2008.12.07 01:00 - Techy PaB

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Moon Fargis. The comments are by Moon, once he gets up to it.

    Pila Mulligan: hello Moon
    Moon Fargis: morning :)
    Pila Mulligan: how are you?
    Moon Fargis: im fine:) just woke up and looking around for some tea :,)
    Moon Fargis: hmm
    Pila Mulligan: find some?
    Fael Illyar: Hi Moon :)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Pila
    Fael Illyar: Hi Crusty :)
    Pila Mulligan: hello Fael
    Moon Fargis: hi :)
    Pila Mulligan: hello Crusty
    Crusty Goldshark: Hi Guys
    Moon Fargis: yesterday was a funny day.. tryd to build up a new computer system here
    Moon Fargis: new mainboard, cpu ram....
    Fael Illyar: ... tried? it didn't work?
    Crusty Goldshark: Lovely - I intend doing a new motherboard soon - What did you use Moon?
    Moon Fargis: hehe well theres a intresting thing .. Power supplys, that always where under power (atx standby) dont take it funny if they are completley switched off for some time without power
    Moon Fargis: they trudley explode when you put the powercord back to them
    Crusty Goldshark: Yes I have had a smoking power supply
    Fael Illyar: Oh, your power supply broke?
    Crusty Goldshark: It is worth getting an overpowered one and then using it at low power
    Moon Fargis: yes with sparkles. hehe but luckyly theres a computerstore wich was still open at saturday evening
    Moon Fargis: so atm its running
    Moon Fargis: crusty: im using a KS790GX from MSI
    Moon Fargis: KA790gx
    Crusty Goldshark: Yes mine (a Chinese power supply) crackled and sparked and smoked) Cheap and dangerous
    Crusty Goldshark: It was only about 3 months old
    Fael Illyar has never had a power supply do that.
    Moon Fargis: yes the chinese are addicted to do fireworks hehe
    Crusty Goldshark: :)
    Fael Illyar: So, which processor did you take
    Moon Fargis: amd phenom X3 8450
    Crusty Goldshark: Gosh never evenheard of a Phenom . . .
    Moon Fargis: ^^ well the lastest processors from amd with 3 or more cores
    Crusty Goldshark: I intend to get anAsus Motherboard with Expressgate (boots into a Linux Firefox and Skype from the bios) - not concerned about processor - it is the GPU I need for SL
    Moon Fargis: ahyes
    Moon Fargis: hmm atm i am running a Radeon 3850
    Moon Fargis: wich is quiet good :)
    Crusty Goldshark: I come to SL using Puppy Linux and a 64MEg Nvidia card at the moment - It is OK (not even possible with Windows) but want a 256Meg graphic card
    Fael Illyar: not entirely true. amd's slowest processors aren't a good idea for SL
    Crusty Goldshark: OK - what would you suggest?
    Fael Illyar: well, I know core2duo 2.26GHz is enough :)
    Fael Illyar: (that's what my laptop has eaten)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Becka :)
    Crusty Goldshark: I am using a Duron 1200mz at the moment - so is too slow
    Becka Finesmith: HI Fael
    Moon Fargis: hi becka
    Fael Illyar: but the athlon 64x2 4200+ in my desktop is a tad too slow.
    Pila Mulligan: hello Becka
    Becka Finesmith: Hi Moon
    Crusty Goldshark: Hi Becka
    Moon Fargis: uh ohh duron 1200 :)
    Fael Illyar: not everywhere but sometimes
    Becka Finesmith: Hi Crusty
    Crusty Goldshark: LOL - you guys running Windows no doubt?
    Moon Fargis: uhm
    Becka Finesmith: Most popular OS in the world :)
    Moon Fargis: format c::
    Moon Fargis: normally i am a amiga user:)
    Fael Illyar: Ubuntu, actually.
    Crusty Goldshark: Yes also the slowest OS - Puppy Linux runs from Ram so is faster - I actually boot it from CD/DVD in less time than most bloated Windows take - about 40 secs
    Becka Finesmith: Do you think most users really care about that?
    Fael Illyar: I know many do.
    Crusty Goldshark: I have Ubuntu on the HD too - but it is rather slow
    Fael Illyar: especially people who shutdown their computers for the night.
    Becka Finesmith: yes. That is a pain but never the less, if users where really worried about that, they would go out and buy an alternative- How many actually do?
    Crusty Goldshark: People use what works for them - I have a Mac rarelyuse it. I have a netbook - useful - rarelyuse it. I could be running Windows but no longer bother . . .
    Fael Illyar: (one of the things my mother noted happily is that the computer actually boots fast after I'd moved them to Ubuntu.)
    Crusty Goldshark: Use what works for you and makes you happy.
    Becka Finesmith: Not using a computer makes me happy and gives me less headaches :)
    Becka Finesmith: ;)
    Crusty Goldshark: You have an easy solution then . . .
    Fael Illyar: well, can't have that all the time ;)
    Crusty Goldshark: Maybe you don't wish to be happy :)
    Becka Finesmith: Indeed Fael
    Moon Fargis: ah well elts all go back to dos :)
    Becka Finesmith: I'm with Moon
    Moon Fargis shakes his head when he see that for example vista need 6 gig of free space
    Moon Fargis: (business edition )
    Crusty Goldshark: My HD is only 14 Gig
    Fael Illyar blinks ... SL must eat a big part of it.
    Moon Fargis: but even the normal one drain over 3 gig just as plain install
    Crusty Goldshark: My operating system is less then 100MB
    Moon Fargis: yep
    Moon Fargis: as you can see it also works with less. but i dunno why M$ always wants more and more takes more and more
    Moon Fargis: i belive they dont care
    Crusty Goldshark: So I can run it on 'junk' hardware
    Becka Finesmith: Do you think Computers detract us from PaB :0
    Becka Finesmith: distract
    Fael Illyar: I find it pretty rare :)
    Moon Fargis: i belive computers braucght us to pab :
    Crusty Goldshark: http://www.puppylinux.org/ if you are interested - canstill run your existing OS - just set bios to boot from CD if it is not already doing so
    Crusty Goldshark: Computers are a means to an end - What is the end/ :)
    Fael Illyar: too many to list :)
    Becka Finesmith: when we are all machines and worry more about our OS's :)
    Crusty Goldshark: What is the priority? is there one?
    Fael Illyar: none that I know of ... oh wait, for me it'd be communication
    Crusty Goldshark: Communication with self/selvesor others? Is there adifference?
    Fael Illyar: oh, shiny star, Moon :)
    Moon Fargis: actually it shouldnt shine :)
    Fael Illyar: communication, doesn't matter who it is with that much :P
    Pila Mulligan: I use an old Windows 2000 system with just enough resources to run SL, and a 600k mobile boradband connection -- it crashes a lot -- just listening to you guys describe contemporary stuff makes me nervous :) if my system hears you it will crash for sure
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Fael Illyar: my laptop, that runs SL perfectly well, cost just 850€ two months ago :)
    Fael Illyar: wb Moon :)
    Moon Fargis: hmmm becka is still ghosted ;(
    Crusty Goldshark: I quite like the ghost effect was going to use it as an avatar . . .
    Becka Finesmith: lol
    Becka Finesmith: hang on
    Moon Fargis: hehe then you make alot of people nevous :)
    Crusty Goldshark: with a xmas hat
    Moon Fargis: and flying up verry hight and down to see you :)
    Becka Finesmith: hows that?
    Moon Fargis: still not ;(
    Becka Finesmith: Oh well. I have to go anyway :( See you all later.
    Fael Illyar: See you later Becka :)
    Pila Mulligan: bye Becka
    Becka Finesmith: namaste
    Crusty Goldshark: Bye Becka - be kind to the fish
    Moon Fargis: *meow meow*
    Moon Fargis: but so far i see the new system as the roundest system i got.. ati gfx card , amd chipset mainboard and amd cpu
    Moon Fargis: one bad thing is still there.. it has nor ps2 mouse connector
    Crusty Goldshark: Everything is USB now - you can get adaptors
    Moon Fargis: hope such one exists, usb to ps2
    Fael Illyar: Eventually there will likely just be one connector we use for everything :)
    Moon Fargis: always saw it ps2/usb
    Pila Mulligan: or wireless
    Fael Illyar: yes, wireless probably as well.
    Moon Fargis: hehe
    Moon Fargis: there was a machine
    Moon Fargis: back in 1990 91
    Moon Fargis: amiga CDTV
    Crusty Goldshark: USB 3 spec is out but is not compatible with bluetooth that would be a good idea . . .
    Moon Fargis: it looked like a videorecorder, was a half gaming console and computer
    Pila Mulligan: I still need a parallel printer to run a dbase accouting system I wrote 22 years ago on an Atari :)
    Moon Fargis: it had a IR keyboard, Mouse and Joystick
    Fael Illyar: Well, if you wrote it yourself, just add html output and that's easy enough to print :P
    Pila Mulligan: it has to print to text -- dbase 3
    Crusty Goldshark: I used to teach one of the few classes for the Amiga - in London - we used the Amiga 200 - had a network of them
    Crusty Goldshark: 2000
    Moon Fargis: ahh yes i also got one here
    Moon Fargis: hehe big and heavy
    Moon Fargis: bbut still runs like a dream
    Moon Fargis: even the old powersupply
    Moon Fargis: no problems hehe
    Moon Fargis: no sparkles or flashes
    Fael Illyar: oh wow, dbase 3, didn't remember the name but I've seen that system and played around with it :)
    Pila Mulligan: ancient stuff :)
    Pila Mulligan: 512 k was cnosidered a ton of memory then
    Fael Illyar: yes... modern OSes consider that the amount of memory to keep spare at all times :P
    Moon Fargis: ah well.. where are we now. came from a computer that needed one disk, and 512 k of ram to boot
    Retro Zapatero: ?
    Retro Zapatero: ?
    Crusty Goldshark: Hi retro
    Retro Zapatero: hi
    Retro Zapatero: hi
    Fael Illyar: Hello Retro :)
    Pila Mulligan: hello Retro
    Moon Fargis: and then you even got free ram left (with gui!) to run a texteditor like programm to write or play some music
    Moon Fargis: hmm
    Moon Fargis: yes we are retro :)
    Fael Illyar: Yes, it's funny my music player eat a few tens of megabytes :P
    Moon Fargis: yes even most printer driver is larger than a Os was back then
    Pila Mulligan: this is my third visit to PaB, and it has been three in a row actually -- the first two were more philosophical :)
    Pila Mulligan: so I see the mundane emerges as well :)
    Fael Illyar: Yes, the topics sometimes go rather offtopic ;)
    Moon Fargis: but ust think where we would be now without those mem eating beasts infront of us
    Moon Fargis: atleast not in Pab :)
    Crusty Goldshark: Perhaps off topic. I tend to think that what and how people express is an indication of their inner nature.
    Crusty Goldshark: A CPU is us.
    Fael Illyar: nope, SL is the worst memory eating beast I have here :P
    Fael Illyar: easily eats almost 2 gigabytes
    Crusty Goldshark: I am using 512MB of ram
    Pila Mulligan: my Windows resources metere shows SL using 100% of the syetm frequently -- but again itis an old and measly system
    Moon Fargis: 45% cpu usage so far :)
    Pila Mulligan: comfy
    Moon Fargis: well 3 cpus are working on SL actually :)
    Fael Illyar: Yes, SL only uses one core ... well, another slightly if you enable multithreaded
    Crusty Goldshark: I am in the red on the lag meter - soneed to update hardware if i contue to use SL
    Fael Illyar: Yes, it's rather heavy :)
    Moon Fargis: but youalso can use altternative viewers
    Moon Fargis: or settle down the gfx details
    Crusty Goldshark: Alternative viwers?
    Pila Mulligan: I've used SLeek
    Pila Mulligan: it is minimal
    Moon Fargis: yes since sl is opensource there are different viewers hout there
    Fael Illyar: http://sldev.free.fr/
    Crusty Goldshark: I will look for Sleek
    Fael Illyar: this one is the homepage of one of them
    Crusty Goldshark: thanks for that ;)
    Pila Mulligan: it has no graphics Crusty :)
    Fael Illyar: Sleek ... well, that works but turns SL mostly into a text chat
    Pila Mulligan: Sleek is text only
    Moon Fargis: hehe
    Fael Illyar: and as far as I know, windows only
    Pila Mulligan: but it uses next to nothing to run
    Crusty Goldshark: Oh- I am veryvisuallyorientated - need visulas
    Crusty Goldshark: visuals
    Pila Mulligan: a screen shot as wallpaper?
    Pila Mulligan: the hard part with Sleek is getting around wihtout graphics :)
    Pila Mulligan: you kind of have to get there in regular mode and then shift over
    Fael Illyar: hmmh, a64x2 6000+ is down to 76€ here ... perhaps I should consider upgrading my desktop system :)
    Crusty Goldshark: Should I up the memory from 512MB or get a 256MB graphic card for immediate improvement?
    Moon Fargis: both :)
    Moon Fargis: haha
    Crusty Goldshark: Ithink you are right Monn - maybe next year . . .
    Moon Fargis: ^^
    Fael Illyar: crusty, SL's main memory requirement goes up right in sync with graphics memory setting
    Moon Fargis: well i actually bought 3 gig of ram for 30 euros
    Moon Fargis: (ddr2)
    Fael Illyar: my system has 512MB of graphics memory so SL eats almost 2GB of RAM.
    Pila Mulligan: may I ask where you folks are located in rl, please -- I am in Hawai`i -- it is almost midnight here
    Fael Illyar: Finland here :)
    Moon Fargis: germany
    Pila Mulligan: morning :)
    Crusty Goldshark: Well it might make sense to get the memory now - I canthen put this on a new motherboard later on . . .
    Moon Fargis: ah well
    Moon Fargis: depends crusty
    Moon Fargis: what memory do you actually use?
    Moon Fargis: sdram?
    Crusty Goldshark: I am in London 9:57
    Moon Fargis: Ddr1 ram ?
    Moon Fargis: when you buy a new mainboard you have to take care that your memory still fits in
    Crusty Goldshark: Not sure what the ram is - two 256Meg modules - let me look . . .
    Pila Mulligan: if you will escuse me please it is the Cinderella hour and the pumpkin is about to arrive
    Moon Fargis: ah ok have fun then :)
    Fael Illyar: See you later Pila :)
    Pila Mulligan: nice to sit and chat with you all -- aloha :)
    Fael Illyar waves.
    Fael Illyar: well, guess it's good this wasn't his first session ;)
    Fael Illyar: but Moon, I'd probably prefer a64x2 6000+ over that 3core phenom :)
    Crusty Goldshark: I think Ihave SDram . . .
    Moon Fargis: sure no prob i also thought of buying it.. but then i thought.. "ahh well when i buy something new then something that is upgradeable even in a few years"
    Moon Fargis: crusty: well then is really slow :)
    Fael Illyar: you can use both the phenom and that a64 on the same motherboard you nw:)
    Fael Illyar: uh, know, not nw
    Moon Fargis: fael: well when its a am2+ MB yes
    Moon Fargis: or a phenom ready board
    Fael Illyar: I'd expect that phenom 3x be around as fast as this a64x2 6000+
    Moon Fargis: i bought it becasue they went from 95nm (athlon) to 65 nm
    Crusty Goldshark: Is there much of a difference between a built in grpahic card and a seperate one?
    Moon Fargis: well yes the buildins are slower mostly :)
    Moon Fargis: but depends
    Fael Illyar: Yes, huge difference
    Moon Fargis: what gfxcard you put in to comparement
    Fael Illyar: even with the external ones in the 50€ range
    Crusty Goldshark: I have an AGp card
    Moon Fargis: well hehe i see that it will end for you to buy a completley new computer:)
    Fael Illyar: yes, old enough that you get to upgrade everything.
    Fael Illyar: but even just 300€ is enough to get pretty fast combination
    Crusty Goldshark: Maybe - but it will not be the latest most expensive technology because I never find that worth the extra
    Moon Fargis: yep min was around 250
    Moon Fargis: when you then add another gfx card.. yes 300 is a good price
    Fael Illyar: yes, my policy as well :)
    Crusty Goldshark: But the built in graphic card will be fine to start with?
    Fael Illyar: at the moment, paying over 100€ for a 3d card is not necessary for SL.
    Moon Fargis: crusty: yes depends what gfx card it is
    Fael Illyar: depends a bit on the builtin but you might see it's similar performance as your current one
    Crusty Goldshark: I am looking at Nvidia - possibly ATI
    Fael Illyar: nvidia/ati ... tricky choice still :)
    Moon Fargis: well the meinboard i told you got a buildin radeon 3300
    Moon Fargis: x3300
    Fael Illyar: especially in Linux environment
    Fael Illyar: nvidia has better binary only drivers but no open 3d drivers
    Fael Illyar: ati has open 3d drivers.
    Crusty Goldshark: Nvidia is open sourcing all its drivers - so i tend towards that - ATI now owned by AMD
    Fael Illyar: oh? nvidia is finally doing that?
    Crusty Goldshark: yes
    Fael Illyar: they might just keep me using their stuff then.
    Crusty Goldshark: On Puppy the most popular seem to be Nvidia and then ATI - hence my choice
    Moon Fargis: well there is also SLI
    Fael Illyar: do you know where to find a source that's talking about it
    Fael Illyar: I never saw much point in SLI, except for pairing two of the fastest cards
    Fael Illyar: which is clearly more power than I'll need
    Moon Fargis: http://www.3dchip.de/Grafikchipliste...tung_Graka.htm
    Moon Fargis: hese is a quiet usefull list
    Moon Fargis: even when its in german the liste should be understandable
    Moon Fargis: a ranking from the actual gfx cards but also keep in mind that they are reanked by technical data and user knowledge so if you find 2 different cards away out of 5 rangs they might be still the same ..sometimes now
    Moon Fargis: ont
    Moon Fargis: not
    Fael Illyar: the latest news about nvidia I could find on my lwn.net is about them deciding to keep drivers closed.
    Moon Fargis: but gives a basic overwiew
    Fael Illyar: from the end of last june
    Crusty Goldshark: m m m . . . can not find anything about Nvidia - may have got it confused - sorry - does that mean ATI would be a better bet for a built in Grphic card/ chip?
    Moon Fargis: if you want to stay linux compatible, yes
    Moon Fargis: i always used ati gfx cards so far
    Moon Fargis: so i really cant give a good hint for you
    Crusty Goldshark: Thanks Moon - AMD or Intel for CPU?
    Fael Illyar: yes, ati would be nicer for integrated cpu
    Fael Illyar: or intel
    Crusty Goldshark: No - I mean CPU
    Fael Illyar: integrated gpu that is
    Moon Fargis: wel intel got the perforcmance at their side atm but if you get a ati then a amd wouldalso be good
    Moon Fargis: thats what i call a round system
    Fael Illyar: ati integrated graphics tends to go along with amd processors nowadays
    Fael Illyar: (surprise)
    Moon Fargis: everything from one company to avoid driver confuseness
    Crusty Goldshark: OK will look into that - see what Asus do in this line
    Crusty Goldshark: I want Expressgate(splashtop)
    Fael Illyar: at the moment, I'm unfortunately all nvidia in 3d card department :/
    Fael Illyar: although, at the moment, it might still be a better option
    Crusty Goldshark: Why Fael?
    Fael Illyar: I just don't know how long it'll continue to be that.
    Fael Illyar: as in, short term, nvidia, long term ati
    Crusty Goldshark: IC
    Fael Illyar: the latest ubuntu seems to have reasonable support for at least the X1200 integrated graphics.
    Crusty Goldshark: OK guys time for my brekkie - thans for chat be kind to Klingons
    Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later Crusty :)
    Moon Fargis: dach pa!
    Crusty Goldshark: :)
    Moon Fargis: ok hehe techy pab
    Moon Fargis: so i will try now to et the xp partition back working with the vista bootloader
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Moon Fargis cuddles his amiga
    Moon Fargis: see you later fael ^^/
    Fael Illyar: you too :)
    Fael Illyar waves
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