2008.12.13 19:00 - Something of a Miracle

Stim was the guardian that night, but I, Pema, put up the log and provided the comments and title. When I entered, I found Stim and Adelene already in the pavilion.

Adelene Dawner hmms at the 'one point' idea... hm?
Adelene Dawner: Hi Pem!
Stim Morane: Hi Pema
Pema Pera: Hi Adelene and Stim!
Stim Morane: Adelene, it's probably just a render issue.
Adelene Dawner: ohhh
Stim Morane: Hi Riddle
Adelene Dawner: :)
Adelene Dawner: Hi Riddle, Pila
Pema Pera: Hi Riddle!
Riddle Sideways: hi everybody
Pema Pera: And hi Pila!
Stim Morane: Hi Pila
Pila Mulligan: greetings :)
Stim Morane: I’m doing a Ch’an retreat this weekend, and am a bit tired, so I will only stay for a half-hour (i.e., half-past the hour).
Riddle Sideways: not sure how long my connection will hold

After Riddle and Pila entered, it was silent for quite a while, so I posed a question. Hana then joined us too, with a nice group label: "Classy, well-spoken"

Pema Pera: Would anyone like to bring up a topic?
Riddle Sideways: so many topics already goin in email :)
Pema Pera: sure :)
Riddle Sideways: perceptive / point of view in one of my favs
Pema Pera: can you say more?
Riddle Sideways: starting at the end of others paths
Riddle Sideways: building on thousands of years of history experimentation, ...
Pema Pera: Hi well-spoken Hana :-)
Hana Hendrassen: hello :)
Riddle Sideways: woooowwww nice entrance
Hana Hendrassen laughs
Riddle Sideways: many times I wish I could leave trails as I enter a room
Pila Mulligan: hi Hana
Pema Pera: like bread crumbs?
Hana Hendrassen: trails?
Riddle Sideways: ... I saw trails of light dots
Hana Hendrassen: oh? I didn't see those ^_^
Pema Pera: Riddle, you mentioned viewpoints and thousands of years of history . . . can yo say more?
Riddle Sideways: meanwhile, back at the topic
Riddle Sideways: long ago Piet wrote about placing oneself ahead of time
Riddle Sideways: what would science look like 100 years from now
Riddle Sideways: if we just took for granted that advances would advance
Riddle Sideways: if we/I put myselfg there for a wile
Riddle Sideways: [keyboard is going dead]
Riddle Sideways: what do we/I see
Riddle Sideways: hello Susi
Pema Pera: Hi Susi!
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Stim Morane: Hi Susi
Pila Mulligan: hi susi
Hana Hendrassen: Hi Susi :)

Susi joined us, so there were seven of us.

Susi Alcott: hi riddle, Pema, Stim, Adelene, Hana, Pila
Pema Pera: btw, Riddle, I was just writing on those topics you mentioned, on http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_Book/0._Questions
Pema Pera: finally found some time to continue my book writing project
Pema Pera: I hope to work on it over the holidays, make some real progress (hope springs eternal)
Riddle Sideways is amazed at the many more hours that Pema can find in one day
Pema Pera: :-)
Riddle Sideways: doing the mental exercise to juxtaposing oneself to different times
Riddle Sideways: then viewing the same / simular events
Susi Alcott: 25 with the lunch hour
Riddle Sideways: is soooo fascinating
Pema Pera: :)
Riddle Sideways: putting oneself at the time/place where all knowledge is know
Riddle Sideways: and then asking what now
Riddle Sideways: seeing how we would live

Yes, looking at the present from different perspective, either from different cultures at the same time, or from the same culture but from very different times, can be very interesting.

Pema Pera: we use so very little of all the degrees of freedom we have access too . . . . even just thought experience like what you just mentioned can do a lot, and even more so real shifts in seeing
Pema Pera: Pila just sent me a very interesting email, that I hope he will send to the whole group
Pema Pera: about breathing, about epoche, and about shifts in general
Pema Pera: Hi Anonymous!
Pema Pera: come join us if you like
Anonymous: hi
Pila Mulligan: at the moment I'm contemplating controversy about starting at the end of others paths, or having special access “to the end”
Riddle Sideways: general sciences base on the Observer
Riddle Sideways: music/art bases on the listener/viewer
Riddle Sideways: those can and do shift all the time
Pema Pera: Anonymous, feel free to sit down. We get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ -- we record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?
Anonymous: I'm not sure yet
Riddle Sideways: ok
Susi Alcott: hi Anonymous
Pema Pera: Pila, "starting" is an unfortunate term, I should have said "being"
Pema Pera: and it is not a question of special access
Pila Mulligan: why would a traditional practitioner take offense at an animated chat site's approach to discussing things? Second Life is a place for discussion. It is not posible to conjure up and inject decades of practice into our SL avis, but there is the possibility of discussing things that have envolved from years of practice even while the people in the discussion have not done those years themselves.

Pila refered to an email exchange in the PaB email group, in which Stim had talked about the need for more explanation about the PaB approach, and Maxine and Solobill had picked up on Stim's use of the word `controversy.'

Anonymous: trying to find a group focussed on economics
Pila Mulligan: sorry, bad timing with regard to Anonymous's comment :)
Pema Pera: rather, I like to talk about how everybody already has access . . . .
Pema Pera: sorry, Anonymous, I don't know about economics
Pema Pera: I don't think anyone is taking offense, Pila
Pema Pera: at least I hope not :)
Pema Pera: I'm a little puzzled at the use of the word "controversy" though, in recent emails
Pila Mulligan: it would not seem to be a genuine distress :)
Pema Pera: I haven't really seen a controversy, has anyone?
Pila Mulligan: only in the emails
Pema Pera: Stim suggested that some things I said could be construed that way . . . then that word was taken up
Pema Pera: Funny how things can be spontaneously generated :-)
Stim Morane: Oh? I'm behind on email.
Stim Morane: I'll have to see what the word has triggered. I mentioned it as a hypothetical.
Pema Pera: Maxine and Solo picked up on your "unhelpful controversy" as if we were in the middle of one or so it seemed
Stim Morane: Oh
Pema Pera: it puzzled me a bit
Stim Morane: Interesting.
Pema Pera: Stim had written: "since you are trying to encourage people in PaB specifically by alleging that they enjoy some advantage compared with others in more traditional groups, do you think your gesture might run the risk of promoting unhelpful controversy?"
Pema Pera: and I answered "no" with some explanation
Pema Pera: :-)
Stim Morane: Well, I was just trying to encourage the latter.

It was clear to me that Stim was asking for some explanation.

Pema Pera: yes, I understand.
Pema Pera: Maxine wrote in response: felt a wish to make a brief comment about what Steven refers to about the 'unhelpful controversy' which can arise I believe out of doubt about the advantages of PaB
Pema Pera: But I don't think that Stim was "doubting" the advantages of PaB, were you, Stim?
Pila Mulligan: Stim, finding people to discuss these advanced writings and practices in Second Life is something of a miracle, based on my prior experience with SL :)
Stim Morane: Hmm. Email is certainly a tricky medium.
Stim Morane: This is why I concentrate on sitting down to lunch with people.

We did not get a chance to comment right away on Pila's observation, since a new visitor arrived, and then Stim had to leave.

Pema Pera: Hi Deanwolf, feel free to join us here
Stim Morane: :)
Susi Alcott: hi Dean
DeanWolf Core: Hi everyone
Stim Morane: As I mentioned, since I'm running ga retreat this weekend, I will have to go in a minute. Sorry.
Stim Morane: *a retreat
Pema Pera: You're welcome to join our group, Deanwolf. We get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ -- we record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?
Pema Pera: But Stim, to avoid doubt about doubt, can you respond to my: [19:33] Pema Pera: But I don't think that Stim was "doubting" the advantages of PaB, were you, Stim?
DeanWolf Core: it ok for me and thank u
Stim Morane: No, of course not.
Pema Pera: thank you, DeanWolf!
Pema Pera: You are right, though, Stim, email is tricky, even among people who know each other well . . . so easy to read (slightly) different contexts in the same sentences . . .
Pema Pera: And yes, Pila, I find it also amazing that we can talk about "making the goal the path", finding ourselves already at the end of a path . . . .
Pema Pera: It seems that in SL it is possible to talk about the beginnin and the end, but not easily about the middle stages of a path . . . .
DeanWolf Core: beetween black and white...when its more grey i think...
Stim Morane: Ducking out ... bye everyone!
Pema Pera: bye Stim!
Pila Mulligan: well, Pema you are not claiming to sell prepackaged expereince, as I understand it
Pila Mulligan: bye Stim
Pila Mulligan: have a blissful retreat
Hana Hendrassen: bye Stim
Pema Pera: oh no, on the contrary, Pila
Susi Alcott: bye Stim
Pema Pera: no selling, no packaging, not even experience !
Pema Pera: rather pointing at a kind of seeing that may go beyond even experience
Pema Pera: DeanWolf, you arrived just a few days ago in SL, are you enjoying your exploration?
Pema Pera: And Pila, how do you see what we can do here, what the possibilities are?
Pila Mulligan: ... Dean, you first :)

DeanWolf's profile told me that he had been born in SL three days earlier.

DeanWolf Core: well..i dont know to much about me...or what i suppose expecto of me
DeanWolf Core: talking about our experience...
DeanWolf Core: we can learn about the others and something like that
DeanWolf Core: yes
DeanWolf Core: yes...
DeanWolf Core: i wanna know more ...and have a good expierence here
DeanWolf Core: i dont know
DeanWolf Core: may be
Pila Mulligan: :)
DeanWolf Core: get some kind of job
DeanWolf Core: working in that
DeanWolf Core: and create my things
DeanWolf Core: oh i see
DeanWolf Core: here in the SL
Pema Pera: lots of options for all that in SL, DeanWolf! Our little circle is just one of the zillions of activities -- we just come here to chat.
DeanWolf Core: i see that
Pema Pera: but many of us have experience with building and other activities as well
DeanWolf Core: but i lieke to be in meditation
Hana Hendrassen: true true
DeanWolf Core: so its good place for me to be right now here
Pema Pera: our kind of meditation is rather unusual, only 9 seconds at a time, once every 15 minutes :)
Pema Pera: very short, but very many of them
Pema Pera: a shower, rather than a bath
Pema Pera: many small holes . . . .
DeanWolf Core: i see

Pila then picked up the earlier question of possibilities. What is it we can do here?

Pila Mulligan: Q: what we can do here, what are the possibilities ...
Pila Mulligan: earlier today, here, Storm said he once managed to become more aware of the internal circulation of energy (chi, ki, etc) during a discussion of a scholarly study of runes -- that is one example of success in group discussion
Pila Mulligan: he referred to the 9 second method as safe -- and that is an important consideration
Pema Pera: yes, very much so
Pila Mulligan: a sudden and unexpected awakening of internal energy can occur in meditation, but is less likey with the PaB method
DeanWolf Core: ok
Pema Pera: That's what I was also refering to, that the beginning and the end are relatively more safe than intermediate stages of working with specific energies and techniques, for which you probably really need a teacher
Pema Pera: but that is not to say that awakenings cannot occur with the 9-sec method . . . they may be more spontaneous, less induced, and perhaps more natural in that way
Pila Mulligan: for many the gradual steps may not be enough, but for many it should have some helpful results
Pema Pera: there is more individual difference, for sure, in working with the 9-sec, than there is in specific approaches that focus on specific results
Pema Pera: What fascinates me most, though, is the PaB focus on "no results", "no gain" . . . .
Pema Pera: in line with "no doing", wu-wei
Pila Mulligan: well, I remind you of my caveat on that :)
Pila Mulligan: action to attain non-action -- in this case, perhaps, the action of the 9 second pause
Pema Pera: sure, we have to understand what we mean with that -- like with any term
Pema Pera: wu-wei can pervade one's whole life, any moment, any action can be done without "doing", without friction or manipulation -- would you consider that a reasonable summary, Pila?
DeanWolf Core: right?
DeanWolf Core: everyone knows...that we are just a little space of time here
Hana Hendrassen: I've got to go and focus on studying right now... see you all later!
Pila Mulligan: yes, but it is an actual immersion in what some call harmony with nature that makes the condition enduring -- otherise it is an occasional or fleeting condition, when harmony with nature occurs
Pema Pera: thanks for stopping bye, Hana!
Pila Mulligan: bye Hana
Susi Alcott: see you Hana
Hana Hendrassen: bye bye

While Hana left, Steve joined us.

Pila Mulligan: hi steve
Pema Pera: yes, continuity is important, Pila
Pema Pera: Hi Steve!
DeanWolf Core: i dont know...but what i study...its about astronomy
Pema Pera: And the frequency of the 9-sec, every 15 minutes, can stimulate continuity
stevenaia Michinaga: Hi, I came for the punchline again
Susi Alcott: hi steve
DeanWolf Core: and the evolution of the sun
Pema Pera: hahaha, Steve!
DeanWolf Core: so ...i said that for this reason
Pila Mulligan: oh that remonds me of a terrible joke
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Pila Mulligan: what reason, Dean
Pema Pera: and what joke, Pila
Pila Mulligan: :) I should not have ecen thought it Pema
DeanWolf Core: that im studing phisics and astronomy...and all the evolution of the sun
Pila Mulligan: a god joke, and it involves a bodily part
Pila Mulligan: well, astronomy is certainly a valid topic to bring to this forum :)
Susi Alcott: we all are adults
DeanWolf Core: i said that we are just a little time in the universe for that reason
Susi Alcott: : to Pila
Pila Mulligan: yes we are almots immeasurable it seems, i time
Pila Mulligan: in time*
DeanWolf Core: astronomy...and all the nature its all in one
Pema Pera: yes, DeanWolf, we are located in tiny space and time, within the universe, yet the universe for us is located in our awareness, isn't it, all of the universe . . .
Pema Pera still waiting for the joke, patiently
Susi Alcott: same hear
Susi Alcott: here
Pema Pera: all ear
Pema Pera: here

And so we were.

Pila Mulligan: if I do, you may want to delete it form the chat log -- so god created adam, ..
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Pila Mulligan: and he said adam, there i ssome good nes and some bad news
Pema Pera: ~\!/~
Pila Mulligan: and adam said, ok god, let's start with the good news
Pila Mulligan: god said, adam I have made you and given you a brain and a penis
Pila Mulligan: and adam said, ok god, and the bad news?
DeanWolf Core: we are an universe
Pema Pera: hahaha

(I enjoyed the timing of DeanWolf's remark)

Pila Mulligan: god said, I have only given you enough blood to use one at a time
DeanWolf Core: like the the same universe are
DeanWolf Core: i think
Susi Alcott: rofl
Pema Pera enjoying juxtapositions of jokes :-)
Pema Pera: well, I vote for leaving that comment in the log, don't you think? Any objections?
Pema Pera: it's too good to drop
Pila Mulligan: I canot be responsible for the repercussions :)
Susi Alcott: agree
DeanWolf Core: fine for me
Pema Pera: well, I see that we're past the hour, I have to get going
DeanWolf Core: ok
stevenaia Michinaga: unfortunaltely, sometimes reality in joke form is too funny
Pema Pera: Nice meeting you, DeanWolf, feel free to come see us again
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Pila Mulligan: bye Pema -- have a nice afternoon
DeanWolf Core: thanks to all of you
Pema Pera: bye everyone -- see you all soon again!
stevenaia Michinaga: glad I came before the punchline
Pema Pera: hahaha!
stevenaia Michinaga: night pema

At that point I left, and dropped by at another event in Second Life, since I had just received a note:

BLUE LOTUS EVENTS group:
Please join me in the ochaya for some evening tea,
conversation..music and dance.
Any time is a good time to relax!
I hope to see you soon. :)
~Maiko Mizuko

I tp-ed over, and found a merry crowd, including fellow guardian Geo. We witnessed song and dance, and we even partook in collective haiku creation, in which Geo played a star role.