2009.11.19 13:00 - Regularity

The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

Storm Nordwind: Welcome Qt
Qt Core: ty, hi Storm
Qt Core: hi wol
Storm Nordwind: Greetings Wol!
Wol Euler: hello qt, storm, zon
Storm Nordwind: Not sure if Zon is with us yet! :)
Wol Euler: :)
Storm Nordwind: Anything anyone wants to talk about... or do? Or shall we just enjoy the silence? :)
Wol Euler: it's not PaB related, but I am still thinking about something htat happened on Monday
Wol Euler: or we could be silent
Storm Nordwind: I'll leave that to your judgment Wol :)
Qt Core: hi calvino
Wol Euler: hello calvino
Storm Nordwind: Hi Calvino
Calvino Rabeni: Good afternoon!
Storm Nordwind: Not for Wol and Qt :)
Wol Euler: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Rain and storm, actually
Wol Euler: evening here, actually, but I'll accept hte "good" part of it
Calvino Rabeni: What time is it in this sim place?
Qt Core: i find the tell me a story and the name calvino a very nice coupling, read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvino for the reason
Qt Core: hi Yak
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Wol Euler: hello yakuzza
Wol Euler nods to QT. One of my favourite authors.
Storm Nordwind: I once had an avatar I named after a favorite artist

But which one would be telling! ;)

Wol Euler: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Some consider I. C. postmodern as an author. But is there "post post"?
Zon Quar: hi all
Storm Nordwind: Aha... Zon awakes!
Storm Nordwind: Welcome :)
Wol Euler: hello zon
Zon Quar: ty:)
Zon Quar: what is the topic or is there one ?
--BELL--

I raise a topic about the regularity of 9 second meditations, originally suggested as every 15 minutes. How does that work for people?

Storm Nordwind: There wasn't one, but I will start one :)
Zon Quar: shoot
Wol Euler: ((symmetry))
Zon Quar: (doesnt complain)
Storm Nordwind: How do people feel about integrating the 9 second practice in their daily lives? I find it makes me more relaxed to do the practice (at a simple level) but I guess it's possible to get unrelaxed about the regularity of it or about intruding impressions. What does anyone think?
Zon Quar: it makes me calmer
Wol Euler: I found it frustrating and annoying until I stopped trying to do it by the clock.
Storm Nordwind: Right Wol! :)
Zon Quar: gives distance to the identification on the situation at hand
Storm Nordwind: That sounds good Zon. Would you like to say more?
Zon Quar: yes,, i dont do it regurlarky either
Zon Quar: just remind me daily
Zon Quar: severeal times
Zon Quar: esåecoally if i feel anxiouty
Storm Nordwind: haha Zon! So there's the standard meditation paradox here, a little like "Try really hard to relax!"
Zon Quar: just watch
Zon Quar: and it relaxes
Zon Quar: by itself
Storm Nordwind: Yes
Wol Euler nods
Zon Quar: and i try to remind me not to control teh situation
Storm Nordwind: So if the regularity can be annoying (and I'm sure some might say they sometimes find it impractical), what is the value of the 15 minute interval?
Zon Quar: to start it i guess
Wol Euler shrugs. I'm not saying that it has no value, just that it doesn't work *for me*
Storm Nordwind smiles
Zon Quar: if u dont schedule a thing..it wont happen easyly
Zon Quar: u tend to forget
Storm Nordwind: I suspect that's a large part of it Zon
Calvino Rabeni: You can arrange other reminders besides the timer
Zon Quar: yes
Calvino Rabeni: You just associate them mentally
Calvino Rabeni: when I see this, I do the thing
Qt Core: i can't say mine, even at random times in the 9 sec practice, i just stop and refocus/check the world when i feel i need it
Qt Core: in=is
Storm Nordwind: What have you found works in that way Calvino?
Wol Euler: hello eliza
Qt Core: hi eliza
Zon Quar: hi eliza
Storm Nordwind: Welcome Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol, Storm, Calvino, Zon, Qt. Thank you :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hey, Ya
Calvino Rabeni: it is arbitrary, but during transitions between different activities, mostly.
Storm Nordwind nods
Calvino Rabeni: Like before I sit down at the desk, or after, or when I leave the house
Storm Nordwind: And comparing it to the regular 15 minutes, how have you found it? (Or did you go straight to this method?)
Calvino Rabeni: Those transitions are less well defined in terms of habits, so they are kind of natural junctures between different clusters of habits. (That sounds complicated I guess, but the experience is simple)
Calvino Rabeni: I mean, thos times are when a kind of identity shift happens
Calvino Rabeni: You put on a different face
Zon Quar: nods..a little pause
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind: That's really useful Calvino. Thank you :)
Calvino Rabeni: YW
Wol Euler: yes, a good tip.

So the assembled crowd are not that regular. But is 15 minutes still good for helping people get started?

Storm Nordwind: I guess I'm interested from an educator's point of view... Is the regular 15 minute a good way to start and then find that you iterate towards something more personal. Would that be a recommendation you'd make to others?
Calvino Rabeni: that makes sense to me
Wol Euler nods. I think it is a good place to start, and if it works for you then that
Wol Euler: that's great.
Wol Euler: (new keybord, the apostrophe is a tiny bit too close to Return)
Calvino Rabeni: whatever works!
Storm Nordwind watches topic #1 quickly run out of steam :)
Wol Euler smiles
Calvino Rabeni: What kind of education did you mean, storm?
Storm Nordwind: Before moving to the US, I was a professional educator for a few years. I'm interested in applying that to helping people get started with PaB
Storm Nordwind: What are the best ways to do that? Are there as many best ways as there are people? :)
Qt Core: the fixed time may be useful for people that are doing sometimg long but easil interruptible
Storm Nordwind nods to Qt
Qt Core: i already have issues keeping my concentration at work, another interruption would be not welcomed ;-)
Storm Nordwind: I can sympathize with that Qt!
Wol Euler: hello ari
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ari :)
Qt Core: hi arisia
Arisia Vita: Hi all
Storm Nordwind: We've floated the idea of introductory sessions, as well as buddy-mentoring... anything that helps people get the most out of the practice and helps it stick.
Storm Nordwind: Hi Ari
Zon Quar: ari
Calvino Rabeni: QT, it can seem like an interruption for sure, but it could also be a tathering together of attention for mor effective work.
Calvino Rabeni: gathering
Qt Core: yes, the refocusing part i call it, but i do that when i feel i'm loosing concentration, so when an interruption is happening anyway
Qt Core: or just restarting after an external interruption, almost like you said before
Calvino Rabeni: that sounds like an effective strategy
Wol Euler: that does sound like a good idea. It never occurred to me :) I'll try that in the office
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind: Maybe it depends on whether your task is best done with foreground concentration or background in the subconscious. Perhaps it's effective for one rather than the other?
Zon Quar: gtg, goodnigth all
Wol Euler: bye zon, take care
Storm Nordwind: Goodnight Zon
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Zon :)
Arisia Vita: bye Zon, be well and happy

We talk about cultural sensitivity in education.

Calvino Rabeni: Education for adults, storm? (apropo of earlier)
Calvino Rabeni: Also it is culturally sensitive
Storm Nordwind: In my case professionally, yes for adults. And I'm aware of cultural sensitivities as I had American, European and Asian students
Storm Nordwind: Though I hadn't yet put much thought into, say, Asian ways of doing things wrt PaB
Calvino Rabeni: Not just that, but for instande, in America as elsewhere there are many subcultures with very different sensibilities
Storm Nordwind: So how would you address those?
Calvino Rabeni: I don't think there's a trick to make it easy, but some awareness and insight provides clues
Calvino Rabeni: for instance a friend is trying to introduce mindfulness techniques
Calvino Rabeni: to a group that consists of military people. And along with that there is an element of christian fundamentalism.
Storm Nordwind: But are these people who want to be taught? Or is someone else telling them to be taught?
Calvino Rabeni: So he has to try to work it in the context of those attitudes and possibly, hot-button issues
Calvino Rabeni: And he studies someone else's mistakes
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, they want to be taught.
Storm Nordwind: Interesting. Yes the fundies are a whole new culture to me. Even Scottish sectarianism was not like this!
Wol Euler nods
Calvino Rabeni: He needs to have an idea WHY they want to learn.
Calvino Rabeni: And what limits they have.
Calvino Rabeni: MEaning, where they won't go.
Storm Nordwind: Yes. Essential things. That take time. And often difficult in a group context.
Calvino Rabeni: Yes on all that. Sorry, can't take magic shortcuts :)
Storm Nordwind: Oh I wasn't suggesting there were any! :)
Calvino Rabeni: THere must be some :)
Storm Nordwind: I'm exploring what ways might be good to offer
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Storm, everyone. :) Bye for now. Much to think about in this topic... sorry few thoughts so far! :)
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps your friend might be interested in helping here too ;)
Wol Euler: bye eliza, take care
Storm Nordwind: OK bye Eliza
Calvino Rabeni: Bye E/

It's time for another workshop.

Storm Nordwind: Stim's Ways of Knowing workshop is due in a minute or two I think
Storm Nordwind: In the Kira Cafe
Wol Euler: right, he just logged on.
Storm Nordwind: Yes, and there are 4 people there already.
Calvino Rabeni: I will go there also
Storm Nordwind: Why don't we go together then? :)
Wol Euler: let's do :)
Calvino Rabeni: Is there a "group transport"?

Although the balloon will take a small group, we elect to go to Ways of Knowing one by one.

Wol Euler: goodnight to eveyone who's not going.
Storm Nordwind: OK. Bye anyone who's not joining us :)
Storm Nordwind waves
Qt Core: 'night all