2009.11.28 13:00 - Meeps about Space, Witness, and Focus

The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by SophiaSharon Larnia. This session was attended by Fael Illyar, Calvino Rabeni, Eliza Magrigal, Bertram Jacobus, and Agatha Macbeth. There were a few topics discussed here, several at the same time. This seems to happen frequently at the sessions where I am the GoC, I'll try to be more focused in the future.

Fael Illyar came to meep here.
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Fael!
SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
Fael Illyar: Hi Sharon :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Calvino :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Calvino
Fael Illyar: Hi Eliza :)
Calvino Rabeni: Hello!
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fael! Hi Calvino, Sharon! :)
Eliza Madrigal is sneaking a minute until my son comes to take the computer ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
SophiaSharon Larnia is feeling like a spiritual dud, so I may be quiet
Fael Illyar: just meep :)
Calvino Rabeni: Dud as Being :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: ~ meeps~
Eliza Madrigal: Well maybe because you put so much nice energy into your scribe, which I just read :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: \grins
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Fael Illyar smiles.
Fael Illyar meeps along.
SophiaSharon Larnia: i woke up with that story in my head, I wish I could write
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, it is so nice :)
Eliza Madrigal: http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_Scribe..._as_Being_Cafe'
SophiaSharon Larnia: does anyone have anything they want to talk about?
SophiaSharon Larnia: my version says theres not text on the page
SophiaSharon Larnia: no*
Fael Illyar: we can meep! :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, let me see...http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_..._as_Being_Cafe'
SophiaSharon Larnia: its below it on the left
Eliza Madrigal: That's happened before... has something to do with using apostrophes on the wiki :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: oooh
SophiaSharon Larnia: I cant write forward, I always end up going sideways
Eliza Madrigal: sideways?
SophiaSharon Larnia: i cant say what i mean flat out, i have to allude to it through a different way
SophiaSharon Larnia: in certain areas i mean
SophiaSharon Larnia: i envy your ability Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Sure, and that's okay... adds texture...subtext, etc
Eliza Madrigal: Oh please don't say that, but thanks I think
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I think the obstacle is self-consciousness... a bit like what Qt mentioned in this morning's session... bypassing the critic
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, my best stuff is written on a receipt in the car
Eliza Madrigal: and allowing oneself to show weakness/imperfections...
Eliza Madrigal smiles
SophiaSharon Larnia: but I think it was in reference to being open to others before yourself
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: Isn't that a little the same...
SophiaSharon Larnia: i tend to think, to betruely open, you have to be honest with yourself first
Fael Illyar: exactly
Eliza Madrigal listens
Fael Illyar: if you want to hide things from yourself, you can't show them to others either.
SophiaSharon Larnia: like loving others, you truely can not unless you love yourself, at least thats what ive heard
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, for me I can see that with acceptance....
Fael Illyar: sharing is caring :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: i float in the space of nothing-important today, it's nice here
Eliza Madrigal: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Bertram
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bertram :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Bert :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Agatha :)
Bertram Jacobus: hey all :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Agatha
Agatha Macbeth: Hello everybody
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Agatha :)
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Bert
Agatha Macbeth: How is everyone?
Eliza Madrigal: Well thanks, you?
Fael Illyar: I'm good :)

--BELL--

Agatha Macbeth: Fine mate
SophiaSharon Larnia: good, and you? It's nice to see you here Agatha, I've seen you around the village
Bertram Jacobus: mixed. mostly. ty :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Have you been here beforeAgatha? I think you have?
Agatha Macbeth: I've just been looking at the new building
Agatha Macbeth: Yes, a few times
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok
Eliza Madrigal: The museum is coming along nicely :)
Agatha Macbeth: Been touring for a coupla months
Agatha Macbeth: It sure is!
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: It will open officially mid December
Agatha Macbeth: Great :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bertram Jacobus: new building ? museum ? where ? ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Calvino Rabeni: I wanted to ask, what is in the floating silver spheres?
Agatha Macbeth: Oh Bert :-)
Fael Illyar: silver spheres? where?
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, in the village, Bert ... See the large brick appearing structure?
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, I think that's part of the astronomy group structure Calvino...
Agatha Macbeth: UFOs maybe?
Bertram Jacobus: not yet. i´ll have a look or search. ty :o)
Eliza Madrigal grins
Calvino Rabeni: Is that a Kira initiative too?
SophiaSharon Larnia: i beleive it is
Eliza Madrigal: Fael, from inside village hall you can see the spheres...yes, I think for Kira...
Eliza Madrigal: So much going on around here :)
Fael Illyar: Ah :)
Eliza Madrigal dares not take interest in anything else...haha
SophiaSharon Larnia: grins
Agatha Macbeth: Wake up Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Agatha Macbeth: Hee hee
Agatha Macbeth: The cafe's looking very snowy I see
Bertram Jacobus: me too : the only sl activities are the meetings here ...
Eliza Madrigal: Mm, yes the snow is nice...
Eliza Madrigal: And really Bert?
Bertram Jacobus: yes. in former times i did more in sl ...
Agatha Macbeth: It gets to a point where it just seems to be more of the same
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, it waxes and wanes I suppose... times when something sparks interest/engagement
Agatha Macbeth: The clothes shops are good tho :)
Bertram Jacobus: yes eliza. that is my impression too
SophiaSharon Larnia: just recently moved off the mainland, so i may never be seen again p
Agatha Macbeth: Awww :(
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
Eliza Madrigal: ? mainland?
Eliza Madrigal does not know her SL terminology.. What constitutes mainland her?
Eliza Madrigal: *here
Fael Illyar: mainland is this continuous large group of regions where you can just walk through them.
Calvino Rabeni: I think we are on the mainland now,yes?
Eliza Madrigal: oooh, I see
SophiaSharon Larnia: the sims that are connected, that are not private sims or homesteads
Fael Illyar: islands are more or less separated places.
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Fael Illyar: yep, PaB land is mainland
SophiaSharon Larnia: i was kidding
Eliza Madrigal: You are expanding to have a wider filed Sharon?
Agatha Macbeth: Is there just one mainland?
Calvino Rabeni: I noticed we are at altitude 103. Is there something underneath?
Calvino Rabeni: Caves, tunnels?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes i needed to leave more of my mess around
Fael Illyar: there are many mainland islands
Eliza Madrigal: Field I meant...Oh
Eliza Madrigal: that makes sense :) Your boundless creativity
Agatha Macbeth: Ah I see
SophiaSharon Larnia: boundless HA
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Fael Illyar: each one has hundreds of regions I think
Calvino Rabeni: Can a builder make a hole in the grass here and go underneath?
Calvino Rabeni: Or build a basement :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: it only goes so far
Agatha Macbeth: Isn't it all water underneath?
SophiaSharon Larnia: i think its pixels :)
Agatha Macbeth: Yeah
Bertram Jacobus: i don´t know cal
Fael Illyar: the water is quite a few meters down from here.
Calvino Rabeni: Interesting, 103 meters of something under us
Calvino Rabeni: before water
SophiaSharon Larnia: interesting, the idea of our avatrs as us
Bertram Jacobus: virtuality ? pure virtuality ? ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: 103 meters pure virtuality ? :-)
Agatha Macbeth: That's a lot of virtuality!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bertram Jacobus: lol yes. virtual space ... fascinating ...
Agatha Macbeth: What exactly do u mean by virtual space Bert?
Bertram Jacobus: the 103 meters under us for example
Calvino Rabeni: I propose, during the timeout, notice space equally in all directions around
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Agatha Macbeth: Hmmm
Eliza Madrigal: in a way it is a good example of space made which has room for an entire other universe, from nowhere... as obvious as our noses

--BELL--

Fael Illyar: Hi Wol :)
Bertram Jacobus: hi wol ! ... :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Wol
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol. We are considering the reaches of space :)
Wol Euler: I just got a debugging message that the session ended. did somebody stop the recorder?
SophiaSharon Larnia: no i dont think so
Fael Illyar: not that I saw.
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, didn't see any message Wol
SophiaSharon Larnia: ill retreive off my hard drive
Fael Illyar: it looks to be still recording
Calvino Rabeni: that log problem was happening last inght SLT also
Wol Euler: huh
Fael Illyar: the server may have been down since friday.
SophiaSharon Larnia: does anyone want to talk about there experience noticing space?
Fael Illyar: although, it's quite possible it started after 1AM session today.
Calvino Rabeni: I noticed the space felt lop-sided
Agatha Macbeth: I tend to notice it more when there isn't any
Fael Illyar: ah, no 1AM session in the database.
Calvino Rabeni: bigger in front, compressed to the rear
Agatha Macbeth: Like a parking space
Calvino Rabeni: A lot focused areound the monitor
Wol Euler: well, I shall leave you for now, if the thing is still running. bfn
Bertram Jacobus: i learned that space is a great quality or aspect, by lamas of tibetan buddhism ...
SophiaSharon Larnia: bfn Wol!
Eliza Madrigal: :)Bye Wol
Agatha Macbeth: Bye
Bertram Jacobus: bye wol
Calvino Rabeni: : wol
Fael Illyar: looks to be running to me.
Fael Illyar: Bertram, which lineage, by the way?
Bertram Jacobus: karma kagyu, traditional
SophiaSharon Larnia: interesting Calvino, and Agatha
Calvino Rabeni: space feels intimate with movement
Agatha Macbeth: What did I say that was interesting?
SophiaSharon Larnia: comments about space
Agatha Macbeth: Oh
Fael Illyar: I've been going to a local modernized Karma Kagyu center and have been warned that different lineages have differing meanings for same terms and quite a different concept model for some things.
Bertram Jacobus: and i like the comparison mind / space ... as similar ...
Eliza Madrigal: Sure, I suppose that's true Fael...
SophiaSharon Larnia: I seem to do the 9 sec most frequently when my body is actually in movement, I don't know why that is
Eliza Madrigal: At the same time, one can focus on essentials and many things seem to come to a point of focus? Compassion for instance...
Eliza Madrigal: Neat, Sharon... maybe circulation related?
SophiaSharon Larnia: just a sense of my mind suspeded but still moving
Bertram Jacobus: i appreciate the common AND diverging aspects of the things, elements, aspects and lineages fael ...
SophiaSharon Larnia: suspended*
Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps you are a kinesthetic thinker, Sharon.
SophiaSharon Larnia: indeed
Eliza Madrigal nods... seems so... very tactile
Fael Illyar: Bertram, of course. Just it's easy to be confused if you don't know the context.
Bertram Jacobus: i see what you mean :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: but if im distracted enough, theres a second of being out of body
Eliza Madrigal: fael, it is really nice that you've found a center that you feel at home in...
Agatha Macbeth: Spooky
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Fael Illyar smiles.
SophiaSharon Larnia: brb phone
Agatha Macbeth: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Whats the "out of body" experience?
Calvino Rabeni: OK
Agatha Macbeth: It's when you feel you're looking down on yourself
Agatha Macbeth: From a great height usually
Calvino Rabeni: Usually above, as commly reported?
Agatha Macbeth: I believe so yes
Calvino Rabeni: Seems a but odd
Calvino Rabeni: BIt odd
Agatha Macbeth: Not unlike near death experiences
Fael Illyar: Well, I'd best head to bed.
Fael Illyar: Good night everyone :)
Agatha Macbeth: Sleep well
Bertram Jacobus: good night fael
Eliza Madrigal: Night Fael
SophiaSharon Larnia: back and reading, bye Fael!!
Bertram Jacobus: welcome again ssl :-)
Agatha Macbeth: :)
Eliza Madrigal is afk for a second... printing pictures of money from Madagascar for my son
SophiaSharon Larnia: thanks :) :)) Eliza
SophiaSharon Larnia: out of body...i've heard so many things about it, hard to seperate them
SophiaSharon Larnia: one, that its a dream
Agatha Macbeth: I've never experienced it personally

--BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: some sort of precognition, or (whats the word for remote cognition?), another that the brain is starved for oxygen.
Agatha Macbeth: Tho I do feel like I've fallen from a great height when I'm asleep sometimes
Agatha Macbeth: Like falling back into your body
SophiaSharon Larnia: the way i meant it is, its like this me carries on what she was doing, and then there is another mind me seeing it
Agatha Macbeth: Ah, interesting
SophiaSharon Larnia: the one seeing takes over, just for that second
SophiaSharon Larnia: shrugs
Eliza Madrigal: the witness, perhaps...
SophiaSharon Larnia: ive been having issues with that term lately too, i watched agels of desire, Eliza, which brought it up again
SophiaSharon Larnia: angels*
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, did you see that.... a wonderful film
Bertram Jacobus: thanks all for the talk - and may all beings be happy, please ! ...
Eliza Madrigal: I can't bring myself to return it :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Bye Bertram
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bert. Good to see you
Agatha Macbeth: Have fun bert
Bertram Jacobus: ty very much again . and best wishes ! :-)
Agatha Macbeth: Sayonara
SophiaSharon Larnia: did anyone else here see it?
Agatha Macbeth: I don't know it SSL, what's it about?
SophiaSharon Larnia: i dont want to spoil it for anyone reading the logs :))
Agatha Macbeth: Oh, OK
Agatha Macbeth: I'll look it up on IMDB
Eliza Madrigal: there are some wonderful themes though.... that we can talk about
Eliza Madrigal: like a feeling of wandering, noticing, without connection....
SophiaSharon Larnia: but mainly had an issue with the idea of there being a witness that observes, rather than the experiences being experienced for the sake of experience alone
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok awkward way to say that!
Eliza Madrigal: but understandable
Agatha Macbeth: Hmm
Eliza Madrigal: Agatha, the whole film is a poem...
SophiaSharon Larnia: reinforced the idea that we experience things.... because we are the witnesses, not *something* else
Agatha Macbeth: Riiiight....
Agatha Macbeth: Who's in it?
Eliza Madrigal: http://www.wim-wenders.com/movies/mo...gsofdesire.htm
Agatha Macbeth: Is that THE Peter Falk?
Eliza Madrigal: Yes!
Agatha Macbeth: No raincoat then?
SophiaSharon Larnia: whoops sorry! see, i shouldve said i couldnt come to this session im a mess
Agatha Macbeth: Wow, how old is he now?
Eliza Madrigal: One question I think we can say... which comes at the beginning... is this idea of a child asking "Why am I me and not you"
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah I loved that
Agatha Macbeth: You're not a mess SSL!
Eliza Madrigal: Not at all
SophiaSharon Larnia: grins
Agatha Macbeth: Not compared to me anyway!
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Eliza Madrigal: or me...haha
Agatha Macbeth: awwww
Eliza Madrigal: Sigh...have to go. Nice to see you all :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Eliza, I have to go in a minute too
Agatha Macbeth: Bye Eliza, good to see you again
Eliza Madrigal is amazed she was able to stay the session today, aside from some distractions. You too Agatha!
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now
SophiaSharon Larnia: b4n
Agatha Macbeth: Think I'll head off to Hanja, see what's going on there
Calvino Rabeni: Hmm, everybody disappeared.
Agatha Macbeth: Bye all, good to see you again
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Agatha, come back soon :))
Calvino Rabeni: I was off IM'ing.
Agatha Macbeth: I will :)
Calvino Rabeni: SSL, do you scribe?
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have been
SophiaSharon Larnia: you interested in doing it?
Calvino Rabeni: I don't understand yet, what that is for.
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Calvino Rabeni: But yes, I may be able and want to

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: Or in some other way contribute, with time rather than money
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm... its explained as a 'tourist impression' or someone passing through the logs, what they would see
SophiaSharon Larnia: it can be simple, and easy, other times not as easy
SophiaSharon Larnia: can i ask you a question if you have a minute?
Calvino Rabeni: Of course, any time
SophiaSharon Larnia: you said in another log, you were interested in conceptual oriented focus rather that awareness focused
Calvino Rabeni: I am interested in every focus, in balance.
SophiaSharon Larnia: can you descibe that a little, I still didnt understand
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Calvino Rabeni: There is not a real separation between experience and concept
Calvino Rabeni: in that everything we perceive immediatly becomes concept
Calvino Rabeni: and that concept guides and forms what we perceive in experience.
Calvino Rabeni: Experience is a complicated and dynamic process mixing different levels of mind together.
Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps in meditative states they get separated
Calvino Rabeni: BUt in ordinary consciousness they are thoroughly mixed.
SophiaSharon Larnia: how that concept fits into our preconceived views, changes the experience
Calvino Rabeni: FOr this reason, when people get interested in meditation, they often try to reduce their conceptual activity
SophiaSharon Larnia: or the interpretation of it
Calvino Rabeni: Yes that happens,you are right
Calvino Rabeni: Interpretation happens before the phenomenon is grasped by the mind
Calvino Rabeni: completely unconscious, for the most part
SophiaSharon Larnia: and the difference you were speaking of, is not reduce the conceptual activity?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes. I think it is useful as an exercise, but in my opinon is not any kind of goal
SophiaSharon Larnia: another exploration
Calvino Rabeni: The exercise is to bring things back into balance
Calvino Rabeni: are you American?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, im in PA
Calvino Rabeni: OK, a lot of these practices are like Affirmative Action programs
Calvino Rabeni: The idea is to do something artificial to rebalance the system.
Calvino Rabeni: But it is not a correct thing in an absolute sense
Calvino Rabeni: That is, only good to the point of encouraging balance or compensating for something out of balance.
SophiaSharon Larnia: neither is ceasing conceptual awareness
Calvino Rabeni: I think one can learn "right and wrong use" of the mind.
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Calvino Rabeni: There's no alternative, really. This is where we live.
SophiaSharon Larnia: thank you for explaining that, I understand now, its simpler than i thought
Calvino Rabeni: People get enthusiastic about their practices, their exercises.
Calvino Rabeni: That is OK, but it doesn't help to extrapolate it into a generalization about what is the right way to be
Calvino Rabeni: The exercises are for flexibility
Calvino Rabeni: You are welcome
SophiaSharon Larnia: the right way to be, is a generalization based on previous conceptions though
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, usually ideas someone heard from others that seemed like a good idea at the time :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm, I do have to go
Calvino Rabeni: My opinion is, there's no right way to be
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye for now Calvino :)
Calvino Rabeni: Good talking to you, SS.
SophiaSharon Larnia: me either,but maybe I can explain more later :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: you too!!
Calvino Rabeni: I'd like that