2009.11.19 19:00 - Lucid Dreaming

The Guardian for this meeting was Paradise Tennant. The comments are by Paradise Tennant.

Pema Pera: heya, Paradise!
Paradise Tennant: hiya pema how are you :)
Pema Pera: I'm fine!
Pema Pera: What a great fresh green look!
Paradise Tennant: thanks you .. i love indian clothes ..the colours the textures the complexity of pattern :)
Pema Pera: Hi Calvino!
Paradise Tennant: hiya cal :)
Pema Pera: yes, they always look very comfortable too
Paradise Tennant: yes
Calvino Rabeni: Hello para, pema
Paradise Tennant: ;)
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Pema Pera: Hi Steve!
Paradise Tennant: hiya steve
Paradise Tennant: ;)
stevenaia Michinaga: waits for pillows to appear
Paradise Tennant: laggy tonight .. must be lots of peeps on the grid :)
stevenaia Michinaga: forgot to look on my way in
Paradise Tennant: ;)
Pema Pera: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I thought you were the host Paradise?
Paradise Tennant: i am :)
stevenaia Michinaga: so much for tags and clarity
Pema Pera: hahaha
Pema Pera: we like a little chaos and freedom
stevenaia Michinaga: a little play, nods
Pema Pera: and finding tiny buttons -- you're such a good sport, Steve!
Paradise Tennant: nods .. one of the laws of physics no ?
stevenaia Michinaga: chaos?
Paradise Tennant: tendency to chaos
Pema Pera: I always like a challenge, but I had never dreamt that my chance would come so soon . . . .
stevenaia Michinaga: chance?
Pema Pera: (chaos as in "cultivator" and "PaB host" and other tags)
Pema Pera: chance to challenge your no-button notion :)
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Pema Pera: anyway, I very much admire your solution, as I wrote -- sorry, Calvino, tail of a long story
stevenaia Michinaga: wonders of opinions other than those presented represent buttons?
Paradise Tennant: ;)
Pema Pera: oh, buttons all over the place, I'm sure, Steve!
stevenaia Michinaga: suppose if they they are necessary
Paradise Tennant: ;)
Pema Pera: perhaps life what be quite boring without buttons . . . or would it be paradise? :)
stevenaia Michinaga: button with no blood pressure
Paradise Tennant: lol nope just press them all and see what works :)
Pema Pera: hahaha
Paradise Tennant: had a nice chat with pila last night on lucid dreaming ..ended up with a very long reading list ..fascinating topic :)
Pema Pera: yes, it is a great topic!
Pema Pera: have you had lucid dreams?
Pema Pera: or experimented with them?
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, he is such a wealth of interesting information
Paradise Tennant: one last weekend ..he truly is !
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Myna
Pema Pera: hi Myna, so good to see you again!!
Paradise Tennant: welcome myna :)
Myna Maven: Hi! Haven't been on Second Life in months. Thought I'd drop in.
Pema Pera: so glad you did!
stevenaia Michinaga: we are still here :)
Myna Maven: :) I'm glad.
Pema Pera: Myna, meet Calvino, our new regular :-)
Myna Maven: Hello Calvino.
Calvino Rabeni: Hi, Myna -
Pema Pera: have you met Paradise before?
Myna Maven: And I've not met Paradise.
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: hiya myna ..my pleasure
Paradise Tennant: ;)
Myna Maven: Pema, everything is fine. People around me have had a lot going on.
Myna Maven: That wasn't so fine. Some difficult times for them.
Pema Pera: they must have been glad to have you around, I bet
Myna Maven: Nothing like that. More glad to have my husband around. He's shouldered a good deal of responsibility.
Myna Maven: Friends of his.
Pema Pera: ah, okay.
Pema Pera: but either way I'm sure it's affecting both of you
Myna Maven: Well, it did. Profoundly affected us both.
Myna Maven: But enough of that ! I think I intruded on a conversation on lucid dreaming?
Paradise Tennant: :) do you have lucid dreams myna :)
Myna Maven: I've had them but they're not something for which I strive. I have them rarely.
Paradise Tennant: nos
Paradise Tennant: nods
Paradise Tennant: you found them .....
Myna Maven: I found them?... How do you mean?
Paradise Tennant: well what was the experience like
Myna Maven: Hmmm. Let me think.
Myna Maven: I was simply cognizant that I was dreaming.
Myna Maven: Usually when I've had them it's just been that simple awareness that I am indeed dreaming. I haven't tried really to manipulate what was going on in the dreams.
Paradise Tennant: did it change the nature of the dream .. just that level of awareness
Myna Maven: I suppose I'd have to say it depended on the nature of the dream, what was happening in it.
Myna Maven: I suppose in a way I can't say because I'm not sure what the dream would have been like had I not be come lucid. :)
Myna Maven: But it's been a few years since I've had them and I'm not sure what I might have said the morning after.
Calvino Rabeni: I'd answer that question with "yes".
Paradise Tennant: listens
Calvino Rabeni: THere seem to be degrees of lucidity
Calvino Rabeni: The most subtle one is just a sense of presence as dreamer.
stevenaia Michinaga: a rather detailed Wiki page exists
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Calvino Rabeni: But the way it affects my dreams is, they don't scare me,because I know they are dreams.
Paradise Tennant: yes read it this morning
Paradise Tennant: nods
Pema Pera: there is also http://www.lucidipedia.com/misc/index.php
Paradise Tennant: the knowing takes away the fear
Calvino Rabeni: yes
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: i wonder if we could bring that kind of lucidity to our "real life dream reality" .. if it would take away the fear :)
Calvino Rabeni: pNot if it is premised on "escape"
stevenaia Michinaga: fear as a lucid dream?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, about certain kinds of fear.
Paradise Tennant: more in the way bon and buddhist believe that it can be short cut to enlightenment you see real life for the dream it is
Calvino Rabeni: OK, makes sense
Paradise Tennant: so if you perceive real life as a dream . there is no fear anymore either
Paradise Tennant: ;)
Calvino Rabeni: you wouldn't really like to be free of fear, though?
Paradise Tennant: hmmm
Paradise Tennant: not sure it really adds a lot to the mix .. ..
Paradise Tennant: what do you think?
Myna Maven: I think fear can be a natural, appropriate response that is helpful at times.
Calvino Rabeni: People go to horror films. They seem to like it.
Pema Pera: perhaps more like a scary movie, your heart beats, your palms may sweat, but you are not paralyzed with fear, knowing it's not ultimately true
Pema Pera: hehe, same thoughts
stevenaia Michinaga: thinking when was the last time I feared
Calvino Rabeni: I think, attitude of "naturalness" is good - as discussed in WOK today.
Paradise Tennant: maybe not even being rid of fear but it puts you in a place of perspective where you see a different view of reality
Paradise Tennant: :)
Pema Pera: yes
Fox Monacular: hello everyone
stevenaia Michinaga: probably when I pondered, ...is that police car behind me with his flashing lights on after me?
Pema Pera: Hi Fox, we're talking about lucid dreaming, your cup of tea!
Fox Monacular: :)
Myna Maven: Where's Fox?
Myna Maven: Oh, there's Fox. Hello.
Fox Monacular: hello:)
stevenaia Michinaga: hello fox
Pema Pera: Fox, meet Myna, one of our old timer guardians!
Fox Monacular: nice to meet you, Myna!
Paradise Tennant: hiya fox gtsy
Myna Maven: Nice to meet you, Fox.
Paradise Tennant: yes been reading up on it fox .. absolutely fascinating
Fox Monacular: lucid dreaming?
Myna Maven: (Haha. One of my son's teeth just came out. He was frightened because it was bleeding. Now he is elated.) Speaking of fear...
Pema Pera: :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Paradise Tennant: now under the pillow for loot ?
Pema Pera: lucid bleeding?
Myna Maven: !!!!
stevenaia Michinaga: what''s the going rate for a tooth?
Myna Maven: Into a little box for loot.
Pema Pera: sadly, in my native Holland we had no tooth fairies . . . . .
Myna Maven: This one has a really sharp end. No wonder it hurt!
Paradise Tennant: sigh poor pema
Fox Monacular: in russia we have a tooth mouse:)
Myna Maven: He long since knows who the tooth fairies really are. And it makes no difference. It's still fun to put the tooth in the box and wake up to the gift of money in exchange for it.
Paradise Tennant: :))))))))
Pema Pera: mouse??
Fox Monacular: yep... don't ask me why... it made sense to me as a child
Myna Maven: Mouse?! How fun.
Fox Monacular: i mean mouse is more plausible than a fairy!
Pema Pera: hehehe
Pema Pera: rodents, teeth, makes sense
stevenaia Michinaga: uh huh
Fox Monacular: it does, yes
Pema Pera: no elephant?
Paradise Tennant: nods
Fox Monacular: and the mouse would leave 'something' in exchange, like a surprise
Fox Monacular: not money
Myna Maven: Like what kind of surprises?
Paradise Tennant: ;p;
Paradise Tennant: lol
Paradise Tennant: hmmm not sure I like the sound of mouse leavings
Fox Monacular: i don't know... like upi put it in an envelope, and in the morning there's a drawing and 'thanks
Myna Maven: A drawing. My son would love that.
Fox Monacular: it must be different now that we also have a gift of capitalism:))
Paradise Tennant: artistic mice :)
Pema Pera: :)
--BELL--
Fox Monacular: money reinforcement wasn't usually used at least in soveit union, cause nobody had it:)
Paradise Tennant: :)
Paradise Tennant: nods
Paradise Tennant: very different so much change so fast
Paradise Tennant: always loved carlin's line who would have thought communism would fail because there is no money in it :)
Paradise Tennant: my apologies completely missed the bell notice
Fox Monacular: well, in kind of did... and now there's lots of money!
Calvino Rabeni: back to dreams,
Calvino Rabeni: Lucidity is a bit like being awake in the dream state
Calvino Rabeni: but the other direction is interesting - dreaming while awake.
Paradise Tennant: yes
Fox Monacular: what do you mean?
Paradise Tennant: you can become truly aware of it for what it is
Calvino Rabeni: A classic book is - Mary Watkins, Waking Dreams
Fox Monacular: daydreams? fantasies? free-associations?
Calvino Rabeni: http://www.amazon.com/Waking-Dreams-.../dp/0882143247
Fox Monacular: thanks
Paradise Tennant: adds it to here reading list
Fox Monacular: Freud talked about it too a lot
Calvino Rabeni: It is old book, byt still very readable
Fox Monacular: 'phantasies' as dreaming mechanisms in wake
Fox Monacular: or art and literature
Calvino Rabeni: similar
Fox Monacular: as stemming from the same dreaming self
Calvino Rabeni: but the dreaming mind makes it up on the spot
Calvino Rabeni: yes
Fox Monacular: yes, on the spot, but within many real life confounds... such as mood, preoccupations and so on
Calvino Rabeni: it appears the dreaming mind is active during the day also
stevenaia Michinaga: time for me to turn on, night all
Paradise Tennant: :)
Calvino Rabeni: but outside awareness, whatever that is.
Myna Maven: Night Seven.
Paradise Tennant: nite nite steve .. sweet dreams
Myna Maven: I mean Stevenaia
Pema Pera: Nite Steve!
Paradise Tennant: :)
Paradise Tennant: well a topic I am going to explore .. there are links to creativity .. heightened awareness sounds .. intriguing
Paradise Tennant: perhaps we could do a short meditation to wind down ... anyone interested ?
Pema Pera: I'm game!
Paradise Tennant: :) say five minutes
Paradise Tennant: starting with the bell :)
Myna Maven: Good.
Paradise Tennant: always find I sleep better .. :)
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: gong
Paradise Tennant: :)
Paradise Tennant: thank you all :)
Pema Pera: thank you too, Paradise!
Calvino Rabeni: I too must go - thanks all.
Paradise Tennant: I am going to say adieu .. I have a very early morning .. be well
Myna Maven: Five minutes? Thanks for being here.
Myna Maven: I hope to be back soon again.
Pema Pera: and I hope we'll see you again before toooo long, Myna :-)
Myna Maven: :)
Paradise Tennant: i hope to see you all again soon
Pema Pera: nite everybody
Calvino Rabeni: good night all!
Paradise Tennant: good nite all