2009.11.19 19:00 - Lucid Dreaming

 

The Guardian for this meeting was Paradise Tennant. The comments are by Pema, <city w:st="on">Stevenaia</city>, <state w:st="on">Cal</state>vino, Myna, Fox and <place w:st="on">Paradise</place>

Pema Pera: heya, <place w:st="on">Paradise</place>!

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: hiya pema how are you :)

Pema Pera: I'm fine!

Pema Pera: What a great fresh green look!

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: thanks you .. I love Indian clothes ..the colors the

textures the complexity of pattern :)

Pema Pera: Hi Calvino!

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: hiya cal :)

Pema Pera: yes, they always look very comfortable too

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: yes

Calvino Rabeni: Hello para, pema

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: ;)

stevenaia Michinaga: hello

Pema Pera: Hi Steve!

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: hiya steve

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: ;)

stevenaia Michinaga: waits for pillows to appear

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: laggy tonight .. must be lots of peeps on the grid :)

stevenaia Michinaga: forgot to look on my way in

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: ;)

Pema Pera: :)

stevenaia Michinaga: I thought you were the host <place w:st="on">Paradise</place>?

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: I am :)

stevenaia Michinaga: so much for tags and clarity

Pema Pera: hahaha

Pema Pera: we like a little chaos and freedom

stevenaia Michinaga: a little play, nods

Pema Pera: and finding tiny buttons -- you're such a good sport, Steve!

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: nods .. one of the laws of physics no ?

stevenaia Michinaga: chaos?

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: tendency to chaos

Pema Pera: I always like a challenge, but I had never dreamt that my chance

would come so soon . . . .

stevenaia Michinaga: chance?

Pema Pera: (chaos as in "cultivator" and "PaB host" and other tags)

Pema Pera: chance to challenge your no-button notion :)

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

Pema Pera: anyway, I very much admire your solution, as I wrote -- sorry,

Calvino, tail of a long story

stevenaia Michinaga: wonders of opinions other than those presented represent

buttons?

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: ;)

Pema Pera: oh, buttons all over the place, I'm sure, Steve!

stevenaia Michinaga: suppose if they they are necessary

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: ;)

Pema Pera: perhaps life what be quite boring without buttons . . . or would it

be paradise? :)

stevenaia Michinaga: button with no blood pressure

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: lol nope just press them all and see what works :)

Pema Pera: hahaha

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: had a nice chat with pila last night on lucid dreaming

..ended up with a very long reading list ..fascinating topic :)

Pema Pera: yes, it is a great topic!

Pema Pera: have you had lucid dreams?

Pema Pera: or experimented with them?

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, he is such a wealth of interesting information

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: one last weekend ..he truly is !

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Myna

Pema Pera: hi Myna, so good to see you again!!

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: welcome myna :)

Myna Maven: Hi! Haven't been on Second Life in months. Thought I'd drop in.

Pema Pera: so glad you did!

stevenaia Michinaga: we are still here :)

Myna Maven: :) I'm glad.

Pema Pera: Myna, meet Calvino, our new regular :-)

Myna Maven: Hello Calvino.

Calvino Rabeni: Hi, Myna -

Pema Pera: have you met <place w:st="on">Paradise</place> before?

Myna Maven: And I've not met <place w:st="on">Paradise</place>.

--<city w:st="on"><place w:st="on">BELL--</place></city>

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: hiya myna ..my pleasure

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: ;)

Myna Maven: Pema, everything is fine. People around me have had a lot going

on.

Myna Maven: That wasn't so fine. Some difficult times for them.

Pema Pera: they must have been glad to have you around, I bet

Myna Maven: Nothing like that. More glad to have my husband around. He's

shouldered a good deal of responsibility.

Myna Maven: Friends of his.

Pema Pera: ah, okay.

Pema Pera: but either way I'm sure it's affecting both of you

Myna Maven: Well, it did. Profoundly affected us both.

Myna Maven: But enough of that ! I think I intruded on a conversation on lucid

dreaming?

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: :) do you have lucid dreams myna :)

Myna Maven: I've had them but they're not something for which I strive. I have

them rarely.

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: nods

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: you found them .....

Myna Maven: I found them?... How do you mean?

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: well what was the experience like

Myna Maven: Hmmm. Let me think.

Myna Maven: I was simply cognizant that I was dreaming.

Myna Maven: Usually when I've had them it's just been that simple awareness

that I am indeed dreaming. I haven't tried really to manipulate what was going

on in the dreams.

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: did it change the nature of the dream .. just that level of

awareness

Myna Maven: I suppose I'd have to say it depended on the nature of the dream,

what was happening in it.

Myna Maven: I suppose in a way I can't say because I'm not sure what the dream

would have been like had I not be come lucid. :)

Myna Maven: But it's been a few years since I've had them and I'm not sure

what I might have said the morning after.

Calvino Rabeni: I'd answer that question with "yes".

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: listens

Calvino Rabeni: There seem to be degrees of lucidity

Calvino Rabeni: The most subtle one is just a sense of presence as dreamer.

stevenaia Michinaga: a rather detailed Wiki page exists

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

Calvino Rabeni: But the way it affects my dreams is, they don't scare

me,because I know they are dreams.

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: yes read it this morning

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: nods

Pema Pera: there is also http://www.lucidipedia.com/misc/index.php

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: the knowing takes away the fear

Calvino Rabeni: yes

--<city w:st="on"><place w:st="on">BELL--</place></city>

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: i wonder if we could bring that kind of lucidity to our

"real life dream reality" .. if it would take away the fear :)

Calvino Rabeni: pNot if it is premised on "escape"

stevenaia Michinaga: fear as a lucid dream?

Calvino Rabeni: Yes, about certain kinds of fear.

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: more in the way bon and Buddhist believe that it can be

short cut to enlightenment you see real life for the dream it is

Calvino Rabeni: OK, makes sense

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: so if you perceive real life as a dream . there is no fear

anymore either

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: ;)

Calvino Rabeni: you wouldn't really like to be free of fear, though?

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: hmmm

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: not sure it really adds a lot to the mix .. ..

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: what do you think?

Myna Maven: I think fear can be a natural, appropriate response that is

helpful at times.

Calvino Rabeni: People go to horror films. They seem to like it.

Pema Pera: perhaps more like a scary movie, your heart beats, your palms may

sweat, but you are not paralyzed with fear, knowing it's not ultimately true

Pema Pera: hehe, same thoughts

stevenaia Michinaga: thinking when was the last time I feared

Calvino Rabeni: I think, attitude of "naturalness" is good - as discussed in

WOK today.

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: maybe not even being rid of fear but it puts you in a place

of perspective where you see a different view of reality

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: :)

Pema Pera: yes

Fox Monacular: hello everyone

stevenaia Michinaga: probably when I pondered, ...is that police car behind me

with his flashing lights on after me?

Pema Pera: Hi Fox, we're talking about lucid dreaming, your cup of tea!

Fox Monacular: :)

Myna Maven: Where's Fox?

Myna Maven: Oh, there's Fox. Hello.

Fox Monacular: hello:)

stevenaia Michinaga: hello fox

Pema Pera: Fox, meet Myna, one of our old timer guardians!

Fox Monacular: nice to meet you, Myna!

Paradise Tennant: hiya fox gtsy

 

Myna Maven: Nice to meet you, Fox.

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: yes been reading up on it fox .. absolutely fascinating

Fox Monacular: lucid dreaming?

Myna Maven: (Haha. One of my son's teeth just came out. He was frightened

because it was bleeding. Now he is elated.) Speaking of fear...

Pema Pera: :)

 

Paradise Tennant: smiles

 

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: now under the pillow for loot ?

Pema Pera: lucid bleeding?

Myna Maven: !!!!

stevenaia Michinaga: what’s the going rate for a tooth?

Myna Maven: Into a little box for loot.

Pema Pera: sadly, in my native <city w:st="on"><place w:st="on">Holland</place></city> we had no tooth fairies . . . . .

Myna Maven: This one has a really sharp end. No wonder it hurt!

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: sigh poor pema

Fox Monacular: in <country-region w:st="on"><place w:st="on">Russia</place></country-region> we have a tooth mouse:)

Myna Maven: He long since knows who the tooth fairies really are. And it makes

no difference. It's still fun to put the tooth in the box and wake up to the

gift of money in exchange for it.

Paradise Tennant: :))))))))

 

Pema Pera: mouse??

 

Fox Monacular: yep... don't ask me why... it made sense to me as a child

Myna Maven: Mouse?! How fun.

Fox Monacular: I mean mouse is more plausible than a fairy!

Pema Pera: hehehe

Pema Pera: rodents, teeth, make sense

stevenaia Michinaga: uh huh

Fox Monacular: it does, yes

Pema Pera: no elephant?

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: nods

Fox Monacular: and the mouse would leave 'something' in exchange, like a

surprise

Fox Monacular: not money

Myna Maven: Like what kind of surprises?

Paradise Tennant: ;p;

 

Paradise Tennant: lol

 

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: hmmm not sure I like the sound of mouse leavings

Fox Monacular: I don't know... like you put it in an envelope, and in the

morning there's a drawing and 'thanks

Myna Maven: A drawing. My son would love that.

Fox Monacular: it must be different now that we also have a gift of

capitalism:))

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: artistic mice :)

Pema Pera: :)

--<city w:st="on"><place w:st="on">BELL--</place></city>

Fox Monacular: money reinforcement wasn't usually used at least in soviet

union, cause nobody had it:)

Paradise Tennant: :)

 

Paradise Tennant: nods

 

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: very different so much change so fast

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: always loved carlin's line who would have thought communism

would fail because there is no money in it :)

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: my apologies completely missed the bell notice

Fox Monacular: well, in kind of did... and now there's lots of money!

Calvino Rabeni: back to dreams,

Calvino Rabeni: Lucidity is a bit like being awake in the dream state

Calvino Rabeni: but the other direction is interesting - dreaming while awake.

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: yes

Fox Monacular: what do you mean?

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: you can become truly aware of it for what it is

Calvino Rabeni: A classic book is - Mary Watkins, Waking Dreams

Fox Monacular: daydreams? fantasies? free-associations?

Calvino Rabeni:

http://www.amazon.com/Waking-Dreams-.../dp/0882143247

Fox Monacular: thanks

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: adds it to here reading list

Fox Monacular: Freud talked about it too a lot

Calvino Rabeni: It is old book, but still very readable

Fox Monacular: 'phantasies' as dreaming mechanisms in wake

Fox Monacular: or art and literature

Calvino Rabeni: similar

Fox Monacular: as stemming from the same dreaming self

Calvino Rabeni: but the dreaming mind makes it up on the spot

Calvino Rabeni: yes

Fox Monacular: yes, on the spot, but within many real life confounds... such

as mood, preoccupations and so on

Calvino Rabeni: it appears the dreaming mind is active during the day also

stevenaia Michinaga: time for me to turn on, night all

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: :)

Calvino Rabeni: but outside awareness, whatever that is.

Myna Maven: Night Seven.

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: nite nite steve .. sweet dreams

Myna Maven: I mean Stevenaia

Pema Pera: Nite Steve!

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: :)

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: well a topic I am going to explore .. there are links to

creativity .. heightened awareness sounds .. intriguing

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: perhaps we could do a short meditation to wind down ...

anyone interested ?

Pema Pera: I'm game!

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: :) say five minutes

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: starting with the bell :)

Myna Maven: Good.

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: always find I sleep better .. :)

--<city w:st="on"><place w:st="on">BELL--</place></city>

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: gong

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: :)

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: thank you all :)

Pema Pera: thank you too, <place w:st="on">Paradise</place>!

Calvino Rabeni: I too must go - thanks all.

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: I am going to say adieu .. I have a very early morning .. be

well

Myna Maven: Five minutes? Thanks for being here.

Myna Maven: I hope to be back soon again.

Pema Pera: and I hope we'll see you again before toooo long, Myna :-)

Myna Maven: :)

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: I hope to see you all again soon

Pema Pera: nite everybody

Calvino Rabeni: good night all!

<place w:st="on">Paradise</place> Tennant: good nite all