2008.12.08 07:00 - Unusual PaB observations

Becka Finesmith was the Guardian on Call and the comments are hers.

A little chat about my rash....

Becka Finesmith: Hi gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Becka ^^
Becka Finesmith: I nodded off there for a moment ;)
Gaya Ethaniel: np ^^ it's Monday after all
Becka Finesmith: yeah - quiet weekend :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Weekend was good yes ^^ how are you today?
Becka Finesmith: Still itchy :(
Gaya Ethaniel: aaww...
Gaya Ethaniel: How long it has been now... a good few days no?
Becka Finesmith: and frustrated with myself as I'm having trouble solving a problem
Becka Finesmith: It's been since Thursday
Gaya Ethaniel nods...
Gaya Ethaniel: What problem is it?
Becka Finesmith: I don't really know to be honest. I've had several diagnosis from friends from Measles to allergy
Gaya Ethaniel: ah... so it's not chicken pox?
Becka Finesmith: I'll give it a day or two more then if it doesn't improve, go see the GP
Becka Finesmith: I don't think it's chicken pox. The symptons don't really match
Becka Finesmith: I guess I should see a professional!
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes sounds like an idea... have you talked to NHS direct, they are pretty good...
Becka Finesmith: No - I've looked at their self help website but haven't called them
Becka Finesmith: i might try that ,

Then a little more about writing down PaB sessions.....

Becka Finesmith: Are you planning to go to the retreat next year?
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes you can talk to nurses and doctors on it
Becka Finesmith: (cool)
Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps yes ^^
Becka Finesmith: Did you try what Pema suggested at yesterdays meeting and write down when you PaB?
Gaya Ethaniel: I've done that for a long time Becka...
Gaya Ethaniel: Have you started?
Gaya Ethaniel: ty
Becka Finesmith: oh - Cool - Yes. I do it when I can
Becka Finesmith: it's not always possible
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey doug ^^
Becka Finesmith: Hi Doug
doug Sosa: morning!
Becka Finesmith: We were talking about writing down PaB sessions Doug
Gaya Ethaniel: Have you found it useful so far Becka?
doug Sosa: go ahead..
Becka Finesmith: Yes. But sometimes when I look back, it doesn't make any sense :(
doug Sosa: that't the way i feel about looking forward :)
Becka Finesmith: lol
Gaya Ethaniel: [Sorry brb]
Becka Finesmith: In what way Doug?
doug Sosa: slow i noticed.
doug Sosa: well,
doug Sosa: the future is a jumble of possibilities.
Becka Finesmith: Yes. Do you feel what happens to you in the future is all about your choice?
doug Sosa: that would be terrible. No i expect god to keep the ataoms in place.. :)
doug Sosa: but most of what happens in the future is nott anyone's choice.
Becka Finesmith: You think God has a lot to do with it?
doug Sosa: actually no. i was joking hence :)
Becka Finesmith: lol - OK
Becka Finesmith: I missed the :)
doug Sosa: it rather thas to do with itself and the fact that life is adapted to some aspects of stuff but not all, hecne glitches.
Becka Finesmith: But useful glitches in many respects
Becka Finesmith: one species downfall is anothers blessing?
doug Sosa: most of the time it is more synergyistic, not so apocalytic.
doug Sosa: sdpecies cooperate a lot
Becka Finesmith: indeed.
doug Sosa: Gaya?
Becka Finesmith: I think Gaya is away for a moment
doug Sosa: Becka, I love your head movements. how do you do that?
Becka Finesmith: What am I doing?
Becka Finesmith: It's not deliberate :)
Becka Finesmith: It must be part of my AO
doug Sosa: well, side to side, your body araches when you type..
Becka Finesmith: I hadn't noticed :)
Becka Finesmith: Must be AO then - Nothing I'm doing delibertely
doug Sosa: a new disease, AO?
Becka Finesmith: lol - Avatat Override
Becka Finesmith: avatar
doug Sosa: ah, tricks. I had no idea.
Becka Finesmith: lol. We love this world where anything is possible ;)
doug Sosa: well, not anything. We are being recorded.

Then Doug brought up some interesting outcomes to his practice.....

doug Sosa: But can i change the topic?
Becka Finesmith: of course
doug Sosa: well,
doug Sosa: i wonder how you feel about
doug Sosa: in the 9 sec
doug Sosa: can we see the appearance of the economy, and other social forces?
doug Sosa: I think i can.
Becka Finesmith: Interesting. I like to think I am looking in on nothing other then me
Becka Finesmith: perhaps that's my selfish side
Becka Finesmith: how does this manifest itself?
doug Sosa: when i thin k of me, think of my experience, which is alwaya misture of me and other.
doug Sosa: what comes up in 9 sec is always experience.
Becka Finesmith: This is true. As I have said before, we are the sum in this reality of our interactions with others.
Becka Finesmith: But we are supposed to go beyond that I understand
doug Sosa: so the exereince is lso of others.
doug Sosa: so the question is, does that include the real but unseen, like social forces and economies.
Becka Finesmith: Well, removing the others from my experience I guess is the first step towards stripping away all the layers
Becka Finesmith: I can then learn about me before I extinguish that layer too
doug Sosa: I have never wanted to strip away layers, but to experience them.
doug Sosa: with fewer assumptins.
Becka Finesmith: but then they have to go?
doug Sosa: after all, to strip away one rather than another is a strong act.
Becka Finesmith: This is the one area I have trouble with
Gaya Ethaniel: [back, sorry got a bit caught up]
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Becka Finesmith: "We are not who we think we are" always resounds in my mind
Becka Finesmith: NP Gaya
Becka Finesmith: Hy Stevenala
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey stevenaia ^^
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Steve
doug Sosa: nor are we what others think we are.
doug Sosa: icluding say the fountain.
stevenaia Michinaga: am I sitting on someone I don;t see?
Becka Finesmith: Hi Gen
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey gen ^^
stevenaia Michinaga: ooops, so sorry becka
genesis Zhangsun: not that I can tell Steve :)
Becka Finesmith: Hoproblem Steve
Becka Finesmith: :)
doug Sosa: so i was asking, in the 9 sec i think i can "see" the economy and other social things. thoughts about that?
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Corvi ^^
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi all
Becka Finesmith: Hiya Corvi.
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Corvi!
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Corvi
Becka Finesmith: I try to see a blank page when I 9 seonds
Becka Finesmith: seconds
Becka Finesmith: and watch what comes up from it
doug Sosa: i like to just be where i am doing what i am doing andsee what i can see when fewer assumptions about it all.
Becka Finesmith: This process can sometimes extend beyond 9 seconds though. I don't want to think only about the length of time which seems to detract from the purpose
Gaya Ethaniel: Do you mind saying more about 'assumptions' doug?
doug Sosa: well, as to the solidity of ojects for example, or that a table is a "table" rather than what it more really is, a complex experience.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah... ok
Becka Finesmith: the argument becomes circular doesn't it? To say that, you also have to make ssumptions
doug Sosa: such as?
Becka Finesmith: Well, you are then assuming is is a complex experience.
Becka Finesmith: and the human definition therof
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Nicely said, Becka.
doug Sosa: well "complex" is certainly a reflection on experience. But in the 9 sec i let go of these.
doug Sosa: so sitting here, doing 9 sec i notice the opening towards more, towards the quality of the light, where people are stting, how i am felling about each..
Becka Finesmith nods
Becka Finesmith: I have to leave now to go get my Daughter - Can someone drop me a notecard with the rest of the session later?
genesis Zhangsun: Why is it that you all do 9 seconds, what is your intention in doing 9 seconds?
doug Sosa: remember in tao it says, to see things as they are be without desire, to see them as the manifest, have desire.
Gaya Ethaniel: Sure Becka. Have a good afternoon ^^
doug Sosa: the 9 sec is always a mix.

I had to leave at this point but Gaya kindly supplied a log of the remainder of the session.

doug Sosa: bye.
genesis Zhangsun: bye becka
doug Sosa: i too must go..:)
genesis Zhangsun: bye Doug
Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy your day doug ^^
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Doug
genesis Zhangsun: is anyone here still regularly doing 9 seconds?
Gaya Ethaniel nods
stevenaia Michinaga: more here than regularly
genesis Zhangsun: and Gaya why do you do it?
Gaya Ethaniel: I feel 'better' for doing it
 genesis Zhangsun: healthier? more responsible?
Gaya Ethaniel: mm... more alert?
genesis Zhangsun: and do you do it for the purpose?
genesis Zhangsun: to bemore alert?
genesis Zhangsun: * that purpose
Gaya Ethaniel: no... I just want to do it as I want to play music?
Gaya Ethaniel: no purposes...
genesis Zhangsun: I ask only because I struggle with this question of intentionality myself
genesis Zhangsun: in doing something like PaB it requires a commitment
Gaya Ethaniel: ah... well I'm happy not doing it too... if that explains more
Gaya Ethaniel: But mostly I end up doing throughout the day if at home
genesis Zhangsun: mmhm
Gaya Ethaniel: And when out, I do it a few times, ringing a bell internally
Gaya Ethaniel: [not by a regular slot ie 15 min]
genesis Zhangsun: and you really do it in that sort of natural way but in a regular fashion?
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes
genesis Zhangsun: that is quite amazing
Gaya Ethaniel: Well I'm used to doing sitting meditations fairly regularly... sometimes walking ones so...
Gaya Ethaniel: Do you have particular reasons for doing 9 sec then gen?
genesis Zhangsun: and do you do these still in addition to 9 seconds?
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Gaya Ethaniel: Doesn't take long ^^
genesis Zhangsun: little bit of a complicated answer
genesis Zhangsun: like you I suppose in one way yes and in one way no
stevenaia Michinaga: I must go, see you soon
genesis Zhangsun: see you Steve
Gaya Ethaniel: Have a good day stevenaia ^^
Gaya Ethaniel: Do you mind saying more on each gen?
genesis Zhangsun: sure
genesis Zhangsun: In one way yes because I use my intention of becoming/being more aware, alert, healthy "better" as you say to motivate me in some ways to keep going
genesis Zhangsun: to keep at for now more than 7 months
genesis Zhangsun: sometimes I falter and I have let it go for a couple of months
genesis Zhangsun: so this is not entirely consistent over 7 months
genesis Zhangsun: but anyhow it has been a challenge of commitment for me to stick with it
genesis Zhangsun: and in this process I find myself using my commitment/my intention to be a "better" person to keep me going
genesis Zhangsun: on the otherhand I say "no" because another part of me sees that this is laughable
genesis Zhangsun: that there is no such thing as "better"
genesis Zhangsun: that this goal is very "monkey" like
genesis Zhangsun: the regular preoccupation of humans of samsara
genesis Zhangsun: and yet these two parts of me play in a balance with one another
genesis Zhangsun: they sort of laugh at one another and support one another
genesis Zhangsun: so that is my bit of a complicated answer
Gaya Ethaniel: I don't get 'laughing' bit...
genesis Zhangsun: well they laugh as in they both see the ridiculousness of what the "other" is doing (using a duality of this commitment driven self and a self that recognizes the futility of this commitment to explain)
Gaya Ethaniel: ah... ok
Gaya Ethaniel: I like doing it so I do... don't want to 'think' about it more than that really
genesis Zhangsun: sure we are all different
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Gaya Ethaniel nods
genesis Zhangsun: but really that is quite amazing to me to be able to continue doing something in the way you are describing Gaya
genesis Zhangsun: where you don't think about it, you just do with no thought of result
Gaya Ethaniel: Well... my life had been [still somewhat now] driven by purposes and results
Gaya Ethaniel: I have slowly stopped doing so for a while now
genesis Zhangsun: well I must be going
genesis Zhangsun: thanks Gaya for sharing with me
Gaya Ethaniel: Have a good day gen and thanks for sharing also ^^
genesis Zhangsun: I am interested in the way that others engage with the practice :)
genesis Zhangsun: see you. have a pleasant day Gaya :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks you too ^^