: explains all perfectly, cept where the little fairies come from
Adams Dubrovna: Maybe he a Mac instead of a PC :)
Eos Amaterasu: fairies... kamis... dralas... spirits... how Being speaks?
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Adams Dubrovna: :)

Celtic Fairies as Guardians

Eos Amaterasu: I went to a presentation on Celtic fairies in Cape Breton.... not just cute little thingies with wings
Eos Amaterasu: they guard and take care of places
Adams Dubrovna: Hello Adelene :)
Eos Amaterasu: hmm, guardians?
Eos Amaterasu: speaking of beings with wings, hi Adelene
Adelene Dawner: Hi, all. :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hugs adelene
Adelene Dawner purrs ^.^
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Eos Amaterasu: rub, rub
Eos Amaterasu: we were talking about where thoughts, ideas, come from... maybe from faeries....
Eos Amaterasu: muses

We try an idea that Eos had proposed during the retreat

Adams Dubrovna: It is close to the 90 second stop
Adams Dubrovna: I've never noticed gthe fairies watching my thoughts :)
Adelene Dawner: Maybe I'm a party pooper, but: Recombined memes, with the occasional ligical extension of a known concept to add a new meme to the mix.
Adelene Dawner: *logical
stevenaia Michinaga: I suppose this comes from the excercise yesterday at the retreat about watching those thoughts arise
Adelene Dawner: (Or typo or misremembering, to add a bit of variance :) )
Eos Amaterasu: or letting being see
Eos Amaterasu: Shal we watch how, where perceptions, thoughts arise?
Adams Dubrovna: sounds good
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Adams Dubrovna: for 90 seconds
Eos Amaterasu tightens belt
--BELL--
Adams Dubrovna: I was very aware of how the senses trigger thoughts but when I close my eyes, it seems to be a random generator
Adams Dubrovna: as you noted Eos, there is a collection of other peoples thoughts seekingly stored there
stevenaia Michinaga: I must be off, enjoy your day
Adams Dubrovna: bye Steve. Have good travels
Eos Amaterasu: bye Stevenaia
Adelene Dawner: cya, Steve :)
Eos Amaterasu: happy trails
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Ade, Eos Adams
Adams Dubrovna: Would anyone else like to report?
Eos Amaterasu: Watching things happen out the window, squirrels, some planning thoughts coming up,they just come up
Eos Amaterasu: busy place, my mind
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Adams Dubrovna: like squirrels :)
Adams Dubrovna: ?

Thoughts extending from exisiting thoughts

Eos Amaterasu: Adelene, you were suggesting we logicaly extend from existing thoughts?
Adelene Dawner: Sorry, the cat was demanding attention - yes, we do seem to.
Eos Amaterasu: we stand on the shoulders of squirrels :-)
Eos Amaterasu: question is, how does that extension happend?
Adelene Dawner: I have an example that might be useful, even though it isn't very strong.
Adams Dubrovna: so much for Creationism (to standing on shoulders comment)
Adams Dubrovna listens
Adelene Dawner: Vegetarianism has never *really* made much sense to me. We're designed to be omnivorous, it's a pain to pay enough attention to your diet to be healthy without eating animal products, all the usual lines of reasoning.

Kyriarchy and Vegetarianism

Adelene Dawner: Then I found this word: http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/2009/08/kyriarchy/
Adelene Dawner: And I was thinking about it in different contexts. When I got to 'humans having power over animals', I went 'oh... oh, right'. I'm considering vegetarianism, or at least cutting down on how much meat I eat, now.
Eos Amaterasu: HIerarchy as itself a dominating meme?
Eos Amaterasu finds squees comments funny in exactly that sense
Adelene Dawner: Something like that, Eos. It's not emphasized as much as I'd like there, but one part of the kyriarchy meme is that who has more power is situational.
Eos Amaterasu: How does that relate to extending to "my novel contribution" from existing thoughts, ideas?
--BELL--
Adelene Dawner: The example is weak, because I'd heard of vegetarianism before, but I suspect I might've invented it if I hadn't already known about it. And that understanding of how I'm personally using my power in that kind of situation is new to me, and I definitely hadn't had that bit of understanding before, or, I think, been exposed to it.
Adelene Dawner: (A better kyriarchy link: http://unapologeticallyfat.blogspot....archy-101.html )
Eos Amaterasu: So notion of kyriarchy was a stepping stone (shoulder?) allowing a new insight onto vegetarianism?
Adelene Dawner: Yep.
Eos Amaterasu: So there was genuine "ingression of novelty" at that point
Adelene Dawner: And it let me articulate a few other ideas that I'd been working on so that I can progress on them, too, though no notable insights yet.
Adelene Dawner: *nods*
Adams Dubrovna: You may intersted in this see #1: http://rubblebornthoughts.wordpress..../08/dying-456/
Adelene Dawner nods at Adams.
Eos Amaterasu: Wow, pretty intese!
Eos Amaterasu: *intense
Adams Dubrovna: Helllo Doug
Eos Amaterasu: Hi doug
Adelene Dawner: Hi, Doug.
Adams Dubrovna: Power on relationships si something I have tried my best to avoid
Eos Amaterasu: Were you still "aware" in that blackness, Adams?
Adams Dubrovna: There are many people who think in those terms though
Adelene Dawner: I don't know if it's really avoidable, Adams, and if it's not, ignoring it will make it worse. It seems better to me to be aware.
Adams Dubrovna: That's a tricky question Eos. I wasn't that aware at the time, I may have been a bit shicked ast the turn of events
Adams Dubrovna: I don;t mean not to be aware but to refuse to play that game Adelene
Adelene Dawner: *nods*
Adams Dubrovna: neither the victim nor the powerful one
Eos Amaterasu: Although if we eat chicken we play that game, so Adelene you are considering not playing that game (with meat)?
Adams Dubrovna nods to Eos
Adelene Dawner: Or playing it more thoughtfully, anyway.
Eos Amaterasu: hmm
Adelene Dawner: I don't seem to function as well when I don't eat meat regularly, so it's a question of how to strike a balance. I'm still thinking about what that balance should look like.
Eos Amaterasu: there's some inevitability to playing life/death games in our interdependent world, but I guess we can tune that somewhat
Eos Amaterasu: (tofu with good sauces can be quite tasty and proteinaceous :-)
Adams Dubrovna: Sometimes new ideas take a while to take hold in us
Eos Amaterasu: I will segue to the Guardians meeting
Adams Dubrovna: new ideas to us that is
Adams Dubrovna: yes, almost time to go
Eos Amaterasu: thank u both for the conversation
Adams Dubrovna: thank you both :)
Adelene Dawner: I have some cleaning to do, so I guess I'll go. And the cat wants more petting. *chuckle*
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Eos Amaterasu: Bye, Ade
Adams Dubrovna: bye Adelene. good to see you :)
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Eos Amaterasu: Which way, lose sense of direction
Adams Dubrovna: i use the map