2009.11.29 08:00 - guardian meeting - transitions in PaB

During our weekly guardian meeting, the following 17 guardians were present: Adams Rubble, arabella Ella, Calvino Rabeni, Eliza Madrigal, Eos Amaterasu, genesis Zhangsun, Lia Rikugun, Maxine Walden, Mickorod Renard, Pema Pera, Qt Core, Riddle Sideways, SophiaSharon Larnia, stevenaia Michinaga, Storm Nordwind, Vendy Walpole and Wol Euler. The comments are by Lia Rikugun.

I came in four minutes late and probably missed a little of greetings and discussion, sorry.

genesis Zhangsun: is that what we decided after that long discussion about greetings "etc"
Wol Euler: :)
Pema Pera: :)
Lia Rikugun: hello
Eliza Madrigal: new tag :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi lia :)
Riddle Sideways: sorry, gen I included you in first round
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Lia, Eliza, and etc :)
Riddle Sideways: you can call me etc. just don't call me late for dinner
Pema Pera: :)
Wol Euler: rimshot.
genesis Zhangsun: the crowd screams :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs

Maxine Walden: Perhaps there are some things from the last week which perhaps have not stirred screams from the crowd but wonderings from the guardian group...about the transitions
Maxine Walden: silence can mean so many things...
Maxine Walden: hi, Qt
Qt Core: hi all (shhh)
Pema Pera: I guess we are all collectively wondering, Maxine :-)
Pema Pera: well, perhaps I should start with the last three months
Maxine Walden: maybe that is a better time frame...
Pema Pera: After more than a year of PaB growing and evolving into something quite unique within SL
Pema Pera: we had our first five-day RL retreat, which was enormously successful as judged by the reactions of the 12 participants
Pema Pera: so much so that we decided to repeat it four times a year: we had one in Princeton a few weeks ago, and we'll have one in Malta in two months again
Pema Pera: a month after that, we started our Working Group, as an attempt to make the group even more egalitarian than it had already been
Pema Pera: and to off load the behind-the-scenes work that I had been doing, mostly in terms of coordinating, for the first year and a bit of PaB
Calvino Rabeni: TY, I read a bit off the wiki to get a feel for it.
Pema Pera: I guess the two main things it has taught me are:
Maxine Walden: seems so, Pema. Would there be anything you would care to mention to the group, Pema about experiences during this past week ?
Pema Pera: 1) how unique PaB is, in having no leader, no believe system, and no obligations for its members; how unusual that is, and in conection with that, what an enormous challenge it is to find a formless form to handle that
Pema Pera: 2) how much I still have to learn myself, in terms of integration; no matter how much I know, both in terms of glimpses here and there of meditative experiences and general intellectual understanding, I am learning more, day by day, to see so many of my own tendencies at what is sometimes called "spiritual materialism" -- focusing on goals, trying to gain, trying to protect . . . and I'm really grateful for these lessons
Pema Pera: well, I'll stop here :-)
Pema Pera: (Calvino, we have a group of six of us, Eos, Eliza, Gen, Maxine, Storm, and me, comprising this WG)
Pema Pera: it has been a very interesting learning experience for me, personally, as well as, I think, for all of us

Storm Nordwind: Pema, if you could relive the 20 months since Play as Being started, what would you do differently?
Pema Pera: hahaha, that's a tricky question -- you mean if I knew what I knew now?
Storm Nordwind: yes :)
Storm Nordwind: or no, if you prefer! :)
Pema Pera thinking
Eliza Madrigal: thank you Pema, again, for handling things so graciously. Obviously I've been learning quite a bit too, about blindspots and emotions... really listening... pausing before reacting...
Riddle Sideways: not to sound trite, but the expression "if you build it they will come" has been done here
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Not to interrupt but I must say...
Wol Euler: :)
Pema Pera: Thank you, Eliza and Riddle, and all for making this work!
Pema Pera: As for Storm's question: I guess there is no real answer, simply because everything is so completely woven into the fabric of everything else, PaB co-dependently emerging with the circumstances
Pema Pera: it really felt that the time was right for PaB to come into this world, and I was glad to be of help in letting it unfold
Pema Pera: the main things I can see that I could have done better is that I could have staid out of the way more
Maxine Walden: what do you mean, Pema, stay out of the way more?
Pema Pera: whenever something didn't go so well, at any point, it always could be traced back to trying to "do", to forgetting "wu-wei", "not-doing"
Pema Pera: wu-wei, in one word, Maxine
Maxine Walden: yes, understand
Pema Pera: so that's the shortest answer, Storm :-)

Maxine Walden: So wishing for PaB's success could nudge one toward 'doing' rather than letting be?
Storm Nordwind: Thank you Pema. I appreciate the candour - it's a tricky question!
Eos Amaterasu: wu wei / stay out of the way / is the way :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: wishing for Succes in itself is fine but trying to "help it along" is the root of all evil :-)
Wol Euler: :)
Pema Pera: religious wars are fought "trying to help God"
Eos Amaterasu: That's the question, as we sense what is seeking to grow, to form, how to stay with that, and stay in play mode as wel
Maxine Walden: In my experience, trust in letting be, staying out of the way can be difficult
Riddle Sideways: hind-sight is usually so clear, but am glad it does not work so good now
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps, Pema, you mean you had an overly formed idea of what success looked like, instead of letting it continually evolve?
Maxine Walden: when we are so invested, so wishing for something to succeed. We proabaly all know that place
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eos Amaterasu: how to care deeply... and lightly
Maxine Walden: lovely comment, Eox
Maxine Walden: Eos
Pema Pera: no, Storm, I had no overall idea, that part was okay, it was just that when I saw little problems appearing, it was sometimes hard to let go of the tendency to "help along",
Storm Nordwind nods
Mickorod Renard: I think maybe pab is in adolecence, rather than infancy,,
Pema Pera: rather than "caring lightly" -- indeed, Eos
Wol Euler nods. We encouraged you in that, I fear, by deferring all questions and problems toyour judgement
Maxine Walden: agree, Wol
arabella Ella: but I must admit it is thanks to Pema's involvement and encouragement that many of us are here today ... Pema made a huge difference for some of us
Wol Euler: absolutely :)
arabella Ella: he has taught us so much
arabella Ella: I cannot begin to think what PaB would be like today if Pema had been involved much less ...
arabella Ella: so generously
Maxine Walden: In a way, perhaps, allowing Pema to be the 'leader' and so even perhaps ever so slightly pressuring him toward being that authority rather than toward letting be
Storm Nordwind: Caring lightly... like tranquil abiding meditation... holding the soap neither too tightly nor too lightly as both with lose the object back into the bath-tub!

Pema Pera: thank you, Arabella, Wol, all . . . honestly, it should be me to thank you: all I did was looking for play mates, for buddies to explore with, seriously
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
arabella Ella: :)
Maxine Walden: so many levels of appreciation going on here at the same time, wonderful threads
Pema Pera: you see, my real motivation has been very self-centered, hopefully in a positive way: I just don't like the teacher-student traditional way of spiritual practice; instead I just love the scientific way of mentoring while collaborating in research, shoulder to shoulder. I didn't see any group like that, so I had no choice to creat one . . . . .
Pema Pera: *but to create one
stevenaia Michinaga: you cannot diminish the importance of a "cultivaor" when the field grows as a result of your efforts, Pema
arabella Ella: together with the importance ... and difficulty ... of sustaining the group until it achieves a relative amount of independence ...not a simple task
Pema Pera: well, it was me who was probably most surprised to see that the notion of the 9 sec would attract such a gentle and non-judgmental, yet still very much engaged crowd . . . .
stevenaia Michinaga: or in some instances simply adding fertilizer
Pema Pera closes his nose
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Maxine Walden: But maybe we all have had some lessons in this process, some surprises, some pains even...
stevenaia Michinaga: but in all cases, Maxine, a valuabe experience, certainly for me

genesis Zhangsun: so Pema would you say you are stepping down from your non leader leader role to some extent, that it might really be up to us as you said all along to raise ourselves, to explore for ourselves and come to our own conclusions?
Maxine Walden: undoubtedly, Steve
Pema Pera: sure, Gen, there is really only one thing that remains important for me, and that is the aspect of Being in Play as Being
Pema Pera: and that, too, I'm happy to follow in whatever way we all like to explore
Calvino Rabeni: Pema, you (we) are riding a wave, and helping to create it.
Pema Pera: yes, I feel that way, too, Calvino
Eos Amaterasu: there is a process set in motion, with time rhythms, real people fertilizer: very encouraging :-)
genesis Zhangsun: and the process of becoming fertilizer and then something new again might be painful
genesis Zhangsun: but perhaps the only way for something new to grow
Pema Pera: All in all, I'm very encouraged too, and I think we've already gone over the major hump, in our transition. The very fact that we can now talk about somewhat painful aspects, that were only tacit until recently, is a huge step forward
Maxine Walden: allowing for the new, realy always brings some pain or doubt, in my experience
Maxine Walden: nearly always
Wol Euler nods
Pema Pera: you see, that's the difference between teacher-student relationship, where the teacher is supposed to stay tough and strong, and the more egalitarian approach we have here, caring for each other, with nobody needing to take a "strong and tough" stance
Pema Pera: thanks, Eliza!
Pema Pera: I was so pleased when Eliza goofed :-)
Eos Amaterasu: heh heh
Wol Euler laughs
Eliza Madrigal shakes head and closes eyes
Eliza Madrigal: But thank you :)
Pema Pera: my pleasure :-)

Vendy Walpole: I'm grateful to all people in Pab for creating such environment where i can have lessons at many levels and in many categories, starting from overcoming my language obstacles and fears till the use the 9seconds practice in everyday life. There are other levels between that i won't mention here resepcting the time :)
Pema Pera: thanks so much for joining us, Vendy -- which reminds me, we really should have a mentor system for new guardians
Pema Pera: with Calvino and Eden and Benedizione on board now too
Pema Pera: just to introduce them and give them some intiial guidance
Vendy Walpole: Pema*
Vendy Walpole: thank you pema and all of you and yes that is a good idea
Wol Euler: I'm happy to offer mentoring at 1pm sessions if anyone cares to ask :)
Vendy Walpole: I do Wol
Vendy Walpole: ty
Vendy Walpole: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: or any of my sunday or wednesday 7:00 pm session
Riddle Sideways: I do Wol :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Vendy Walpole: 7pm = 4am in Europe
Wol Euler: well, questios about guardianing, don't ask me to define some abstruse practice.
Eos Amaterasu: "play as guarding as play as being"...
stevenaia Michinaga: when in doubt, seach wikipedia
stevenaia Michinaga: if you can;t sleep vendy :)

Vendy Walpole: I have a suggestion about retreats, since they are so valuable experience, could you all who attend them, after coming home, gather here and share your experiences with us at a session devoted to that?
Riddle Sideways: good idea
Eos Amaterasu: & speaking of retreats
arabella Ella: yes speaking of retreats ... smile ...
Eos Amaterasu: Malta is coming right up
Eos Amaterasu: Arabella is our gracious host
Vendy Walpole: (thought of next retreat- Malta)
arabella Ella: :)
arabella Ella: anyone interested ... only two months (actually less) to go now
arabella Ella: please feel free to ask me anything you wish when you see me on line or via email if you prefer
arabella Ella: it is a great opportunity
Eos Amaterasu: http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_Retreats/2010-01_Malta
arabella Ella: on a little island with lots of history ... and hopefully sunshine in winter too :)
arabella Ella: we really hope to see some of you here on this little island soon
Adams Rubble goes quietly with a bye everyone :)
arabella Ella: bye Adams
genesis Zhangsun: bye Adams
Vendy Walpole: Bye Adams
Mickorod Renard: I am trying to get released from my commitments to be able to join the retreat
Mickorod Renard: bye adams
arabella Ella: Oh ... Pema will be here of course ... as non leading / leader ... how did we describe his role?
Eliza Madrigal: I can't imagine a more soothing setting... ocean breezes... long pauses..
arabella Ella: and Eos too
Wol Euler: primus inter pares?
arabella Ella: :)
Wol Euler: just a suggestion.
arabella Ella: the retreat site is very close to an area with cliffs so we will be quite close to some lovely sea views (we call the Med a sea as opposed to an ocean)
Eliza Madrigal: :)Ah, yes
Eos Amaterasu: Will be interesting to meet the local environment in PaB
arabella Ella: yes ... and here most things have heaps of history ... its amazing how rich the island is in history and culture
Storm Nordwind: Please all remember that Page-Up will have the opposite effect next to the cliff top! :)
arabella Ella: he he Storm
Vendy Walpole: :))
Eos Amaterasu: Btw, please bring up suggestions/ideas for future retreats, over the next two years out....
arabella Ella: the cliffs also have lovely tiny handkerchief sized terraced fields as soft landings or walks along them
Eliza Madrigal: Thank you everyone... (Slips out quietly) Bye for now
arabella Ella: Malta is a very rocky island but there are 'pockets' of agriculture
arabella Ella: bye Eliza
Vendy Walpole: Bye Eliza
Mickorod Renard: bye Eliza
Vendy Walpole: You could visit Sicilia, it is very close and there are good connections
SophiaSharon Larnia: has to go also, bye everyone!
Mickorod Renard: bye Sophia
arabella Ella: bye Sophia S
Wol Euler: bye sophia
Vendy Walpole: Bye sophia
Wol Euler: ara, would it be realistically feasible to take a ferry across from Italy?
Eos Amaterasu: sounds like fun
Riddle Sideways: also has to go, bye everybody [leaves before metioning malta milk balls]
Mickorod Renard: car or foot passenger Wol?
arabella Ella: yes Wol there is a catamaran from sicily daily ... takes passengers and cars too
Maxine Walden: Have to go as well. Thanks all for the discussion
arabella Ella: some days it is from Pozallo, twice a week from Catania (Sat and Wed if I recall)
Mickorod Renard: bye Riddle
Vendy Walpole: Bye
Lia Rikugun: I am off too, bye evryone
stevenaia Michinaga: me too
Eos Amaterasu: Thanks all, bye!
Pema Pera: bye Lia etc!
Mickorod Renard: bye Eos