2013.07.07 07:00 - good beginning to this weeks topic

The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The comments are by Bleu Oleander.

Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".
DR42 Resident: 's current display-name is "-- Maude --".
Bleu Oleander: hiya Maude
DR42 Resident: ηαмαѕтє
Bleu Oleander: how's your Sunday so far?
DR42 Resident: I've been having sleep issues, and the heat does not help.
DR42 Resident: How about your?
Bleu Oleander: no sleep issues, but def hot here :)
DR42 Resident listens to the german national anthem being played for the german grand prix.
Bleu Oleander: some lovely art projects in the Dome, have you seen them?
Bleu Oleander: there's an opening session today at noon slt
--BELL--

DR42 Resident: no, I havent gone over there.
Bleu Oleander: interesting ways that people have interpreted their dreams
DR42 Resident: I havent wandered about the region. I was yellet at the last time I did for interrupting a "private" discussion where no-one was saying anything.
Bleu Oleander: that's too bad ... there really are some nice spots in the village
Bleu Oleander: sorry you had that experience
Bleu Oleander: the Dome area is where we exhibit our art projects
Bleu Oleander: a different show every few months
Bleu Oleander: the 5 Bells Pub is nice to visit
Bleu Oleander: and the Museum also
DR42 Resident: I had started work on mine, but sleep and healt have prevented much progress.
Bleu Oleander: our health most certainly limits our activities
Bleu Oleander: we take it for granted sometimes
Bleu Oleander: any thoughts on this week's topic "hypocrisy"? or additional thoughts on last week's?
Bleu Oleander: or any other topic you would like to discuss?
Bleu Oleander: sitting quietly is also an option :)
DR42 Resident: Hypocrisy is a charged topic. I wonder if I could discuss it without having lots of personal baggage entering the discussion.
Bleu Oleander: always a challenge, you're right!
Bleu Oleander: we all bring our personal baggage with us to any conversation
Bleu Oleander: “practicing what you preach” is one idea
Bleu Oleander: “saying one thing and doing another” is another way of saying it
DR42 Resident: But the fact that one recognizes it and can keep it out is important. I'm not sure I could in this instance.
DR42 Resident has a flashback to Newt Gingrich;s picture.
Bleu Oleander: politics is definitely an area with rampant hypocrisy
DR42 Resident: "Rampant" is such a benign, mild word. (s)
Bleu Oleander: so there's a sense that behavior is the telling component ... perhaps it is more about a knowing, a conscious effort to deceive, to make others believe I am something I'm not?
DR42 Resident: The definition of a politician?
Bleu Oleander: the assuming of a false appearance of virtue or goodness
Bleu Oleander: haha yes
Bleu Oleander: not only limited to politicians though
DR42 Resident: No, it is simply the easiest to see there because so much of their public lives is captured.
Bleu Oleander: I think we all want others to think we are moral, good people
--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: perhaps overstate our own qualities sometimes, although I think hypocrisy is a stronger intent to preach one thing, knowing you don't actually follow through
DR42 Resident: Do we hold people to a higher standard when they are in the public eye?
Bleu Oleander: I think we hold "others" in general to a higher standard than we hold ourselves
Bleu Oleander: we can be quick to judge others and not see the same in ourselves
Bleu Oleander: perhaps a form of hypocrisy?
DR42 Resident: Yes, and no. I do not "judge" you to a higher standard then I "judge" myself. At least I think I don't.
DR42 Resident: When someone holds public office, they place themselves in a position of telling others what is and is not moral behavior, and then their hypocritical actions rankle.
Bleu Oleander: yes, they really should be representing what the people feel is moral behavior not what they individually feel is
Bleu Oleander: not enough "representation" going on in my opinion
DR42 Resident: And that is the rarity, unfortunately. And their "leadership" is so often based in ignorance.
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: grand claims about the importance of morality and is then found cheating is seen as hypocritical
Bleu Oleander: so hurts them going forward
Bleu Oleander: breaks down trust
Bleu Oleander: reading Dante's Inferno ... he puts the "falsifiers" at the bottom of hell haha!
DR42 Resident: Unless you are blind to their hypocrisy
Bleu Oleander: yes, blind or just don't want to see?
Bleu Oleander: we give passes to those on our team
DR42 Resident: I was just thinking, I have more respect for used car salesmen that the "falsifiers"
Bleu Oleander: :)
DR42 Resident: Yes, passes to those on our team, or those who have convinced us that they are on our team, even if they are not.
Bleu Oleander: bottom lines are usually at stake
Bleu Oleander: complex web of agendas
DR42 Resident: Greed and power.
Bleu Oleander: yes
--BELL--

DR42 Resident: Self serving action is not always hypocrisy, what is the line that one crosses that makes it such? The intensional deceit? or is hypocrisy broader, more general, than that?
Bleu Oleander: good question
Bleu Oleander: I think intensionality is a factor
DR42 Resident: The story of my life. Good questions, few answers.
Bleu Oleander: all good questions lead to more questions I think
Bleu Oleander: answers are dead ends in a way
DR42 Resident: But people can be hypocrites without intentionally being such.
Bleu Oleander: it is disingenuousnessthat is the main issue, not the “practice” itself
DR42 Resident: I hope you edit the blog posts for typonese.
Bleu Oleander: hehe always try to
Bleu Oleander: although hard to catch all
DR42 Resident: I would have to think on that point, dis ingenuousness
Bleu Oleander: points in a way to honesty
DR42 Resident: I don't think Newt was disingenuous, I think he was simply clueless in so many ways.
Bleu Oleander: I don't give him a pass
Bleu Oleander: I think he's pretty smart
DR42 Resident: Yes, he is, but is it a result of a blindness towards himself?
Bleu Oleander: perhaps
Bleu Oleander: without getting in someone's head it's hard to know
Bleu Oleander: so we judge based on what they say and how they behave
Bleu Oleander: perhaps we need to be better at imagining ourselves in others shoes ... last weeks topic :)
Bleu Oleander: increase our empathy
DR42 Resident: I know someone who is in the state house where he lives. He has said he will always listen to peoples opinions, but what the people he represents think is not going to change his mind.
Bleu Oleander: intentions may have been stated in good faith while overestimating one’s ability to implement them could be a factor
DR42 Resident: He was being very honest when he said that.
Bleu Oleander: wow
Bleu Oleander: not the spirit of democracy
--BELL--

DR42 Resident: Well, he is a real misogynist as well.
Bleu Oleander: should be voted out lol
DR42 Resident: I think he simply does not see much of the hypocrisy.
Bleu Oleander: do most oaths of office contain a clause to represent the people's wishes?
DR42 Resident: He is popular because he always seems to care what you think, but he never really does. People, for the most part, never notice.
DR42 Resident: I think not. The US is not a democracy.
Bleu Oleander: so on the appearance looks like hypocrisy to me
Bleu Oleander: a republic
DR42 Resident: Yes, when you examine the situation. If you never make the inquiry, you would not see it.
DR42 Resident: A representational Republic. You have no direct vote.
Bleu Oleander: our representatives are supposed to represent us ... in theory haha
Bleu Oleander: I think they've forgotten about that part :)
DR42 Resident: They represent the interests of those who make the bigest donations to them and offer the most power. It is honestly not a function of the values of their political party or their own morals.
Bleu Oleander: yes .... sighs
Bleu Oleander: well have to get going
Bleu Oleander: nice chatting with you
Bleu Oleander: perhaps a good beginning to this weeks topic
DR42 Resident: Me, too. laundry.
Bleu Oleander: take care
DR42 Resident: We shall see.
DR42 Resident: but it is a good topic.
DR42 Resident: bye
Bleu Oleander: yes enjoy your sunday