2009.11.27 13:00 - just a friday 1 pm

The Guardian for this meeting was Yakuzza Lethecus. The comments are by Yakuzza Lethecus.

Fael Illyar: ca on
Fael Illyar: Hi Geoff :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Yak :)
Geoff Baily: can i join you again
Yakuzza Lethecus: hiya everyone :)
Fael Illyar: Of course, it's an open meeting :)
Wol Euler: hello geoff
Yakuzza Lethecus: geoff ur new ?
Wol Euler: 12 days old, it says here ;)
Geoff Baily: thaks hello everyone
Fael Illyar: Hi Qt :)
Wol Euler: hello qt
Qt Core: hi all
Geoff Baily: yes this is the second time for me here
Yakuzza Lethecus: so you have been introduced ?
Wol Euler: and you know about the recorder.
Geoff Baily: not really
Yakuzza Lethecus: i do that in pm
Geoff Baily: yes
Geoff Baily: thanks for the information
Bertram Jacobus: hy every body ! ... :-)
Wol Euler: hello bert, calvino, zen
Zen Arado: Hi All:)
Calvino Rabeni: Hello all!
Fael Illyar: Hi Bert, Zen, Calvino, Sharon :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi sophia
Wol Euler: hello sharon
Zen Arado: Hi Sophia
Qt Core: hi new ones, got a little distracted
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi everyone :)
Geoff Baily: hi everyone
Archmage Atlantis: None here are new
Qt Core: (new as in just arrived)
Archmage Atlantis: All bllong
Bertram Jacobus: bllong ?
Zen Arado: we are new every moment :)
Archmage Atlantis: belong
Bertram Jacobus: old, new ... relative ... ;o)
Yakuzza Lethecus: nah, i still work on that newness :)
Archmage Atlantis: We are also old every moment
Zen Arado: if we carry the past around with us ?
Archmage Atlantis: Because we carry the past, as information
SophiaSharon Larnia: dropping what you have is dropping the past too
Fael Illyar: yes, remembering the past is what makes for old...
Zen Arado: I am the oldest here I am sure
Zen Arado: in years
Wol Euler smiles.
Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm, i can´t imagine
Bertram Jacobus: how old are you ? :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, maybe in this round today
Zen Arado: hate to reveal :)
Fael Illyar raises a hand "28!"
Wol Euler: teaser.
Bertram Jacobus: ok. not necessairy :-)
Archmage Atlantis: I chose not to drop my past, it has value
Archmage Atlantis: I also chose to become new in every moment
Zen Arado: some are old in attitude
Zen Arado: set in their ways and preudices
Geoff Baily: i'm 65 but new each second
Fael Illyar: Zen, yes, that's those who can't let the past go.
Zen Arado: ha ha I beat you
Bertram Jacobus: i´m not sure whether there is really a choice
Zen Arado: I'm 66
Bertram Jacobus: 54 here ... :-)
Wol Euler: yes, you probably win :)
Wol Euler: 51
Yakuzza Lethecus: but only today :)
Zen Arado: welcome to the old folks home :)
Geoff Baily: you just beat me? Zen!!
Bertram Jacobus: lol
SophiaSharon Larnia: grins
Fael Illyar feels happily at home he old folks home.
Bertram Jacobus: :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia is laughing for reals
Archmage Atlantis: My cat, Nimbus, is 18....I think he wins
Zen Arado: great age for a cat :)
Wol Euler: mhmm
--BELL--
Zen Arado: feel better that you aren't all kids :)
Wol Euler: well, what does age mean?
Fael Illyar: the average age at PaB is pretty high :)
Bertram Jacobus: experience for example
Fael Illyar: I'm almost the youngest
Wol Euler: I feel younger now than I did in my late twenties
Zen Arado: me too Wol
Bertram Jacobus: and there are silly old people and wise young ones ...
Fael Illyar: I feel younger now than a few years ago :D
Bertram Jacobus: and vice versa ;o)
Bertram Jacobus: i get older every year - one year each ;-)
Zen Arado: but when you start get treated like a doddery old fool....
Archmage Atlantis: Putting names and ages on my spreadsheet
Bertram Jacobus: then that´s normal
Zen Arado: ageism
Wol Euler nods. The assumptions start to hurt.
Zen Arado: but it's ego I guess
Zen Arado: and maybe I am a doddery old fool :)
Zen Arado: why worry?
Archmage Atlantis: Hurt gives power
Calvino Rabeni: A A is right
Bertram Jacobus: my lama healed me from my illusion that i meant i had to be forever young
Zen Arado: is society becoming more ageist do you think?
Bertram Jacobus: hey bolo ! :-)
Bolonath Crystal: namaste :)
Zen Arado: Hi Bolo
Fael Illyar: Hi Bolo :)
Wol Euler: hello bolonath
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Bolonath
Zen Arado: Hi Zon
Wol Euler: hello zon
Fael Illyar: Hi Zon :)
Qt Core: hi bolonath, zon
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Zon
Bertram Jacobus: hy zon :-)
Zon Quar: hi all
Bertram Jacobus: zen and zon could fill the circle :o)
Wol Euler: :)
Bertram Jacobus: :-))
Zon Quar: cmon zen
Bertram Jacobus: yeah ! :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Wol Euler cheers. Bonus karma points for us all.
Zen Arado: you have OCD ?
Zon Quar: now we r perfect circle
Zen Arado: :)
Bertram Jacobus: was that word onigoko ? :-)
Wol Euler: with two "k"s
Bertram Jacobus: ah ! ty ! :-)
Bertram Jacobus: onigokko ? :-)
Zen Arado: what does thaT MEAN?
Zon Quar: 12 apostles
Zen Arado: ah
Bertram Jacobus: nothing happens ... hm - wol ?
Wol Euler: just the word on its own...
Bertram Jacobus: onigokko
Wol Euler: that#s what it means :)
Fael Illyar: ah, too late :)
Bertram Jacobus: lol. ty ... :-))
Zon Quar: lol
Fael Illyar: stop
Archmage Atlantis: Are there 12 in the circle?
Fael Illyar: onigokko
Zon Quar: time to celebrate
Wol Euler: friday!
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Bertram Jacobus: stop
Yakuzza Lethecus: is there an insanity defence for this ? :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: !!
Zon Quar: no defence needed
SophiaSharon Larnia: now laughing at everyone sitting omg
Fael Illyar giggles.
Bertram Jacobus: lol. sry. can´t give it to others at the mom ...
Wol Euler: we'll have to do that in RL at the retreat in Malta
Bolonath Crystal: *g*
Bertram Jacobus: would be funny :o)
Bertram Jacobus: arms in the aiiiir ! :o)
Archmage Atlantis: Clarity as insanity
SophiaSharon Larnia: can see people running into each other though
Zen Arado: ty Fael
Wol Euler: I'm sure we'll work someting out
Bertram Jacobus: or better insanity as clarity ?
Zon Quar: ty..how does it work
Fael Illyar: wear it and say onigokko :)
Zon Quar: onigokko
Fael Illyar: no need to stand :)
Zon Quar: LOL
Bertram Jacobus: simply wear it . yes and stiop if you wish to stop :-))
Wol Euler: geoff, do you want one?
Bertram Jacobus: stop i meant :o)
SophiaSharon Larnia: stop
Zon Quar: puuuuuff
Wol Euler: stop
Fael Illyar: stop
Zen Arado: getting too old for this :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
Zon Quar: never too old to rock n roll
Bertram Jacobus: don´t think so ;-)
Archmage Atlantis: One is never too old
Bolonath Crystal: i hope i die before i'm getting too old for that ;)
Bertram Jacobus: agree
Zen Arado: easy in SL
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Fael Illyar: when you can't handle being silly, you know you're getting old for real :)
Zen Arado: the Who are still going though
Wol Euler: and teh Stones, though Mick's old enough for a pension
Bertram Jacobus: you´re getting old when the music in the supermarket begins to be yours i found out (!) ... ;o)
Zen Arado: and the rest
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol Bertam
Bertram Jacobus: :-))
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: I prefer the new artists
Zen Arado: Carpenters ;)
Zen Arado: why do we tend to only like music from our youth?
Wol Euler: O.O
Zon Quar: hm
Bolonath Crystal: do we?
Zon Quar: we ?
Wol Euler: do we? (quick poll)
Zen Arado: think so
SophiaSharon Larnia: I don't now, idn't like it then either
Wol Euler: I don't, thre's very little from then that I still listen to
Zon Quar: music is linked with emotions
Qt Core: don't think... but i'm the child here it seems, 38
Zon Quar: so whe we r young
Zon Quar: we r emotonal
SophiaSharon Larnia: me too Qt
Bertram Jacobus: not "only" i guess, but if so, it may be something well known, like home ...
Zon Quar: and teh music clings to us
Fael Illyar: hmmhmm... I don't think I can participate in this topi much :)
Bertram Jacobus: why not fael ?
Qt Core: i just discovered a new group some month ago and i'm going to my first concert in a weeks
Fael Illyar: 28
Archmage Atlantis: After all, in our time, are Bach and Beethoven preformed by my contemportemporaries
Zen Arado: I sem to even remember the words to 60's and 70's stuff :)
Bertram Jacobus: ah yes i forgot already again lol (sic!) fael ... ty :o)
Wol Euler: the funny thing is, I'm listening to stuff that was *around* during my childhood but which I disliked then.
Zen Arado: yes that happens to me
Zen Arado: hated David Bowie but now I like him
Bertram Jacobus: as i wrote before wol : now it may bring a feeling like "home" ... well known ...
Wol Euler: perhaps, yes.
Wol Euler: but someone else#s home :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
Bertram Jacobus: okay ;-)
Zon Quar: music brigs memories
Bertram Jacobus: but on the other hand not wol ...
Zen Arado: we are talking pop music though
Zen Arado: classical is eternal
Zon Quar: uncoscious links to past
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Flora
Bolonath Crystal: i don't need any concerts. if i wanna listen to good music, i go to the supermarket
Wol Euler: :)
Calvino Rabeni: In 300 yearss, Led Zepplin might be considered classical
Yakuzza Lethecus: hello aubergine
Zon Quar: isnt it already ?
Bertram Jacobus: hey aubergine :-)
Wol Euler: there's a thought.
Zen Arado: doubt it though :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: grins
Aubergine Mint: hi, can i join you?
Zen Arado: Hi Aubergine
Fael Illyar: Hello Aubergine :) Sure, it'san open meeting
Zon Quar: yes behind me is a free place
SophiaSharon Larnia: Yes, Aubergine
Yakuzza Lethecus: sure take a pillow/seat
Archmage Atlantis: Fael, love, what is classical music to you?
Wol Euler: hello aubergine
Aubergine Mint: hi
Wol Euler: oh, one day old! welcome to second life.
Zen Arado: I wa two on Wednesday
Aubergine Mint: thanks Yakuzza
Zen Arado: a terrible two
Fael Illyar: Classical music? ... umm ... ... music :)
Bertram Jacobus: is this your first sl avatar aubergine ? :-)
Wol Euler laughs
Wol Euler: I was IMing hte same question.
Bertram Jacobus: hehe :-)
Aubergine Mint: yes
Wol Euler: wow, you have a very good eye then.
Aubergine Mint: hard to keep up with all this
Bertram Jacobus: okay ... and may a i ask another question aubergine ? how you found this place ? :-)
Bertram Jacobus: yes. sometimes it´s a bit overwhelming i find too ...
Bertram Jacobus: "a bit" ... ;o)
Aubergine Mint: found Kira and looked at the website
Bertram Jacobus: interesting ... i never was at kira myself yet (!) ... :-)
Wol Euler: I'll give you an introduction in IM, so the group can carry on
Aubergine Mint: so what are you all talking about?
Aubergine Mint: thanks Wol
Fael Illyar: yes, I agree. Very well done avatar for a first day :)
Bertram Jacobus: the idea is to talk about a 9 second meditation practise if i don´t fail aubergine. and all other topics, too
Fael Illyar: or ... well, it would be excellent for someone who's been here for a year.
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: i would say, spiritual topics often. is that right expressed and seen ?
Fael Illyar: the topic often is about people's personal experiences.
Fael Illyar: with a spiritual viewpoint
Fael Illyar: but only when someone does bring their experiences here and shares them :)
Bertram Jacobus: and sometimes quietness ...
Zon Quar: and sometimes celebrating..
Fael Illyar: 4 meetings a day, every day of the week... yes, we have some silent meetings too :)
Bolonath Crystal: often i have difficulties to express spiritual experiences in words
Bertram Jacobus: why is that bolo ? ;-)
Zen Arado: everyone does :)
Bolonath Crystal: don't know. i use to miss the core
Bertram Jacobus: really ? not me :o)
Zen Arado: they don't fit into words IMO
Fael Illyar: the experiences need not be of the category that's generally described as spiritual.
SophiaSharon Larnia: trying seems like explaining sideways
Fael Illyar: Everything is that. Even when you just simply make some bread
Zen Arado: you have to try though
Zon Quar: too big for words...we just have to try sideways
Bertram Jacobus: i disagree - like the sentence "the finger which points to the moon is not the moon" and put aside : "but it is a finger which points to the moon" (!) ... ;-)
Calvino Rabeni: pointing then, is no problem Bert?
SophiaSharon Larnia: like trying to explain a taste to someone who never ate it
Zen Arado: yes:
Zon Quar: or light to a blind
Bolonath Crystal nods
Bertram Jacobus: for some it is for some not i guess. and also the time plays a role : some days are better, some not so easy ...
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Zon Quar: can u understand someting u havent urself expereinced ? even if someone trues to explain it
Bertram Jacobus: and when people are interested and one speaks together, also a feeling can be common i feel ...
Bertram Jacobus: so yes, partly.
Calvino Rabeni: Communication relies on the shared experience. Words cannot cause it
Bertram Jacobus: but for sure, experience is special
Bertram Jacobus: but one can help to gain it it´s my conviction
Geoff Baily: I find it very difficult to put feelings into words. often by the time i have found the words it is too late
Bolonath Crystal: well, i can easily talk about a spiritual practice, e.g. meditation methods. but describing my own experiences during meditation is very hard for me
Bolonath Crystal: especially in a virtual environment
Bolonath Crystal: maybe because most of the nonverbal communication is missing here
Bertram Jacobus: i think, it´s not always helpful to share such experiences. i mean to talk about them. but ... in more seldom situations it helps i consider ...
Bertram Jacobus: for me the net meetings have special aspects which show me the words owners : which words they use and most important : how they react (!) so i fee a lot quite fast ...
Geoff Baily: My anxiety makes me want to take control to remain safe. Difficult to let go and go with the flow of feelings
Bertram Jacobus: feel*
Bertram Jacobus: and how they act, for sure, too ... ;-)
Wol Euler: this might be a safe place to practice, Geoff :)
Archmage Atlantis: There are word that attempt to describe nn-verbal communication
Bertram Jacobus: if we act at all ... ;-)
--BELL--
Zon Quar: well i think u described ur feelings quite well Geoff
Bolonath Crystal: that's right, arch, but they are a rather poor substitute
Yakuzza Lethecus: good night everyone
Bolonath Crystal: well, an onigokko may say more than 1000 words *g*
Bolonath Crystal: nite yak
Archmage Atlantis: agree
Zen Arado: I live too much in concepts in my head and speech is concepts too?
Bertram Jacobus: good nite yaku
Wol Euler: goodngiht yaku
SophiaSharon Larnia: leaves quietly... bye for now all :)
Zen Arado: bye Yaku
Wol Euler: bye ss, take care
Zon Quar: nite yaku
Qt Core: bye sophia, yak
Bertram Jacobus: bye ssl :-)
Zon Quar: muisc is not concept
Zon Quar: music
Calvino Rabeni: Art of communication. Art is not a message
Zen Arado: I'm trying to develop 'bpdy knowledge'
Bertram Jacobus: and i don´t think, that language, words must be such concepts ...
Geoff Baily: Yes its good here
Calvino Rabeni: body knowledge
Zen Arado: verbalised concepts
Fael Illyar: Calvino, art is not message.... now you have me curious what you mean with message and art :)
Bertram Jacobus: okay. can be zen
Bertram Jacobus: but can be expression of flow, too
Zen Arado: I trhink art is communication
Zon Quar: art is....more
Fael Illyar: message is communication, no?
Calvino Rabeni: yes but communication is not message
Bertram Jacobus: nice nite qt
Zon Quar: expression
Qt Core: bye all, have fun
Wol Euler: buona sera, qt
Aubergine Mint: bye everyone, thanks for making me feel welcome
Bolonath Crystal: bye qt
Zen Arado: bye QT
Bolonath Crystal: bye aubergine
Wol Euler: bye aubergine, take care.
Zen Arado: bye Aubergine
Fael Illyar: bye Aubergine :)
Zon Quar: bye A
Geoff Baily: bye
Bertram Jacobus: thak you for havong joined us aubergine !
Wol Euler raises an eyebrorw
Bertram Jacobus: communication no message ? why calvino please ? :-)
Bertram Jacobus: eyebrow ?
Calvino Rabeni: the finger and the moon. Art is like an invitation to sit in the moonlight with someone.
Bertram Jacobus: why ? :-)
Wol Euler: with extra "r"
Calvino Rabeni: The concept of communication may mean a lot, but message degrades it to a machine metaphor
Zon Quar: creative act is expression of ur inner energies,i think communication is a bit too narrow
Calvino Rabeni: Yes very narrow I agree
Bertram Jacobus: but there are also ways of viewing this topic, which say, you can express everything by words, too ...
Zen Arado: but you still want to express something TO people
Zon Quar: hm
Wol Euler: mmmmmmmmmaybe.
Calvino Rabeni: well, you invoke imagination in your companions - it isn't so much in the words
Zon Quar: the universe manifests itself like an artwork
Zen Arado: very few would create just for themselves in isolation ?
Wol Euler: actually, I think that many do :)
Bolonath Crystal: yes
Zen Arado: the viewer also creates the art
Wol Euler: they create for the joy of creation, not thinking about ohther people at all
Fael Illyar: perhaps... Art is what is between the concrete parts that make up the art.
Calvino Rabeni: perhaps if they do, it is because they are multiple
Fael Illyar: or behind
Bertram Jacobus: nap attack here. so i leave. ty for the talk ! may all beings be happy please ! ...
Calvino Rabeni: nice idea fael
Zon Quar: real artist does not make his work to others but to express his own way..like van gogh
Bolonath Crystal: bye bert
Wol Euler: hehehehhe, bye bert, sleep well
Calvino Rabeni: BYe bet
Zen Arado: bye Bert
Archmage Atlantis: Multiple, yes I have known those who are multiple
Bertram Jacobus: ty all again ! :-)) and have a good time ! ... :-)
Fael Illyar: Bye Bert :) Sleep well!
Zen Arado: but he learned from others and inspired others
Calvino Rabeni: it's not unreasonable to assume all people are multiple
Zen Arado: though art for arts sake is a good ideal I think
Zon Quar: yes..but his relation to his art was more than communicating with other pll i think
Fael Illyar: Art is communication with oneself.
Calvino Rabeni: Between multiples within oneself
Zen Arado: maybe you are right
Zon Quar: or with the whole
Zen Arado: so long as you don't have to do it fro a living
Zon Quar: lol
Bolonath Crystal: when i make music i do that preferably on my own. if i let someone listen, this is usually an act of great intimacy. so 'communication with oneself' fits very well, i think
Zen Arado: I apint to please myself mostly
Zen Arado: paint
Archmage Atlantis: "do it for a living" often means compromise toward a goal
Zen Arado: but I'm pleased if someone buys paintings
Calvino Rabeni: "art for art's sake" is to not compromise like that
--BELL--
Fael Illyar: Yes... other people can see the communication that is expressed in art.
Calvino Rabeni: "art for art's sake" was a slogan of rebellion against social control.
Zen Arado: artists don't rebel against societies so much now I think
Calvino Rabeni: but individualism may not need the extra help any more. (?)
Calvino Rabeni: The pendulum swings the other way
Zen Arado: yes
Calvino Rabeni: that pendulum has swung throughout history, one way and the other
Calvino Rabeni: it is a rhythm of civilization
Calvino Rabeni: and maybe within the life of an individual human
Zen Arado: conceptual modern art can be very materialistic I think
Zen Arado: ppl buy it for investment
Zen Arado: Saatchi
Calvino Rabeni: middle-aged people don't have the work of differentiating themselves as much as younger
Calvino Rabeni: if they did their job when young
Archmage Atlantis: We need to thred lightly, either path has dangers, there can be a middle way
Calvino Rabeni: always, A A
Zen Arado: some modern art is rubbish I think
Wol Euler: :=)
Wol Euler: yes of course :)
Wol Euler: some of everything is rubbish :)
Zen Arado: saw TV program where a guy copied out 'War and Peace@ by hand
Calvino Rabeni: Trash can be fascinating
Zen Arado: how is thaT ART?
Zon Quar: how do u like a definition like art=creativity=communicating with ones trueself/the whole/tao and expressing it
Zen Arado: yes good Zon
Calvino Rabeni: I like it
Wol Euler nods
Zen Arado: I am trying to be more intuitive in my painting
Calvino Rabeni: art speaks to the issues of the time
Zen Arado: abstract painting requires that
Calvino Rabeni: even when it provikes, it may be a turning to the middle path
Calvino Rabeni: *provokes
Fael Illyar: my latest "doodle" :)
Zen Arado: not so sure much of it does Calvino
Wol Euler smiles
Zon Quar: some "art" can be just expressiong of teh chotic mentality of the person
Calvino Rabeni: imppressive, fael
Fael Illyar smiles 'Thank you.'
Zon Quar: didnt mean faell. lol
Fael Illyar: Don't worry, I didn't think you did :)
Geoff Baily: Why is it that often it takes a generation or two to recognize a great work of art?
Bolonath Crystal: i have to leave. good bye and 'om shanti'
Zon Quar: didnt see tha..that is Art :)
Wol Euler: bye bolo, take care
Zen Arado: bye Bolo
Calvino Rabeni: I like Geoff's question
Fael Illyar: see you later Bolo :)
Calvino Rabeni: unfortunatly I must go AFK. Plz don't mind the zombie avater :)
Geoff Baily: bye thanks
Zen Arado: artists are ahead of their time
Zon Quar: becasue true artist sees more than his normal fellows
Wol Euler: be geoff, take care.
Fael Illyar: perhaps the ideas in the art need to spread before people can recognize their significance.
Zen Arado: experimenting with new forms
Zen Arado: bye Geoff
Fael Illyar: bye Geoff :)
Zon Quar: nye G
Geoff Baily: Where did Mozart's music come from?
Fael Illyar: ah, Geoff wasn't leaving :)
Geoff Baily: bye
Zon Quar: from heaven
Zen Arado: sory Geoff
Wol Euler: heheheh
Geoff Baily: connection with the infinite?
Archmage Atlantis: Mozart's music came from his pain, which heavon gave hime
Zon Quar: must go to bed to dream artistic dreams, nite all
Zen Arado: bye Zon
Fael Illyar: Good night zon :)
Zen Arado: I better go too
Zen Arado: bye
Fael Illyar: Good night Zen
Wol Euler: bye zen, zon
Fael Illyar: Actually, I'd best head to bed too :)
Geoff Baily: bye Zen
Wol Euler: bye fael, sleep well
Fael Illyar: Good night Everyone :)
Archmage Atlantis: Night al
--BELL--
Wol Euler: well, that was quite an interesting session.
Geoff Baily: yes, Imust go now night night
Wol Euler: goodnight agin, geoff :)
Wol Euler: I should go too, it's been a long day.
Wol Euler: take care, calvino, see you tomorow :)