2008.12.09 19:00 - Anybody Can Be a Healer

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    I, Pema was the guardian that night. I had to leave after half an hour, and Corvi provided the rest of the chat log.

    Pila Mulligan: hi Pema
    Susi Alcott: hi Pema
    Pema Pera: Hi Claire, Pila, Susi, Corvi!
    Claire Beltran: Hello, everyone ^-^/
    Pila Mulligan: hi Corvi
    Pila Mulligan: hello Claire
    Susi Alcott: hi Corv
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at everyone.
    Susi Alcott: how r you corv today ?
    Pema Pera: Adelene used to be the greeter-guardian on Tuesday evenings, for a while, but now I have taken over again, since two slots became a bit much for her

    I didn't notice the "corv" in Susi's question :-)

    Pema Pera: me? I'm hungry :-)
    Pema Pera: haven't eaten anything, and it is noon now . . . .
    Susi Alcott: :)
    Pila Mulligan: hungry for mental nourishment?
    Pema Pera: that too!
    Pila Mulligan: oh
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles. Pema, would you like me to take the log?
    Pema Pera: Hi Tarmel!
    Pila Mulligan: hi Tarmel
    Pema Pera: oh, that would be great, Corvi!
    Tarmel Udimo: hi all
    Corvuscorva Nightfire waves him on to food.
    Pema Pera: I will probably be dragged out of my office to go to lunch, before the hour is up
    Susi Alcott: hi Kira
    Susi Alcott: hi Tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: :)
    Pema Pera: We had a fun talk in the Kira Cafe, earlier, with Gilles speaking
    Pema Pera: that started at 7 am for me, and I've been online since then . . . . sigh, modern life
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: tomoorw's talk on dreams and fantasy looks interesting also
    Pema Pera: yes, Maxine is one of our oldtimers
    Tarmel Udimo: yes too bad I'll be at work, work
    Pema Pera: at PaB from the beginning, when we started at April 1
    Pema Pera: sorry to hear that Tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: but I
    Pila Mulligan: well Maxine's presentation be in vocie
    Tarmel Udimo: ll be reading the transcripts:)
    Pema Pera: Hi Kirkra, great to see you again!!
    Pila Mulligan: hi Kirkra
    Pema Pera: I think voice, but I'm not sure -- it's up to the speaker
    Susi Alcott: hi Kirkra
    Pila Mulligan: it was hard for me to do voice with Gilles due to low system resources -- some was garbled
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Kirkra!
    Kirkra Caerndow: Hi there!
    Tarmel Udimo: hi kirkia

    With Kirkra, there were now seven of us.

    Pema Pera: yes, in many ways I prefer text . . . .
    Pema Pera: half a dozen good reasons!
    Tarmel Udimo: I found it difficult to follow Gilies but I wouldn't mind us exploring something from your lecture pema
    Tarmel Udimo: the 4 ways of seeing
    Pema Pera: sure, shoot!
    Tarmel Udimo: are you using the word seeing = being
    Pema Pera: no, but I use the word "seeing" instead of "knowing"
    Pema Pera: the word knowing has so much baggage . . . .
    Pema Pera: so if you ask me how to be more in touch with Being, I'd say the answer is in seeing more
    Susi Alcott: I see :)
    Pema Pera: you could say "waking up" -- hehe, Susi :-)
    Pila Mulligan: I'll be
    Pema Pera: I bet
    Tarmel Udimo: and seeing implies experiencing
    Pema Pera: well, that's tricky
    Pema Pera: it can even go beyond experiencing !
    Pema Pera: when we say experiencing, we imply an experiencer, an I
    Pema Pera: and in fact we can drop the I . . . .
    Pema Pera: and then we just have appearance (in my choice of words as labels)
    Pema Pera: does that make some sense?
    Susi Alcott: sure
    Tarmel Udimo: yes except there are 'sensations' involved
    Pila Mulligan: are you using these to describe an individual's expereince? or is there such a thing, is it all collectvie instead?
    Tarmel Udimo: in the seeing
    Pema Pera: beyond all dichotomies, ultimately, including the pair individual-collective
    Pema Pera: <- Pila
    Pila Mulligan: hence drop the 'I', eh?
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pila Mulligan: but how about viewpoints?
    Pema Pera: or accept the I as something you have, not something you are -- no need to repress or deny anything
    Pema Pera: the challenge is ultimately to drop viewpoints too . . . .
    Pila Mulligan: thinking of the blind men and the elpehant parable
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: and then being the elephant perhaps

    A fascinating and multi-faceted discussion, so many ideas and suggestions:

    Pila Mulligan: but how can we be conscious of everything, don;t we have to pay attention to smething?
    Tarmel Udimo: except we want to have the ability to shift between these points of reference. one with the I and one without
    Kirkra Caerndow: If you can pay attention to the fact that you're paying attention, then you're almost there
    Pema Pera: *we* can't do much . . . .
    Pema Pera: we can drop, stop . . ..
    Pema Pera: and then something opens up, more and more . . . .
    Pema Pera: and we can take it from there
    Pema Pera: the 9-sec is a persistent, nagging invitation to keep stopping and dropping (^_^)
    Tarmel Udimo: this implies ultimately just existing
    Pema Pera: even beyond that
    Pema Pera: just appearing
    Tarmel Udimo: unconditionally
    Pema Pera: the notion of existing is an unnecessary extra
    Pema Pera: which will hinder you
    Kirkra Caerndow: It's the ability to stop worrying about the future or the past
    Kirkra Caerndow: But without being selfish
    Pema Pera: yes, no hope no fear
    Kirkra Caerndow: Hope is seen as a positive force, but even that can be a bad thing, a distraction
    Pema Pera: yes!
    Pema Pera: and accepting hope means accepting fear, as two sides of the same stick you accept
    Tarmel Udimo: no emotions
    Pema Pera: oh, sure, emotions are fine!
    Pila Mulligan: is there a purpose in this apporach to existence?
    Pema Pera: just don't cling to emotions
    Pema Pera: but don't suppress them either
    Tarmel Udimo: okay, still trying to define further
    Pema Pera: no purpose, you could say . . . but then we have to figure out what we mean by that -- no statetable purpose
    Tarmel Udimo: I guess I am asking the same question pila just did
    Pila Mulligan: not 'getting to heaven' or something likethat
    Tarmel Udimo: Pila sorry
    Pila Mulligan: :)

    I felt that by now I'd done more than my fair share of talking.

    Pema Pera: but let me be clear: I present my understanding of Being, if others have a different understanding, I'd be happy to hear that too -- I claim no monopoly in any which way :-)
    Kirkra Caerndow: Existance is certainly a good term
    Pema Pera: we are already in "heaven" :)
    Pila Mulligan: you noticed?
    Pema Pera: but we keep our eyes closed for it
    Kirkra Caerndow: Well, I wouldn't say that myself... Where we are is what we make of it
    Kirkra Caerndow: But yeah, I guess its true
    Kirkra Caerndow: But there is still so much pain.. In a way, it seems like goodness it defined by its counterpart
    Pema Pera: we are free -- so free in fact that we can consider ourselves "not free"
    Tarmel Udimo: I am in complete fundimental agreement with everything you say pema
    Tarmel Udimo: I am trying to bring into greater clarity
    Pema Pera: yes, because of pain we need compassion, for sure
    Tarmel Udimo: in a way we need signposts
    Pema Pera: and thanks, Tarmel, for probing -- we should probe more here, I think, all together, and come up with possible answers together
    Pila Mulligan: it may be age, but I'm getting the opinion that much philsophical theory is actually describing our unwinnable contest with rigor mortis -- it is mostly physical
    Pema Pera: I hope to write a book manuscript over Christmas -- and perhaps others will write their views
    Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_Book
    Kirkra Caerndow: I'd be happy to contribute
    Tarmel Udimo: hummm will have a think about that
    Pema Pera: philosophy is useless if it is not based on experience
    Tarmel Udimo: and I can't help thinking that because we are all at different stages of seeing we in fact need different uses of the words

    I picked up Pila's reference tot the physical.

    Pema Pera: but Pila, if life is like a dream, perhaps the physical is not really real . . .
    Pila Mulligan: real meaning?
    Pema Pera: yes, we can shape and choose words together, Tarmel, in a process
    Pema Pera: real meaning, Pila?
    Pila Mulligan: what would real mean in contrasting dreams with mundane waking
    Tarmel Udimo: nice moves there
    Pema Pera: I mean like in a movie, the movie story is a real story, but the movie in itself is a play of light
    Pema Pera: so it may equally be that this realm we find ourselves in, RL, is like a play of light, so to speak
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pema Pera: we shouldn't "buy in" to the interpretation we grow up with
    Pema Pera: in fact "time" could be just an appearance, and not real
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pema Pera: "rigor mortis" may not be rigorous at all :-)
    Pila Mulligan: this is existentialism in modern clothers, isn't it?
    Pema Pera: but all this has to be seen and felt
    Pema Pera: speculation is useless and tiring
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pema Pera: so I prefer to talk about how we experience stopping
    Pema Pera: but so hard to put in words . . . . .
    Pema Pera: . .. . looking into someones eyes and feeling time drop away . . . .
    Pema Pera: having the whole world come to a halt . .. .
    Pema Pera: and yet being more dynamic than ever!
    Pema Pera: open, free, bubbling yet totally quiet . . . .
    Tarmel Udimo: and do you expereince this 24X7
    Kirkra Caerndow: It's like the feeling of love... But do you think you could feel that by yourself?
    Kirkra Caerndow: Could you feel that way without being selfish and introverted?
    Pema Pera: no, on and off, but with increasing frequency over the years; with gaps that changed from months to days to minutes <- Tarmel
    Pema Pera: not "by yourself" any love with "you" in it is possessive, in perhaps subtle ways
    Pema Pera: just stop, and freedom will be yours -- love too, but not the "yours" of the "you" that you normally think you are, but you as Being

    Back to the physical.

    Pila Mulligan: consider this: the gaps can be remedied better by physical means than by mental
    Pema Pera: can you say more, Pila?
    Pila Mulligan: if you expereince bliss, the you will have a memory of it and want it to continue
    Pila Mulligan: but it doesn't -- you get those gaps
    Pema Pera: yes, that's the problem
    Pila Mulligan: so you look for the answe
    Pila Mulligan: rreading books, talking to pople, watchin Google
    Pema Pera: (the problem: wanting to continue)
    Pila Mulligan: but those are mental efforts
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pila Mulligan: the solution is a physical effort
    Pema Pera: ah, another lunch gap for me :-)
    Pema Pera: sorry, knock on the door
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: enjoy :)
    Tarmel Udimo: enjoy
    Tarmel Udimo: I do agree with pila if i think I understand what he means
    Pema Pera: btw, as a footnote: I don't mean to dominate these discussions in any way. I have some ideas and some experience, and if you have questions about those, I'd be more than happy to respond, but I am eager to hear from all of you too, what your ideas and experiences and interpretations are
    Pema Pera: Sorry, Pila, that I don't have time to ask more right now.
    Pema Pera: Next time!
    Tarmel Udimo: bye
    Pila Mulligan: have a blissful lunch
    Kirkra Caerndow: Goodbye!
    Tarmel Udimo: :-)
    Susi Alcott: bye
    Pema Pera: bey everybody -- haha, sure thing, sea weed, and tofu, and . . . don't let me get started

    After I left, Corvi sent me the rest of the chat log, which I am including below.

    Kirkra Caerndow: Well, shall we continue?
    Pila Mulligan: seaweed and tofu sounds really good :)
    Kirkra Caerndow: Yeah it does
    Tarmel Udimo: yeah
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles..yes, lets.
    Tarmel Udimo: I remember reading somewhere that when faced with the void - it is only the body that has the strength to deal with it - reference to what pila was talking about
    Pila Mulligan: the body is certainly the vehicle for people's lives
    Tarmel Udimo: and is the closet expereince we have to life without mind
    Pila Mulligan: I've met only half a dozen people aged 60-70 in SL, like myself, and at some point we usually share stories of mundane aches and pains
    Pila Mulligan: the best solution I've found, if there is no disease or injury, is breathing and related exercises
    Tarmel Udimo: :-)
    Pila Mulligan: and I suspect the same is true for younger people's aches
    Pila Mulligan: mental, emotional and physical
    Kirkra Caerndow: Mostly mental and emotional for the younger ones
    Pila Mulligan: but a pretty good solution :)
    Kirkra Caerndow: Well does anyone have any aches? Mental and emotional aches are very healthy to discuss
    Kirkra Caerndow: Physical might be too, but I'm not a very competent e-doctor
    Tarmel Udimo: I think it goes deeper than that
    Tarmel Udimo: I agree with you Pila and the breathing and moiving can take us to deeper understanding of what is in fact hurting
    Tarmel Udimo: the body holds memory
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Tarmel Udimo: we spend a lot of time trying to heal the mind when we need to also be healing the body
    Susi Alcott: it also tells by pains...
    Tarmel Udimo: yes i think its a wonderful key
    Pila Mulligan: and then we have those moments of bliss, when things just feel really good
    Susi Alcott: as well it tells by different kind of illnesses....
    Tarmel Udimo: yes and feeling good is great
    Susi Alcott: sure only in case one allowes that to happen
    Susi Alcott: meaning that 'telling'
    Pila Mulligan: and we compare them and want to understand why -- why this and that?
    Tarmel Udimo: yes? and?
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: and good luck :)
    Pila Mulligan: not to be trite
    Tarmel Udimo: its kind of fun to try
    Pila Mulligan: for me the connection is often breath related
    Tarmel Udimo: susi are you working with the "telling"
    Tarmel Udimo: tarmel nods
    Susi Alcott: in case I understand your question the right way...I am...because I'm a healer
    Tarmel Udimo: yes
    Tarmel Udimo: lovely
    Susi Alcott: ?
    Tarmel Udimo: lovely to be a healer
    Kirkra Caerndow: What kind of healer are you?
    Tarmel Udimo: and thought you might expand on how the body tells us
    Susi Alcott: you name it
    Susi Alcott: the most telling of pain is that 'stop the doing which makes this pain'
    Tarmel Udimo: can u say more
    Kirkra Caerndow: I find it strange how common the idea of pain being a bad thing is
    Susi Alcott: that's one example how human body 'tells' that there's something wrong in mind
    Kirkra Caerndow: Exactly
    Susi Alcott: just that most of the people prefere eat pain killers than listnes to the body
    Kirkra Caerndow: pain killers and mood alterers
    Susi Alcott: which are even worse
    Pila Mulligan: instead of curing the problem
    Susi Alcott: yes
    Kirkra Caerndow: Of course, a drink coffee in the morning and gin at night so I'm not one to talk, but the idea is to keep a clean conscience and try not escape
    Susi Alcott: dont know so much of the gin, but the coffee sounds more than good
    Tarmel Udimo: I usally like a nice glass of red myself :-)
    Susi Alcott: that creates motions; so that's good too
    Susi Alcott: I dont myself use any kind of, but I understand that they r healthy to most of the people
    Susi Alcott: but...you said something about 'lovely to be a healer'...well...anybody can be...
    Susi Alcott: as you connected the issue; Love
    Tarmel Udimo: true and in fact I often try to heal myslef before I see someone else
    Tarmel Udimo: but not all of us spend our days healing...
    Susi Alcott: understand
    Susi Alcott: well; I do
    Pila Mulligan: perhaps in a sense we do, self-healing :)
    Susi Alcott: ah; to that there's many good ways
    Tarmel Udimo: yes which is why I think its lovely - susi
    Susi Alcott: for example to have gin or red wine :)
    Pila Mulligan: someone mentioned reservatrol (sp? here recently, a healthly component of wine
    Susi Alcott: than I say thank you
    Tarmel Udimo: :-)
    Tarmel Udimo: reservatrol?
    Pila Mulligan: it has a chemcial name, but that is a popular name I believe
    Pila Mulligan: an isolated component of wine
    Susi Alcott: to eat chocolate is also very healthy 'in my book', even there's much speeches that sugar is bad
    Pila Mulligan: mis-spelled I suspect
    Pila Mulligan: I love choclate
    Kirkra Caerndow: The point is, though, using other things to influence yourself and your feelings
    Tarmel Udimo: hummm chocolate
    Susi Alcott: hoping you to let yourself to eat it well then
    Pila Mulligan: thanks doc :) encouragement is welcome
    Tarmel Udimo: as long as you are aware kirka
    Susi Alcott: well Pila; you said something about aches
    Tarmel Udimo: that you are using things to stimulate you
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Susi Alcott: you'de like to tell if you have ?
    Pila Mulligan: I call mine rigor mortis --just muscles that don't move as freely as they once did
    Kirkra Caerndow: Well that's kind of morbid!
    Susi Alcott: do you know the reason to that ?
    Pila Mulligan: not really, at least not intentionally -- I do it jokingly because that is where they will wind up
    Pila Mulligan: as to mobidity
    Kirkra Caerndow: All of us will wind up that way
    Pila Mulligan: as to muscles, I think they just get tired
    Kirkra Caerndow: Except maybe me because I'm awesome like tat
    Pila Mulligan: isn't there a chemical that allows our muscles to loosen and relax?
    Kirkra Caerndow: Of course, there are many chemicals
    Susi Alcott: yes there is
    Pila Mulligan: I thnk older people may have less of that chemcial
    Susi Alcott: I wish we can meet soon again Pila
    Pila Mulligan: thnak you Susi -- and yet it seems yoga or breathing exercises can do wonders with those aches
    Susi Alcott: I need to go , but ...want to say this...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I have to go...would someone send me any more that is said?
    Susi Alcott: you r very right with that too
    Pila Mulligan: yes Corvi
    Claire Beltran: I think I must go, too... I'm sorry I was so silent.
    Pila Mulligan: bye to those leaving
    Tarmel Udimo: bye
    Claire Beltran: Bye! ^-^/
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Thank you, Pila.
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Pila Mulligan: aloha
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Aloha.
    Susi Alcott: wishing good time to all
    Susi Alcott: was nice to talk
    Pila Mulligan: yes it has been
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