2008.12.12 19:00 - Can You Say More?

Adelene was the guardian that night. She sent me, Pema, the log, which I put up and for which I provided the title.

Pila Mulligan: hello Adelene
Adelene Dawner: Hullo ^.^
Pila Mulligan: how are oyu?
Pila Mulligan: hi Susi
Adelene Dawner: Good, and you two?
Susi Alcott: Hello Adelene; Pila
Pila Mulligan: I'm fine thanks
Susi Alcott: same here ty
Adelene Dawner: Hi Pem!
Pila Mulligan: hello Pema
Susi Alcott: hi Pema
Pema Pera: Hi Adelene, Pila, Susi!
Pila Mulligan: I hope you are well and happy, Pema
Pema Pera: ma, Pila -- and you?
Pema Pera: *am
Pila Mulligan: am also :)
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: I had an invigorating morning, rolling out of bed and debating Gilles . . . :)
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Adelene Dawner chuckles.
Pila Mulligan: it was a most interesting dialogue
Pema Pera: oh thank you!
Pila Mulligan: ... and result :)
Pema Pera: I hope I was not too hard on him
Pila Mulligan: well, you did give him some pointed commments
Pila Mulligan: but I think that goes with the baggage of debate
Pila Mulligan: and he seemed to hold his own
Pema Pera: yes, he invited it and seemed to be happy afterwards too, it is his style
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pema Pera: I drew up a sketch for next week, the follow-up session:
Pema Pera: Phenomenology Workshop:
Pema Pera invites anyone interested to explore phenomenology, using our own life as a laboratory. No prior knowledge of phenomenology, or any other kind of philosophy required. We will focus on actual exploration and critical reflection, in that order. If there is enough interest, we will make this into a mini-series, with a weekly one-hour workshop, every Friday. At the first workshop, on December 19, we will collectively choose our first exploration, as homework. Between workshops we will do our homework individually, off-line. At each next workshop we will: 1) report what we found; 2) critically reflect on that; 3) together choose a new form of exploration as the homework for the next week.
Pila Mulligan: is there a time yet for the Friday meeting to designe an expereiment with epoche
Pema Pera: we will do that during the meeting
Pema Pera: collectively
Pila Mulligan: ah, but what time is the meeting is what I wonder?
Pema Pera: I have suggestions, but we all should choose together what we want to do
Pema Pera: same as today
Pema Pera: 2 pm SLT
Pila Mulligan: ok, thanks
Pema Pera: in Kira Cafe
Pema Pera: it will be on the Kira events calendar
Pema Pera: http://www.kira.org
Pila Mulligan: this idea seemed to generate some excitement
Pema Pera: yes, I was excited too :)
Pema Pera: working together is so much more fun than only exploring by yourself
Kimberly Pleides: Over here!
Pema Pera: Hi Kimberly!
Kimberly Pleides: hi
Susi Alcott: hi Kimberly
Kimberly Pleides: hi
Pema Pera: Hi Crusty!
Kimberly Pleides: sorry to interrupt. this seems like a private gathering
Pila Mulligan: hi Kimberly and Crusty
Pema Pera: merry early christmas
Susi Alcott: hi Crusty
Pema Pera: no Kimberly
Pema Pera: please join us
Kimberly Pleides: Merry Xmas, early.
Pema Pera: thsi is public!
Kimberly Pleides: thanks
Kimberly Pleides: I'm new.
Kimberly Pleides: I'm not even sure how to sit down.
Crusty Goldshark: Hi Guys - happy Christmas - I am a memeber of the public and they let me gather . . .
Pila Mulligan: Kimberly, point at a cushion with your mouse
Pila Mulligan: then right click and you see a cricle
Pila Mulligan: left click SSit Here in the circle
Pila Mulligan: aha :)
Pema Pera: yeah!
Kimberly Pleides: great!
Pema Pera: we all lean that way, Kimberly, from others
Crusty Goldshark: One day I may even gather my thoughts . . . and throw them away
Kimberly Pleides: now all we need is a campfire
Pema Pera: and by the way:
Pema Pera: We get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ -- we record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?
Kimberly Pleides: no, I don't mind.
Pema Pera: thank you!
Kimberly Pleides: I like talking about the nature of reality!
Pema Pera: great, you're in the right spot!
Kimberly Pleides: what kinds of questions do you like to ask?
Crusty Goldshark: Is there such a thing as reality kimberly?
Pema Pera: how to heal ourselves is one . . . .
Kimberly Pleides: I'm not sure - what does "reality" mean?
Pema Pera: we are practical, not so much worried about words and definitions
Crusty Goldshark: What does it mean for you>
Kimberly Pleides: Hm...I don't really know.
Pema Pera: how to live, how to explore, in practice
Crusty Goldshark: For me it means an awarness independent of rationalizations
Kimberly Pleides: Ok.
Kimberly Pleides: Awareness of what?
Crusty Goldshark: No object
Kimberly Pleides: But don't you have to be aware of something?
Crusty Goldshark: Not awarness of something - awareness independent of 'what'
Kimberly Pleides: I don't quite understand.... don't you have to be aware of something?
Crusty Goldshark: Something might be aware of you . . .
Kimberly Pleides: That sounds scary
Crusty Goldshark: only if you are aware of the object 'scary'
Crusty Goldshark: Perhaps it is better to use the word acknowledgement rather than awareness?
Crusty Goldshark: Aknowledgement of Being . . .
Crusty Goldshark: Knowing 'I AM'
Kimberly Pleides: What's that sound?
Adelene Dawner was purring ^.^
Kimberly Pleides: Oh...
Kimberly Pleides: Don't I have to know what I am in order to know that I am?
Adelene Dawner: Do you know that you are? Do you know what you are?
Crusty Goldshark: Don;t you know you are? Already?
Susi Alcott: imo ; no
Crusty Goldshark: Some people don't exist?
Kimberly Pleides: Well...what if all I'm aware of is sensations? And not myself? I think it's impossible to become aware of yourself. You can't see the eye you see with.
Susi Alcott: meaning that imo one do not need to know what one is, yet can know that 'I am*
Kimberly Pleides: What how can you know something exists without first knowing what it is?
Crusty Goldshark: So Keimberly - does that mean where you bring your attention or awareness - you are? or you are not those objects or points of awareness?
Susi Alcott: knowing only part of what one is
Kimberly Pleides: Well - "you can't see the eye you see with" - meaning that when you look out at the world, experience things, you're aware of other things (even if those things are your own experiences) and not yourself...you remain hidden, i.e., the "eye"
Kimberly Pleides: That's why I question that I am aware of myself.
Crusty Goldshark: Well paradoxically the I AM or the awareness does not exist it only exists through the point of object or awarness - but what about in advanced meditation? - Any awareness without object there?
Adelene Dawner: http://mantic-angel.livejournal.com/113883.html
Kimberly Pleides: I don't know - crusty. I haven't done advanced meditation. But I would assume you still have to have some object of awareness, even if only "blackness" or "a void space"
Crusty Goldshark: What if the external or the body - the place that the I and eye roves is the awareness - the Being?
Kimberly Pleides: Hm...not sure I follow.
Pila Mulligan: Kimberly may have stumbled into a moment when the theme being propounded by Crusty is detailed in his view but more general in hers
Kimberly Pleides: Can you say more?
Crusty Goldshark: . . . however are you any of those objects or points of awareness - are they the essence of you? Indeed is there such an essence?
Kimberly Pleides: good Q!
Kimberly Pleides: Here's an Q to follow-up -- how can there be a ME if there isn't an essence? Isn't the "essence" what has to exist if I do?
Crusty Goldshark: No
Kimberly Pleides: And yet -- what is my essence? It's not how I look! It's not the words I use. Or even any of my sensations (e.g., pain, pleasure, etc), because none of those has to exist in orrder for me to exist.
Crusty Goldshark: If you look for the you - it will only exist in your points of attention - in the processing
Crusty Goldshark: You might not actually exist at all . . .
Kimberly Pleides: Yes.
Kimberly Pleides: I agree...
Kimberly Pleides: Maybe there are only "thoughts" and no me (as hard as this is to think about).
Kimberly Pleides: It's morning.
Crusty Goldshark: You'll live!
Crusty Goldshark: :)
Adelene Dawner: Depends a lot on how you defiine 'me'. The standard idea of it doesn't seem to work, I agree.
Kimberly Pleides: Sorry... did you hear that?
Pila Mulligan: a chime?
Kimberly Pleides: yes
Pila Mulligan: half hour maybe
Kimberly Pleides: Why do we type and not speak?
Pila Mulligan: no one would hear us
Pila Mulligan: me anywya :)
Kimberly Pleides: I mean, here...isn't there a way to "speak?"
Pila Mulligan: only if oyu have a microphone
Kimberly Pleides: no, I mean a computer generated voice.
Pila Mulligan: ahh :)
Pila Mulligan: nice idea
Pila Mulligan: I wonder if SL is working on it?
Kimberly Pleides: hi
Kimberly Pleides: I tried saying that... but it didn't work.
Pila Mulligan: do you mean using the Say button?
Kimberly Pleides: yes
Pila Mulligan: it is just for typed chat -- as opposed to Shout
Pila Mulligan: shout goes further
Quad Pillow: Setup completed. Time Zone is EST. Listening on channel 1.
Kimberly Pleides shouts: hi
Pila Mulligan: yep
Pila Mulligan: they heard that in Kalamazoo
Kimberly Pleides: oh, it reaches out further...
Kimberly Pleides: Kalamazoo?
Pila Mulligan: a town in Michagan US
Kimberly Pleides: Is this Michigan?
Pila Mulligan: no, this is everyehere on the planet
Pila Mulligan: time zone mean onthiing here :)
Pila Mulligan: SL, that is
Pila Mulligan: you are n the mornig, I am in th evening
Pila Mulligan: ye here we are
Kimberly Pleides: So, I think I'm going to go explore other areas. I haven't really seen much fo the world. It was nice talking with all of you..
Lion Head: Alarm Off
Lion Head: Alarm On
Pila Mulligan: yes, it was fun -- bye bye
Pema Pera: thanks for stopping by, Kimberly!
Kimberly Pleides: Thank you for inviting me. Bye, all!
Susi Alcott: bye Kimberly
Pila Mulligan: how could someone not have heard of Kalamzoo :)
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Pema Pera: I hadn't while growing up in Holland :)
Pila Mulligan: ahh -- that must be it then :)
Pema Pera: I'll have to leave soon, sorry
Pema Pera: RL calling . . .
Pila Mulligan: bye Pema
Crusty Goldshark: bye
Pema Pera: good seeing you all !
Susi Alcott: bye Pema
Susi Alcott: have nice time in RL too
Pema Pera: till next time
Pila Mulligan: have a nice afternoon
Pema Pera: will do, Susi :)
Pema Pera: thanks!
Crusty Goldshark: Sme here - bye guys
Pila Mulligan: bye Crusty
Pila Mulligan: have anice whatever time it may be
Pila Mulligan: hi Curtis
Susi Alcott: hi Curtis
Pila Mulligan: I need to go visit some folks at another SL place -- so see you next time Susi and Adelene
Susi Alcott: have nice time Pila
Adelene Dawner: 'night, Pila
Susi Alcott: see you again
Pila Mulligan: thanks
Adelene Dawner yawns...
Susi Alcott: lol
Susi Alcott: quiet evening
Adelene Dawner: Short meeting, but an interesting one, and I think it's time fopr me to go catch a little nap.
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Adelene Dawner: Cya, Susi ^.^