2008.12.15 13:00 - Scribes! (after a thousand sessions)

Stim was the guardian that afternoon, but he asked me, Pema, to put up the chat log. I also provided the comments and title.

This session was a special one: it was the 1000th regular PaB session since we started on April 1, earlier this year.

Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Gaya
Wol Euler: hi gaya
Pila Mulligan: hi Pema
Stim Morane: :)
Stim Morane: nice maneuver Gaya
Wol Euler: hello pema
Pema Pera: Hi everybody!
Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Pema
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Stim Morane: Hi Pema
Pema Pera: And thanks, Gaya, for the hint about the Kira Cafe naming/ad to Storm
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^ pleasure
Gaya Ethaniel: ah that's better... warmer ^^
Gaya Ethaniel gently leans on Adele ^^
Pema Pera: well, happy 1000th everybody!
Stim Morane: !
Pema Pera: in a way, we had our party already 24 hours ago :-)
Pila Mulligan: what is the flower for the 1000th anniversary?
Wol Euler cheers and waves a small flag.
Pema Pera: there must be many nice flowers in Hawaii, no, Pila?
Pila Mulligan: oui
Pila Mulligan: I'd suggest the gardenia
Wol Euler: hello adams
Pema Pera: sure
Pema Pera: Hi Adams!
Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Adams
Adams Rubble: Hello Everyone :)
Pila Mulligan: hello Adams
Stim Morane: Hi Adams
Gaya Ethaniel pouts... what happened there?
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Adams ^^
Pema Pera: no idea!
Pema Pera: you jumped?
Adams Rubble: I am experiencing lots of lag
Adams Rubble: Did I take your seat?
Gaya Ethaniel shakes her head... idk
Pema Pera: millennium effect of 1000th meeting?
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^

I thought it was a good time to ask how we could improve the structure of the meetings, but . . . . everyone seemed happy without!

Pema Pera: maybe this is a good opportunity to ask: is everybody happy with the current structure, of having largely unstructured meetings?
Adelene Dawner: Yes!
Wol Euler: yep :)
Pila Mulligan: yes
Scathach Rhiadra: yes
Wol Euler: are you, pema?
Pema Pera: for a while Pia, largely singlehandedly, made excerpts from many meetings, as you may have found on the wiki
Pema Pera: I'm wondering whether it would be helpful / useful to continue something like that
Pema Pera: as for me, sure, I like unstructured
Pema Pera: and I'm happy to hear y'all do so too :)
Pema Pera: at the same time it is nice to leave some kind of mark
Pema Pera: or gesture
Pema Pera: something you can revisit in some way, in a condensed way
Pema Pera: not necessary but just an idea . . . .
Pema Pera: one option, just off the top of my head, would be to have a kind of weekly summary
Pema Pera: someone volunteering to read all the logs of one particular week, and then writing a kind of impression about it
Pema Pera: what do you think?
Adams Rubble: It's a nice idea if someone can take it on
Pila Mulligan: sounds like quite a job, but perhaps valuable
Scathach Rhiadra: could be different people every week?
Pema Pera: yes, that would be my preference
Pema Pera: it could be each day too -- say one person for each day of the month . . . .
Pema Pera: many options . . . .
Bell: *ding*
Pema Pera: or three-day blocks: each with a dozen sessions
Pema Pera: ten a month
Pema Pera: if ten people volunteer, once a month to do a three-day block, that would work
Pema Pera: 28 sessions may be too much to summarize
Pema Pera: 4 too little
Pema Pera: so three days, with 12, may be just right?
Wol Euler: easier than a full week, I think
Pema Pera: so 12 sessions per essay, and then 10 essays a month -- then will invite a meta-essay once a month about the 10 essays . . .

Indeed, this turned out to be the structure we would adapt; and before the week was over, we would get our ten `scribes' as we would call them to take care of these ten blocks, each month, starting in January.

Pila Mulligan: now just to play the devil's advocate, could condensing those discussions influence the direction of future discussions by emphasizing particular points?
Wol Euler: and then a quarterly summary of the months ...
Scathach Rhiadra: and a yearly review:)
Pema Pera: yeah, yearly would be the next power of ten :-)
Pema Pera: it could, Pila
Adams Rubble: Somewhere the Chronciles might kick in
Pila Mulligan: would that decrease spotaneity?
Pema Pera: that's why having ten different people would provide variety
Pema Pera: that I doubt, Pila, we have a pretty unruly bunch here :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Wol Euler: only to the extent that people actually read them, pila :)
Pema Pera: I even doubt how many people will have time to read carefully
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: hehehe
Pila Mulligan: ah, so
Pema Pera: the voice of experience
Wol Euler: there is some feedback already from daily logs into other days, but less than one might expect
Pema Pera: perhaps the greatest value will be for newcomers
Pema Pera: I think it is just too much work to read all the daily logs in detail . . .
Wol Euler does at least skim all of them ...
Gaya Ethaniel nods... same
Pema Pera: too much work for many but the most ardent ones among us, Wol, :-)
Pema Pera: glad to hear that, Gaya and Wol !
Wol Euler: "ardent is as ardent does", momma always said.
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
Pema Pera: If I can step back to look at possible structure, I see three places: before, during, and after a session
Pema Pera: a theme, a kind of moderation, a kind of reflection
Pema Pera: I think the last one is most fitting -- a reflection afterwards like in a summary/essay
Pema Pera: and least intrusive
Pema Pera: yet informative perhaps
Pila Mulligan: now there's an analyisis that reflects reflection
Pema Pera: :)

Back to PaB explorations.

Pema Pera: Scathach, may I ask you (not to put you on the spot, just curious), have you had a chance to play a bit with the 9-sec explorations?
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, I've been trying to practice it, but have difficulty keeping any tyoe of regularity
Pema Pera: how did it feel when you did remember to do it?
Scathach Rhiadra: i would say I find it a centreing experience
Bell: *ding*
Scathach Rhiadra: I can letgo what ever I'm involved in for the moment
Scathach Rhiadra: still haven't managed to write anything down:)
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: When I first started, it helped me a lot to write down just a few words each time I did it, and " -- " each time I forget to do it . . . . .
Scathach Rhiadra: ah, I never thought of that:)
Pema Pera: and then staring at all those " -- " on my piece of paper, I got really ennoyed with myself
Wol Euler: heheheh
Pema Pera: and got somehow motivated to water the desert of " -- " signs
Pema Pera: Hi Tarmel!
Adams Rubble: :)
Pila Mulligan: hi Tarmel
Adams Rubble: Hello Tarmel
Stim Morane: Hi Tarmel
Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Tarmel
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Tarmel ^^
Tarmel Udimo: hi PAB gang
Wol Euler smiles at Tarmel

Tarmel joined us, and I filled her in on the historic occasion.

Pema Pera: happy 1000th, Tarmel -- the is the real 1000the PaB meeting now
Pema Pera: the 10,000th is scheduled for somewhere in 2015
Pila Mulligan: then we start over?
Wol Euler makes a note in her calendar
Pema Pera: :)
Tarmel Udimo: oh okay not the drinks in hand like the last one
Pema Pera: we start over at each meeting -- that's the unstructured part, I guess (^_^)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pema Pera: Thanks, Scathach, for sharing your impressions; I'm always happy to see how different, and yet also similar everybody is in working with the 9 sec
Adams Rubble: Hello Corvi
Pema Pera: Hi Corvi!
Pila Mulligan: hi Corvi
Wol Euler: hi corvi
Stim Morane: Hi Corvi
Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Corvi
Gaya Ethaniel: Just going to back to your suggestion about 'weekly condensation of logs' Pema, can I ask something?
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Corvi ^^
Pema Pera: sure of course, Gaya
Tarmel Udimo: hi corvi
Gaya Ethaniel: ty ^^ any ideas on things that can help 'not so new' memebers?
Pema Pera: in what way help?
Wol Euler: hello moon
Pila Mulligan: hi Moon
Adams Rubble: Hi Moon
Pema Pera: hi Moon!
Moon Fargis: hi mate!
Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Moon
Stim Morane: Hi Moon
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Moon ^^

Moon arrived, following Corvi.

Pema Pera wondering whether Storm will admit Moon to the Kira Cafe with all that fire . . . .
Moon Fargis: hmm
Gaya Ethaniel: Not sure... we have come up with things that can be beneficial especially to new people to PaB
Pema Pera: yes, Gaya?
Gaya Ethaniel: And I wonder as PaB is now growing 'older' ^^
Gaya Ethaniel: What we can offer to 'regulars' additionally
Gaya Ethaniel: As we have been doing for new people coming to PaB
Pema Pera: do you have some suggestions?
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm afraid I don't
Gaya Ethaniel: You have full of suggestions so thought you may have some ^^
Wol Euler: what do you feel is missing, gaya?
Tarmel Udimo: well what came out of the debate with Gillies could be one
Pema Pera: we have some email exchanges, we have had a few debates, I'm starting to write a book manuscript and would be glad to see others do so too if they like, we have the Kira Cafe for even more unstructured chats in Happy Hour and yes, debates at Kira Cafe too
Pema Pera: and starting on Friday, we have PaB 101
Tarmel Udimo: I meant the experiment
Wol Euler: ah! do tell
Pema Pera: also called workshops in phenomenology
Pema Pera: (I just like to call it PaB 101)
Wol Euler: oh right.
Pema Pera: then the essays with reflections on every 3 days may help
Pema Pera: so Gaya, there is quite a list :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^ it is
Pema Pera: but perhaps you can say more about what seems missing
Gaya Ethaniel: Except Kira talks are too late for me
Pema Pera: is it direction?
Pema Pera: approach, or foundation?
Gaya Ethaniel: I wouldn't say something is missing as such

As a segue to Gaya's reflections, I mentioned the upcoming phenomenology workshops scheduled for the next few Fridays

Pema Pera: By the way, the Friday workshop mini-series, starting December 19, may also be a good opportunity for "older" guardians to come and hone their insights by trying to summarize what they have learned for newcomers
Pema Pera: Here is the description, from the Kira calendar:
Pema Pera: Pema Pera invites anyone interested to explore phenomenology, using our own life as a laboratory. No prior knowledge of phenomenology, or any other kind of philosophy required. We will focus on actual exploration and critical reflection, in that order. If there is enough interest, we will make this into a mini-series, with a weekly one-hour workshop, every Friday. At the first workshop, on December 19, we will collectively choose our first exploration, as homework. Between workshops we will do our homework individually, off-line. At each next workshop we will: 1) report what we found; 2) critically reflect on that; 3) together choose a new form of exploration as the homework for the next week.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Will they be chat or voice?
Pema Pera: chat
Pema Pera: that way we keep a trail
Pema Pera: and don't get into shouting matches with many people trying to talk, and quiet people getting no chance
Corvuscorva Nightfire: good..I'm at work most Fridays at that time...and would like to follow along.
Moon Fargis hears the word homeworks and hides
Pila Mulligan: :)
Adams Rubble: What time is that?
Pema Pera: happy hour, 2 pm SLT, 5pm for you Adams
Pema Pera: http://www.kira.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=83&Itemid=113
Adams Rubble: Ah, very bad time for me :(
Pema Pera: but the transcripts will all appear on the Kira calendar
Adams Rubble: :)
Bell: *ding*
Gaya Ethaniel: RL calls. Good day/night ^^
Adams Rubble: bye Gaya :)
Stim Morane: Bye Gaya
Scathach Rhiadra: night Gaya:)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Gnight, Gaya.
Wol Euler: bye gaya

Gaya left, and we talked a bit more about content and structure of PaB sessions.

Pema Pera: Stim, may I ask, you will respond by email to the group, to the reactions by Maxine, Solo and me, right?
Pema Pera: reactions to your earlier writing?
Stim Morane: Minimally ... it seems tricky to cover these issues in email
Pema Pera: do you prefer to talk about it here, now ?
Stim Morane: It's getting rather later in the session for that.
Stim Morane: I will have to leave in a few minutes
Pema Pera: so we'd better come to your living room in RL :-) ?
Wol Euler: :)
Stim Morane: that would always be better, yes
Stim Morane: or I could visit you
Pema Pera: in Kyoto, sure!
Stim Morane: love to
Pema Pera: I do think that we shouldn't keep the conversation dangling at this point, though
Tarmel Udimo: just thinking about Gaya's question
Tarmel Udimo: is there perhaps a need for more structure
Tarmel Udimo: or a specific topic
Tarmel Udimo: for the week
Pila Mulligan: funny how Pema began today with that question, Tarmel
Tarmel Udimo: ohhh sorry missed it
Pila Mulligan: [13:09] Pema Pera: maybe this is a good opportunity to ask: is everybody happy with the current structure, of having largely unstructured meetings?
Tarmel Udimo: well from omy own brief observation
Tarmel Udimo: some meetings have been 'on fire' and others well just moments in time
Moon Fargis: ahh
Tarmel Udimo: but perhaps thats okay
Moon Fargis: welll happyness ofthen based on no structure, monotne things, wokring in order and by rules will cause that people are getting bored
Tarmel Udimo: and those that have ben 'stronger' are those that have been more directed
Tarmel Udimo: by a theme topic
Moon Fargis: so meetings arent not unstructured, they are free of thoughts
Tarmel Udimo: I am of the spontaneous type so I don't need it but others may
Stim Morane: Sorry, must go. Thanks for the discussion!
Moon Fargis: becasue the thoughts, the impressions of the day gives the structures
Adams Rubble: Bye Stim :)
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Stim
Tarmel Udimo: bye stim
Moon Fargis: bye stim
Pila Mulligan: bye Stim San
Stim Morane: Bye everyone
Pema Pera: bye Stim!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye all
Wol Euler: bye stim

Stim left, and so did Corvi and Adams.

Adams Rubble: The content of the meetings are up to us
Adams Rubble: the more we contribute, the richer they are
Tarmel Udimo: agreed
Adams Rubble: I must run too. Bye everyone :)
Moon Fargis: bye ^^/
Wol Euler: bye adams, take care
Tarmel Udimo: bye
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Adams
Pema Pera: hahaha, Adams!
Pila Mulligan: bye Adams
Pema Pera: was that on purpose, you think, by Adams :-)
Pema Pera: the juxtapositions of those two last lines?
Wol Euler: a hit-and-run, as practiced by Doug?
Moon Fargis: hehe
Tarmel Udimo: smiles
Tarmel Udimo: and yet there are those who may feel uneasy about speaking up and feel unheard
Moon Fargis: hm dont worry about nor being unheard, worry more about not being understood
Moon Fargis: (nor=not)
Pila Mulligan: or cnotradcited
Pila Mulligan: :) contradicted
Tarmel Udimo: yes well that's certainly one of the side benefits of this process ir learning how to be really clear
Tarmel Udimo: *of
Pema Pera: it seems to be easier to speak up in text than in voice -- an advantage of text, don't you think?
Pila Mulligan: yes
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, better than voice
Moon Fargis: yes.. hehe learing means to walk, fall on your head.. sttand up and keep walking now with an eye on the street looking for the blood of others who fallen before you not to fall again
Wol Euler: tarmel is right though, people have asked me in IM whether they may speak too. The more structure there is, the stronger that feeling will be for them.
Bell: *ding*
Pema Pera: good point, Wol, what can we do to express that this is really free for all, totally, completely ??
Wol Euler: I do try to tell them :)
Wol Euler: whenever I give people IM intros, that is one thing that I state
Pema Pera: good idea!

From PaB to freebies.

Moon Fargis: hmm the easiest way would be to place a freebie box right where prople can see it
Pema Pera: "offering Being for free!"
Wol Euler: "permission to speak L$0"
Moon Fargis: because where freebies are, everyone is allowed
Pema Pera: hehehe
Pema Pera: Well, I'll hop over to the Kira Cafe, where Happy Hour is starting, to see what's cooking there (hopefully nothing burning).
Moon Fargis: hmm
Moon Fargis: before you go
Pema Pera: See you all soon again, thanks for all the thoughts and ideas!
Moon Fargis: i thought about something
Pema Pera: yes?
Moon Fargis: about a song for pab?
Pila Mulligan: by Pema
Wol Euler: ah!
Moon Fargis: wich is played?
Pema Pera: whatever you like, Moon :) I thought you and Fael already had one?
Wol Euler: "won't get foole again"
Moon Fargis: i would prefer this song as pab song :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEOkxRLzBf0
Pema Pera: apart from the onigokko
Wol Euler: *fooled
Pila Mulligan: hi Alice
Pema Pera: well, I'll listen to it -- bfn!
Wol Euler: bye pema
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Pema