The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.

Eos Amaterasu: Hi O, Stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: greetings
oO0Oo Resident: Hiya

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: black cats in dark rooms
stevenaia Michinaga: I have been away so my cat had found my right arm as a very comfortable place to sleep this evening (gray cat)
stevenaia Michinaga: hi san
Eos Amaterasu: you left your arm behind?
stevenaia Michinaga: I should have
Eos Amaterasu: Hi San
Santoshima Resident: greetings, earthlings
stevenaia Michinaga: Hi Lucinda
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Luci
oO0Oo Resident: How can the unknown.. reveal.. by way of our own side?
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Eliza
Lucinda Lavender: greetings all
stevenaia Michinaga: Own side?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Everyone :)
stevenaia Michinaga: what is that Sam?
oO0Oo Resident: That which seeks the black cat
Eos Amaterasu: feeling
Eos Amaterasu: feline
stevenaia Michinaga: lol
Lucinda Lavender: can there be a repeat of what sam said?
Eos Amaterasu: [19:03] Samúð (oo0oo): How can the unknown.. reveal.. by way of our own side?
Eliza Madrigal: ty
stevenaia Michinaga: why would you look for a black cat unless you thought it might be there
Santoshima Resident: which unknown are you referring ot?
Eos Amaterasu: Hi E
oO0Oo Resident: [19:01] Eos Amaterasu: black cats in dark rooms [19:01] stevenaia Michinaga: I have been away so my cat had found my right arm as a very comfortable place to sleep this evening (gray cat) [19:02] stevenaia Michinaga: hi san [19:02] Eos Amaterasu: you left your arm behind? [19:02] stevenaia Michinaga: I should have [19:02] Eos Amaterasu: Hi San [19:02] Lucinda Lavender entered the region (5.89 m). [19:03] San (santoshima): greetings, earthlings [19:03] Eliza (eliza.madrigal) entered the region (59.22 m). [19:03] stevenaia Michinaga: Hi Lucinda [19:03] Eos Amaterasu: Hi Luci [19:03] Samúð (oo0oo): How can the unknown.. reveal.. by way of our own side?
Lucinda Lavender: there now it shows...sometimes I see lines and then I don't:)
Santoshima Resident: sea of lag
Eliza Madrigal: Hi E
stevenaia Michinaga: (that is a very special hat, Luci)
Santoshima Resident: very
Eos Amaterasu: There's the Messier catalog of stellar objects, especially fuzzy objects. He spent years systematically catalguing and locating them and giving them labels.
Eos Amaterasu: As time went on more and more details became available, through better telescopes, and breaking light into colors so you see what generated the light, etc
stevenaia Michinaga: so the question may be why would you look for a black cat in a black room in the first place
Eos Amaterasu: but initially it was like a super hobby
Eos Amaterasu: maybe you feel fur brushing by you
Eos Amaterasu: just like we now figure the universe is 70% dark energy, and 25% dark matter (the numbers are probably completely wrong)
Eos Amaterasu: and no one has a clue
Eos Amaterasu: but you want to get closer to those dark cats
Lucinda Lavender: how can the unknown reveal...yes a bleu hat..
Eos Amaterasu: some cats have hats
stevenaia Michinaga: so it could be a black gerble
Eos Amaterasu: yeah
stevenaia Michinaga: you just have to guess (hypothosis?)
Eos Amaterasu: the thing is to not just look in the lit area because you can see, but to go further than that....
stevenaia Michinaga: fur, it purrs, must be a cat in there
stevenaia Michinaga: anything else would be a fantacy (guess)
stevenaia Michinaga: you start with a hunch
Lucinda Lavender: going further than the lit part...reminds me of dreaming...
stevenaia Michinaga: then things get real
Eliza Madrigal: hunches on haunches
oO0Oo Resident looks for Aggers
Eos Amaterasu: can you say more about lit parts and dreaming, Luci?
Lucinda Lavender: is this description about science?

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: Please observe 90 seconds of science
Lucinda Lavender: well I am thinking about a way I have heard dreaming described...where it is about travelling in to the darkenss and allowing the unseen to become seen...resonating with the darkness allows us to see I guess...on beyond the light
Eliza Madrigal: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: grins
Eos Amaterasu: so you sense the darkness, and also allow seeing to emerge?
Lucinda Lavender: I think you relax...and allow what can be
Lucinda Lavender: seen to come to you
Santoshima Resident: to come through you
Eos Amaterasu: come from that side and from this side
Lucinda Lavender: both sides in the now
stevenaia Michinaga: before science there seem to be intuition
stevenaia Michinaga: an inkling of...something
stevenaia Michinaga: a cat
Eos Amaterasu: inky black
Lucinda Lavender: velvety darkness
Eos Amaterasu: but you could dip your pen in that ink
Eos Amaterasu: maybe also play little games with the cats... throw out some thread.... see what happens
Eos Amaterasu: like in Play as Being a Laboratory, in a way we create subtle attending instruments, out of pure attention
Eos Amaterasu: we play little games, with framings and approaches to the dark 90 seconds :-)
Eos Amaterasu: and we also uncover ways we have been attending and holding, in subtle or gross ways
Eliza Madrigal: nice analogy ... the approach... especially considering the various natures of cats
Santoshima Resident: hopefully, we are able to do that elsewhere as well, not just sitting in the circle, responding to the PaBlovian bell
Eos Amaterasu salivates
stevenaia Michinaga: where's the pup when you need him
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Eos Amaterasu: that's the beauty of having a very short little play/game/practice, that you can do in 90 or 9 or .9 seconds
oO0Oo Resident: how do you do that Eos. I know you say "we", but.. regards to "uncover ways we have been attending and holding, in subtle or gross ways"
Eos Amaterasu: usually through pain or disappointment, I think
oO0Oo Resident: can you say more?
Eos Amaterasu: we give ourselves just enough space so that becomes more visible.
oO0Oo Resident: we do?
Eos Amaterasu: it's like the "do not seek for the truth, only cease to cherish opinions"
Santoshima Resident: we don't?
Santoshima Resident: quote source?
Eos Amaterasu: you don't discover truths, but rather the untruths and holding back and preconceptinos etc
oO0Oo Resident: is that "how it is"?
Eos Amaterasu: San, 3rd or some #ed Zen patriarch, I forget whcih
oO0Oo Resident: . There is a distinction between: inherent omniscience - the ability to know anything that one chooses to know and can be known. total omniscience - actually knowing everything that can be known.
Lucinda Lavender: Luci pretends to be a cat being brushed...so that everything extraneous is let go...it works for a moment
Eos Amaterasu: let us feel the dark cats, where we don't know
Santoshima Resident: ty, Eos
Santoshima Resident: {dang there is lag here}

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: catalog, probe, and develope sharper instruments of perception
Eliza Madrigal: very much the basic idea of the book Bleu and Pema have talked about ... that anything seemed to be known is most valuable when it points to what is yet unknown - better and better questions
oO0Oo Resident: accounting for anomalies.. rather than fudging the data
Eliza Madrigal: agnotology
oO0Oo Resident looks for Aggers again
Lucinda Lavender: can we have an example of the anomolie?
Eos Amaterasu: as in agnostic?
Eliza Madrigal: it is an actual word : ) study of ignorance or doubt, but in some contexts takes on the angle of manufactured doubt
Eos Amaterasu: like climate change doubt?
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Eos Amaterasu: in this case it may be relating to ignorance, gaps in knowledge or expected results or behavior, as fruitful, inviting....
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eos Amaterasu: like Messier found those smudges in the sky to be fascinating - what are those?
Eos Amaterasu: Example of anomaly: you're caught up in an emotion, then get distracted, and suddenly realize that the emotion's hold on you was instantly gone
Eos Amaterasu: amazing!
Lucinda Lavender: ah
Eos Amaterasu: where is that at!?!
Santoshima Resident: avidya
Eos Amaterasu: a : not; vid : clear seeing
Eos Amaterasu: then you might want to notice such experiences more....
stevenaia Michinaga: himm the world begins as a smudge, ends with a path towards clearity
Eliza Madrigal: but ... do you want to cultivate or develop that in the lab? intentional distractions...
Eos Amaterasu: maybe you want to cultivate noticing that?
Eliza Madrigal: mmm
Lucinda Lavender: how have I been subtly changing how I explore?
stevenaia Michinaga: sounds like an experiment involving dreams, you never know how it will turn out, each time
stevenaia Michinaga: or if you will even have a dream

--BELL--

oO0Oo Resident: looking into anomalies.. maybe like investigating the paranormal. First there is a normal.. then something that has not been explained seems to be there.. not explained yet in known terms
Eos Amaterasu: Notice any anomalies?
Lucinda Lavender: First there is a feeling...then there is no feeling...then there is
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: :) cats sleeping ... but one is wearing a great hat
Lucinda Lavender: Like as in donovan's song about the mountain
Eos Amaterasu: the laboratory instruments here are built out of structures of attention
Lucinda Lavender: song as distraction:)
Eos Amaterasu: or enlightenment
oO0Oo Resident: mountain from which telescopes peer
Eos Amaterasu: (that's actually a zen saying (mtn, !mtn, mtn)
Santoshima Resident: is that like mumbling, Eos
Santoshima Resident: or abbreviation
Eos Amaterasu: abbr
Santoshima Resident: got it :)
Eliza Madrigal: intentional distraction is sometimes like giving over the attention to that unknown as if other
Eliza Madrigal: considering how often one has a puzzle then sees a film or 'dreams on it' - forgetting ...
Eliza Madrigal: makes space
Eliza Madrigal: unknown as object and subject - not sure
oO0Oo Resident: can intentional attention serve the same way? Attention to no object?
Lucinda Lavender: so that a certain moving on occurs..progress of sorts through distraction/shifts of attention
Eliza Madrigal: attention to no object... yes, hmm
stevenaia Michinaga: seems the answers have always been with us, just a matter of reaching deeply to find it, that is what the space provides... depth of the reach inside
Eos Amaterasu: 90 second wells
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Eliza Madrigal: :)
oO0Oo Resident: "not for the faint of heart"
Eos Amaterasu: there are scary aspects, could be disruptive
Eos Amaterasu: we love our stuff

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: Thanks cats....
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eos Amaterasu: darkness time
oO0Oo Resident: : )
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Cat
Santoshima Resident: so long, Eos
Eos Amaterasu: ciao!
stevenaia Michinaga: night Eos, thanks
Santoshima Resident: meow
oO0Oo Resident waves
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Lucinda Lavender: bye eos, O...
Eliza Madrigal: how fragile we are...
stevenaia Michinaga: night Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Night :)) Hugs
Santoshima Resident: good night eliza
Lucinda Lavender: beautiful dress
Eliza Madrigal: ty so much... pointer from xiri :)
Santoshima Resident: good night Sam
Eliza Madrigal: wish you all pleasant dreams
stevenaia Michinaga: bedtime for me
Santoshima Resident: & to stevenaia
Santoshima Resident: g'night
Lucinda Lavender: bye Stevenaia
Santoshima Resident: sorrow for the knowing ... ... life, so brief ... friendship when it is beyond repair
Santoshima Resident: quoting myself
Lucinda Lavender: ah...
Santoshima Resident: solution: clean house, light candles, arrange flowers ~ bidding you very sweet dreams and gentleness, ms luci
Santoshima Resident: bye for now
Lucinda Lavender: thanks so...same ideas for me
Lucinda Lavender: sweet dreams