2008.12.12 01:00 - Anger and tumbleweeds

Wol Euler was guardian for this session.

Wol Euler: morning gaya.
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Anonymous-san ^^
Wol Euler: hello Anonymous
Anonymous: hello
Anonymous: rezzing
Anonymous: there we go
Wol Euler: are you from [a certain place]?
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Anonymous: which one?
Anonymous: if you mean [that place] yes
Wol Euler: yes, that's what I meant
Wol Euler: has Gaya told you about PaB, or should I give you the formal introduciton?
Gaya Ethaniel: I've given her the notecard
Anonymous: hai
Wol Euler: good, ty :)
Gaya Ethaniel: And all we say here are recorded for the wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ is that ok Anonymous-san?
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Wol Euler: hello pema
Anonymous: long as it's anonymous
Pema Pera: Hi Wol, Gaya, Anonymous!
Anonymous: hello perma ^^
Fael Illyar: Hi Wol, Pema, Anonymous, Gaya :)
Wol Euler: Anonymous we could _make_ it anonymous if you want, but by default is is not.
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Wol Euler: hello fael
Anonymous: would prefer hitting anonymous button on this one
Pema Pera: Great to see you again, Anonymous -- 't has been a long time!
Wol Euler: ok, noted.
Pema Pera: hi Fael!
Fael Illyar: anonymous button?
Anonymous: yes it has been a while ^^
Wol Euler: Anonymous doesn't want to be named in the log.
Pema Pera: Anonymous visited PaB way back in May, Wol
Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
Wol Euler: ah, before my time.
Fael Illyar: most likely before mine too.
Anonymous: random spot i happened to drop in on
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^

We get down to business.

Gaya Ethaniel: I've been re-reading Anger by Thich Nhat Hanh after Solo mentioning in one of the session... wonder if we can discuss anger?
Gaya Ethaniel: [Read it years ago...]
Wol Euler: sure. would you care to lead off?
Anonymous laughs "to be honest at the time i was clueless what this place was at the time"
Gaya Ethaniel: How do you transform anger? Anyn experiences to share?
Faenik: ah :)
Pema Pera: my approach would be not to try to transform it . . . . just to see it, to watch it
Gaya Ethaniel listens
Anonymous curiosly perks ears
Pema Pera: in general there are three approaches: avoidance, transformation, "as is"
Pema Pera: most forms of spiritual practice give rules: avoid this and that -- very sensible
Pema Pera: some try to transform, much more tricky -- tantra for example; better to have a really good teacher
Pema Pera: and then the even more radical approach, as in zen or dzogchen neither avoids nor transforms but starts with what is, as is
Pema Pera: PaB falls in that category
Gaya Ethaniel: I tend to embrace it, sit in it to 'see'...
Pema Pera: yes
Gaya Ethaniel: Otherwise I push it aside and avoid
Pema Pera: but when entering it, it is good to work with at least the hypothesis that all that is ultimately not real: open and empty and clear, as it is
Pema Pera: no need to "believe", no dogma
Pema Pera: but does implies also not believing in the heaviness of the emotions
Pema Pera: allowing for at least the possibility that it is as relative, like the story in a movie or dream
Pema Pera: and then, yes, sit in it :)
Gaya Ethaniel: How does one do that while respecting the anger?
Pema Pera: I greatly respect the stories of good movies and good dreams
Pema Pera: without having to give them the status of independently existing, outside their framework
Gaya Ethaniel: Of course... otherwise I wouldn't take time to observe and work with it...
Pema Pera: I myself, Pema or Piet, does not exist outside the framework of the story of our shared reality . . .
Wol Euler: anger is a narrative?
Gaya Ethaniel: Not to me at least
Fael Illyar: for me, anger seems to be a kind of "energy" that helps me take action that I otherwise would not dare. Could that be what the transforming means?
Pema Pera: our whole world is like a fairy tale, like a dream . . . .
Pema Pera: I'm not focusing on any particular element as narrative
Pema Pera: it's the whole story, all of it, time included
Pema Pera: and within that story, yes, it makes sense to talk about energy and ways to handle anger
Pema Pera: and to transform it, sure
Gaya Ethaniel nods... we are talking on different levels it seems
Wol Euler: not for the first time :)
Anonymous: question say the energy goes beyond you're point of control without warning or inability to do something with it?
Fael Illyar: Pema, it'd help if you give your reply on the same level the person asking the question is on.
Pema Pera: could be
Pema Pera: as Faenik would say :)
Pema Pera: sometimes the answer on a different level can cut through the seemingly intractable problem on a different level
Faenik: could be
Pema Pera: sometimes it is better to stay on the same level -- it all depends
Gaya Ethaniel: It's easy to forget the 'big picture' Pema describes... especially caught in deep emotions...
Wol Euler: indeed
Gaya Ethaniel: Good reminder perhaps
Pema Pera: but I prefer to do both!
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
Pema Pera: Like to have it all . . . :)
Pema Pera: why not?
Pema Pera: so yes, as Anonymous just said, if the energy gets too much, out of control, what do you do?

I missed this possible fork in the conversation, sorry Pema — and sorry Anon too.

Wol Euler: to answer your question as you asked it, gaya: I stop and look at myself and try to see why I am angry. Why do I care? What do I think just happened to make me angry?
Wol Euler: am I really angry at that person about that thing/action/statement/nonaction
Wol Euler: or is there something else behind it?
Gaya Ethaniel nods... sounds very good
Fael Illyar: IF it gets too much for me to handle, I tend to look for ways to detach myself, physically, if necessary from the situation that's having me generate all that energy.
Wol Euler: often the anger calms very quickly, and I see how to reply in a way that doesn't just escalate into a flame war.
Wol Euler: doesn't always work, of course (smiles at Pema)
Pema Pera: me smiles back
Wol Euler: because the other person is usually angry too, and is often NOT stopping to consider why they are so, but are "shooting back" with live ammunition.
Pema Pera: that is where I find it useful to mix the relative and absolute
Pema Pera: seeing the live ammo as light
Anonymous: that what?
Anonymous: the relative and absolute are what?
Pema Pera: ah, the two levels: I spoke from a more absolute level, and Gaya and Fael suggested I speak more on a relative level
Pema Pera: but mixing them can be helpful too, respecting both

But no matter! Pema returns us to the crossroads and leads us up the other fork.

Pema Pera: like, Anonymous, as you said: what to do if suddenly the energy gets out of hand?
Pema Pera: Two solutions:
Pema Pera: relative: try to get it to cool down
Pema Pera: absolute: see it as light, as powerless
Gaya Ethaniel: I didn't suggest that Pema
Pema Pera: sorry, Gaya, what did you mean?
Anonymous: I only took psych 101 so i donot remember all the terms
Gaya Ethaniel: I was pointing out that you are talking about absolute while my question was relative...
Wol Euler: 7me smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: As you said having the awareness on all levels are useful ^^
Pema Pera: yes, ah, and then Fael suggested I respond on relative level
Pema Pera: in any case, we can all use both levels :)
Faenik: could be
Pema Pera: and all the many levels in between, as we wish -- but yes, it is good to be clear on which kind of level we speak
Gaya Ethaniel: When it gets too much, seeing all is illusions can really make the spiral of anger pause
Pema Pera: yes, if we can remember . . . .
Fael Illyar: Myself, I don't need the relative answer ... until the energy is enough that it pushes the awareness of absolute away from me.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Pema Pera: I think I need both
Pema Pera: and I certainly enjoy both
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Gaya Ethaniel: nods at remembering...*
Pema Pera: like a good meal with a blend of tastes :)
Fael Illyar: there's this distinction of need and actually using :) not having need doesn't mean not using :)

What is a movie? 

Pema Pera: watching a movie either as "really happening in front of you" or "just a play of light" is not very balanced . . .
Wol Euler: true
Pema Pera: "as an interesting story" is better, I think
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Wol Euler: (though I remember as a small child tipping my head back and watching the play of dust motes in the shifting beams of coloured light)
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^ me too
Pema Pera: oh yes, that's great fun too! (but probably not a whole day long :-)
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Gaya Ethaniel giggles
Faenik: ah :)
Pema Pera: you'd be forcefed with drugs if you did, these days . . . .
Wol Euler files that under "sad but true"
Gaya Ethaniel nods...
Pema Pera: pathelogical attention to light . . . . as diagnosis
Faenik: ah :)
Anonymous: I used to remember as a child I used to go outside during the summer and still do during summer i'd just sit maybe 3 or 4 hrs during the summer picking herbs it's fun but during the winter usually go out more too cold ouside
Wol Euler chuckles at "pathe"-logical
Pema Pera: bathelogical -- bathing in light!
Gaya Ethaniel giggles
Pema Pera: yes, Anonymous, I had similar joys in my childhood
Pema Pera: could spend hours at repetitive task, or nothing at all . . .
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Anonymous: fortunatetly me herbs are still alive my strawberries and apple tree wasn't so lucky
Gaya Ethaniel: Children can take joy out of simple things much more than adults...
Pema Pera: yes
Wol Euler: I think because they are so much more focussed than grownups
Wol Euler: they will try to walk _through_ you to get to what they see behind you.
Wol Euler: because they don't pay any attention to what is not immediately relevant to their desires
Pema Pera: sounds familiar . . .:)
Gaya Ethaniel: More focused more joy?
Wol Euler: focus -> flow -> joy, yes.
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
Wol Euler: well, yes, Pema. not just kids.
Pema Pera: ^^
Gaya Ethaniel often secretely wondered about Pema's age... yes
Anonymous: i think that maybe it can be ageless
Pema Pera reflecting on how many adults are trying to walk through each other every day . . . .
Pema Pera: hehehe, Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^ such enthusiasm Pema
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: but sorry, Gaya, didn't mean to shift away from your talk about anger -- was there something else you wanted to say?
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^ I'm happy for the conversation to flow as it is
Pema Pera: flow -> joy (^_^)
Gaya Ethaniel: ^___^

Tumbleweeds make an appearance. 

Anonymous giggles "i'm happy it is flowing and no tumblweeds"
Pema Pera: I love tumbleweeds!
Pema Pera: we could add some here, I'm sure . . . .
Pema Pera: but they might get stuck in the fountain?
Anonymous: lol
Gaya Ethaniel: We had some rezzed over at the old pavilion once
Fael Illyar: that might be interesting :)
Anonymous: i meant tumbleweeds as in when things go deadly silent for some reason
Gaya Ethaniel: Oh we are famous for the tumbleweeds moments too Ver-san
Fael Illyar can't remember too many lately though.
Wol Euler: funny how they last longer and disturb less than in RL ...
Gaya Ethaniel: Some can't bear it and leave
Wol Euler: "more bigger fun now!"
Gaya Ethaniel giggles
Pema Pera wonders how many people know the song "Tumbing Tumbleweeds" . . . .
Anonymous: nope
Gaya Ethaniel looks up...
Pema Pera: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumbling_Tumbleweeds
Wol Euler: go to voice and sing it for us :-)
Pema Pera: I like the version by Michael Nesmith
Gaya Ethaniel: http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=_UiSMyyj-Ac
Wol Euler: ty

Fael leaves us for RL, with Pema's departure not far behind. Crusty arrives to maintain the balance.

Fael Illyar: Well, it's time for me to leave for work. See you later everyone :)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Fael Illyar: Hi Crusty, Bye Crusty :)
Pema Pera: (who was the one who got me into virtual worlds, and hence on the path to PaB)
Faenik: ah :)
Wol Euler: bye fael, take care
Wol Euler: and hello crusty
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Crusty ^^
Crusty Goldshark: hi guys
Pema Pera: Hi Crusty
Wol Euler: nesmith?
Gaya Ethaniel: This the right song Pema?
Pema Pera: yes one of the four Monkees
Wol Euler: o.O
Pema Pera: dunno Gaya, I'm in a coffee shop
Pema Pera: can't play songs here, would ennoy neighbors >_<
Wol Euler: ah
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ^^
Pema Pera: he got me into Videoranch, to give a talk on astronomy, one and a half years ago
Pema Pera: that's how I got into virtual worlds
Wol Euler: aaaah
Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
Anonymous: having neighbors angry at us not best idea =x
Pema Pera: had no interest in it before
Pema Pera: hehehe
Anonymous: seeing as there is many south of us
Wol Euler smiles. I'd been hearing about SL for years, deriding it unseen, before I decided to try
Pema Pera: yes, common reaction -- still, among my colleagues . . . .
Wol Euler: "What, so you walk around and talk to people, and buy things, but htat costs money so you have to work?"
Wol Euler: "I already hve one of those"
Pema Pera suddenly reminded about RL realizes he has to get out to dinner . . .
Wol Euler: ah :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy your evening Pema ^^
Wol Euler: bon appetit! enjoy the evening
Anonymous: byes pema
Crusty Goldshark: bye
Pema Pera: in the winter time, without daylight savings, PAB sessions are at inconvenient times here in Japan
Pema Pera: 6, 12, 18, 24
Pema Pera: which means sleep, lunch, dinner, sleep !!!
Anonymous: lol
Gaya Ethaniel nods...
Pema Pera wondering who ever dreamt up these inconvenient times . . . . .
Gaya Ethaniel giggles
Wol Euler raises n eyebrow
Pema Pera: see you all soon again!
Anonymous: good question
Crusty Goldshark: cu
Gaya Ethaniel whispers... Pema came up with the times Anonymous-san
Crusty Goldshark: LOL
Anonymous: oye
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^

Building and other SL endeavours. 

Crusty Goldshark: Being new to SL I have been trying to build a boat
Crusty Goldshark: to get to the far shore
Wol Euler: oh?
Crusty Goldshark: Yes I half buried it and am trying to turn it into a Buddhist shrine
Gaya Ethaniel: ah... an interesting looking shrine that'd be
Anonymous: half buried the boat?
Crusty Goldshark: Yes it was a canoe - pointing upward with half buried - I thought a canoe might get me there . .
Anonymous: i've found building to be a royal pain in sl but in time worth it's effort
Wol Euler: like anything else, it has to be learned and practiced...
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Crusty Goldshark: I might try a T shirt design first - that might be easier?
Wol Euler: actually, in my experience it isn't. Making clothes look reasonable is terribly difficult.
Wol Euler: the textures, you see, and the folds and the light ...
Wol Euler shudders.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Crusty Goldshark: Maybe it could say "Knows Nothing"
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: if you want to try, there are a set of templates that you can download
Anonymous: i've founding things seem to go in this order when things being most difficult like skins, buildings, clothing/eyes and hair
Wol Euler: showing how the "contour lines" match up around the body.
Crusty Goldshark: yes I have some templates and been to the Ivory Library - I think it is . . .
Gaya Ethaniel: My time's up here... have a good day/evening all ^^
Crusty Goldshark: bye gaya
Anonymous: byes gaya
Wol Euler: bye gaya, enjoy the day.
Crusty Goldshark: well useful to know about difficulty levels . . :)
Wol Euler: sorry, Anonymous, didn't mean to run across your words
Anonymous: thats ok
Anonymous: but i do find people who usually build skins seems the hardest take i know of in sl but my advice maybe try finding and observing builders contests
Crusty Goldshark: OK will try that
Wol Euler: hang around the sandboxes asking questions.
Crusty Goldshark: My aim is to build a YinYana shrine
Wol Euler: most people are glad to help if you are friendly and ask politely
Wol Euler: that sounds interesting, crusty.
Crusty Goldshark: Yes I have been to sandboxes
Anonymous: however i find builders have trade secrets and privacy they keep
Wol Euler: sure, they won't tell everything to everyone :)
Crusty Goldshark: Yinyana is a Buddhist heresy
Wol Euler: oh?
Anonymous: best bet is to ask them how they made the shape of it nothing else
Crusty Goldshark: . . . fortunately they don't have heresy in Buddhism . . .
Crusty Goldshark: :)
Crusty Goldshark: I will try doing some courses Anonymous too :)
Wol Euler: I'm sorry, I shll have to move on. Please feel free to remain here and talk.
Wol Euler: Anonymous it was nice meeting you. I'll take your name out fo the logs.
Wol Euler: bye crusty