2009.11.21 13:00 - Things in Boxes

The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by SophiaSharon Larnia.

This was a very interesting session with multiple threads being woven at the same time. I arrived, and then Calvino, Eliza, Gaya, Mickorod came directly after, with Wol and Arabella a short while later.

SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Calvino :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharon! :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Calvino :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Gaya :)
Calvino Rabeni: Hello soph and Eliza, how are you?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Gaya :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: good :) Hi Mickorod
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Calvino, Eliza and SophiaSharon :)
Eliza Madrigal is quite well, thanks... though feeling a little sugar surge from a cinnamon roll...
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick! )
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: Hiya everyone
Mickorod Renard: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: as with my coffee Eliza
Mickorod Renard: Stims back tommorow?
Eliza Madrigal: Mick, Stim was here Thurs...but we'll meet tomorrow Gaya?
Mickorod Renard: hope to make it
Eliza Madrigal: Yes hope you do too.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: ty..life's been a bit busy lately
Eliza Madrigal: I hope that's a positive Mick. You've been moving, right?
SophiaSharon Larnia: i hope thats good Mick
Mickorod Renard: I must read up the logs
Mickorod Renard: well,,still am in a way
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Im way behind too :)
Mickorod Renard: I moved recently but only temporarily
Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry, yes we will meet tomorrow for our little meeting :)
Mickorod Renard: hopefully a permanent move in the new year
Eliza Madrigal: Ah. I've wanted to sell this house for a while now but am trying to be patient and allow prices to settle, etc
Eliza Madrigal: I even packed up half the house more than a year ago
Mickorod Renard: well I am hoping to sell my french house while the pound sterling is low against the euro
SophiaSharon Larnia: :) Eliza
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Wol
Eliza Madrigal: Made it difficult to find albums this week when I needed
Wol Euler: helo everyone
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, you haven't sold it yet... thought you had :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol! :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Wol :)
Mickorod Renard: I am still in boxes,,seems a shame to unpack for a limited period
Mickorod Renard: hiya Wol
Eliza Madrigal nods... and yet living with packed boxes can feel strange...
Eliza Madrigal: especially if for a long time
SophiaSharon Larnia: << moved two years ago and still has things in boxes
Mickorod Renard: I find it unsettling in the mind to be in this state
Gaya Ethaniel: I can imagine ...
Eliza Madrigal: Mick, yes I think so too... moving and not moving, etc :)
Mickorod Renard: I am looking forward to a more planned existence
Mickorod Renard: my own garden to plant etc
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, nice :)
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Mickorod Renard: but this is a funny battle in the head,,this always wishing for a future outcome
Mickorod Renard: it goes against what we ewant to learn here
Mickorod Renard: about how now is important
Eliza Madrigal: Well, maybe the feeling of wanting can be opened up :)
Mickorod Renard: yes?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Eliza Madrigal: or wanting to plan and settle
Gaya Ethaniel: A bit of balance I guess ... not militarily present :P
Eliza Madrigal: *of
Calvino Rabeni: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, and how little we use of what we own (the stuff in boxes)
Mickorod Renard: true
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Zen

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: but I am missing the things I like
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen
Mickorod Renard: Hi Zen
Zen Arado: Hi all :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh yes, there is that, Mick :)
Mickorod Renard: in some respect whats in the boxes is me
Mickorod Renard: all my toys
SophiaSharon Larnia: interesting way to see that
SophiaSharon Larnia: its true
Eliza Madrigal: Re opening up, it seems we can work with the energy of that feeling of restlessness or missing... not run from it
Wol Euler: hello zen
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Zen :)
Mickorod Renard: I dumped 4 truck loads of stuff before moving back to the uk
Eliza Madrigal: wow, did that feel great?
Eliza Madrigal looks around her house and thinks it would :)
Mickorod Renard: a bit heartbreaking
Mickorod Renard: but it was a big place,,and now I need small
Eliza Madrigal: Maybe less to tend to in the way of house, and more freedom otherwise then...
Mickorod Renard: yes exactly
Mickorod Renard: I want to focus more on less
Eliza Madrigal nods. That's what I have in mind too. Kids get older, seems silly to spend so much time nesting :)
Mickorod Renard: I am destined to be busy,,but would like to finnish some things
Mickorod Renard: and find time to absorb what is around me
Eliza Madrigal thinks finishing is a romantic notion someone came up with as a joke
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Mickorod Renard: like a prolonged 90 seconds
Wol Euler: :)
Zen Arado: everyone seems so busy nowadays
SophiaSharon Larnia: how funny i was thinking just like that Eliza :P
Mickorod Renard: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: :)))
Zen Arado: I was so busy when I was working and now I wonder what it was all about
Zen Arado: thought it was so important
Eliza Madrigal: There are seasons when it is, I think...
Mickorod Renard: good observation Zen
Zen Arado: we are conditioned to be achieving things
Gaya Ethaniel: heh :)
Eliza Madrigal: but maybe we get hooked in the pace and feeling of adrenaline
Mickorod Renard: I took time out of work,,several years,,and wondered how I had time to work in the first place
Eliza Madrigal: yes wow...time is funny
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Mickorod Renard: it is
Mickorod Renard: now I am back working I feel I have just as much time,,although not much
Mickorod Renard: he he
Mickorod Renard: no,,that doesnt make sense
Eliza Madrigal: I have had little structure over the last year and it has come with a feeling of panic at times
Mickorod Renard: wow,,I felt that too
Zen Arado: there's a book about that
Eliza Madrigal: even though I've been doing meaningful work, there can still be some kind of permission someone gives you... "Okay, you spent __ hrs in this way threfore you may spend __ in that way"
Zen Arado: “The Underachiever’s Manifesto: The Guide to Accomplishing Little and Feeling Great,” by Ray Bennett, M.D.
Mickorod Renard: yes?
Mickorod Renard: I need that
Zen Arado: the first 10 pages are blank I believe :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
Mickorod Renard: even better
Wol Euler: :)
Zen Arado: and it is pretty short
Gaya Ethaniel: 'How to be idle' is a good book too :)
Mickorod Renard: just need time to read it
Eliza Madrigal: yes, that's what we need then, a short blank book.... 90 pages long maybe
Eliza Madrigal: with a shorter book to carry around... 9 pages
SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
Zen Arado: "We’ve been brainwashed over many years to believe that striving for success is essential to our wellbeing…. It’s an endless exhausting litany, thanks to advertising stars and corporate executives busy cashing in our inadequacies for their overpriced sneakers and shiny BMWs."
Eliza Madrigal: And don't forget the holiday season...
Zen Arado: form the book
Mickorod Renard: that is so true Zen
Zen Arado: thats why we need to meditate maybe
Zen Arado: it's a break from that
Eliza Madrigal nods, defnitely
Zen Arado: just being
Gaya Ethaniel: mm ... being successful and being mindful are not mutually exclusive imo ...
Zen Arado: what is success though?
Zen Arado: material success?
Eliza Madrigal: Definitely not Gaya... the 'feeling' of success is another matter
Gaya Ethaniel thinks ...
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ara! :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Ara
Zen Arado: Hi Arabella
arabella Ella: Hiya everyone!
SophiaSharon Larnia: a person can feel they are successful in accomplishing what they set out to do, although it may not be what someone else says is success
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Arabella

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: I felt,,when not working for a period,,that there was some measure for personal success that one needed to use
Gaya Ethaniel: Well just in principle, one can achieve something without being heedless ... perhaps one can achieve things better with mindfulness?
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello arabella :)
Eliza Madrigal: Sharon, true, so maybe it is about learning what causes us individually to feel satisfied and working with that (think I'm working on homework in a way)
arabella Ella: Hiya Gaya!
Mickorod Renard: I think we tend to be drawn into what Zen mentioned,,this false expectation
Mickorod Renard: created to make us productive
arabella Ella: yes ... who creates the benchmarks for satisfaction ... how free are we in creating our own benchmarks anyway?
Zen Arado: consumerist dreams
Mickorod Renard: yea
Zen Arado: we think we need so much
Eliza Madrigal nods... like the anorexic who is crying in the mirror about weight.. picture in the mind is a distortion
Calvino Rabeni: the question is how to reclaim your own dreams from that
arabella Ella: take females over the past 20 - 30 years for example and how general satisfaction principles seem to have changed
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, Calvino, good question... and yes Ara!
Mickorod Renard: a mix of filters and conditioning to be overcome
Zen Arado: good point
arabella Ella: only yesterday i was shocked when i heard someone say on TV of a female ... she works because she needs the cash ...
Zen Arado: but the economy would collapse if we stopped buying so much?
Gaya Ethaniel: Once I am happy, accept me for who I am etc ... from there I can really see what I want to do and how to do it and so on ... more energy to focus on those rather than pushing myself/others about.
Calvino Rabeni: Mick, I thanink that is negative, but I dont mean in the sense of "bad"
Mickorod Renard: my mum was happy to stay at home and cook etc,,and be mother,,dad earnt a mediocre wage but sufficient
Mickorod Renard: which bit Calvino?
Eliza Madrigal: maybe it is a sense of choice and being able to change...
Eliza Madrigal: no one wants to be locked into a role by others
Mickorod Renard: ;)
Calvino Rabeni: About the filters and limits -
arabella Ella: and another discussion on TV was about a young female who chose love over potential fame or fortune
Calvino Rabeni: as in, being defined by those imposed structures
Calvino Rabeni: but withdrawal and unsubscribing is a negative step
Mickorod Renard: yes,,maybe it is open a bit
Eliza Madrigal: but for a time, many things can be enjoyable and worthwhile and satisfying "For now I'm doing ___"
Calvino Rabeni: I think preferebly followed by putting the heart back into it
Calvino Rabeni: and owning it
Mickorod Renard: can we trust a measure that isnt corrupt?
Zen Arado: people used to talk like this in the 60's though and nothing changed
Gaya Ethaniel: But one has responsibilities too that could be seen as imposed roles.
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, Ara, you mean that these things were talked about in a way as to imply women still choose drastically between roles?
Mickorod Renard: I like being busy,,but thats my nature,,some are not so active,,and maybe its there right
SophiaSharon Larnia: thinking about that Calvino, thanks :)
arabella Ella: yes Eliza
Calvino Rabeni: wow, lots of threads here
Eliza Madrigal nods... one of the most inspiring things I read in the last year, was maria shriver's speech about her mother....
arabella Ella: yes?
Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry I talk too much >.<
Eliza Madrigal: that she 'showed up in her own life" and "didn't choose" in the limited ways people told her she 'should'
Mickorod Renard: much heart is bought by monetary gain
arabella Ella: amazing Eliza i will have to look that up :)
Mickorod Renard: I liike my work,,but sometimes feel under rewarded
Zen Arado: "You must always work not just within, but below your means. If you can handle three elements, handle only two. If you can handle ten, then handle only five. In that way, the ones you do handle, you handle with more ease, more mastery, and you create a feeling of strength in reserve." quote by Picasso
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes I think teachers are undervalued, for sure
Zen Arado: about multitasking
Eliza Madrigal: http://www.boston.com/news/local/bre...shivers_e.html
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, thanks Zen
arabella Ella: lovely quote Zen and thanks for the link Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: And yes for sure Sharon
Calvino Rabeni: Zen, that is not always the best approach
Mickorod Renard: I think the same as Ara,,on both counts,,ty
arabella Ella: i need that quote for end of the year
Calvino Rabeni: At times, if you think you can do five, then do ten
Calvino Rabeni: because then your ability may stretch to seven
Calvino Rabeni: I'm a little leary of "always" in quites
Calvino Rabeni: qhotes :)
Mickorod Renard: I always try to achieve too much,,and feel down when I dont succeed
Calvino Rabeni: quites
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Calvino Rabeni: quotes
Eliza Madrigal: yes it is often a matter of proportion
Mickorod Renard: maybe I need to re evaluate
Gaya Ethaniel: Or make into smaller steps? :)
Mickorod Renard: yes,,perghaps
Zen Arado: Picasso achieved quite a lot though :)
Eliza Madrigal: One interesting thing I did this year, was try to log how I spent my time for a period... I found that *most* time, was 'in between' time... no matter how I tried to manipulate/schedule things
Mickorod Renard: he did,,I like his works and achievements
Calvino Rabeni: I think, the energy is the best thing from figures like Picasso - not necessarily the formulas
Zen Arado: good point Calvino
Eliza Madrigal nods, quite
Mickorod Renard: thats a nice point Calvino
Zen Arado: he sure has lots of energy
Zen Arado: had
Calvino Rabeni: an inspiring amount

--BELL--

Zen Arado: or maybe he used it more effectively?
SophiaSharon Larnia: the trick being how to let that energy flow and not try to make it conform to an expected outcome, maybe, hard not to put boundaries on it
Mickorod Renard: perhaps its our expossure to what so many have achieved,,like picasso,,that can contribute to an individual feeling lacking in personal merit
Zen Arado: yes Sophia
Eliza Madrigal nods to SophiaSharon
Eliza Madrigal: So...a person could plug along and do much by being very methodical, and another frantic and have a period of productivity... and they end up with same 'outer' results...
Mickorod Renard: before television etc,,we as a spieces must have been less illuminated
Zen Arado: we shouldn't compare ourselves to others I think
Mickorod Renard: I think you are right Zen,,but we do
Eliza Madrigal: yes Zen, I think that's it... show up as ourselves :)
Zen Arado: true Mick
Eliza Madrigal: harder than it sounds... which is why naturalness turns out to be such a slippery topic... funny :)
Mickorod Renard: I try not to,,but subconciously see that I am all the time
Eliza Madrigal nods
Gaya Ethaniel: I heard Bhutan was the happiest country in the world before TV was introduced.
Eliza Madrigal: How did someone know that?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: they aim for a gross Happiness quotient raher than a financial one I heard
Gaya Ethaniel: I think ... mm ... there is an index of some sort that measures happiness by country regularly.
Zen Arado: TV can produce wants
Calvino Rabeni: Do you watch much TV / does it affect your happiness?
Gaya Ethaniel: Much like best country in the world etc.
arabella Ella: yes Malta where I am is generally said by the index to be one of the happiest countries
Wol Euler: if you google Gross National Happiness, there's an analysis on wikipedia of how it was derived, and why
arabella Ella: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Ahhh
Gaya Ethaniel: best to live*
Zen Arado: interesting
Eliza Madrigal googles
Mickorod Renard: I saw that the index widely used is flawed
arabella Ella: so those of you who are Guardians should consider coming over to Malta for the retreat learn about our happiness secret :)
Wol Euler grins and nods
arabella Ella: oh Mick .... let us just be happy!
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: I think the main point is how powerful effects media can have on people ...
Mickorod Renard: it doesnt take into account family values etyc
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, that would be a good session theme
Eliza Madrigal smiles... would love to go to Malta... alas
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Mickorod Renard: well,,I think I am quite happy..most of the time
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Calvino Rabeni: I think my father was a master of the zen of discontent
arabella Ella: I think weather may play a role too although I had better not say much on that topic as I have no guarantees for January
arabella Ella: no problems here generally with SAD
Eliza Madrigal: zen of discontent? what a phrase... go on Calvino?
Wol Euler: heh
Mickorod Renard: he he
Gaya Ethaniel: lol
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, and near water is generally healing too, Ara
Calvino Rabeni: Nothing like a good sulk, according to him
Calvino Rabeni: heh heh
Mickorod Renard: I think all sons think that of there Dads,,he he
Eliza Madrigal: :)
arabella Ella: yes Eliza true
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Zen Arado: yes it would be very dificult to measure happiness
Eliza Madrigal: Well thinking we can capture it in some formula seems at least half the frustration... so many packages of happy sold...
arabella Ella: and ... happiness may mean different things to different people
Mickorod Renard: but sons seem more blase to worrying issues
Calvino Rabeni: mm?
Mickorod Renard: ;)
Mickorod Renard: well,,my son doesnt seem to have any worries,,he he
Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps 'worrisome' is also relative ... :)
Eliza Madrigal: My son said to me that buddha sounded depressed, to him... when I told him that he said all life is suffering...
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: he was complaining about school, and expecting someone to make it fun
Zen Arado: lots of ppl get that idea
Gaya Ethaniel: Well suffering doesn't quite cover the original word as translation I heard.
Mickorod Renard: I use the word worrysome in a liberal fashion,,grin
Gaya Ethaniel: RL calls, good night everyone :)
Wol Euler: yes,the word needs unpacking
Calvino Rabeni: it has issues similr to "sin"
Eliza Madrigal: and I was hoping he might see that he has something to do with the fun part... in any situation he's in
Wol Euler: goodnight gaya, take care
Mickorod Renard: nite Gaya
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Gaya :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Gaya :)
arabella Ella: nite Gaya hope you have a lovely evening :)
Zen Arado: bye Gaya
Mickorod Renard: I will leave the worry in the box for now Wol
Mickorod Renard: ;)
Calvino Rabeni: sin and suffering - powerful words
Mickorod Renard: maybe for ever
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: :)
arabella Ella: well Mick there are worry beads, worry dolls ... lots of remedies many which work
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles at the idea of leaving that in the box not unpacked Mick
Zen Arado: sounds like a good idea :)
Mickorod Renard: well,,much is about compartmentalising
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes i know that well :))
Eliza Madrigal nods... which keeps energy from flowing maybe
Calvino Rabeni: yes
Zen Arado: it will force its way out sometime though mabe

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: tell us more Eliza?
Zen Arado: yes
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, just thinking that when we are too compartmentalized it is difficult to express ourselves...
Eliza Madrigal: to be authentic perhaps...
Eliza Madrigal: calculations, etc
Zen Arado: like it is too artificial?
arabella Ella: what do you mean though by compartementalised?
Zen Arado: artificial barriers in our minds
Eliza Madrigal: So we thin one situation calls for __, when maybe it could benefit from something we've only used in another context...
Eliza Madrigal: *think
Eliza Madrigal: inflexibility
Eliza Madrigal: Of course that's not a formula either...hahah
Calvino Rabeni: I understand, thanks
Zen Arado: isn't mindfulness akind of compartmentalization though?
Mickorod Renard: I know thart its possible to store away issues that would be better off dealt with openly
SophiaSharon Larnia: feeling/becoming a different person in different situations
Zen Arado: long word that :)
arabella Ella: oh ty Sophia
Eliza Madrigal: yes so possible, and thanks Sharon, nods
Zen Arado: concentrating only on the present?
SophiaSharon Larnia: im sure everyone has a unique way of looking at it
Zen Arado: just a thought
Eliza Madrigal: Well, we can't capture 'now' either, Zn
Calvino Rabeni: good issue, Zen
Zen Arado: true Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: If we are trying to concentrate on some idea of what the present is... hm
Calvino Rabeni: But the present may not be a compartment
Eliza Madrigal: I love an eckhart tolle line "If you are looking at the past, you are still looking at it now"
Zen Arado: though we shut out the past and future
Calvino Rabeni: should not however
Zen Arado: ah yes it's all in the now anyway
Calvino Rabeni: sure
Calvino Rabeni: it is the greater present moment
Eliza Madrigal: so somehow it seems to go back to flow.. in flow state, multitasking can be mindful as much as washing one dish for 20 minutes?
Calvino Rabeni: can be
Zen Arado: if we openn fully to the now ...not make artificial compartments....
Eliza Madrigal: and either can bring a sense of satisfaction?
arabella Ella: interesting thought Eliza ... mmmmm
Calvino Rabeni: yes
Zen Arado: maybe
Zen Arado: we have to multi task mindfully
Eliza Madrigal: so then my one dollar can go head to head with another's twenty... in that mindset... for effectiveness and work done... strange but I think so
Mickorod Renard: usually to be able to open up to now,,we have to compartmentalise all the junk,,to free up
Calvino Rabeni: being mindful is not being slow
Calvino Rabeni: except it is a good exercise :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes it is :)
Calvino Rabeni: because of oour conditioning of fast + not midful
Eliza Madrigal: maybe anything that shakes up our formulas/ideas...
Calvino Rabeni: is helpful
Zen Arado: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Eliza Madrigal: there was a book "Everything Bad is Good for You" a few years ago...
Calvino Rabeni: nice
arabella Ella: he he
Mickorod Renard: in compuer jargen,,we need dual core processors
Zen Arado: "do something different" as Pema Chodron says
Calvino Rabeni: a respcted historihat as a philosophy
Calvino Rabeni: historian. sorry abt typing
Calvino Rabeni: "Every virtue was once a vice"
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: and vice versa?
Calvino Rabeni: First book in Will Durant's "The story of civilization"
Wol Euler: for certain values of "every", perhaps.
Mickorod Renard: yes, it was vice versa here
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, probably vice versa
Eliza Madrigal: nods...'every gets tricky... a kind of compartmentalizing and formula making, too... sigh :)

--BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: slips quietly away, bye everyone :)<slips>
Zen Arado: bye Sophia
Mickorod Renard: bye Sophia
Zen Arado: I hav e to go too
Zen Arado: thanks for interesting discussion :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Zen, thanks
Wol Euler: bye zen, sohpia
Mickorod Renard: Bye Zen
Mickorod Renard: well,,that was quite a busy chat tonite
Eliza Madrigal notices that when she is working on something and focused, she often comes across like 'teaching'... apologies...
Calvino Rabeni: so many themes in the air at once
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: yes
Eliza Madrigal: It is exciting to me when we are all working on untangling something...
arabella Ella: you dont really Eliza ... what you said was terribly interesting right through
Eliza Madrigal: and bringing our energies to it... little unravelings here and there
arabella Ella nods
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks, Ara :)
Mickorod Renard: is there much on the wiki for wok Eliza,,for me to catch up on?
Calvino Rabeni: yes it is exciting - i acknowledge
Eliza Madrigal: We had two open discussions Mick, so there are things to read....
Eliza Madrigal: Thursday's homework is up...
Mickorod Renard: ok thanks
Eliza Madrigal: watching our energy, and seeing how our nature checks our nature
Eliza Madrigal: hehe..wrap your mind around that one....
Eliza Madrigal: giggles
Wol Euler speaks directly to the GoC: please edit *Visitor* out of the log.
Calvino Rabeni: did you watch your energy in this session?
Mickorod Renard: ouch
Eliza Madrigal: :) I did... definitely Cal, You?
Mickorod Renard: who is Goc?
Calvino Rabeni: Because there is a lot of it
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, esp. during the timeouts
Wol Euler: sophia, it says here.
Mickorod Renard: ok
Calvino Rabeni: who is *Visitor*?
Wol Euler: (He/she) passed through here a moment ago, I was talking with (him/her)
Eliza Madrigal will edit (him/her) out if Sharon doesn't catch it
Calvino Rabeni: ok
Mickorod Renard: we need everyone permissions to post what they say Calvino
Calvino Rabeni: I C
Mickorod Renard: so if we couldnt confirm she was ok with that we must edit
Calvino Rabeni: nice ethic
Wol Euler: well, compulsory ethic :) it's in the TOS
Eliza Madrigal: :) so a no brainer... no ethical effort required :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, calm after the storm?
Eliza Madrigal: I think half my energy was cinnamon rolls...
Eliza Madrigal giggles
arabella Ella: could you pass them around please Eliza ...
Mickorod Renard: the smell of xmas
Wol Euler: mmmmmmmm
arabella Ella: yummy
Eliza Madrigal smiles... yes wish I could... the Amish are in town again...
Mickorod Renard: home baked?
Eliza Madrigal: MMMM
Mickorod Renard: anyone know when dreams is back?
Mickorod Renard: is it still the new year?
Eliza Madrigal: I think mid to end January if I remember correctly, Mick
Eliza Madrigal: Have dreams to discuss?
Eliza Madrigal leans in
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: yes, i had a dream to tell too,,I will have to save it
Calvino Rabeni: precognitive?
Mickorod Renard: no,,,not this time
Calvino Rabeni: sometimes though. it is interesting. I don't know what to make of it realy
Eliza Madrigal: hm... now curious
Mickorod Renard: it was nice to remember one,,I seem to be goin through a blank patch recently
Calvino Rabeni: I am kind of more interested in "mini" examples of what might be called the same phenomenon as precognition</slips>

<slips><slips>--BELL--</slips>
<slips/></slips>

<slips>Eliza Madrigal: Doorbell here, have to run. Thanks everyone :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now
Wol Euler: bye eliza
Mickorod Renard: bye eLIZA
Calvino Rabeni: Bye!
Mickorod Renard: I am interested in those too Calvino
Mickorod Renard: Pila was well into dreams as well
Calvino Rabeni: time for it now?
Mickorod Renard: doubt it
Calvino Rabeni: (earmarking for later)
Mickorod Renard: but I wonder too,,whether those who have them may feel silly relating them
Calvino Rabeni: something to deal with in this group, if so
Calvino Rabeni: I can hedge them so not to feel silly
Mickorod Renard: we have discussed them from time to time
Wol Euler: but the dream worksho doesn't meet here, so the discussions are not published
Mickorod Renard: but the dream sessions we have at Kira cafe is a good forum for it
Calvino Rabeni: are those ongoing lately?
Mickorod Renard: operated by Maxine
Mickorod Renard: they are on hold until the new year
Calvino Rabeni: the topic doesnt seem outside the extended PAB purview though
Mickorod Renard: I think thats why we do touch on the subject from time to time
arabella Ella: well Maxine has at times brought up the topic here when she is Guardian of a session
Mickorod Renard: but I have to be going home now anyway
arabella Ella: and of course why not as you said Calvino
arabella Ella: i must go now too
arabella Ella: nite all
Mickorod Renard: nite Ara
arabella Ella: thanks for an interesting chat tonite
Calvino Rabeni: good night
Wol Euler: bye ara, take care
Mickorod Renard: I must go too Wol ansd Calvino
Mickorod Renard: thanks for tonite
Wol Euler: goodnight mick, take care.
Mickorod Renard: nite nite,,and good day,,he he
Calvino Rabeni: well wol, odd how I rarely look closely at avatars
Wol Euler smiles
Calvino Rabeni: because they don't really express dynamically
Wol Euler: I think many don't.
Calvino Rabeni: but yours is very ... spikly!
Wol Euler: spiky?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Wol Euler: ah, the bracelets etc. yes.
Calvino Rabeni: do you change it regularly?
Wol Euler: yes indeed
Wol Euler: almost every session
Calvino Rabeni: I wanted to verify that impression
Calvino Rabeni: I'm kind of boring about mine
Wol Euler: though I do sometimes get into a run of wearing hte same one for a few days, if I really like it
Wol Euler chucles.
Calvino Rabeni: Another body to dress
Calvino Rabeni: it is an aesthetic
Wol Euler: the PaB response would be: either change that, or accept it :)
Calvino Rabeni: yes
Calvino Rabeni: I made a female one just to try it out
Wol Euler: I can give you some shopping advice, if you wish :)
Calvino Rabeni: Sure!
Wol Euler: oh, cool. And?
Wol Euler: (want to turn off the recorder, or is this OK?)
Calvino Rabeni: Turn it off</slips>