2009.11.27 07:00 - From Having to Being to Exercising

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

Widget Whiteberry: good morning
Qt Core: Hi all
Pema Pera: good morning Widget, and good afternoon, Qt!
Qt Core: ty pema good ... depending where in the wordl you are today pema ;-)
Pema Pera: haha, morning here
Pema Pera: I'm still at home in New York
Pema Pera: next week I'll be in Japan again
Qt Core: (japan, the only country i really would like to visit)
Widget Whiteberry: that's a lot of time in transit
Pema Pera: yes, but I'm used to it by now, Widget
Widget Whiteberry: I'm still hovering on the edges of PaB .... what for the two of you, makes for a good hour here?
Widget Whiteberry: edges of understanding ...
Pema Pera: many possibilities, Widget
Widget Whiteberry nods enocouragingly
Pema Pera: most importantly, if you have some questions, or comments, or something you'd like to share, please go right ahead!
Qt Core: a way to force myself to be quieter and more open
Widget Whiteberry thinks she just did
Pema Pera: hahaha
Widget Whiteberry: ^^
Pema Pera: well, have you been playing a bit with the notion of "dropping what you have to see what you are"? That may be a fun topic!
Pema Pera: hi Calvino!
Widget Whiteberry: I have not!
Qt Core: i calvino
Pema Pera: have you tried the 9 seconds breaks in general?
Widget Whiteberry: yes
Widget Whiteberry: frequently
Pema Pera: how did that go?
Pema Pera: or how does that go?
Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
Pema Pera: :)
Widget Whiteberry: for me, they are a moment to center myself
Widget Whiteberry: and let go of whatever is occupying my attention
Pema Pera: ah, you see, a shift from what you have to what you are -- you've secretly been doing it already :-)
Widget Whiteberry: lol
Widget Whiteberry: how clever I am!

Qt Core: in the last days i used them to drop some nervousness coming from frequent (and sometimes useless) meeting
Pema Pera: :)
Widget Whiteberry: meetings sometimes do that to me too
Pema Pera: what happens then, Qt?
Widget Whiteberry: Good day, arch mage
Pema Pera: hi Arch!
Widget Whiteberry: Fael!
Qt Core: then i can start doing whet we decided without being angry if i didn't liked the solution ;-)
Pema Pera: hi Fael!
Qt Core: hi arch, fael
Fael Illyar: Hi Everyone :)
Pema Pera: yes, Qt, and this goes back to this notion of dropping what you have
Archmage Atlantis: Greetings all
Pema Pera: normally we see "I am angry" with the "am" seeming to indicate that we are really stuck to it
Widget Whiteberry: so a solution to a problem is a thing I have..... interesting notion
Pema Pera: I "am" angry
Pema Pera: but in fact you can also view the anger as a kind of coat you are temporarily wearing
Qt Core: (but i still wich for a pungingball, sometimes )
Qt Core: wish
Pema Pera: you try it on and then you can take it off again
Pema Pera: so centering means finding your real core, underneath the anger
Widget Whiteberry: Qt, that wish for a punchigball is a biochemical signal from your body - running a flight of stairs helps
Widget Whiteberry: or even walking one a few times
Qt Core: yes, like finding the floor in low sea after the floating sand drops
Widget Whiteberry: anger creates chemical changes and strenuous large muscle exercise helpss to reset yourself
Widget Whiteberry wonders if she a committed a fauz paux
Pema Pera: how so, Widget?
--BELL--
Widget Whiteberry: the silence that followed my statement, Pema
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: perhaps we were all pondering, Widget :)

Qt Core: whichever large muscle exercise is mentioned to me i'm scared ;-) jk
Widget Whiteberry: :(
Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
Qt Core: whenever
Widget Whiteberry: lol Qt
Widget Whiteberry: no dancing? no brisk walks?
Qt Core: but i agree
Qt Core: dancing... no, never, not even in sl if avoidable
Widget Whiteberry: you deprive yourself
Widget Whiteberry: of several of lifes simpler pleasures
Widget Whiteberry: imco
Qt Core: reminishing about the times i went to the gym (i hated it but i needed... well i steel may need it)
Widget Whiteberry: the gym isn't much fun for me, but it is efficient
Widget Whiteberry: and going regularly effects my mindset
Widget Whiteberry: outlook, temperment, etc
Qt Core: i disliked most exercise as the would not fully "entrap" me
Widget Whiteberry: entrap?
Qt Core: but the only one that did that ... i sometimes was loosing mi mind for many minutes
Qt Core: took all my attention
Widget Whiteberry nods
Widget Whiteberry: for the shorter gym exercises, I concentrate on aligning my body so as not to injure myself and then I count and breathe
Fael Illyar: yes... interesting how the mind refuses to stay silent... unless there is something to do.
Qt Core: this kind of equipment: http://munfitnessblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/elliptical-exercise-machine-cross-trainer.jpg is the one i liked
Widget Whiteberry: for the longer ones - cardio - I find it necessary to focus on something else
Qt Core: i'm not speaking about the girl ;-)
Widget Whiteberry: the girl is beautiful to look at, and that's the one I use for longer periods - and need to focus attention elsewhere for periods of time
Qt Core: girls at the gym are far too dstracting the only solution for me is not to wear glasses while there
Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
Widget Whiteberry: not inspiring?
Qt Core: btw, the main difference of that exercise, both phisically and mentally is that it gives some feedback, the thing keeps mooving so you are somewhat pushed to move and as all the limb are working almost guided the brain can stop/shut himself
Widget Whiteberry nods
Pema Pera: yes, like bicycling or swimming
Fael Illyar: now... why can't the brain stop/shut without that?
--BELL--
Qt Core: even more, letting drowing aside you can stop at a moment notice swimming/cycling
Qt Core: and you have to actively start each movement
Widget Whiteberry: so much of what our brains do is not accessible to conscious thought .... so I wonder about 'shutting down' ....
Widget Whiteberry: maybe it's a slowing down of the firing rate of some synapses
Widget Whiteberry needs to read a lot* more
Pema Pera: or we can just work with thoughts -- we talk about the brain, but we only experience experiences :)
Widget Whiteberry nods

Pema Pera: Coming back to our previous discussion: another way to describe the move from having to being: it goes in the other direction from most traditions.
Widget Whiteberry: how so?
Pema Pera: Usually the idea is to view yourself as very limited and in need of something, reaching out to something else outside of you: a God or an idea of enlightenment or a future better world
Pema Pera: But here we view what we have as limited, and as not-us, as outside us, with what we really are at the core.
Pema Pera: So rather than reaching out, we use the 9 seconds to center and come home to what we already are.
Widget Whiteberry: ohhhh, that* is a helpful idea
Pema Pera: and u c u already did that :-)
Widget Whiteberry grins
Pema Pera: as for what Qt said about thoughts slowing down, become more quiet: it's generally the thoughts at the outside, so to speak, that are loudest, it seems
Pema Pera: at the very core of our being the thoughts are softer, in fact often wordless
Pema Pera: hi Hana!
Hana Furlough: hi everyone~
Widget Whiteberry: Hi!
Pema Pera: wb Hana!
Qt Core: hi hana
Hana Furlough: thanks, but not quite back yet
Hana Furlough: : )
Pema Pera: still in Europe?
Fael Illyar: Hello Hana :)
Hana Furlough: yep
Pema Pera: Greece?
Hana Furlough: yes!
Qt Core: i think that most if no all of the more internal thought have just one volume level, all the louder are more or less tied to recent external inputs
Pema Pera: at the next break, we can do a little exploration, watching thoughts arise
Pema Pera: have you done that here already, Widget?
Widget Whiteberry: hmm, not well, Pema
Pema Pera: the idea is to just watch thoughts come and go
Widget Whiteberry nods
Pema Pera: thoughts and emotions and memories, anything the mind produces
Pema Pera: but without holding on to any of them
Widget Whiteberry: and not engage with any of it, right
Pema Pera: and without judging
Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
Pema Pera: yes indeed
Widget Whiteberry: like the space shuttle just landing
Pema Pera: we can use the 90 seconds coming up to do that again
Widget Whiteberry: that* got my attention
Qt Core: and not actively ask for any of them i suppose
Pema Pera: landing with only one chance :-)
Pema Pera: indeed, Qt
Archmage Atlantis: All are different
Widget Whiteberry: in SL , there are so many channels pouring info in my direction
Qt Core: the issua of i don't think, i don't think i din't think about apples... and boom a big red apple in fron of your inner eye
Hana Furlough: that's it
Pema Pera: so let's just watch the coming and going of thoughts -- see whether we can just follow them, without manipulating
--BELL--

Fael Illyar: silent cacophony :)
Pema Pera: :)
Hana Furlough: the best kind
Qt Core: a colorful pause i kept thinking about the colors of arch's shirt, the grass and... pema's air
Qt Core: hair
Widget Whiteberry: I wondered if there were a bell to signal the end, so I opened my eyes, turned sounds on and then drifted
Fael Illyar: I watched the screen, listening to the silent cacophony :)
Widget Whiteberry: I listened to the birds
Widget Whiteberry: once I turned sounds on
Pema Pera: I got quite a cold the last few days. I played with switching between identifying with my sore throat as a center point, and letting it all just be, letting the feelings come and go, around me so to speak.
Widget Whiteberry: and gargled with hot salt water, I hope
Widget Whiteberry is such* a nurturer
Pema Pera: now that's an idea :)
Widget Whiteberry: especially if you are about to travel
Pema Pera: oh, still five days away, fortunately!
Fael Illyar: I've felt like I was getting a cold several times but each time it's been gone pretty fast.
Widget Whiteberry: sometimes, some bug sneaks up on me
Qt Core: between the lovely birds and the water jets that seem to becominh shorter and shorter but it never change height i lose myself often here (that is where i am when i stay silent for long times (mostly)
Widget Whiteberry: other times, when I'm paying attemtion, I seem to be able to act quickly and effectively
Widget Whiteberry: I see that too, Qt
Calvino Rabeni: PAB is a kind of laboratory, is interesting like that
Pema Pera: yes, inviting you to use your whole life as a lab
Calvino Rabeni: Can choose what parameters to change
Calvino Rabeni: and what to hold steady
Calvino Rabeni: it is less like meditation than expermientation
Pema Pera: yes, all that you ever experience is experiences, even though we label it as this and that
Calvino Rabeni: thought experiments
Pema Pera: so when we look at our life as a stream of experiences, we have a lot of leeway to play with it
Pema Pera: (not meant that we would be stand-off-ish)
Pema Pera: (in fact, in some ways relating to experiences as experiences can feel more intimate)
Calvino Rabeni: no, we are embedded
Pema Pera: and when I realize that "I" is also an experience, a lot opens up . . . .
Fael Illyar: words are an attempt to categorize experiences
Calvino Rabeni: or to commuincate experiences
Widget Whiteberry nods
Calvino Rabeni: or to create experiences
Pema Pera: or judge experiences :)
Fael Illyar: mix would be more accurate perhaps
--BELL--

Pema Pera: I used the word "experiences" but "appearances" would have been more accurate. An experience has an experiencer who experiences, a subject/object structure. Appearances don't have to conform to that, they are more primordial. There is the appearance of an experiencer-experiencing-experience triad.
Qt Core: or an attempt to idealize and drop the emotional part of an experience (in pathological cases)
Calvino Rabeni: words *are* experiences
Pema Pera: :)
Qt Core: on the same level of the experience they are attached to or on a upper level ?
Calvino Rabeni: words shift the triad
Pema Pera: how so, Calvino?
Calvino Rabeni: the experience is different, for example, if you choose a noun or a verb
Calvino Rabeni: words give a perspective
Pema Pera: ah yes, very much so
Hana Furlough: nice
Qt Core: buth then there are so much different experience based on the language you are experiencing with
Pema Pera: that's an interesting part of learning different languages: in Japanese many adjectives are in fact verbs
Qt Core: (i'm thinking about english words, the same word can be a noun, an adjective or a verb)
Qt Core: in italian verbs are a class apart and just some are the same as nouns
Pema Pera: time for me to return to that other world, RL . . . .
Pema Pera: nice talking with all of you!
Qt Core: yeah, i heard about that too
Hana Furlough: and you~ bye pema~
Pema Pera: bye everybody
Calvino Rabeni: bye!
Qt Core: i have to go too, bye all
Widget Whiteberry: me too
Widget Whiteberry: thank you for today
Fael Illyar: I will go also. Bye Everyone! Have fun :)
Hana Furlough: me three!
Calvino Rabeni: All fly :)
Hana Furlough: bye everyone~