2009.11.16 19:00 - The looseness of play

Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database, and Eliza filled in missing text...

 Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fox! :) Hi Steve!
stevenaia Michinaga: Hi Eliza
Fox Monacular: Hi Eliza
stevenaia Michinaga: my dinner consisted of yummy desserts at a meeting and an apple just recently
Fox Monacular: the reason I was up was that I was reading Mahabharata:)
Fox Monacular: nice
Eliza Madrigal: haha, no dinner with dinner, Steve?
stevenaia Michinaga: can;t wait to see what that does to my sleep patterns
Fox Monacular: sweet dreams?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: What were you reading specifically, Fox?
stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahabharata
stevenaia Michinaga: you read sanscipt?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bert :)
Fox Monacular: Hi Bert
Fox Monacular: no no no sanscrit:)
Bertrum Quan: Hi everyone.
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Bert
Fox Monacular: http://www.amazon.com/Mahabharata-Modern-Rendering-Vol/dp/0595401880/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258427394&sr=8-12
Fox Monacular: that's the one I'm reading
stevenaia Michinaga: a not so light read, it would appear
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, seems worthwhile though
Fox Monacular: this one is actually as light as lord of the rings really
Fox Monacular: the same author did a modern retelling of Ramayana, and it was really amazing
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, will save to desktop then :)
Fox Monacular: Hello Calvino
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Calvino
Calvino Rabeni: good eve!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bertrum Quan: Hi Calvino
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Eliza Madrigal: So anyone have a PaB topic? :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Calvino
stevenaia Michinaga: reading Mahabharata wiki
Eliza Madrigal: :))

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Something basic...

Calvino Rabeni: How about something basic?
Eliza Madrigal: Basic sounds good. What do you have in mind?
Calvino Rabeni: The "play" theme. In contrast to the more dominant "work" idea.
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, nice :)
Fox Monacular: I was thinking when reading Mahabharata that essentially the story is as understandable today as ever...
it's really not so difficult to relate to the characters as soon as you wrap your mind about some cultural things
Eliza Madrigal: What comes to mind when you think 'play as being'? That's changed for me a few times
Fox Monacular: oh, sorry, lag
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, yes apologies Fox...didn't realize you were sharing...steps off toes
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Calvino Rabeni: What comes to mind is the often "serious" tone to spiritual practices, like connected to intention, like a lot rides on it, etc.
Fox Monacular: no no, I typed it earlier, and then it got too late:)
stevenaia Michinaga: thanks
Fox Monacular: the seriousness can be quite intimidating sometimes
Calvino Rabeni: I am ok with mahabharata - maybe it can be seen through play.
Eliza Madrigal: One of my favorite pab themes is probably taking things 'lightly'...
stevenaia Michinaga: Play for me is where being meets the mind, something that you can only "play " with to help understand it
Fox Monacular: it's definitely very playful:)
stevenaia Michinaga: big B
Eliza Madrigal: :) Oh, like that Steven
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps we're more receptive when in that lightly mode, too
Eliza Madrigal: letting Being play us
Calvino Rabeni: Play as a word also means a kind of looseness within a tight space
Fox Monacular: for me sometimes play is the opposite state from Being
Eliza Madrigal: Hmm, I was reading something about looseness today
Eliza Madrigal: Go on Fox?
Fox Monacular: it is as if Being... with a big B, is a state of non-relational existence, and then play is definitely relational and strives on oppositions
Eliza Madrigal: how interesting... so contrasting on a relative level.. and then Hm...
Calvino Rabeni: Anyone conversant with Tantra?
Fox Monacular: but then, like Steve said, you can also play with Being
Fox Monacular: no, not really
Calvino Rabeni: Oranything you think *might*be about the same phenomena?
Eliza Madrigal: just a little Calvino
Calvino Rabeni: Tell?
Eliza Madrigal: Just inspired by writings, generally :)
Calvino Rabeni: Practices?
Calvino Rabeni: I meant, experiences. Not formal, necessarily.
Eliza Madrigal: No not really Calvino... but I do like the general idea of getting to the energy level of things perhaps
Fox Monacular: you mean experiences of energy flows?
Fox Monacular: like chanting mantras?
Eliza Madrigal: Sure, yes that's what I think of
Fox Monacular: or Tai Chi
Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps energy flow. Dunno about mantras.
Calvino Rabeni: Tai chi, sure
Eliza Madrigal: Is that something you practice Calvino?
stevenaia Michinaga: an begining Tai Chi
Calvino Rabeni: I have, not recently. But body awareness of "energy" is a common theme in that and other esoteric practices.
Eliza Madrigal nods... integration

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Eliza Madrigal: Does energy work/tai chi relate to your idea of 'looseness' of play, Calvino?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes it does.
Calvino Rabeni: (thinking)
Eliza Madrigal: I think sometimes we practice and discuss...and then it must play out in our physical lives in various ways...

Calvino Rabeni: I brought up Tantra but didn't want to go on about it if some of you are more informed than I.
Calvino Rabeni: But what little I've read shows a fine description of the internal experience of movement arising from a void state
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Calvino Rabeni: And I'd venture that is what "energy" refers to.
Calvino Rabeni: How do you detect "energy" as an experience?
Eliza Madrigal: And do you relate this to what you've seen of PlayasBeing so far?
Eliza Madrigal: (Am I asking too many questions?) Sorry
Fox Monacular: maybe if we consider that movement, these energies in a more playful way it may help to not identify with then and be more detached?
Calvino Rabeni: To me it is relevant in that, there's a sponaneous arising of movement, which seems like the nature of "play"
Eliza Madrigal nods...yes that seems so... like not labeling just seeing what arises... how things come into play...
Calvino Rabeni: WIth connotations of freedom.
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
stevenaia Michinaga: play is a very creative state of exploration
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bertrum Quan: Play as creativity/imagunation/inspiration: "Players and the painted stage took all my love. And not those things they were emblems of."
Yeats' "The Circus Animals' Desertion" just popped into my head...
Calvino Rabeni: No doubt you've heard the "state of flow" idea. So what comes before the flow?
Calvino Rabeni: (rhetorically)
stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
Eliza Madrigal: Yes nice question to consider... loosening perhaps...
Calvino Rabeni: Steve, I feel the creativity and exploration actually gets started somewhere prior
Eliza Madrigal: And I think thats pretty impressive Bert, to have Yeats on speed dial ;-)
stevenaia Michinaga: pior to what?
stevenaia Michinaga: prior
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Calvino Rabeni: Prior to where there is continuing and flowing and following something (meaning exploration)
Eliza Madrigal: Somewhere prior...the void you mentioned?
Calvino Rabeni: So,analogy of a flowing creek. The water plays over the stones, without care or control. But where did it come from before that?
Calvino Rabeni: Yeah I guess, void?
stevenaia Michinaga: I see play as the starting point, before play is not void, but letting go creating the void the play in
Eliza Madrigal: MMM
Eliza Madrigal: That's a really neat description, Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: you get stuck, so you Play your way out of it
Eliza Madrigal: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: at least I do
stevenaia Michinaga: what is Being, I don;t know, let's play
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Eliza Madrigal: So interesting... thinking about the terms that have come up in this session so far... loosening, playing out, out of stuck, flowing, freedom, love...
Eliza Madrigal: hah, yes :) Why Not.. no goal
stevenaia Michinaga: missed the "love" context
Calvino Rabeni: I have mixed feelings about esoterica - how does it go in this group?
Fox Monacular: it is a lot like with children... things they don't quite understand they play out first
Calvino Rabeni: Discovery through embodiment
Fox Monacular: yes:)
Eliza Madrigal: :)

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Eliza Madrigal: Bert's Yeats quote, Steve... picked up love in there ...and isn't that what drives discovery too? :)
stevenaia Michinaga: thx
Eliza Madrigal: Calvino, PlayasBeing is made up of people from all sorts of backgrounds of practice/no practice, etc
Calvino Rabeni: It's good to not get technical
Eliza Madrigal: accepting of one another's interests, but sharing in a kind of space between :)
Eliza Madrigal: that playful space...dreamy space sometimes, especially when Fox is around
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Fox Monacular: :)
Calvino Rabeni: ! :)
Fox Monacular: sorry i'm slow to respond again... BOB again
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Maybe we got too serious talking about play
Eliza Madrigal: heh
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Calvino Rabeni: I think Pila M. would have something interesting on this
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, Pila always has something interesting :)
Calvino Rabeni: He put a lot into that article on I Ching.
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, you read that?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Eliza Madrigal: Yes it was beautifully put together
Eliza Madrigal: and so inspiring
stevenaia Michinaga: is there a link?
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, Steve..let me get it
stevenaia Michinaga: thx
Eliza Madrigal: http://ways-of-knowing.wik.is/6Writings%2f%2fEssays/What_is_Natural%3f__(a_Chinese_version)
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, a link, but I was hoping we could hear it from him, since I have a feeling that's a special interest of his.
Eliza Madrigal: He put this together for the Ways of Knowing workshop
Fox Monacular: perhaps I Ching reflects the fundamental playfulness of reality)
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
stevenaia Michinaga: hmmm, link is empty
Eliza Madrigal: Hm? Let me check again... came up for me...
Paradise Tennant is Online
stevenaia Michinaga: got it
Fox Monacular: I've been doing a lot of I Ching since I talked with Pila
Eliza Madrigal: Really?
Fox Monacular: yes:)
Calvino Rabeni: Did he give you an inside scoop?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I remember i Ching was popular in high school
Fox Monacular: a little:)
Eliza Madrigal: Until Pila it really wasn't on my radar...
Fox Monacular: yes, exactly, me too i got into it in high school
Eliza Madrigal: but he is inspiring
Fox Monacular: but i was also into spiritism and such then
Eliza Madrigal: trying things on?
Fox Monacular: yes:)
Eliza Madrigal: Playful of you!
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Paradise
Fox Monacular: Russia has a particular blend of religion and occult stuff
Fox Monacular: Hi Paradise
Eliza Madrigal: Just want to paste here Pila's last comment on the page, in case anyone resisted following the link :
"the net sum being that circulation of light and quiet lead to a spontaneous unity arising from stillness. "
Eliza Madrigal: Hi paradise :)
Eliza Madrigal: Isn't Russia very steeped in tradition Fox?

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Fox Monacular: well yes and no... soviet union worked hard to destroy all tradition...
Paradise Tennant: :) great comment from Pila ! just lovely !
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Fox Monacular: there are psychics in Russia that are simultaneoulsy very religious
Calvino Rabeni: You live there, Fox?
Fox Monacular: and one of the most popular TV reality shows is 'psychic challenge' where psychics compete going all sorts of paranormal tasks
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes that's what I imagined..that when things are supressed there can develop more attachment, in a way
Eliza Madrigal: Oh goodness
Fox Monacular: no, I live in Montreal now, but I was born and grew up in Moscow
Fox Monacular: psychics and witches and 'traditional
Fox Monacular: healers are everywhere
Fox Monacular: and at the same time people are very strict Orthodox
Fox Monacular: it is very particular
Eliza Madrigal: Sounds interestsing actually
Fox Monacular: yes, it is
Fox Monacular: russian Orthodox church is arguably among the strictest
Fox Monacular: and yet so many pagan rites and superstitions survive
Fox Monacular: actually Russians are extremely supersticious in everyday life
Fox Monacular: we religiously do stuff like spit over the left shoulder, knock on the wood, look in the mirror if forgot keys....
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, was just asking that :)
Fox Monacular: only when I started living with my canadian boyfriend I realized how many things like that I do on everyday basis!
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Eliza Madrigal: Does it amuse him?
Fox Monacular: for instance, you can never say happy birthday before it actually happens
Fox Monacular: so celebrating birthdays in advance is a big no-no for ut
Fox Monacular: *us
Fox Monacular: yes, he finds it really funny
Fox Monacular: or baby showers....
Eliza Madrigal: :) What is the thinking behind the birthday greeting?
Fox Monacular: not to jinx it
Eliza Madrigal: Ah.. wow, worriers
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Fox Monacular: yes, definitely!
Fox Monacular: trying not to tempt fate too much
Calvino Rabeni: There is a fatalism to the russian psyche?
Fox Monacular: oh big time, Calvino!
Calvino Rabeni: So that is why I like them
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Fox Monacular: :) crime and punishment
Fox Monacular: is our national anthem, really
Fox Monacular: unofficial
Eliza Madrigal: Oh...but then you have Tolstoy too and his winding writing... appreciating the intricasies of thought and landscape....
Fox Monacular: and anarchy too :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) guess there are treasures that come from oppositions...
Calvino Rabeni: And from bad weather
Eliza Madrigal: hah, yes I imagine
Fox Monacular: well, the weather isn't really that bad
Eliza Madrigal: Brrrr
Fox Monacular: I mean it's not always raining in Moscow, and not everyone is wearing grey overcoats and fur hats
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, darn
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Calvino Rabeni: But you have to stay indoors more than in a warmer climate
Eliza Madrigal: It is very late... I am going to sign off and apologize for being so talkative...get chatty when up too late I think
Fox Monacular: it's great to chat with you Eliza!
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Night everyone. Thank you! Thanks Fox, good to make it to your session!
Fox Monacular: good night ELiza
Eliza Madrigal: Bfn
Fox Monacular: I'll have to go as well