2008.12.03 07:00 - Gouda to Hear You

Aliens, delusions, Gouda and Agathat Christie all wrapped up in a being bow.... enjoy - CH

Crusty Goldshark: hi guys
Sonic Moonites: hi, sorry having trouble with SL here ;)
Becka Finesmith: lol - Me too :(
Becka Finesmith: we get days like that huh? :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, giggling...yeah....guess so.
Fael Illyar: Hi Cal, Gaya :)
Caledonia Heron: hey :)
Sonic Moonites: hey gaya, corvuscorva!
Becka Finesmith: I had to stop my 9 seonds today for a while because I was trying to concentrate on something and it kept breaking my concentration
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Sonic, Cal! Gaya!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: What was that?
Sonic Moonites: ty gaya
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Becka?
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Fael Illyar: grumpy at Being ... that's like just being grumpy with no target.
Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks Sonic ^^
Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs...or everything.
Fael Illyar: Becka, it takes a while to get the hang of it but eventually it just no longer feels like there's concentration to break :)
Becka Finesmith: ok. So the scenario was I was trying to solve a particularly long and complex equation. Everytime I thought I just had it, the bell went. I started to get upset at it
Sonic Moonites: ty fael
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hahah...I see!
Fael Illyar smiles.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that could be tough.
Faenik: could be
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Maxine!
Maxine Walden: hi, Corvi
Sonic Moonites: hello maxine
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Caledonia Heron: hey there Maxine :)

  

Becka Finesmith: So how should we handle occassions such as that?
Fael Illyar: Hi Maxine :)
Becka Finesmith: HI Maxine
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Adelene and Wol keep telling me that there is no should.
Maxine Walden: Hi, Fael, Becka, Cal, Gaya, Sonic..everyone
Corvuscorva Nightfire: So possibilities instead?
Crusty Goldshark: hi Maxine
Fael Illyar: Becka, well, initially, it's probably useful to just leave the bell off if it prevents you from getting things done.
Maxine Walden: hi Crusty
Fael Illyar: but it does get less disturbing over time ... at least did for me.
Fael Illyar: Hi Adams :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Good morning, Adams!
Sonic Moonites: hi adams
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Maxine Walden: hi Adams
Becka Finesmith: OK. I guess I shouldn't get disturbed by being disturbed ;)
Gaya Ethaniel: I wonder if I can have some friendly advice...
Becka Finesmith: hi Adams
Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs at Becka's words.
Maxine Walden: yes, Gaya?
Adams Rubble: Good morning everyone. Bick crowd this morning :)
Caledonia Heron: hey there Adams :)
Adams Rubble: Big
Fael Illyar: I'd describe the getting disturbed to be simply believing you're disturbed and believing it affects what you do. Which of course leads to it doing that.
Becka Finesmith: indeed.
Crusty Goldshark: Morning dams
Sonic Moonites: the self-fulfilling prophecy
Corvuscorva Nightfire can juuuust barely follow that.

  

Gaya Ethaniel: Where does healthy spiritual experiences and delusions start? I know a woman who thinks I was an alien on another planet in my previous life, hence all sorts of difficulties living on Earth... apparently I should either believe no dis-believe this...
Becka Finesmith: Did I miss what Gaya was going to say?
Gaya Ethaniel: healthy spiritual experiences end*
Crusty Goldshark: You are not an alien - only in this womans mind
Caledonia Heron: not so quick Crusty :)
Sonic Moonites: hmm, gaya thats a great question
Maxine Walden: is it possible to let her have her belief for whatever it means to her and you your own which may be very different?
Faenik: ????^^
Gaya Ethaniel: I have had a few 'surreal' experiences myself... that may come across like a delusion for some people I'm sure... no space/time experiences for example
Adams Rubble: yes Maxine. We have to depend opn what we can see and experience
Fael Illyar: no shoulds on believing or disbelieving it but ... I fail to see what's the point of doing either.
Crusty Goldshark: People can be allowed their delusions just as we are allowed ours
Crusty Goldshark: It is a question of mental illness, delusion and genuine truth
Sonic Moonites: perhaps the negative connations of "Delusions" are misleading...it is our society that deems these "delusions"
Becka Finesmith: "Delusion" seems to indicate a false believe but it is only false if you can prove it is not true
Crusty Goldshark: People spout nonsense and want others to ply in their delusions - to go along with their - your were an alien in a past life or will be a buddha in a future one - interested in here and now or delusions? Your choice.
Becka Finesmith: I don't think someone with a believe different to your own should be labelled delusional
Crusty Goldshark: play
Adams Rubble: Hmm. or is it false if you can not prove it true
Corvuscorva Nightfire: well...in some cases?
Maxine Walden: yes, and we 'believe' or perceive things for a reason which may not be clear, but it may be important to maintain our separate experience from someone whose 'belief' seems insistent
Maxine Walden: and different from our perception/experience/belief
Corvuscorva Nightfire points to what Maxine said and starts scribbling.
Becka Finesmith: If you cannot prove something true, it is just a belief, not a delusion
Maxine Walden: lol, Corvi
Sonic Moonites: how about delusions helping people to attain a spritual truth? The delusion is still an expression of a minds state
Crusty Goldshark: What you can not prove or find valuable is useless - some people need delusions to function - we all do.  However are you interested in moving towards truth or delusion?
Adams Rubble: Yes Crusty. And is it helpful for us to pay too much atention to other's delusions
Becka Finesmith: But it is only delusional to those that do not share the same point of view
Crusty Goldshark: What you describe Sonic is the way of Tantra - it has vaildity as long as the delusion is explained - the created and inspiring images are explained as figments of mind
Caledonia Heron: truth, delusion, beliefs ... those are not being imo
Sonic Moonites: ty crusty i will check that out
Fael Illyar: does the sentence actually say something that's understandable? I mean what does it mean to have a past life?
Maxine Walden: Cal, are you trying to gently nudge the conversation?
Fael Illyar: If it's not understandable, why bother trying to believe or disbelieve?
Crusty Goldshark: Nothing. A Past life is like yesterdays news. Gone.
Caledonia Heron: very perceptive Maxine :)
Maxine Walden: hmmm, Cal, just wondering, maybe we need another nudge

  

Becka Finesmith: BUt so is yesterday Crusty but I still learn things from it
Sonic Moonites: cal i think i could argue delusion, beliefs, truth are esseintial elements of being. ;)
Crusty Goldshark: If you wish to tie yourself to past karma (real or imagined) how will you reknew and free yourself to the moment?
Becka Finesmith: because I want to live and freeinf myself totally to the moment doesn't allow me to do that?
Caledonia Heron: you could Sonic :) being is being, everything else is made up which then is part of being I guess :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: And there are so many levels to delusion..to what we pile on that Being....
Crusty Goldshark: We are dependent on the past but do we live there? Do we live in the future? Do we live as a once alien? No. We live essentially anew in the moment. Nowhere else do we have anything but delusions upon delusions . . .
Sonic Moonites: i think the "problem" with discussing being is that everything is a part and parcel of being, even perhaps the most irrelevant things
Faenik: indeed?
Caledonia Heron: I am a once and future alien :)
Crusty Goldshark: :)
Maxine Walden: it seems that we may get stirred up when 'delusion' and 'alien' come into the conversation, but settle down a bit when 'being' becomes more the focus
Becka Finesmith: I'm with Cal :)
Caledonia Heron: :)
Maxine Walden: care to elaborate, Cal, 'once and future alien'?
Crusty Goldshark: Let us say you do a guided meditation, experiencing yourself and having sensations of another planet - this is something that is a real experiental happening - but you know it is just a game. It has valuable lessons but some people want to make the game real . . .
Becka Finesmith: but that isn't delusional
Caledonia Heron: yes Maxine, maybe because we may have glimpsed being and have a knowing of it which is common to us .... the layered on "beliefs" are individual to us all so it seems more stirred up
Corvuscorva Nightfire points to what Crusty said and scribbles.
Sonic Moonites: do you think i delusion is a decision then crusty?
Sonic Moonites: a want?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: We all do it...we all decide...
Becka Finesmith: I think it's a decision to not believe a proven truth
Corvuscorva Nightfire: what we are going to reify.
Crusty Goldshark: It is a point of separation from the 'Now awareness'
Sonic Moonites: *nods
Maxine Walden: thanks, Cal.
Fael Illyar: it's a decision to believe or not believe anything.

  

Crusty Goldshark: We all decide to live in the present awareness or somewhere else. Bringing the mind to the core awareness is a choice we try to make - most people do not make that choice. That is why they are described as asleep . . .
Crusty Goldshark: Do you wish to be awake?
Becka Finesmith: perhaps ignorance is bliss?
Crusty Goldshark: Do you wish to indulge the past, the future, the other possibilities the mind can reside in?
Caledonia Heron: It doesn't matter Crusty
Gaya Ethaniel: So you would all feel no problem being around this woman and watch her 'helping' others with her 'spiritual power'? Or am I being narrow minded by staying away?
Fael Illyar: if you watch, you can do something, if you stay away, you do nothing.
Caledonia Heron: why do anything?
Maxine Walden: Maybe part of our being stirred up relates to how Gaya is feeling distrubed by this woman who seems to be rather intrusive...?
Adams Rubble feels stirred up
Faenik: ????^^
Caledonia Heron: lol
Becka Finesmith: Perhaps she is actually improving some peoples lives?
Crusty Goldshark: I have been around very nice people, who 'help' with their claptrap. Does it matter? No of course not. Those who wish to be seduced by nonsense and delusion will play along with the nice people and their pyschic ramblings :)
Maxine Walden: Does this woman seem to reach right in or feel she has te right 'help others out' with her 'spiritual powers', Gaya?
Gaya Ethaniel: I don't know Maxine... she seems to be the one in need to me
Gaya Ethaniel: It feels 'dangerous' to be listening to her or her friends most of time
Maxine Walden: that was my thought too, she the one in need; and would agree that it might be best to not listen to her or let her thoughts in much
Crusty Goldshark: She may be helping them emotionally - or psychchlogically or in a host of ways. is she offering truth? No. Is she offering something of value? Maybe so. Depends what you want? Do you know what you want?
Adams Rubble: It may be a distraction rather than dangerous Gaya in which case I would stay away
Gaya Ethaniel: ok... so no need to feel narrow-minded or uptight then...
Crusty Goldshark: Agrees with Adams
Adams Rubble: No Gaya, no need
Crusty Goldshark: No go play with her

  

Becka Finesmith: The only way to deal with people who's belief system is different to your own is to try and understand them
Caledonia Heron: yes Crusty ... so we can ask, how does this relate to being? it does not seem appropriate to problem solve or troubleshoot interpersonal realtionships
Maxine Walden: agree, Gaya, no need
Corvuscorva Nightfire: well...one way anyway, Becka.
Becka Finesmith: to judge someone based on less then all the facts seems a little harsh
Gaya Ethaniel: What do you mean by 'proving' Becka?
Sonic Moonites: it seems fine to respect somebodys beliefs, but what if they affect other people too
Becka Finesmith: in what respect Gaya?
Adams Rubble: Becka, the issue is not respecting others but the intrusion on one's own practice
Becka Finesmith: I disagree. We can't close our minds to the practices of others. Otherwise none of us would have been open enough to try PaB in the first place?
Crusty Goldshark: Who we are and what we believe effects others. If people are playing at knowing about your past lives - ask more and more. Remember they are playing out their game - it is a reflection of them very little do do with you . . .
Crusty Goldshark: to do
Becka Finesmith: I agree with that Crusty
Faenik: indeed?
Caledonia Heron: no need to close your mind Becka :) it may not be relevant however
Gaya Ethaniel: I mean... can everything be 'proven' so that one can decide 'rationally'?
Becka Finesmith: precisley
Crusty Goldshark: We do not have to decide. We have to be where we are.
Crusty Goldshark: were
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I like what Becka and Crusty have said, though..it's powerful....in the right moment.
Becka Finesmith: no Gaya. Given all the facts and arguments, some things just have to be taken at face value
Caledonia Heron: lol, how can we be anywhere else Crusty?

  

Fael Illyar: Hello Luigi :)
Becka Finesmith: Anyway - My alien counterpart is telling me I must leave :)
Luigi Ziplon: hello everyone
Becka Finesmith: THanks everyone :)
Caledonia Heron: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: [I don't take her seriously Becka btw]
Maxine Walden: hi, Luigi; bye Becka
Adams Rubble: Hello Luigi. Bye Becka
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Luigi ^^
Luigi Ziplon: ~~
Luigi Ziplon: ^^
Gaya Ethaniel: See you later Becka ^^
Crusty Goldshark: Well Cal, we can be n the expectation of an answer . . or the belief that we have been given one - or in my case the belief that i am giving an answer . . .
Crusty Goldshark: Hi Luigi
Luigi Ziplon: yes I am
Caledonia Heron: join me in im Luigi :)
Caledonia Heron: Luigi is brand new :) born 12/3 :)
Crusty Goldshark: happy birthday Luigi
Maxine Walden: oh a newborn luigi
Adams Rubble: It is a good day to be born :)
Luigi Ziplon: Thank you
Luigi Ziplon: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
Crusty Goldshark: ?
Maxine Walden: some of us hope to be re-born every day, you really have been newborn, or, birthday celebration?
Faenik: ah :)
Fael Illyar: I guess the reborn idea in christianity comes from that it'd be a radical change in the way you think.
Fael Illyar: Luigi, I think we've heard enough siren's for today.
Luigi Ziplon: ok
Maxine Walden: Luigi, are you aware that we log this textchat? Are you comfortable being quoted from your SL contributions?
Adams Rubble wonders if it is safe to remove the cheese from my ears now
Luigi Ziplon: i'm ok
Maxine Walden: great

  

Fael Illyar smiles 'Interesting choice of earplugs.'
Maxine Walden: agree, Fael, and trying to think of a joke about 'hearing smells' but can't come up with one
Adams Rubble: :)
Caledonia Heron: how about that siren stinks? :)
Maxine Walden: lol, Cal
Adams Rubble: hehe
Faenik: why not?
Maxine Walden: (need to go in a miute or so)
Maxine Walden: minute
Adams Rubble: bye Maxine in a minute
Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later Maxine :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs...bye in a minute, or two.
Adams Rubble: Hello Gen :)
Caledonia Heron: bye Maxine in 30 sec :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Gen :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Gen.
Gaya Ethaniel: Have a good day Maxine ^^
Maxine Walden: thanks, Adams, as in countdown
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey gen ^^
Caledonia Heron: hey there Gen :)
genesis Zhangsun: Hi All sorry for dropping in so late :)
Maxine Walden: hi, gen, bye group
genesis Zhangsun: bye maxine!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye, Maxine...
PaB Listener Master: Removing "Maxine Walden" from list.
Crusty Goldshark: You missed vey little Gen, Sirens and ears full of Gouda . . . ;)
Corvuscorva Nightfire pokes Crusty...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and a rousing question.
Fael Illyar ponders 'How does Crusty now what cheese Adams had.'
Crusty Goldshark: ooops . .
Caledonia Heron: Crusty is being crusty :)
Crusty Goldshark: ;)
Faenik: why not?
Sonic Moonites: ok bye guys, sorry i have to go now
Faenik tries experimenting with Gouda earplugs.
Adams Rubble: bye Sonic :)
Crusty Goldshark: Bye Adams
Caledonia Heron: bye Sonic :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye.
Luigi Ziplon: bye sonic
Fael Illyar: See you later Sonic :)
genesis Zhangsun: bye Sonic!
Gaya Ethaniel: Have a good day Sonic ^^
Sonic Moonites: very interesting conversations today!
Faenik ended up eating them before trying them on.
Faenik: Gouda is good.
Caledonia Heron: gouda is gouda :)
Gaya Ethaniel: My time is also up... enjoy your day all ^^
Caledonia Heron: is gooda
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye, Gaya.
Adams Rubble: Bye Gaya :)
Caledonia Heron: bye Gaya :)
Fael Illyar: See you later Gaya :)
genesis Zhangsun: bye Gaya
Crusty Goldshark: Bye gaya
Luigi Ziplon: Bye Gaya

  

Adams Rubble: This is a little like an Agatha Chirtie novel...now there are six
Adams Rubble: Christie
Corvuscorva Nightfire looks frightened.
Fael Illyar smiles.
Crusty Goldshark: Searches for alibi . . .
Adams Rubble doesn;t count too well
Caledonia Heron: we should be seated around a long dinner table or in the parlour :)
Crusty Goldshark: When you say it - we go there. This is why what we say is important ;)
Crusty Goldshark: We can create positive images
Caledonia Heron: ok, parlour then, it's more comfortable :)
Adams Rubble gets the cigars
Corvuscorva Nightfire turns to look at Crusty thoughtfully.
Caledonia Heron: and no alibis needed ... it is a gatsby weekend :)
Crusty Goldshark: If we are able we can say even a murder mystery as a positive thing but most of us are better off with murder . . .
Crusty Goldshark: sy = see
Crusty Goldshark: sy = say
Faenik: why not?
Crusty Goldshark: In a sense what we focus on is our reality.
Crusty Goldshark: We are expressions of our inner landscape
Luigi Ziplon: sorry people i'm going to see what's going on out there
Luigi Ziplon: bye
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye!
Caledonia Heron: bye :)
Adams Rubble: bye Luigi
Fael Illyar: bye Luigi :)
Crusty Goldshark: Bye Luigi - stay off the siren diet
Crusty Goldshark: gone
Caledonia Heron: I disabled the siren at the other pavilion .... it has recreated itself here :)

Adams Rubble: Crusty I am still a bit comfused about your ending of the sentence with "we are beter off with murder"
Corvuscorva Nightfire: NOW threre are 6
Adams Rubble: Yes Corvi, you count better than I
Fael Illyar: One of us might be a ghost though.
Caledonia Heron: Adams is a selfless creature and did not count herself :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Caledonia Heron: me am ghost
Corvuscorva Nightfire is not selfless and did count herself.
Crusty Goldshark: that should be without murder - sorry - but the positive way is to see the murder of the false selves as a positive act . . .
Adams Rubble: ah, thanks
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods..like dream interpretation.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: if I see being "murdered" as an act of change in a dream...rather than a death....
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it is much less frightening.
Caledonia Heron: are false selves the selves we inhabit at this moment?
Crusty Goldshark: All selves are false
Caledonia Heron: exactly :)
Crusty Goldshark: The only true self has no existence. is unborn or without qualities . . .
Caledonia Heron: I forgot my ms. rhetorical sash today :)
Faenik loves wells!
Caledonia Heron: [next to my ms. congeniality sash]
Adams Rubble: :)
Crusty Goldshark: You can look for your self - it is not in your thought, your body or your emotions. All these things are

empty of self but give an arising of the sensation of self - which is a delusion :)
Caledonia Heron: a collection of what you have looked for, accepted or discarded almagamated
Caledonia Heron: *amalgamated
Crusty Goldshark: Shells on the sea shore
Corvuscorva Nightfire: or on a hermit crab.
Caledonia Heron: yes, that is where I keep my shell collection :) at the beach :)
Crusty Goldshark: yes
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: I am next. bye all :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye Adams...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye Cal
Crusty Goldshark: bye adams
Fael Illyar: See you later Adams :)
Caledonia Heron: me three .... hasta pasta :)
PaB Listener Master: Removing "Adams Rubble" from list.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: And then there were 4
Crusty Goldshark: Bye Cal