2008.12.10 13:00 - Parallel universes and real reality

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    The guardian for this session was Quilty Bookmite. The comments are his.

    As I sat waiting for the appointed hour, Gary Landfall, a "newborn", arrived and wondered what was going on.


    Gary Landfall: hi nice nd peaceful here
    Quilty Bookmite: Indeed. :-)
    Gary Landfall: gr8 4 meditation
    Quilty Bookmite: I am going to host a chat here at 1 p.m. You are welcome to join or just listen.
    Quilty Bookmite: Do you meditate Gary?
    Gary Landfall: yeah tnx i might just stick around, i do meditate ocasionally when i'm stressed
    Pila arrives followed by a number of other regulars.
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Pila
    Pila Mulligan: greetings Quilty
    Quilty Bookmite: Just to let you know, the chats here are recorded and put on an online Wiki. If you don't want your words to be recorded online please let me know.
    Wol Euler: hello quilty, hello pila.
    Pila Mulligan: hi everyone
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Wol, Gaya, Scathac.
    Wol Euler: P is an old hand, no need to give him the intro :)
    Wol Euler: hello scathach
    Quilty Bookmite: I was talking to Gary. :-)
    Gary Landfall: hi all
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Wol, Quilty, Pila
    Wol Euler: oh, I do apologise! you hadn't rezzed for me at all :(
    Wol Euler sticks her foot deeply into her mouth and starts chewing.
    Quilty Bookmite: Maybe more seats would be more welcoming...
    I turn the fountain off.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hullo everyone ^^
    Wol Euler: oh, happy birthday Gary! welcome to second life.
    Gary Landfall: cheers tnx
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Quilty Bookmite: Gary, hopefully you now have a notecard to tell you what PaB is all about. This is one of 4 daily chats we have,
    Gary Landfall: yes i do
    Gary Landfall: wat do u discuss
    Quilty Bookmite: You seem very adept for your first day. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Quilty Bookmite: We discuss the nature of reality and how we perceive it.
    Wol Euler misread that as "how we prevent it"
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Quilty Bookmite: We also discuss other things as the mood takes us. not always sensible things. :-)
    Gary Landfall: well i studied psychology 4 a few years, so it may stand me in good stead
    Quilty Bookmite: Can you prevent reality. :-)
    Wol Euler: ah!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps yes Gary ^^
    Quilty Bookmite: It will give you a useful perspective on what we do. :-)
    Wol Euler: well, given that there is no reality at all, just perception, the answer is clearly "yes" :)
    Wol Euler <- gently mocking
    Gary Landfall: it seems very contemplative here
    Wol Euler: we do our best :)
    Two discussions ensue which seem to be related - on parallel universes and whether or not reality is "real".
    Quilty Bookmite: Can you prevent something that doesn't exist?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Give us an example please Wol
    Wol Euler: well, this is a commonly expressed belief that I personally do not hold.
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. It was built to be a peaceful contemplative place.
    Wol Euler: I think that reality is real, and that perception perceives (well or badly) that which really exists.
    Gary Landfall: wats ure own perceptions regarding the existence of parallel universes?
    Quilty Bookmite: As someone with an interest in physics I would have to say I think parallel universes exist, but maybe not in a useful way.
    Quilty Bookmite: Well, in as much as our own universe exists.
    Wol Euler: :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Wol, I think what you say is true and also not true. :-)
    Pila Mulligan: what would be an east defniition of paralel universe for a non-scientist, please?
    Wol Euler: good! :) let's discuss.
    Pila Mulligan: easy*
    Wol Euler: (take Pila first ..)
    Pila Mulligan: a typo-burdened non-scientist :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Quilty Bookmite: Difficult to explain parallel universes, especially since I don't completely understand them myself.
    Quilty Bookmite: Basically, it is thought that any possible future actually happens for each particle.
    Quilty Bookmite: Since they all happen, each creates it's own universe. However, what we see is something like an average of all of them.
    Wol Euler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation
    Gary Landfall: well i believe that they exist but i would have tbut does what happen in this life have a bearing in what goes on in a parallel universe?
    Quilty Bookmite: I'm sure Pema could explain much better.
    Wol Euler chuckles.
    Gaya Ethaniel: This is a good documentary on it... http://jp.youtube.com/results?search_query=Parallel+Universes%2C+Parallel+Lives&search_type=
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Neela.
    Wol Euler: hello again neela
    Quilty Bookmite: We are having a little light discussion on quantum physics. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Neela ^^
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Neela
    Neela Blaisdale: Hi Quilty,Wol,Gaya
    Gary Landfall: hi neela
    Wol Euler: the half-blind leading the blind perhaps
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's a programme about quantum physicist Hugh Everett III, told by his rock star son, Mark Oliver Everett
    Neela Blaisdale: Nice to meet you Scat Pila and Gary
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, I've seen that:)
    Wol Euler makes a note.
    Quilty Bookmite: Thanks Gaya.
    Gaya Ethaniel: It made a bit of sense even to me ^^ yw
    Pila Mulligan: the closest can get to the idea would be that we have a dream awareness and a waking awarenss that occupy apparently sepate realms (leading up to the talk at 2 pm perhaps)
    Quilty Bookmite: And thanks Wol for the Wikipedia link.
    Wol Euler: yw
    Gary Landfall: i suppose deja vu may be in so way connected to a parallel perspective
    Wol Euler: or the appearance of angels and ghosts ...
    Quilty Bookmite: Or maybe deja vu is a hint that time isn;t as linear as we think it is.
    Wol Euler: or maybe that the brain is more complex (or less rigorous) than we think
    Gary Landfall: but y do some ppl experience dem while others dont?
    Gary Landfall: is it a lack of open mindedness perhaps?
    Scathach Rhiadra: thay may just call it something else
    Pila Mulligan: probably
    Quilty Bookmite: Hard to say really.
    Quilty Bookmite: If there are parallel universes, are they also real or not real?
    Neela Blaisdale: Probably not less real than this one
    Quilty Bookmite: I think the concept of parallel universes is a simlification of the way the universe is that fits our human perception.
    Pila Mulligan: well, the world of sea critters is certainly real to them, and yet largely unfamiliar to humans
    Quilty Bookmite: True.
    Quilty Bookmite: Everyone is either deep in thought or possibly bored. :-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Pila Mulligan: I agree Quilty, we explain things with more verbage than they need sometimes
    Pila Mulligan: with regard to fitting ideas to perception
    Gaya Ethaniel: afk for a bit, apologies
    Quilty Bookmite: Well, physicists are showing that the reality we perceive is actually far more complex than we can imagine. It begs the question, if it isn't real, why is it so comlicated?
    Quilty Bookmite: NP.
    Pila Mulligan: and what a big differencethere is between the consciousness of humans and the conditions we live in
    Quilty Bookmite: Can you elaborate on that Pila?
    Gary Landfall: well the mind is so complex i fear we will never fully comprehend all its perceptions and workings
    Pila Mulligan: well, for zillions of years it seems we have generally learned about spirituality, compassion, and we have science that does miracles, yet people live in hunger and oppression in such large numbers
    Wol Euler nods. It isn't lack of information that causes social and financial inequality.
    Pila Mulligan: aye
    Quilty Bookmite: True. Advances in technology don't seem to be such great advances in a lot of ways.
    Pila Mulligan: and consciousnes to
    Pila Mulligan: too*
    Gaya Ethaniel: [mm sorry will be back for Maxine's talk later]
    Wol Euler: bye gaya, hope you are OK
    Pila Mulligan: we humansare so conscious it can be startling
    Pila Mulligan: but we humans are not well organized
    Wol Euler: Just saw this on Postsecret: "I know that there are people working every day to better understand the universe we live in. I hope they never fully do. It's much more comforting as a mystery."
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Neela Blaisdale: :) some truth to that
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Pila Mulligan: and it seems bound to remain mysterious in many ways, Wol
    Quilty Bookmite: Well, I think we are a long way from it yet. :-)
    Neela Blaisdale: Sorry RL intrudes, must go. Nice to see you all
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye Neela.
    Wol Euler: bye neela, take are
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Neela
    Wol Euler: *care even
    Pila Mulligan: bye
    Quilty Bookmite: Dropping like flies. Maybe I should change the subject. :-)
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Wol Euler: or your aftershave! boom boom.
    Gary Landfall: i must be off nice meeting u all, talk to u soon
    Wol Euler: ah the old jokes are the best.
    Pila Mulligan: bye Gary
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye Gary.
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Gary
    Wol Euler: bye gary, enjoy your SL
    Quilty Bookmite: The old jokes are the oldest.
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: Hope to see you again some time.
    Pila Mulligan: d*
    Pila Mulligan: the subject of dreams and fantasys, at 2 pm, has really capture my intrest
    Quilty Bookmite: Maybe we should go back to Wol's point about reality being really real. :-)
    Wol Euler: indeed, I am very curious to hear what Maxine has to say.
    Wol Euler: okay :)
    Pila Mulligan: is a dream real?
    Wol Euler: well, if reality is only real because we perceive it, then I would have to conclude "yes, dreams are real"
    Quilty Bookmite: Ah. I didn't know about the 2 p.m. discussion. :-)
    It seems we are preempting Maxines 2 p.m. discussion on dreams.
    Wol Euler: in the kira cafe
    Pila Mulligan: at Kira's Cafe, Quilty
    Wol Euler: "upstairs"
    Quilty Bookmite: After my bedtime I'm afraid. :-)
    Pila Mulligan: maybe you can tune in from dream time
    Wol Euler: send your parallel self along to hear it.
    Quilty Bookmite: That would be great. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: An interface between SL and DL (Dream Life).
    Pila Mulligan: to me, dreams seem to have degrees of reality just like waking life
    Pila Mulligan: lucidity maybe the term used by many
    Quilty Bookmite: Do they have a lower degree of reality than waking life?
    Pila Mulligan: sometimes for sure
    Wol Euler: dreams where you find a working solution to a RL problem _must _ be real in some ways.
    Quilty Bookmite: But sometimes not? Sometimes dreams are as real as waking life?
    Pila Mulligan: sometimes they are little more than fantasy or imagining
    Pila Mulligan: on a qualitative scale, some dreams are more real than some waking moments
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Pila Mulligan: giving each state a spectrum of quality
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes, we sometimes drift off while awake. I have driven to work some days and can't remember any details of the journey. :-)
    Wol Euler: scathach, what do you think?
    Wol Euler: .
    Pila Mulligan: hi Solo
    Wol Euler: hello solo!
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Solo.
    Wol Euler: phone, brb
    Solobill Laville: Hi, folks!
    Pila Mulligan: discussin dreams and reality
    Pila Mulligan: warm pu for the 2 pm discussion :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Thanks Pila. :-)
    Pila Mulligan: up*
    Solobill Laville nods
    Scathach Rhiadra: I can remember dreaming of doing some trivial things and then thinking I had done them whilst awake
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: like paying a bill once:)
    Solobill Laville: Ooh, that one could be dangerous ;)
    Pila Mulligan: '... but your honor, I already paid that bill'
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Solobill Laville: hehe. exactly
    Quilty Bookmite: So dreams can seem more real than reality. Maybe it doesn't make sense to ask if they really are because maybe reality is just our own perception anyway.
    Pila Mulligan: there is a qualitative element to reality, in my opinon
    Pila Mulligan: a scale or spectrum
    Quilty Bookmite: But is reality personal or is this qualitative element shared?
    Pila Mulligan: :) nice question
    Pila Mulligan: I think it is shared in places
    Quilty Bookmite: Would be nicer if I had an answer. :-)
    Pila Mulligan: and not shared elsewhere
    Pila Mulligan: like weather
    Solobill Laville: When it is shared we feel closeness with others
    Quilty Bookmite: So if something seems dreamlike or very real, it could be that others around you are perceiving it in the same way?
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pila Mulligan: or not, also
    Quilty Bookmite: I like that idea. It also hints that we are all connected in some way.
    Pila Mulligan: the idea of a collective subconsious or colective unscnsious seems appropriate to me
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes.
    Pila Mulligan: and then, like qunatuum entanglement, there are closer sharing of the same idea
    Quilty Bookmite: And maybe part of something bigger. :-)
    Pila Mulligan: earth to andromeda, come in please :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Someone who claims to be a non-scientist uses a phrase like quantum entanglement. :-)
    Pila Mulligan: that idea really interested me, and even with a lack of science it resonated :)
    Pila Mulligan: it is so relective of many traditional beliefs
    Quilty Bookmite: It's not a criticism. :-)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Quilty Bookmite: It also hints that things are not so clear cut. That what we perceive as me or you or the computer are not really separate things.
    Pila Mulligan: again using the meataphor of weather, I think we share many things and yet we also have a unique personal expereince
    Pila Mulligan: if the home team wins the crowd is happy, together, for a rough example
    Pila Mulligan: but the energy shared is shared with the losing team as well
    Pila Mulligan: and the energy, like the weather is ubiquitous
    Quilty Bookmite: I meant also ona physical level. There is no boundary that defines who you are or what the table in front of you is.
    Pila Mulligan: I believe there is a physical boundary, but thereis also energy that is shared among them
    Quilty Bookmite: We create artificial boundaries in our head but certainly at a quantum level they don't really exisst.
    Wol Euler: back, and reading
    Pila Mulligan: there I am unable to venture :)
    Quilty Bookmite: We exchange atoms, molecules and subatomic particles with things around us. What of these is us?
    Quilty Bookmite: We are not the atoms we were born with.
    Pila Mulligan: the composite of expereince and perceived boundaries is us, perhaps
    Quilty Bookmite: Where does that exist?
    Pila Mulligan: in our Selves :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Our physical selves?
    Pila Mulligan: the Akashic Record of our soul
    Wol Euler raises an eybrow
    Pila Mulligan: Pila is enjoying this :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Good. Me too. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: I don't know what an akashic record is though.
    Solobill Laville thinks he has that old LP; Beatles, 1966 ;)
    Pila Mulligan: the Akashic Record is a Hindu odea relating to the sum of all expreice as recoded in Eternity
    Wol Euler grins and nods
    Quilty Bookmite: LOL!
    Pila Mulligan: kind of like Santa Claus's ledger
    Quilty Bookmite: So it's not in us, it's in the universe?
    Pila Mulligan: we are the universe, in the sense of Atman
    Pila Mulligan: anothe rHindu term
    Pila Mulligan: but let's not drift too far into India :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: what about the buddhist idea of the emptiness of inherent reality
    Wol Euler: indeed.
    Quilty Bookmite: Maybe another time when we have more time. :-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: oops, sorry:)
    Pila Mulligan: emptiness is an excellent description of awareness encahnced by meditation, Scathach
    Quilty Bookmite: Buddhists also don't believe in a soul. :-)
    Pila Mulligan: emtipness is a qaulitativ emeasure of awareness
    Solobill Laville ponders that definition a bit
    Solobill Laville: I think I'd put "emptiness" as an awareness of quality...tentatively
    Quilty Bookmite: Is that a definition of emptiness or a statement about it?
    Pila Mulligan: mine was a statement, and i agree with Solobill
    Solobill Laville: Hi, vikernes
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi vikernes. Have you been to these chats before?
    vikernes Radikal: are you a secte?
    Wol Euler: nope :)
    vikernes Radikal: hi
    Pila Mulligan: not really
    Wol Euler: happy birthday vikernes, welcome to second life!
    vikernes Radikal: what are you doing?
    Quilty Bookmite: Just a group who meet and talk. :-)
    vikernes Radikal: and more?
    Quilty Bookmite: We are discussing reality.
    Pila Mulligan: or meet and type :)
    vikernes Radikal: you speak about what?
    Quilty Bookmite: Our chats happen 4 times a day and are recorded on an internet blog. Do you mind if your words are put on the internet?
    Wol Euler: (has anyone given Vik hte notecard yet?)
    Pila Mulligan: close to time to be leaving, for me
    vikernes Radikal: sorry,i'm french and i don't really all anderstand
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes, I have
    Quilty Bookmite: Your English is pretty good then. :-)
    Wol Euler: better than my french!
    vikernes Radikal: thank you
    Wol Euler: actually, it's time for Maxine's talk. I must leave.
    Pila Mulligan: me too, bye folks :)
    vikernes Radikal: good bye
    Quilty Bookmite: Ah. Sorry vikernes. We must pack up.
    Scathach Rhiadra: see you later Pila
    Wol Euler: you picked a bad moment to come by, vikernes :)
    Wol Euler: our sessions are at 1 am, 7 am 1 pm 7 pm (in SL time)
    Wol Euler: every day
    Quilty Bookmite: We meet here 1 a.m., 7 a.m., 1 p.m. and 7 p.m. daily if you would like to come to another chat.
    Quilty Bookmite: Thanks Wol. :-)
    Wol Euler: snap :)
    vikernes Radikal: where do youlive?
    Wol Euler: bye for now, my dears!
    Quilty Bookmite: I'm in the UK.
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye Wol.
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Wol
    Female Walk ZHAO: Could not find animation 'sit_feet up'.
    Quilty Bookmite: We are from all over though.
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye Scathach
    Scathach Rhiadra: I must go too, namasté
    Quilty Bookmite: Namaste
    vikernes Radikal: ok i'm going to sleep
    vikernes Radikal: see you soon
    Quilty Bookmite: Goodnight vikernes
    vikernes Radikal: thank you
    Quilty Bookmite: I must go to bed too.
    vikernes Radikal: ok*
    vikernes Radikal: good bye
    vikernes Radikal: see you soon
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye.
    Quilty Bookmite: And bye Solo.
    Solobill Laville: Meeting adjurned
    Solobill Laville: bye!
    Quilty Bookmite: Yep :-)

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