2009.11.18 07:00 - Wired & Slowing Down

The Guardian for this meeting was genesis Zhangsun. The comments are by genesis Zhangsun.

Eden Haiku: HI! Archmage, how are you this morning? And Koya and Hikari?
Eden Haiku: Hello genesis, nice to see you again;-)
Eden Haiku: I loved seeing your real RL picture in your profile.It is so neat when people do that. I'm not there yet, but I would like to when I'm ready.
genesis Zhangsun: Ty Eden!
genesis Zhangsun: that was strange I didn't hear the bell or the thankyou for the bell did you?
Eden Haiku: Not yet. I did not hear either,,,
Eden Haiku: Does it ring at 10? Maybe only at 10.15?
genesis Zhangsun: it rings every quarter hour
Eden Haiku: I mean 7 SLT...
genesis Zhangsun: the idea is to take a 90 second pause every 15 minutes while we are here
genesis Zhangsun: the usual being 9 seconds as you know
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Archmage
genesis Zhangsun: is Arch around?
Eden Haiku: Not yet.
Eden Haiku: Her body is with us and her pets but she is away...
genesis Zhangsun: how are you todau Eden?
Eden Haiku: I'm fine thank you. And yourself?
Widget Whiteberry: good morning
genesis Zhangsun: okay ty for asking, it is a bit early for me here so still waking up
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Widget!
genesis Zhangsun: how are you this morning Widget?
Eden Haiku: Good morning Widget. Preety cool this morning isn'it?
Widget Whiteberry: waking up, thank you
Widget Whiteberry: thinking I will go to the gym as soon as session ends
Eden Haiku: Ah you are from the West Coast I presume... here it is already mid-morning ;-)
Widget Whiteberry: California, here
Widget Whiteberry: slt
Widget Whiteberry: the gym is fast becoming part of my practice
Eden Haiku: Doing 9 secs as you are pumping iron?
Widget Whiteberry: sort of
Widget Whiteberry: while I'm on the eliptical
Eden Haiku: ;-)
genesis Zhangsun: :)
genesis Zhangsun: exercise is so important
genesis Zhangsun: for me as important as any kind of meditation practice
genesis Zhangsun: and I guess you can combine them too :)
Widget Whiteberry nods
Widget Whiteberry: I focus on breathing a lot
Widget Whiteberry: scan my body for alignment and stresses
Widget Whiteberry: then start noticing everything
genesis Zhangsun: thats wonderful that you can bring in so much mindfulness to the gym!
Widget Whiteberry: I have none of my ordinary distractors with me
Widget Whiteberry: cell is off, radio is off, computuer is elsewhere
Widget Whiteberry: etc
Eden Haiku: I have a threadmill at home but it is now too big for my new flat. It is in the basement...not tempting...So I go out for walks but is not as aerobic. I'm fortunate to live by a river though. So it is a nice walk.
Widget Whiteberry: and I can't read on the eliptical
Widget Whiteberry: I read of people who hook their computers to their treadmills
Widget Whiteberry: creating a stand so they can work as they walk
Eden Haiku: Computers to threadmills wow! No more time for 9 secs then...
Eden Haiku: Or any awareness...
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Storm!
Widget Whiteberry: modern practices for modern times
Eden Haiku: Hello Storm. How are you?
Storm Nordwind: Good morning everyone! Fine thank you Eden :)
Widget Whiteberry smiles hello
genesis Zhangsun: I was listening to the radio yesterday and there was a presentation about a new movement popping up throughout the world
genesis Zhangsun: "slow media" like "slow food"
--BELL--
Eden Haiku: Slow media, that sounds promising...
genesis Zhangsun: it was a great discussion, the presenters were talking about media as tool and weapon
genesis Zhangsun: they said on average people are spending more than 30% of their jobs responding to emailing
genesis Zhangsun: and that on average for each email answered, it takes a minute per email to refocus on the prior task being done before running in to respond to the email
genesis Zhangsun: so something like 2 hours lost in total just trying to refocus each day
Storm Nordwind: That's not a fault of email, nor of the people who send them. It's a fault of poor personal time management
genesis Zhangsun: yes exactly that was the point of the presenters
genesis Zhangsun: but it is more than personal time management in their opinion it was about societal time management
Storm Nordwind: Society is made of individual persons, nothing more, nothing less.
genesis Zhangsun: we as a society are still figuring out how to live in a "wired" world
Storm Nordwind: If we all choose to manage our time, it affects society as a whole.
Widget Whiteberry: group dynamics are an important force in individual behaviour
Storm Nordwind: If we choose to let others manage it, that does too
Widget Whiteberry: feedback loops
genesis Zhangsun: yes Widget exactly
Storm Nordwind: Sure. Put responsibility for bearking the loops lies with each one of us
Storm Nordwind: *breaking
genesis Zhangsun: one interesting example: the new expectations created as a result of being "wired"
Widget Whiteberry: by looking at it as soley a matter of personal responsibility, we overlook some of the important dynamics
Eden Haiku: The discussion reminded me I had to reply to an email so I'm doing that now and following the chat here;-)
genesis Zhangsun: like a reasonable time to respond to email
genesis Zhangsun: most workers feel that weekends and evening are no longer off limits
Storm Nordwind: That is their choice
genesis Zhangsun: there is a work culture in most places to respond during those hours
genesis Zhangsun: well perhaps not entirely Storm
genesis Zhangsun: they may feel pressured to do so or be fired
genesis Zhangsun: we don't have the same workers protections in the States as you do in Britan :)
Storm Nordwind: Fine. That place is not worthy of their presence perhaps
Eden Haiku: I have always been good at multitasking but I have nostalgia for the time I spent in an ashram in India, before being wired...
genesis Zhangsun: well the thing is that these types of expectations are becoming incredible widespread
Widget Whiteberry: and very much internalized
Storm Nordwind: I worked for a place once - a private US company - that INSISTED that people relax at weekend and take their vacations. It was a major disciplinary offence not to. They PAID you to be refreshed!
genesis Zhangsun: well that sounds wonderful Storm
Storm Nordwind: Very big US company too
genesis Zhangsun: I haven't heard of many places like that
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps these other companies do not want to grow as big or as successful as my former employer! :)
genesis Zhangsun: one of the presenters actually brought up bringing in "mindfulness" into work culture and made a very convincing argument as to how it could boost productivity
genesis Zhangsun: I thought that was very promising
Storm Nordwind: Wonderful!
Storm Nordwind: Think twice, act once.
genesis Zhangsun: exactly Storm that was his point
Storm Nordwind: Makes a huge difference.
genesis Zhangsun: there is so much work created by poor work
Storm Nordwind: Unfortunately, that's not the way to get ahead on the promtion ladder
Eden Haiku: I heard that Google terats its employees with a lot of freedom and care, free bio food available everywhere, possibility to go for a swin anytime etc..
Eden Haiku: It makes a lot of sense. People are much more productive when they are happy.
genesis Zhangsun: yes indeed that is true, my sister worked for them, and now works for them again (she is at AdMob)
genesis Zhangsun: and some people of course think they are happier the more wired they are
genesis Zhangsun: the more connected
Widget Whiteberry: Wired is the new connected
genesis Zhangsun: which makes sense too in a new way
genesis Zhangsun: yes Widget nicely put
Storm Nordwind: More trinkets. More external sources of so-called happiness to let them down.
Widget Whiteberry: especially in a world where we don't phyically live near the people we work and socialize with
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Archmage Atlantis: Disagree Storm
Storm Nordwind: Or want to, Widget!
--BELL--
Eden Haiku: I wonder how wired we can become in the future. Or how we will react if we find ourselves without.
genesis Zhangsun: even "connectedness" has been reified, as something to own, rather than something to be
Archmage Atlantis: It is learning
Storm Nordwind: nice comment gen!
genesis Zhangsun: I think this message of being rather than "having" of PaB is so relevant
Archmage Atlantis: The images I bring with me, were given by those who love
Eden Haiku: Usually I close my eyes during the 90 secs but right before I closed them, I noticed Genesis is wearing her little Onigokko rat tail. It crept in my consciousness for the whole 9o sec.
Storm Nordwind chuckles
genesis Zhangsun: haha :) sorry Eden
Storm Nordwind: It's sometimes wise to edit it to be transparent ;)
Eden Haiku: No, it was fun. I just put mine on...
Archmage Atlantis: I am as I am, I do not conform
Eden Haiku: Just in case...;-)
genesis Zhangsun: I see the need to wake up to being as opposed to having everywhere
genesis Zhangsun: for example in the sustainability movement
Widget Whiteberry: 'having everywhere'?
genesis Zhangsun: there was a green festival here in SF over the weekend
Widget Whiteberry nods
Storm Nordwind: Do you think "wired" is a fashion and it will pall like other fashions? What will follow it as a fashion I wonder?
genesis Zhangsun: and the entire green "festival" was basically a "green" trade show
genesis Zhangsun: how can you own the concept of "sustainability"
Widget Whiteberry: I noticed that in past years, genesis
genesis Zhangsun: as opposed to live sustainably
genesis Zhangsun: be sustainable
genesis Zhangsun: there is this message that you have to own a bunch of dohickies before you can do it
Eden Haiku: Wired-people is exponential .
genesis Zhangsun: and it really can't be about more things, its really about less
genesis Zhangsun: (sorry for the little rant, something I feel strongly about)
Storm Nordwind: rant away :)
Eden Haiku: That is ok Genesis...
genesis Zhangsun: I hope being as opposed to having will be the new fashion
Archmage Atlantis: Rants are meanings
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Fael
Widget Whiteberry: on the one hand, I found it promising that so many people want to integrate their work lives, their economic lives with their desire to live in a sustainable way
Eden Haiku: I hope so too Gen.
Fael Illyar: Hi Everyone
Widget Whiteberry: on the other hand, I did't like the sense that I would be sustainable if only I bought x, y, and z
Eden Haiku: hello Fael.
Widget Whiteberry: hello Fael
genesis Zhangsun: yes Widget thats true, there is positive side to it
Storm Nordwind: I find the sustainablity fashion odd in a way. In Europe it's 30 years old. Here in the US it seems like it's just beginning.
Widget Whiteberry: here in the us it's more noticiable
Storm Nordwind: Contrast you mean?
Widget Whiteberry: no, I mean that with a consolidated media structure, many stories have not been widely told
Widget Whiteberry: sustainability is a newish word but has been around for 25-30 yrs
Storm Nordwind: Please explain "consolidated media structure" for me! :)
Widget Whiteberry: oh, in the US
genesis Zhangsun: deregulated media
Storm Nordwind: I see
Widget Whiteberry: a handful of companies control most of the newspapers, radio and tc
Widget Whiteberry: tv
genesis Zhangsun: media monopoly
Storm Nordwind: Ah... with the BBC I never had that problem! :)
Widget Whiteberry: correct
Widget Whiteberry: but you do have the Murdoch phenom in UK
Widget Whiteberry: he's world wide
Storm Nordwind is still acclimatizing to his new country!
Storm Nordwind waves a dismissive hand at Murdoch
Widget Whiteberry doubts Murdoch is phased
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
Widget Whiteberry: what it comes back to though
Widget Whiteberry: is this balance between the role of the individual and the group in determining
Widget Whiteberry: how we are connected and what ideas and info are widely shared and how they are understood
genesis Zhangsun: yes the relationship of the indiividual to community and the parts to the whole seem like the most pressing issue of our time
Widget Whiteberry: I think so too, genesis
--BELL--
genesis Zhangsun: in the humanities and in the sciences
Storm Nordwind: Why so now more than at any other time gen?
genesis Zhangsun: well we must have been moving toward it for quite some time Storm, but it certainly because more clear now
Storm Nordwind nods
Widget Whiteberry: we live in a much smaller world - easier for each of us to impact the rest of us - think about air travel and the spread of contageous disease
genesis Zhangsun: yes or how our financial systems are interconnected
Storm Nordwind: I suspect it has always been an issue though, just in smaller groups
Widget Whiteberry: how so?
genesis Zhangsun: there is a feeling of less space as our populations grows and we struggle to find new space
Storm Nordwind: The relationship of individual to community was always a matter of life and death in rural medieval communities
Archmage Atlantis: We are all one people
Eden Haiku: SL space as new space fr communication?
Widget Whiteberry: Eden?
Eden Haiku: I'm out of line?
genesis Zhangsun: yes in a way I think the virtual world offers opportunities for a new sense of space
Widget Whiteberry: no, I just wondered what you meant
Eden Haiku: Yes, I was responding to Genesis remark on needing new space.
Widget Whiteberry nods
genesis Zhangsun: a sense of space can be found in unusual places
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Storm Nordwind: So being wired is a double edged sword. As are all things!
genesis Zhangsun: ha yes Storm!
genesis Zhangsun: I think about Marx re your comment about medival communities
Archmage Atlantis: A sword by definition has 2 edges
Storm Nordwind has not studied Marx - except Groucho of course
Widget Whiteberry: by definition, are both edges sharp?
genesis Zhangsun: his version of history from the hunter gather socities to the societies which will be forced to cooperate to share resources
Eden Haiku: A friend on mine convinced me to be on Facebook last week. I lasted only 4 or 5 days. Too much information, I could not bear it. Too much connections. Too much.
Storm Nordwind: (Unless it's a sax Widget!)
genesis Zhangsun: aka communism, but thats a dirty word in some places ;)
Widget Whiteberry: facebook is very chaotic
Fael Illyar: yes, I find Facebook like that too.
Archmage Atlantis: All systems are used by those who seek power
Storm Nordwind: The medieval community was a dicey business in many ways gen. For example, if you didn't conform, the majority sought ways to exterminate you
genesis Zhangsun: ha a lack of "space" caused by the threat of extermination
genesis Zhangsun: yes facebook is a mess I agree
Eden Haiku: Sharing resources and cooperating is so important.
genesis Zhangsun: if those social networking sites could figure out how to make the information for accesible, more targeted they might move beyond google
Eden Haiku: I feel a lot of cooperation here at PaB.
Archmage Atlantis: Abraham thought to sacrifice his son would bring peace
Storm Nordwind: There is, Eden. It attracts cooperative people perhaps?
Widget Whiteberry: ah, I thougth that story of Abraham was about obedience to G*d above all else
Archmage Atlantis: I do not think that Widget
Widget Whiteberry: so I gather Archmage
Eden Haiku: It seems to. most people I met here are very empathic and cooperative. This is a nugget of a new world perhaps..
genesis Zhangsun: my interpretation on that story- is that god would not want us to do something as inhumane as killing your own child and this was why he prevented Abraham
genesis Zhangsun: from killing his son
Storm Nordwind: What a wonderful thought Eden! And poetically expressed - thank you! :)
genesis Zhangsun: (but I'm no bible scholar)
genesis Zhangsun: yes Eden nice!
Widget Whiteberry: and of 'paying it forward' Eden - so* many people helped me so* much - now I feel honored to help others and then further
Widget Whiteberry: to find opportunities to work or play cooperatively
Storm Nordwind: Interesting how the idea of 'paying it forward' was so new here in the west, but so old in the east
Widget Whiteberry: is it new in the west?
Widget Whiteberry: what was it called in older cultures?
Storm Nordwind: Was it ever formulated before here?
Storm Nordwind: In the east, it is bound with the idea of merit
Widget Whiteberry: I heard it first in a movie
--BELL--
Widget Whiteberry: I'd always done* it, but the phrase 'Pay it forward' came to me from a movie with Kevin Spacey and Helen Hunt and Haley Joe Osment, child actor
genesis Zhangsun: well I mst be off!
Storm Nordwind: Oh! Bye gen!
Eden Haiku: RL is calling. Have a wonderful day everyone!
Widget Whiteberry: me too, to the gym with me!
genesis Zhangsun: thanks everyone for the great conversation
genesis Zhangsun: see you!
Storm Nordwind: And me!
genesis Zhangsun: have a nice day Storm, Arch, and Fael
Storm Nordwind: You too. Take care!
Fael Illyar: See you later Storm, Gen :)
Storm Nordwind: Namaste